Army recruiter just called AGAIN for my son. He said the school district gave them my son's

information. Funny thing is that I've sent opt out letters to our school district every stinking school year.

I'm pissed off.

Funny how that word still makes people see red.

See? Here he is in the yearbook hanging out with the GSA people.

they'd be too easy to spot so no room for gays in the military.

Seriously. You want to get them to back off, let your son meet with them and tell them that he's not interested now and will not be interested at any time in the future.

as a result of their efforts, so they stop at nothing

We thought of the parents as annoyances and minor inconveniences. Unless we heard it from the potential recruit him/herself, we kept that person as a prospect.

I will be more of a "minor annoyance" if he persists in calling.

And no amount of screaming, threat-making, or gnashing of teeth on YOUR part will make them stop trying to recruit your son...until, that is, he informs them, in no uncertain terms, that he's not interested and they should stop calling.

are teaching them killing is ok and twisting their minds so they can kill other human beigns who had NOTHING to do with 911

If opt out letters were sent then there does seem to be a violation in this situation. It may be grounds for legal action.

That's what I did.

But, when I was eventually commissioned, my Dad (retired COL) was immensely proud and actually swore me in.

At some point, the kid is going to have to learn on his own two feet when dealing with recruiters. It's far better to approach this as a mentor to a recruit-aged kid than a raving, over-protective lunatic parent (not saying anybody in this thread falls into that category...)

If it were actually about defending..........well



Okay put it this way, it's almost all lies, those history lessons but if it were true about those lies that we were told in school then i would think it might be appropriate. Today though, i am quite sure there is never going to be person to person combat for the physical boundaries of the U.S. in my lifetime. I btw, went out and found the recruiter and their office. I had never once spoken to them before i decided to join, and that was the very same week i reached eighteen. My parents never questioned my decision to join but that piece of crap public high school did. I eventually got my high school diploma while in the military but never have found where it was so necessary for anything. I am just chalking it as more lies from people who had too much investment in the establishment

who is now going on his third month in a near-coma, whose very pregnant wife sits by his side every day, wishing he would wake up in time for the birth of their first child. Her wish for her first anniversary: that her huband's eyes would be open for a while, and that he wouldn't have a fever.

I still remember talking to his mother in the midst of his decision to join the Navy two years ago, in order to have a "better career". And learning later that of course the recruiters had lied and he would not be serving "in a Navy hospital or on a submarine".

Maybe 95 out of 100 soldiers are relatively unscathed and untraumatized, and even bettered, by their time in Iraq, although I do doubt the percentage is that high, given the nature of this occupation. But I'd be very reluctant to counsel a parent to stand back when their son or daughter is about to start a game of real-life Russian roulette.

The mother and the wife weren't asked to enlist, nor are they getting paid for trimming his nails, helping with breathing treatments and flexing his arms, monitoring his medications, or scrunching their own lives, hopes and dreams down into a package that fits in a hospital ward while they pray for a miracle.

The mother is proud of him, and she has a right to be -- especially as a medic.

Ultimately, the outcome depends to some extent on pure luck, of being on the wrong bridge at the wrong time.
Some parents who see it as keeping the "pushers" away from their teenage boys have good reason. They know it will be like watching a game of Russian roulette, to be played by a person who is quite often the person they have loved the most in all the world, a person in whom they have invested 2 decades of their lives and sacrificed for to an extent they never dreamed possible until they actually became parents. The recruiter's call can be the beginning of a "new career", or it can be the edge of an abyss.

the parent has every right to speak for them. And recruiters should get that through their thick skulls.

There will be times when recruiters "bump into" that potential recruit when mommy isn't within miles of that location.

Your attitude confirms every bad story I've heard about obnoxious recruiters.

shortfall in parenting that recruiters exploit.

It's very easy to identify a child who has an over-protective parent and it's very easy to exploit that fact when said parent is nowhere to be found.

Look, I'm not trying to be a dick (although after re-reading this thread, I can see where I came across as such...apologies), but the BEST WAY to get recruiters off your son's ass is to "arm" him with the tools necessary to get recruiters to realize that he's not interested.

The average recruiter is a damned magician in psychology, you've got to realize that. YOU'VE got to prepare your child to meet that pressure with intelligence and restraint.

He's got a disabled sister, he's a top student, he works. He shouldn't have to deal with assholes who have violated privacy laws, and who don't take no for an answer. Sorry, but when someone's violating the law, "mommy" has every right to step in.

I reeally don't want parenting advice from someone who feels they have every right to violate my role as a minor child's parent.

When your son leaves the protective confines of your household, that "pressure" increases immeasurably. Then what are you going to do?

You can take my advice for what it's worth, but I just wanted to let you know that simply screaming at recruiters, calling them names, and alleging violations of the law isn't going to do a single thing to get them to stop. The power to do that lies with your son.

Using belittling tactics against people and *bumping into* recruits -- that's why parents react so badly to seeing recruiters.

Your attitude is NOTHING to be proud of.

We sent letters to both the DoD and to our school district every year. Yes, recruiters SHOULD get that through their thick skulls.

They were barely into puberty and fucking recruiters started calling them! I can't even describe how angry I was. I had also been a peace activist for a long time and generally opposed war but my hubby is a veteran and I really had no objection to my kids joining the military. Then the obnoxious recruiters started calling them. It took some tenacity on my part, but I got those calls stopped. 14 is too young to make such a major life changing decision. Good grief!! Even the credit card companies didn't call when they were that young!!

These kids were NOT even in high school yet -- but they were there!

Because in No Child Left Behind, if a parent opts out, a school district or recruiter is violating federal privacy laws when that request is ignored. I am a teacher and if I found out you contacted a kid whose parents had opted out in my district, I would turn your ass in.

In all seriousness, where do you place the odds of that information, namely the opt-out info, making it from the parent -> school -> school board -> the DoD -> the Army Recruiting Command -> the Recruiting District -> the Recruiting Station -> the Recruiter

If you are aware of this opt out information being lost (perhaps conveniently?) then you are complicit in breaking privacy laws.

We can't even put kids work on a bulletin board if the parent requests it not be posted!

We also cannot:
post grades in a public place
take pictures of kids
talk to a reporter about a kid (even using only a first name)
email anyone (including our administrators) and call a kid by name (we have to use initials)

Now if we can't do any of those things without parent permission, do you honestly believe that we would hand over contact info to ANYONE once the parent has opted out?

I like my job and I need it. I take federal laws VERY seriously. You should too, especially if you are in the military.

I now enjoy a cushy desk job in Arlington, VA.

At no point in my recruiting activities have I ever broken the law.

you most certainly DID break the law. If you contacted ONE kid after the parent asked you not to you broke the law.

Let me clarify that I had no objection to either of my kids joining the military. I just wanted them to make that decision as AN ADULT. And 14 years old is NOT an adult. This still makes me so mad I can't see straight and it was 15 years ago. I even threatened to turn the recruiter in for child abuse. I called an attorney and he agreed it could be considered child abuse to harass a 14 year old. So yes, I had my ducks in a row and I was ready to do whatever I had to do to stop those phone calls.

That poster actually told me I should have my son meet with them. They break the law, and I'm supposed to have my MINOR son submit to their bullying.

and at some point, you think it would become customary to refer to me at least by my screen name when casting aspersions.

Here's the truth: your son is ALWAYS going to be a potential recruit. Recruiters will use all sorts of tactics to talk to him. The next time they talk to him will be when you are nowhere to be found.

Therefore, you've got to ask yourself, how well are YOU preparing your minor son to deal with it, on his own?

As you can tell, this just incenses me. These kids are TOO YOUNG to be harassed by a recruiter. And if you report this one, that should stop all of them in his office from pretending they don't have to follow the law.

I took the time to send the letter to the school every year. The school district failed to do what they were supposed to do. The recruiter shouldn't have his number. They've called FIVE TIMES now.

Why the FUCK should my son "meet with them." Believe me, he's not interested in joining the military. He's spent the past several months trying to convince one of his best friends not to enlist.

I contacted the recruiter and his supervisor when he wouldn't stop calling my house. I also told the school that no way did any recruiter have my permission to talk to my kids. (This was before NCLB so I couldn't opt out in writing). It took some doing, but I got those calls stopped.

So yes, I said so and they stopped.

Right.

:sarcasm:

:shrug:

is joining the Army.

If what you said is true, you should have little to worry about.

He told me he got it from the school district. I have copies of the letters I've sent every single year to both the DoD and to the school district to opt him out.

We have an unlisted home phone number. My son doesn't give that number out to any of his friends. They all call him on his cell phone.

My brother was the target of a recruiter who would not take no for an answer. The no came from my brother, directly to the recruiter. The recruiter would not stop calling the house, even after repeatedly being asked not to. It eventually took action by a lawyer (my cousin) to stop the harassment.

We persisted until the individual prospective recruit told us to stop. After a couple more inquiries if there were other people in his/her household who *would* be interested, we took the number off the call sheets.

I will be contacting the school district. My husband is an attorney, and he's already spoken to one of the recruiters. If they call again, I'll have him put it in writing.

His girlfriend about collapsed laughing.

When I was recruitment age, the Marines wanted me really, really bad. Unfortunately for the Marines, I didn't want them.

I even got Marine Corps recruitment letters after I'd joined the Army. And after I went to Basic. And while I was in job training. AND...after I'd reported to permanent party.

So I sent the Marines a letter with my new address:

PV2 Jim Mowreader, US Army
HHOC, 311th MI Battalion (CEWI)
101st Airborne Division (Air Assault)
Ft. Campbell, KY 42223

Most people who were in the military and who read this address would immediately think, "this potential Marine recruit is now a private in the Army, and so we shouldn't bother trying to recruit him into the Marines anymore. Not so. About six weeks later comes a letter: "Dear PV2 Mowreader, we would like to tell you about your future in the Marines."

My battalion commander, who was a really fine person, was in the mailroom when I got this letter. I showed it to him. He wrote the Marines a letter which ended the recruitment bullshit once and for all.

He's mine. You can't have him. Quit sending him this shit.
Jack McGuinness
LTC, MI
Commanding.

He stuffed his letter and the Marine Corps recruiting letter into an official 311th MI envelope and sent it to the Commandant of the Marine Corps, and the bullshit stopped.

I get hit up by recruiters every now and again. I love the look on their faces when I inform them that they're too late...I'm already a Major.

:shrug:

tell them you're coming down to see that the opt out letter was received. If they don't have it, tell you want one NOW!

hell him/her that its YOUR phone not your sons and don't call it again???

I would make it an extremely unpleasant visit for them.
:grr: :nuke:

:patriot:

:evilgrin:

That would be so weird as to necessitate a call to Homeland Security.

... to kill & be assholes - avoid confrentation & just ignore them! They are under much stress by missing their recruiting goals - you could just laugh at them?

America has turned against the Iraq War big time, in every way :)

Does OPT OUT mean anything to the locals in charge of school records and policies? Is there a lawyer around who would like to push that question HARD?

Edited to add: Is it possible recruiters ask other kids for friends' contact info then lie about where they got it?

Might be worth it to hire a couple 16 year-olds to go in, pretend to be interested and see if they get asked for friends' names/phone numbers. Might even be able to pay off in pizzas or something ;). Perhaps some local student who is SERIOUS about journalism might help with some field research. Would be interesting to find out if the recruiters are shakin kids down for more leads.

http://themmob.org/lmca

You have to opt out both with the Pentagon and the school. Spread the word to any and every parent you know.

Sounds like the school district still released his information despite having recieved my opt out letters.

?

parents have to jump through these hoops.

Ny heart is with you. My son is too young now but is rapidly approaching that age and I'll do everything in my power to keep them away from him.

Please keep me posted.

:hug:

The recruiter did tell me that he got the information from the school district.

Before I launched into a lawsuit with the school district I would make sure that I knew who was at fault for the harassment your child is receiving.

So until you are sure it was the school, I wouldn't blame them. I know my district takes opt out requests very seriously and I would imagine most other districts do as well.

And take your lawyer with you.

There are privacy concerns here. They have failed to protect yours, by giving out this information, especially after you explicitly told them you did not want this information given out.

I told him my son is away at college and besides he's an anarchist. No more calls.

Either way, I'd be calling the school and asking for confirmation your letter is on file. When they say yes, thank them and be sure to get the name of the person you're speaking with. Then tell him/her you just wanted to confirm it before you call your attorney. (Bet you get a call back from the school or district.)

recruiters from calling for my older son. One recruiter even cited no child left behind gave him permission to do it. I told him my son is in college and how can no child affect him now?

phone number too, just in case "they'd like to join together". I got the phone call. When he told me who he was, I told him that he probably wouldn't want my son. He asked why not. I told him that he couldn't see out of one eye and was quite near sighted in the other, and I doubted that he would ever be able to drive. He said you're right, and never called again. But, then again, we weren't at "war".

I was telling the truth, but I could have been lying.

zalinda

At my daughter's high school, the Air Force people came in and set up a rock wall for the PE classes to use. The kids were supposed to fill out a form with their name and address, etc.

My daughter doesn't want to go into the military ever and knows how her dad and I feel about it. She put down the contact info of a girl she doesn't like. I told her next time just write "opt out" and have the administration talk to me if anybody has a problem with it.

This is one way they do an end run around the opt out provision.

Obviously Bush wants them ALL dead.

Tell them your son was offered a college scholarship and he's accepting it. Marine Corps recruiters started calling me when I was 16 (graduated high school at 17) and wouldn't take no for an answer, but after they were told I was going to college on a scholarship they never called me again.


Edit: looks like JVS beat me to it--that's what I get for not reading the whole thread before posting, lol. I can confirm it works, though, if that helps. :)

Mining for Kids: Children Can't Opt Out of Pentagon Recruitment Database


By Kathryn Casa

Parents cannot remove their childrens names from a Pentagon database that includes highly personal information used to attract military recruits, the Vermont Guardian has learned.

The Pentagon has spent more than $70.5 million on market research, national advertising, website development, and management of the Joint Advertising Market Research and Studies (JAMRS) database a storehouse of questionable legality that includes the names and personal details of more than 30 million U.S. children and young people between the ages of 16 and 23.

The database is separate from information collected from schools that receive federal education money . . .

Parents must contact the Pentagon directly to ask that their childrens information not be released to recruiters, but the data is not removed from the JAMRS database, according to Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a Pentagon spokeswoman.

The department collects basic information on youth in response to a congressional mandate in 1982 that noted it is essential that the Secretary of Defense obtain and compile directory information pertaining to students enrolled in secondary schools throughout the United States to support recruiting for the all-volunteer force and avoid conscription, he wrote to the senators.

But according to the privacy group, BeNow, the direct marketing company chosen by the Pentagon to compile the data, is owned by the credit reporting company Equifax and does not have a privacy policy, nor has it troubled itself to enlist in a privacy seal program regarding the handling of information collected for this purpose.

The Pentagon proposes a wide range of blanket routine uses that allow an agency to disclose personal information to others without the individuals consent or knowledge, the groups wrote in their letter to Rumsfeld. The list of 14 DOD blanket routine uses include: disclosures to law-enforcement; state and local tax authorities; employment queries from other agencies; and disclosure of records to foreign authorities. Although individuals can opt out of recruitment solicitations, they cannot opt out of this enormous database.

In a separate statement, the Electronic Privacy Information Center said both the Privacy Act and the DODs own internal regulations require the agency to collect information directly from citizens when possible.

The main commercial vendors that sell students data, American Student List and Student Marketing Group, were both pursued recently by consumer protection authorities for setting up front groups that tricked students into revealing their personal information, according to the center.



Parents seeking to determine whether information about their children is contained in the JAMRS database system should address typewritten inquiries to:
The Department of Defense
c/o JAMRS, Direct Marketing Program Officer
Defense Human Resources Activity
4040 N. Fairfax Drive, Suite 200
Arlington, VA 22203-1613
Requests should contain the childs full name, date of birth, current address, and telephone number. Do not include a Social Security number.

To ask that your childs name be added to the suppression files of the database, send a typewritten request to:
Joint Advertising and Marketing Research
& Studies Office (JAMRS)
Attention: Opt Out
4040 North Fairfax Drive, Ste. 200
Arlington, VA 22203-1613
Include the childs full name, street address, date of birth, and telephone number. Do not include a Social Security number.


http://collect.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=90669&blogID=78790095&Mytoken=8A8E159B-B717-4AC2-8086CCB4D8E6BB0D298617671

I'm not typing it up & putting a stamp on it for them.

They should be directly confronted, including actions in conjunction with your state legislature.

I guarantee that will work!

I am cleaning out boxes of paperwork and found an opened letter to my son

The return address on the envelope only has a name and address-it is addressed in pen, not typed or printed

Imagine my surprise when I saw the sheet inside and it was a recruitment flyer for the marines

since I have been in a very pissy mood lately I decided to call the number and them proceeded to tell the person that the marines were COWARDS for not identifying themselves on the enveloped

yes, we did sign the opt out, in fact I made the school redesign back to its original it after they changed it to state that the kid was opting out of everything (yearbook, newspaper, scholarship, etc)



Also a few years ago I had to go to the high school to stop the recruiters from collecting name, addy, ss# from students that wanted to use their rock climbing wall-the info was requested on a "waiver" they were having minors fill out to be able to climb the rock wall


I think that Squatch (sp?) is right, that your son does need to learn how to avoid conversations w/recruiters and how to walk away or hang up as quickly as possible after telling them he is not interested, now, nor will he ever be interested in the future

maybe you can do a few role playing activities til he feels confidant enough to handle it on his own-remember key is to NOT engage in any conversation, but to exit as quickly as possible without divulging any personal info

good luck

http://www.thedailylight.com/articles/2007/07/12/midlothianmirror/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/let02-062707-flanagan.txt
Dear Editor,

I’ll tell ya what after I have written letter after letter to the Marines and the Marines just won’t give up. They called our house today wanting to talk to our boy about joining the Marines.

These people and this country are definitely super hard up to want to enlist special ed kids.

Is this the best George Bush can do? A special ed kid , a kid that has been exempt from taking the TAKs tests since the forth grade, a kid still exempt from the test today. A kid on SSI because he can’t work, can’t drive, can’t read very well, well to tell the truth hardly at all. Do they want some one in the Marines that can’t read a TV dinner. Are these people fruit cakes? It would appear!!!!!

I let this Marine talk to our boy and he still told him to come to the Marine table when school starts and take a test to see if he can join. I told the recruiter today that our boy has disabilities and could not join. Didn’t stop him from asking our boy to come to the table at school when he goes back and check it out.

These people are screwed up.


Also two years ago I sent a signed letter to the school and administration building asking them not to give our boys name to any military but I guess they did not honor that letter.

So much for school honor.

Is there any at all?


Also why should we send people to Iraq to a civil war, I predict that this war will go on for years and thousands and thousands will die for nothing in my book. Die for George Bush wanting to get revenge for his dad, oil, control of Iraq, Neo Cons wanting to take out Sadam, and little George wanting to out do dad.

Well George you failed.

I told my husband they called and he again informed me they would take our boy even with all his disabilities. He said they would help him sign the paper if needed. That’s what Wild Bill says.

Ask him yourself.

A young Oregon man with autism was also the target of a recruiter:

Diagnosed with autism at age 3, Jared is polite but won't talk to people unless they address him first. It's hard for him to make friends. He lives in his own private world.

Jared didn't know there was a war raging in Iraq until his parents told him last fall -- shortly after a military recruiter stopped him outside a Southeast Portland strip mall and complimented him on his black Converse All Stars.

"When Jared first started talking about joining the Army, I thought, 'Well, that isn't going to happen,' " said Paul Guinther, Jared's father. "I told my wife not to worry about it. They're not going to take anybody in the service who's autistic."

But they did. Last month, Jared came home with papers showing that he not only had enlisted, but also had signed up for the Army's most dangerous job: cavalry scout. He is scheduled to leave for basic training Aug. 16.

http://schoolsmatter.blogspot.com/2006/05/nclb-and-military-recruitment-of.html

And if you have dated copies of the opt-out letters send them, too.

Let the school board answer to this PUBLICLY.

sue the school system for releasing his name.

Good luck. That poster who's the ex-recruiter is way off base in telling you to have your teenager handle this by himself. His dismissive put-downs of parents and "mommies" tells me a lot about his attitude toward parenthood and families - and none of it's good.

Wouldn't it be just great if all teens could fend off the smooth-talking, blood-sucking recruiters?!?! But obviously many of them can't. They believe all the lies and false promises, and end up enlisted. Why expose your kid to the lethal danger of being recruited for Iraq, when you are able to protect him in any way, shape or form? My kids are now in their 40's, and extremely independent and capable - but when they were teens & even their early 20's they occasionally got suckered in by glib, smooth talking jerks. One of them signed up for Army ROTC her freshman year, without ever discussing it with me -and she didn't even get a monthly stipend or help with her tuition - they kept promising her she'd get it the "next" semester. She ended up in the Reserves. Thank god she didn't get sent to Iraq I - but it was a close thing.

This is damn serious, not like a newly adult kid signing up to buy Encyclopedia Britannica from a door-to-door salesman (my personal screw-up at age 21), or buying a lemon of a car. Those are mistakes kids learn from. Enlisting in the military/giving a recruiter access to your teen, under Bush, is like playing Russian roulette with only one empty chamber in the gun.

contacting the military and the school district (if they provided my son's information to the military) on our behalf. She has sent a release for me to sign, and has also requested that I send her copies of my opt out letters.

Surprise, surprise, they get a lot of complaints about military recruiters.

all the ones I heard from were rather pathetic, really. I'm sure your son will think the same so long as he has his priorities straight. Maybe you should simply give him some reasons as to why now isn't such a great time to be joining the military.

1. Write a letter explaining this, and requesting that school and district admins do their jobs. Ask for a meeting to discuss the changes necessary to honor the wishes of those families to "opt out." Send it to the principal, the superintendent, and every school board member.

2. Quit voting for people who make excuses for NCLB, who want to "fix" it rather than replace it.

if ever there were a story of someone's life plans being derailed by thinking today's military is an avenue to anything but death and destruction...



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1324202