Dog-Fighting and the Neutering of Black Moral Outrage

I was actually composing this post as a reply to an OP by Catwoman about a comment someone made about Hip-Hop being responsible for the creation of dog-fighting. I decided to post it as an OP as I composed my thoughts

I took particular interest in this case for several reasons: First there was the immediate parallel I saw with the Imus case. It was only a matter of time before we would start to hear comments like these and I knew the minute it happened we would have to confront the fact that the pitch of any moral outrage we would have would be severely undercut by the fact that a sub-culture within the Black community has perpetuated a very offensive thing and there really was no real effort to confront it within our own community.

Dog-fighting is celebrated among some elements of the Black community. And I probably know that for a fact more clearly than probably anyone on this thread. (I'll explain why in a minute.) Dog-fighting is a little different; most people feel it's wrong and cruel, unlike the use of the word "nigger" where a lot of people tried to posit the argument that it was ok to use in certain situations by certain people. Acceptance at dogs tearing themselves apart is justified only by the people who enjoy such activities.

And the almost near universal support that we are showing for Vick without little discussion about the level of cruelty is disturbing. From the comments I have heard, it sounds like a lot of us are excusing his behavior because he's Black. I've heard us minimize the issue of animal cruelty. I was listening to a black sports show yesterday and they were discussing this issue. They were supportive of Vick and one of the hosts said something very interesting. He was talking about the protests that will inevitably happen and he kept referencing PETA. It was PETA this and PETA that. You know what it sounded like: The way conservatives use the word liberal or how some commentator reference Jackson and Sharpton. It was as if this was a big deal because of outside agitators. Boy: talk about irony.

So people from outside our community are looking at our almost lockstep support for Mike Vick. For some people, it will further reinforce the prejudices they already had. And some people, progressives included, are going to look at that and their own personal experiences and say you know THOSE people need to address some issues. I think that is the true crime here: A $130 million, gifted Black Athlete is engaging in some of the most anti-social behavior that someone can do. An anti-social behavior that is mostly enjoyed by people who are the very embodiment of the stereotypes that are thrown at us: Gangbangers, thugs and irresponsible people.

Dog fighting is on the rise within our community. There have been some very coherent posts from animal law enforcement people saying pretty much the same thing. Yes, it is prevalent in other communities. No it wasn't started by our community. But it is there and has a very active role in a small but very visible segment of our community. And quite frankly, I don't know if we care.

I am going through a period where I'm having a very strained relationship from my son. There are several elements to our differences, most of which have nothing to do with this topic. But one does: My son raises pit bulls.

According to him, he and his wife are just breeders. I hadn't broached the subject with him much because when I first found out we were working on repairing our relationship. But 2 things happened: He gained custody of my grand-daughter. And then he paid me a visit. The dogs came up. He showed me some pictures and I was pissed. Dogs swinging on ropes around like a helicopter. Looked like they were playing but who knows. Then he told me something that floored me: He showed me a picture of a dog and he said it it was killed by another dog. He said the dog that did the killing just didn't like the other dog. Keep in mind my 5 year old grand-daughter and 2 other children live in that home. And he said it as matter of factly as if it had rained that day.

So I just came out and asked him and his wife if they were raising these dogs for the purpose of fighting. My wife and I have 3 dogs and they are our kids. We don't have any together. So they became our kids. My wife even took a year off from work to be with the first one after I talked her into it 7 years ago.

Do you know what the answer was: we don't KNOWINGLY sell our dogs to people who fight them. And the way she said KNOWINGLY told me all I wanted to know.

I think they fucking thought I was raised yesterday.

That did it for me. So I'm sitting here today about to do something that a father wishes he doesn't have to do. My grand-daughters mother has petitioned the court for physical custody and has asked me to write a letter saying she would be a suitable mother. And I'm going to write it. I was on the fence about it. But the dogs were the last straw. Not only because of the potential for physical harm to my GD but also because I deeply feel that while they aren't fighting dogs, I believe they are selling them to people who do. And as a dog lover, I can't abide by that.

So there will be people who will take this whole situation to say that hip-hoppers and the whole of the Black community are nothing but a bunch of savages. And we can meet those racist statements with outrage. But we need to understand that by allowing these activities to exist within our communities without confronting them, then we seriously compromise our ability to speak truth to power.

allowed to play one more gamein the NFL before he gets the boot, and I hope that during that game, he is terribly maimed, paralyzed and difigured,or killed by another player during that game. That I would find entertaining, and worth the price of admission.

who just happens to be black.

I don't know what thread you're reading :)

If you listen to any Black media, there has been an overwhelming amount of support from both commentators and callers for Mike Vick

I never said that was the case her at DU

Most people who called in did not support Vick.

Everyone I know say Vick is an idiot.

:hi:

Football fans. I haven't polled my family on what their friends think, but it wouldn't shock me to hear them give Vick the benefit of the doubt. Fallen heroes is a hard thing for anybody. I think this is called the denial stage. The NFL just decided not to suspend him. It's a superstar thing, not a race thing.

But there is a racial component to some of the justifications I've seen from people supporting Vick.

It's one thing to say the man hasn't been convicted of anything, so I'm going to support unti facts prove otherwise. It's quite another to say this is nothing but a setup of a brother because he's black. And quie frankly, I've heard a lot of the latter

this activity. people who do this activity have no manhood. may they all burn in hell. Thank you for this post. it was eye opening and I wish only hope and peace for you and your family. you are my hero. you are stepping in and righting injustice and taking a consequence most wouldn't do. that makes you my hero.

I think it's the way you started the post: "I was actually composing this post as a reply to an OP by Catwoman ...."

Like Blue Bear, I thought, "not me!"

About the only thing I can support is that he gets his day in court since this is America, after all. Then the judge should throw the book at him, the NFL should fire his ass, he should lose all endorsement income (yay Nike who pulled the Vicks shoe line) and he should be treated like he treated those dogs.

It is sick.

"So there will be people who will take this whole situation to say that hip-hoppers and the whole of the Black community are nothing but a bunch of savages"

Colin Cowherd did a search on songs glorifying dog fighting and tere were only 6 songs, all hip-hop. Kinda food for thought isn't it?

That's part of my point

"So there will be people who will take this whole situation to say that hip-hoppers and the whole of the Black community are nothing but a bunch of savages"

Which is not to say the glorification of dog fighting is acceptable in those six songs ...

Good luck to your granddaughter's mother. I hope for her sake that she gets custody.

You might also want to contact your local pit bull rescue group.

dg

I always try to word my posts somewhat coherently. It seems I've failed pretty miserably on this one.

I'm not saying that people here at DU are supporting Vick, I'm saying that the Black community at large seems to be supporting him. And aside from the usual "inncocent before proven guilty" rationale: It alls seems to break down to some variation of the "White man is out to get a rich Black guy".


Meanwhile, dog-fighting is a problem within certain sectors of our community and I feel that we just stick our heads in the sand.

Hope that clears it up.

I'll give the rescue some thought.

Are you black? Because believe me, that post could have been written by any white family in the country. I can also imagine a host of young white men defending Vick because he was a hero to them. I don't think this is a racial issue at all.

I've known lots of parents who have had to make the difficult decision about supporting the ex for custody too, so don't feel bad about that. The kids always come first.

That's why this hits a note for me.

There are plenty of white and rural people in North Carolina involved in dog fighting. It's a big business. Until recently, I didn't even know that it had also become an urban problem. It's a problem all over, among all groups.

It is foolish to say that it is restricted to black communities.

But it is also foolish not to recognize its specific prevalence in black communities, particular subcultural affinities with it. That's foolish too.

Kicked and recommended. Really a dilemma you have there. By the way, everybody I've ever known who's owned a pit bull does the helicopter thing. It's more a question of showing off the jaw than fighting, though the two are obviously connected.

Yeah it did look like they were playing. But that combined with the other little things made me concerned. For all I know, they really could be rasing pits and selling them to repsonsible owners. I'm 900 miles away so I get pieces of the picture

I've seen a dog fight. Didn't wanna be there...we were there on other - ahem - business. This was late-80's, in East Elmhurst, Queens. I couldn't even look. Went outside and had a cigarette. They were like, ah-ite, white boy...

LOL

Wink.Wink

We are jonsing to get back home. Been so busy though

I'm a Mets guy, but dang would I love to see the Yanks overcome a 14.5 deficit to beat the Bosox. Oh, that would be grand. Keeping my fingers crossed for an August-September collapse up Boston way, as per tradition. Seven games now...tick tock...:-)

since I moved to GA.

But it would be 1976 all over again

A book called "Fist, Stick, Knife, Gun" wherein the author talks about how firearms manufacturers had distributed memos in the 80's saying that they'd 'exhausted their demographic' of older,rural white males to sell to, and now were going to move into the demographic of urban young black males, and exploit that demographic to increase sales. He had the memos, it was all there in black and white. And associating dog fighting with rap may give it a marketable face. That industry is not legit like firearms manufacturers. But making African Americans the "face" of dog-fighting is disingenuous since in America it began as a white sport, and remained one for hundreds of years, while African Americans were enslaved and not treated much better in some cases than fighting dogs.

Many people see "hip hop" and think - wow, what is with the "gangsta" persona. People who know black cultural history recognize it as a trope that goes back to slavery - the Bad Man, the Bad Muthafucka, long before people started signifyin' over cuts. The same is true of dog fighting. African American rural culture may have learned it from white rural culture, but it has a long history there as well. It wasn't invented in black culture in the last 30 years, after all, anymore than the "gangsta" that white folks imagine is some new thing.

that is what I disagree with. I agree with you it wasn't invented in black culture, at least not in America. I have no idea what country/continent (to the extent that humans became involved and began to seek profit from it) it originated in, but it it is an activity that crosses cultural and economic boundaries world-wide.

There are just as many whites into dogfighting as are African-Americans.These tactics take the spotlight off them.

and several hundred years previous.

Bull baiting, badger baiting, bear baiting, dogs fighting dogs, dogs set on people (mainly slaves and prisoners...of ALL races). For anyone to say that this is 'part of rural black culture' ignores the history of blood sports.

In fact, it's very difficult to find anything even analagous in African tribal culture.

It's clearly been part of rural black culture for far longer than hip hop's been around.

Note that I never said it ORIGINATED there, so your objection is basically irrelevant.

rural black culture. I thought it needed saying that it does not.

:hi:

Do you feel that within this "sub-culture" there is also violence directed toward children by their parents? I mean, are these kids getting beaten by their parents or others as they grow up. Do you have sufficient access to comment on this? What is your perception?

But I'm no expert. I don't know if a violence thing.

There was an interesting interview with someone who was on NPR the other day. He was a person who investigated these fighting rings.
He said a lot of the attraction was that the people involved felt like they belonged to something. They often came from backgrounds where they didn't have many options in life.

He mentioned the case of a 15 year in west virgina somewhere he was an accomplished amatuer vet. He would treat wounded dogs etc. He was good and he liked the respect he got.

Don't know if that's the case with urban youth though. Maybe someone else can chime in.

I can see it must be mix of influences so to speak. I happen to believe that people are inherently good, and it is difficult for me to see someone engaging in this extreme of violence unless they were also victims of abuse.

that a majority of these people are just degenerates

But we still have not addressed causation. Perhaps they were born as evil babies? Hitler was a degenerate who, it is reported, was beaten to unconsciousness nearly every day by his father. Had he not experienced this violence as a child, who is to say how events might have occurred? Again, thanks for your response.

how many times do I have to beg???

:)

great post :thumbsup:

legalize polygamy in Georgia.

But we both know George Bush will morph into a brillant progressive before that happens.

:rofl:

What's you take been on the response from our community?

102.3 - mostly talk in the mornings and afternoons.

People are pissed and appalled at Vick.

My wife listens to that station I don't. I usually catch the shows on the syndication one network. Ballantine, Sharpton. and others. Most were either supportive or very muted in their criticism. I also listen to several mainstream sports talk shows and the Black callers were the same.

Boy we needed rain but it can go away now

102.5 - http://www.classicsoul1025.com/showdj.asp?DJID=24395

V103 is for youngsters -- I can't stand listening to that crap :)

I'd like to read your take on all of this...:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1385637

:hi:

We adopted him from the shelter. They told us that they have more pit bulls and pit-bull mixes than any other kind. Why would that be?
He is, BTW, sweet, adorable, and very smart. Sometimes I feel like I'm looking into the eyes of a gifted child. However, I wouldn't trust him with a child. I hope your letter is effective in removing your granddaughter from what sounds like a dangerous situation.

a Yellow Lab
a Bull Mastiff
A rat Terrier

The terrier is the one who's a piece of work. A 10 pound hell raiser. He was one of my Xmas gifts. I asked my wife what was she thinking when he started to grow up and acted like he was the boss of the house.

The lab and the Bull Mastiff are both 90+ But the Mastiff just spends her time looking for something soft to lay on. And the lab spends all his time chasing rabbits and figuring ut how he can sneak into the pool

a bag of dog food? :P

He likes to rip things apart. And his jaws are so strong. However, when it comes to dog food bags, the dog food bag wins. He usually ends up with it on his head.

I don't have children, I live alone in a rural area and all of my dogs love to play rough and ready.
It is not a breed thing. It certainly depends on the quality/quantity of socialization the dogs get.
Sad to say, mine have no training time in that area.

and, P.S. the most combative of all is my 17 pound shoozoo mix. I have to rearrange the whole house around him!

mother gain custody of her. You're a saint.

Bu I'm no saint. Trust me on that one.

I just sent the letter. I'll call my son tonight and let him nothat I did it and why.

My next dilemma is the dogs.

I don't know for sure that they are doing what I suspect they are doing but if they are, what would the signs be.

Anybody have any ideas?

He does rescue.

not really.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

n/t

who spend a lot of time trying to put blacks behind bars is kind of high. I don't know much about this case, but dammit, can the man get a trial first before we condemn?

Good thing for them I missed their posts.

Good luck with your family situation! And thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences here - very insightful!!

Boy I really screwed this post up.

I was speaking about how many in the Black community are circling the wagons around Mike Vick.

I understand what you are saying.

There are complex issues afoot and I understand they are doing the "PETA as meme" thing but that is nothing new, when in fact it is HSUS and the ASPCA that are more involved in working with the powers that be to shut down dog-fighting. Using PETA is good for getting a knee-jerk reaction, so people do that for a reason. I'm afraid it is not going to fly, especially with the witnesses saying the dogs were electrocuted and beaten to death, public sentiment being the animal it is

Russell Simmons' blog entry was really nice yesterday, here is the whole thing
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=100344771&blogID=289557901
Thursday, July 19, 2007

A Letter Regarding Recent Incidents Involving Dog Fighting
Category: Pets and Animals

The recent media spotlight on dogfighting reminds us of society's callous disregard for the suffering of animals and disrespect for sentient beings. We hope that Mr. Vick is not a product of this insensitivity that runs through our society.

Whether through the Hip-Hop Summit Action Network, the National Action Network, the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), or People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), we believe in being agents of social change who responsibly and proactively fight the war against poverty and injustice and against ignorance and cruelty. Our battle must extend to those innocent animals who literally have no voice or choice.

It does us little good to prosecute just those who are famous and allow people across the country to continue to commit these hideous crimes.

We are hopeful that authorities will take the appropriate action against anyone found guilty of an atrocity as serious as dogfighting, and we will evaluate and monitor the prosecutors and judges responsible for protecting the innocent and helpless. Every animal has the right to live without fear and pain. It is our job to do whatever we can to ensure this basic right for all animals, and we intend to do just that! Let's give law enforcement and animal welfare professionals, who are on the front lines of battling violence and cruelty in every form, our active support in their quest to elevate our society.

Today, we sound a clarion call to all people: Stand up for what is right, and speak out against what is wrong. Dogfighting is unacceptable. Hurting animals for human pleasure or gain is despicable. Cruelty is just plain wrong.


Russell Simmons, RUSH Communications
Rev. Al Sharpton, National Action Network
Ingrid E. Newkirk, PETA
Wayne Pacelle, HSUS

I think that most people understand the issues that you are talking about.

In many of the posts that I read here there are usually one or two people who don't understand or read the post incorrectly--I have been one of those people a time or two.

BTW, great post.

K and r

a few years ago. We don't consider our dog an animal -- he's a member of our family, the "baby", & we were grieving the entire week he was missing in a nearby town, where he jumped out of the car window to pursue, most probably, a female scent in the air.

I searched for him day & night by car & foot for the entire week. The weather was cold & raining the entire week.

Late in the week when my son & I drove down the street of the seedier part of town, we stopped to talk to a young boy walking on the street. He told us that our dog could have been picked up by one of the gangs for dog fighting. He told us to look in the canal, that that's where they threw the dogs when they're done with them. My heart sunk, I was devastated, & I cried when I thought that my innocent, sheltered dog could have experienced that.

Thank God we found our dog; I do believe our prayers were answered. A young woman who lived 50 miles away across Lake Ponchartrain had picked him up off the interstate on a stormy day early in the week. She was on her way back home from college & she said she didn't usually go that route. She said her mother advised her to put an ad in the newspaper & I saw it the first day it was printed. She was one of God's angels on Earth.

Please, please show my story to your son!

There were anecdotes about people offering to transport dogs, except that they were not affiliated with any rescue agency. I'm sure some meant well, but rescuers tried to be really careful about who transported their dogs because it could have been dog-fighters looking for bait. There are fears that some dogs were taken for just that purpose, just picked off the street. Apparently, LA has an established dog-fighting ring.

I'm an anti-war anti-death penalty type. But when it comes to the abuse of kids and pets, my imagination runs wild with ways to punish the perpetrators.

I am sorry that you are faced with such a dilemna. That must be incredibly heart-wrenching. It sounds to me like they are training the dogs to fight, at least going through the preliminary motions. Dog-fighing is organized crime, driven by gambling, and associated with procurement of guns and drugs. I keep posting this photo of one of America's most famous dog-fighting kingpins, Floyd Boudreaux, in threads here and there today, he was busted in 2005 at the age of 70...he's on the right. This is the real face of dog-fighting in America

This is not to support or condemn Michael Vick. It use to be that in this country by law one is innocent until proven guilty. I've read many post here at "DU", and as a democrat I am totally surprised at the let's get the "N" attitude. In my entire life I have never seen the media just go hog wild on the attacking of this person, before he even has a hearing. Since the "OJ" trial the media has never put forth more energy than this one. Republicans and Democrats both have come together on a basic foundation to which they stand, and hear at "DU" aren't any different as I read the responses. I would understand it better if we all wouldn't let the media lead us to crucify anyone without a hearing, rather than wait until after the charges have been founded in a court of law.\

Bush for a week or two will relax for a while as we prejudge someone that has takened the heat off him.

Your post crystallizes the very thing I'm trying to say.

Please provide evidence of just one post (trolls excluded) that embody the sentiment of "Let's get the Nigger" here on DU. Just one.

Most people's visceral reactions to the story were based on the treatment of the animals. I'm sorry: "alleged" treatment

People on DU have the same visceral reactions to a lot of stories on DU. But it's interesting that you went right to race to make our point.

Not being a sports fan.

I am perfectly happy to let the courts "get" him for me. The people who gathered the evidence and put together the tight indictment are my heroes in this case.

Thank you for the post. I had no idea this was growing in black community. I hope indicting such a high profile player will put a stop to it.

for the past week, and I didn't know he was black until I opened this thread. Again, it's because I'm not a sports fan. My reaction of outrage was strictly to the abuse of animals, and I couldn't understand why some people were defending Vicks.

And just respond to words and acts without bias against race or gender or even age.

convicted felons and criminals, shit like this wouldn't be as glamorized and accepted by the hip-hop community.

Part of the reason shit stains like Vick engage in this sort of behavior is
that they know (or reasonably believe), that they can get away with it.

I do know two brothers who bred his dog and sold the pups. They do the rope thing but in no way are they involved in fighting.

Again I am sad to hear that anyone is backing Vick. Everyone that I have talked to -I work in a predominantly black female environment- are outraged at him both because of what he did was so horrible ( and I do think he is guilty) as well as him failing to at least NOT being a BAD role model-that was the least he could do (or at least keep it out of public view).

Moral understanding changes over time. The predominant factor in this is our sense of connection to the thing in question and whether it deserves our moral consideration. This is a combination of biology, neurology, and psychology.

Dogs are our supposed best friend because we practically bred them for 1000's of years. And the reason we bred them initially was to help kill other animals. They are still used for this purpose.

As we have progressed and learned that other species have a range of emotions and are even self aware we have begun including them in our moral consideration more and more. At one time it was believed that they were just dumb animals and that the only species worthy of moral consideration were humans. But this has changed.

Moral positions do not shift all at once in a society. There are those on the cutting edge of a new way of thinking and there are those who diametrically oppose such positions for other reasons. There are even pools of subgroups within the society that feel oppressed and drop out and form their own society beneath the oppressor society. These groups may not share many of the moral codes common in the larger social group.

In a true post modern society this situation would be addressed through dialog. No position would be given the benefit of being deemed the correct and proper view. But we do not live in a true post modern society. It is given mostly lip service but the fact is that those on the cutting edge of moral understanding believe they have valid arguments behind their positions. That the awareness that other species experience pain, suffering, and a host of other emotions gives them the mandate to step in and stop those who do not share this position as yet.

Imagine if someone claimed that children do not experience pain like we do. You would feel compelled to override their position because you see it as a clear case of abuse if they treat their children cruelly.

So this is the problem. When a subgroup of society does not share a moral position that the bulk of society holds very strongly and the violations of another entities rights are involved it creates a rather nasty vortex. Someone is going to be stepped on. And if that someone is part of a group that already sees itself as being oppressed it will just seem to them to be more fuel for the fire.

I don't care which ethnic or racial group practices it. I didn't know this guy was black until I saw a picture of him about a day after the story broke. And I don't care that he's black.

and your thoughts are appreciated.

but I must live a sheltered life. I didn't know it was more prevelant amongst one particular race...altho i guess if i think hard and long enuf, the only times I've seen it depicted on news or in movies was in the urban areas.

I', speaking from a Black viewpoint but as other DUer's have pointed out, this spreads across all racialla boundaries

You won't catch me leaving my dog alone outside the door at the grocery store again.

I would be scared to death of having any child around dogs that are being raised to fight. I'm also from the black community and have seen a rise in dogs being raised to fight-- it's a real shame.

I get to see my pumpkin in a few weeks. I can't wait. She just hugs our dogs and kisses them and uses them as big pillows.

There is nothing more beautiful than a bond between a person and their pet.

Thank you for so fearlessly sharing your multi-faceted dilemma. I will only address the parental part: you are doing the right thing in trying to get your grandchild OUT of what is a patently dangerous situation.

Your son and his wife are adults and have the right to make stupid decisions for themselves. Your grandchild (and the other two) have the right to live in safety. You may not be able to do anything about the other kids living there, but you can try to see that your own granddaughter doesn't.

Going against your own son this way is painful, but like I said, he's an adult.

:hug:

Hekate

The decision about my GD is easy. I want her in the safest enviroment.

It's the other 2 children and the dogs that are affecting me. All signs point to them not doing the right thing. I guess I could be a prick and say as long as my GD is ok, my worries are over. But there are 2 other children there as well as a lot of dogs.

...take an interest, though there's no way of telling.

Hekate

But I do recognize how hard these choices must be and I recognize the courage it takes to criticize those closest to us when the criticism cuts at a community you instinctively support.It is hard to form a hard and moral core of beliefs. I believe you have, at the cost of personal easiness, addressed a hard problem. And having done so, I admire both your honesty and choices...Best of luck, and admiration.

this issue transcends race, or at least I'd like to think so. At any rate, I'm heartbroken about Michael Vick, I've been rooting for this guy since he was just a teenager. His brother too. Plenty of people, both white and black have been giving them way too much benefit of the doubt for a long time. Personally, I kept thinking they were going to wake up and turn it all around some day. I was so wrong.

:cry:

I remember this trend starting in the 1980's and in all honesty it was a largely "white" hobby. That said, it does not matter what color a person who fights, hangs and drowns helpless animals is, it's a horrendous crime.

I am sorry about your son BronxBoy.

A bit of history: While animal fighting occurs almost everywhere in the world, dog fighting and fighting dogs have historically been associated with the United Kingdom. The baiting of bulls by dogs was even required by law. Mr. Perkins in his treatise of Cases of Conscience (published 1632) states: "The baiting of the bear, and cockfights, are no meet recreations. The baiting of the bull hath its use, and therefore it is commanded by civil authority; and so have not these.

This link is gruesome, but I wanted to source my quote: http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

Only a pathetic/sadistic human being would engage in this sort of "fun."

Mom will get the girl anyway, and this is your best chance to be able to maintain a relationship with your granddaughter. A pit bull breeding facility isn't a safe place for her anyhow.

The key is to expose the extent of the dog fighting underground and denounce it in every community - black, white, urban, rural, immigrant, native. It doesn't matter to the dogs who is arranging the fights - they all bleed red no matter who the owners are. My guess is that there are a lot more white people fighting dogs than blacks simply because there are more whites than blacks. Good people in every community need to denounce this "sport" and assist law enforcement.

It's disgusting. Those who force dogs to fight each other should be thrown down into the pit along with their dogs. Preferably hungry dogs, after the owner/trainer has been rubbed with Alpo.