Fox Guest Smokes On-Air, Says Taxing Tobacco To Fund Children’s Health Is Like Racial Discrimination

This Saturday, Fox News’s Cashin’ In did a segment asking whether a bipartisan Senate plan to raise taxes on tobacco products to fund an expansion of the successful Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) is “moral.”

Fox News contributor Jonathan Hoenig called the proposal “discrimination,” analogizing it to “all blacks” or “all Christians” having “to pay a surcharge for kids health care.” He also argued that smoking “harms nobody but the smoker,” proceeding to light up a cigarette on-air to prove his point.

Transcript:

KEENAN: A new push in the Senate to raise taxes on tobacco to pay for health care programs for kids. Well is that a moral thing to do? Let’s get the stock smarts. Our cash it in crew this week, we have the boys on remote: Wayne Rogers, Jonathan Hoenig and Jonas Max Ferris. And joining me here in the studio, Meredith Whitney and Lee Gallagher. Dagen will be back next week. Welcome everybody. Okay Jonathan, are you willing to pay more for a pack of cigarettes so a six year old can have health care? Please say yes.

HOENIG: I, I, am not Terry. In fact, you know, smoking is a legal activity, in fact

KEENAN: Jonathan!

HOENIG: A lot of people actually find it to be a very pleasurable activity and it harms nobody but the smoker, and what’s immoral is to make anybody pay for kids healthcare except for their parents. This is just another example of the nanny state run horribly amuck.

KEENAN: Wayne?

HOENIG: Lucky Strike means good tobacco.

FERRIS: Jonathan, smokers hurt other people. You say it like it’s just themselves, they have the right to smoke. They don’t have the right to raise my health insurance bill because that’s what they’re doing right now. When you go work for a company, that company doesn’t pay a higher health insurance bill because you smoke, that cost is burdened by the nonsmokers. It’s pure communism — you should hate it.

KEENAN: And you know Jonathan, what about second-hand smoke, for all those people in the studio out there? Are you allowed to smoke inside the building?

HOENIG: I think our camera man’s actually smoking too. Terry, the fact is is that smokers have a right to smoke, and if you’re in a bar and somebody is smoking and you don’t like it, leave.

KEENAN: You don’t have a right in New York City. You can’t smoke in a bar here.

HOENIG: People don’t have the right to have frois grais anymore. That doesn’t mean that that’s a moral right either . This would be the same Terry if you said, well, all blacks have to pay a surcharge to pay for kids health care or all Christians. This is discrimination on its face.

KEENAN: Well, Meredith, most people would agree with Jonathan say that you have a choice to smoke or not to smoke.

WHITNEY: I think that everyone would disagree with Jonathan on his last comments.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/16/smoking-schip/

I have to pay for this stinking war, and he bitches about paying for children's health care? What's wrong with this picture? I suggest he smoke a lot more so we can be rid of him sooner.

program. I've read estimates that the new tax on cigarettes will raise between 7-10 billion over the next five years per year. I've also read that the program services approx. 7 million children and about 700,000 indigent adults. Do the numbers. This looks like a LOT of health care for basically an age group that probably isn't the biggest user of it to begin with. Please tell me the excess isn't administrative surplus. What am I missing here? Please do not take this as an anti-kid healthcare reply......I think we all should have healthcare.

Lucky strike good tobacco :puke:

Blowing through the curtains in your room
Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your teeth
You're an idiot, babe
It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/idiot.html

80% of which is taxes. I think there are a hell of a lot of other activities which could stand to be taxed. and other people.
In addition, my stepfather is an oncologist, one of the first researchers to begin dna research for cancer cures in the world, and it is ABSOLUTELY untrue that second hand smoke kills other people. To get sick from secondhand smoke, you would have to be locked into a closet with no doors for months smoking nonstop. It simply is not true. Unless you are a person who already has asthma or respiratory illness, or a tiny baby, it cannot happen. I know you will all send me hatemail, but (smokers) are sick and tired of the way nonsmokers want to tax us to death and isolate us. ENOUGH! go tax the rich. tax all the churches who illegally practice politics. Take back the billions halliburton stole.

How about we levy an extra tax on everyone who eats french fries? How would you feel about that? or people who drink vodka? how about people with red cars?

I wish I could recommend individual posts because yours sure would get one.

I have said for YEARS, ever since my non-smoking friend died of lung cancer at 28, that we blame far too many illnesses on smoking and haven't done enough research into our DNA to determine why some people who smoke for years never get cancer and others who've never smoked do. I'm willing to bet that smoking may trigger something in the DNA, but if you don't have the "cancer gene," smoking might give you emphysema, but not cancer.

I'm not sure that second-hand smoke is great for anyone and I make hubby smoke outside (we have a great deck out back and a nice covered porch on the side - it's pleasant to go out, really) since we have two small children, but I don't think being exposed to it for an hour out eating is going to be the death of ANYONE. Pollution is far worse outside than a smoker across a banquet room.

And, if anyone cares, OBESITY has replaced SMOKING as the No. 1 cause of early death in this country.

Let's tax people who eat fatty foods or people who drive gas guzzlers. They do far more damage to our health care system and air quality than a smoker.

However, we will TOTALLY disagree about second hand smoke.

The old saying goes, "where my rights begin, yours end" could not make any more sense than with me being forced to suck down your hubby's second hand smoke. I have had to work at factory's that laughed at my complaints. It is the heighth of intolerance.

Twinkies, gas guzzlers and obesity do not FORCE me to have to breathe bad air against my will. If you cannot understand the difference, then I am at a loss to explain it to you or anyone else.

Smoking SUCKS ASS and second hand smoke is in NO WAY helpful to anyone's health. If you feel otherwise, then you are deceived by your husband's choice of a slow and willful suicide as opposed to a gunshot wound to the head.

gas guzzlers and other vehicles DO force you to breathe "bad" air against your will, so why don't we tax the crap out of those who buy gas-inefficient vehicles?

Cigarette taxes are already through the roof. Politicians take the chicken shit way by taxing cigarettes and then say they are against tax increases. It plays out in all the states.

Yes - let's target some other sins that have a broader base. Junk food might be a good place to start.

easier. :shrug:

Where'd you get that?!

:)

They keep on blaming everything on a cigarette, but I have known people who died from lung cancer who didn't smoke nor lived with anyone who did. My aunt just turned 80 today and she still smokes and seems to be in a great health and very active, too. I feel more sick from eating wrong food, overeating, too, but I am working on it. My brother passed away at age of 51 a year ago from drowning in ocean of vodka. :(

There are so many factors that cause illness. NOT just smokers.

it's the same damn thing.. they are targeting a group of people to tax to pay for this project. Non smokers won't be affected by it at all.

It would be the same as targeting gays, women, blacks or any other group and taxing only them to pay for a new service.

This is as stupid as the ones who think that I, as an SUV owner, should be taxed higher because of what I drive, just because they 'don't like' SUV's...

It's discrimination, pure and simple...

I say that as a former smoker.

I choose to smoke. I also choose to pay for insurance for my kids. Does that mean I should have to pay for the insurance for someone else's kids because they are too lazy to work, or was never motivated enough in life to do more than what they do, learn a better career so THEY can choose to pay for their own damned insurance??

Too many people feel entitled to something they've never worked for. You want something, .... work for it, don't expect me or anyone else to provide it for you.

I feel my point is clear.

I choose to smoke. I also choose to pay for insurance for my kids. Does that mean I should have to pay for the insurance for someone else's kids because they are too lazy to work, or was never motivated enough in life to do more than what they do, learn a better career so THEY can choose to pay for their own damned insurance??

Too many people feel entitled to something they've never worked for. You want something, .... work for it, don't expect me or anyone else to provide it for you.

So we should put children to work for their health care? Are you on the right discussion board? I believe every child in this country should have health care, regardless of who their parents are.

but I do have an issue with just one group of people, smokers, having to foot the bill.

I don't see any way at all where you could have arrived at the point where you think I advocate making kids pay for their own healthcare, but then again, from previous debates with you I have learned that you're good at twisting logic to fit your own desired ends.

Are *you* on the right discussion board??

Does that mean I should have to pay for the insurance for someone else's kids because they are too lazy to work,

How dare you, really. To suggest that everyone in a health care crisis is "too lazy to work" is beyond words.

And yeah, I'm at the right discussion board, I don't imply that the poor are "lazy."

in your previous post you said I advocated making children work for their own health care.

Get your story and your feigned outrage straight, then get back to me, ok?

Perhaps we can put the kids to work in factories again?

I'll ask you again, please show me where I said kids should work for their own health care. Quit jumping around, trying to twist words to fit your agenda.

As a parent, it's MY responsibility to take care of MY CHILD'S needs, as it should be for everyone. I worked hard to learn my trade and become a master of it. I also learned several other trades to have something to fall back on in case my chosen trade slowed down, which does happen at times. *That's* what I'm talking about when I say "too lazy"... some folks are complacent to do just enough to get by in life on, and feel that the government 'owes' them something just because they haven't put forth an effort to better themselves and do the best they can for their own family.

I have no problem with state sponsored health care, but it is too easy to abuse the system as it is. Did you even read this bill, or at least the overview of it? Several Senators argued that it would be too easy to abuse, and would encourage people to drop their "paid for" health insurance to join this program. This would just increase the tax burden needed to pay for the program. Why should it only be smokers who have to foot this program?

What you said is on the record. It wasn't clear if you were calling parents or children lazy, but either way, it's bullshit.

Where did I mention anything about out of work parents?? Am I writing in a language you don't understand or what? Do I need to use smaller words??

'Out of work' parents have obviously worked and paid in to the system. Doesn't everyone get some kind of medicaid or medicare tax taken from their check?

I know a family that has raised 3 generations on welfare, food stamps and state sponsored health care and have never hit a lick or done an honest days work in their lives, although they are perfectly capable of doing so. I sheepishly admit that perhaps I was a little broad brushed in my original statement.

I'll tell you again, I am all for health care for everyone. I hope to see FREE health care for every person in the United States before I die. I just don't want to see ONE group of citizens funding that program though. How many Americans are willing to pay more out every week from their paycheck though, to achieve this goal? I would glady do it myself, but to single me out, as a smoker, and hit me for more at the register is just the wrong way to go about it.

Night.

Ya know something... sometimes we agree on an issue and sometimes we don't, but when we don't, I can always rely on you to give me a good debate about it, without things turning real ugly. Might get a little heated, but that can't be avoided sometimes....

You have a way of making me look inside myself at times too. I forget that this board is pretty much anonymous, and that we all don't know each other personally and know each others true nature. Tone, inflection and emotion don't play out well in black & white print, do they?

Thanks for a good talk here mzmolly, and sweet dreams.

PEACE!

I'm glad things ended on a 'good' note.

I learn about myself here as well. And, I admit, I don't always like what I see. But, the key is we learn right?

Have a nice night and PEACE to you as well.

To imply that they are lazy for being in such a situation is ludicrous.

cover those medical bills. It shouldn't even be an issue for them. They should be provided all the health care benefits they need, and it shouldn't cost them a dime, except for a fair tax, taken from EVERYONE'S paycheck, NOT by taxing ME, as a smoker, for something I choose to do.

Free health care isn't really 'free', it comes with a price, and that price should be everyone contributing their fair share to it, based on a percentage of their income, whether they make minimum wage or top CEO pay. It SHOULD NOT be funded by ONE targeted group of people. To claim otherwise is simply ridiculous.

however, i don't think it can be compared to racism, and I honestly don't like your choice of words describing families who can't afford health care in your previous posts. Couldn't just keep quiet :hi:

suffers because of it.. I'm trying to work on that.

:hi:

Like, say, an office building or a movie theater.

Do you think smoking should be permitted in these places?

What's even funnier.. I own a restaurant and I'm a smoker, but I CANNOT STAND the smell of smoke while I'm trying to eat. It just gags me. At least show the same courtesy as I do to step away from the table and light up if someone is still eating.

Smoking in theaters.. I can understand the ban, believe me. I really hate people that would put a cigarette out on the floor too, smashing it underfoot. Would they do this in their own house? Hell, I don't even flip butts out my window, or if I'm out at a park or somewhere, I knock the fire off the cigarette then stick the butt in my pocket until I get home or to a trash can.

I don't think they should ban smoking at OUTDOOR concerts or ballgames though.

I have no problem with people smoking outdoors.

It's what I did for 5 years.

My problem is with people who feel like everyone else should be forced to inhale their smoke.

I have no problem with smoking indoors, as long as there is a ventilation system that keeps the smoking and non-smoking rooms separate.

the issue, hoping people will see it, but I get taken the wrong way a lot. I do not and will not apologize for it either though.

If someone can't look deeply into both sides of an issue, and at least think it all the way through, I have no use for them myself. They remind me of the sheeple who just graze along with their head in the grass, never looking up. We have them on our side of the fence too.

and get people thinking. :applause:

Search for "outsourcing." Search for "H1B." Search for "guest worker" or "illegal immigrant."

Read this article. http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/102/open_snapper.html

And this one: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

There are WAY too many people in this country who "learned better careers" that got shipped to India or China to make Wall Street, or Wal-Mart, happy.

A LOT of those people were buying health insurance for their kids. Now they've got to choose between buying them health insurance and buying them food. Hell of a choice.

it's actually rather brilliant. smokers impose a high cost on our health care system so as long as they choose to smoke, they should pay a premium for it.

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Wow, that's a helpful little bit of misinformation.

At the end of 2004 there were between 36 and 44 million people living with HIV, of whom 25 million were in sub-Saharan Africa. Global estimates for new HIV infection in 2004 were 4.3-6.4 million. The sub-Saharan African population is almost entirely heterosexual.

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:hi:

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i saw your other post griping about having to pay for other people's health care. you do realize that the name of this website is democraticunderground, right?

decatur

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our healthcare system?? How would OUR taxes affact them? Stay focused, we're talking about healthcare here in our Country.

Nice try at a strawman, though... NOT

Back up and try again pal, this was too transparent

"Stay focused", "strawman", "this was transparent" . . .can you be a little more obnoxious?

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Ooh you talk so rough and tough! You're a BIG boy! A big BIG boy!! Come on! Come on, more, MORE big boy!

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You could have easily said "you're right, I didn't need to bring gays and AIDS into my little tobacco argument, my apologies", but you're not man or mannered enough to do that.

Ciao, we will not be running into each other here again.

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a spell check.

There is a note regarding civility that apparently you've overlooked?

3. Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.

In fact, I'm thinking you could use a refresher in general?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

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who eats fried chicken, and all bad drivers. they cause accidents so they should pay for children's health care. Don't forget people with any gentic probelm who choose to have children, and anyone who stays up late at night, they should pay more too...

a strain on the healthcare system too.
and women under 50 should definitely pay an extra tax. After menopause you only need to see a gynecologist every 2 years, so the younger ones should definitely have a special health tax....

That won't drive up health care costs at all. :eyes:

BTW, I used to smoke. But I had the courtesy and common sense to take my habit OUTSIDE, where it belongs.

on the poor. Most of the people I see smoking, well lets just say they do not seem very well educated.

:rofl:

If they keep taxing them to the point that no one can afford them (they'll just buy them online or on the black market), then where is the funding for this kid's health program going to come from?

Every time a state raises taxes on beer or cigarettes or wine, a lot of people give it up.

We should make kids health a priority paid for in our regular tax dollars.

why would any government make a plant illegal

but if I was good I would be bountiful with my harvests to be able to share,
maybe that is part of the question.

"Smoking prevalence was higher among adults living below the poverty level (32.3 percent) than those living at or above the poverty level (23.5 percent)".

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it.

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