Does America care about poverty?

As some of you may know, I post a bit here about poverty issues. Sometimes my posts sink into the archives pretty quickly; it can get pretty discouraging.

John Edwards has made poverty a main focus of his campaign, which is one reason that I so strongly support him.

Here's an excerpt from a July 20 LA Times article in which Edwards says: ""America cares! And we have to convince the media and the world that America cares...." Do you agree? Does America care?




And here are several links, should you choose to peruse them...


Transformational Change For America And The World - JOHN EDWARDS for PRESIDENT 2008

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

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A true revolution of values

"I'm proposing we set a national goal of eliminating poverty in the next 30 years." - JOHN EDWARDS 08

Building One America Starts in New Orleans - JOHN EDWARDS 08

Silence is Betrayal - JOHN EDWARDS 08

Moral Leadership - JOHN EDWARDS 08

Ending Poverty in America - edited by Senator John Edwards

I see the ignorance and lack of concern here so much at DU, that I no longer care that this country may completely tank.

If that's what it takes to "get it", then get on with it.

:cry:

But I voted YES in the poll....BECAUSE I CARE!!

:toast: :party: :toast:

And your perspective is very important, so your vote makes sense!

Please join me in being a thorn in the side of DU!

:hi:

I hope to be a thorn in the side of the entire establishment...and most of complacent society, too. i've made a life out of being a non-conformist and a rebel. I'm 36 now. I see no reason to not continue to be a rebel and a nonconformist. The only thing I have left to lose are my shackles.

THOSE are the things Amerika cares about.

Amerikans sure as HELL don't care about poverty.

For Dems, it's ALL WWWWAAAARRRRR, ALL THE TIME.

Us poor folk can just so take a powder.

Then, come election time, they'll be crying about how poor folk don't vote....


SHIT

American Idol!!

I swear, I think there would be a bigger protest if people's right to vote for American Idol was taken away than if their right to vote for the President and Congress was taken away!

Hell, I'll wager any amount you like (and, two years unemployed, I'm plenty poor) that more people (yes, even here) can name the last American Idol than can name their two Senators and their Representative in Congress.

For the record, my Senior Senator is Arlen Specter, my Junior Senator is Bob Casey (son of the former Governor of this state) and my Representative to Congress is Democrat Paul Kanjorski, who is now serving his 12th term in the House.

I'll go further...
I recently heard a report to the effect that only 2 percent of all Americans can list all five rights guaranteed by the first amendment to the Constitution. Can you? I could. But I'll not spoil it by posting the answers here. See if YOU can.

(I'm pretty sure YOU can, Bobbolink...that last was directed at anyone else who might read my words.)

about poverty. The face of poverty has been portrayed as only black. Since Reagan so successfully demonized the "cadillac driving, steak eating welfare queen" the poor have been considered undeserving.

and it just ain't so.

In 1999 there were 6,838,000 white households with income under $10,000. Whereas there were only 2,377,000 black households with income under $10,000. Thus 71% of all households with income under $10,000 were white. Similarly 80% of households with income $10-15,000 were white.

The reason, of course, is because 83.7% of households were white. The disparity at the other end is even greater. 87.8% of households with incomes over $75,000 were white. It is the greater rates of black poverty that are put in the news more with 28.6% of black households having income under $15,000 compared to 14.8% of white households.

That figures don't lie...but liars can figure!

and find out the hard way that they can't declare bankruptcy and they lose everything they thought they had.

The number of households with negative net worth is incredibly scary. These people might be surrounded by flat screen TVs and granite counter tops, but they are in poverty.

They're about to find that out.

It will take another Depression to restore the safety net.

created during the Great Depression is because FDR stole the idea from the socialists. At that time there was a powerful socialist movement in the US, with socialists winning mayoral contests in various cities.

as soon as we need it. For now, as long as the majority are not poor, the poor are fucked.

But, I have noticed a number of people (since st. ronnie made it popular) who are quite comfortable dismissing the problems of poverty as the result of "moral" flaws or personality flaws of the people themselves rather than looking to the ways in which our society, culture, government, corporations and institutions contribute to the creation of poverty.

Interestingly enough, I've noticed an insidious strand of that idea running through many "New Age" philosophies, e.g., you attract what you think is one example. Karma, which is frequently misunderstood, in another example.

As to our political leaders, poverty isn't a "sexy" enough topic. Poor people don't look good enough on camera. *sigh*

As for the electorate, I think so many of us are struggling right now that the idea of having anything "extra" to help some poor person, is just too much to think about. We've definitely been programmed into the mindset of "fear of scarcity"; scarcity of jobs, wages, health care, affordable housing and so on; all "institutionally" created shortages.

A poll I read a few weeks ago said most Americans are in favor of helping the poor; the same poll stated that the majority were against Welfare. The PR program against Welfare (and other government programs) was successful, but Americans, as a whole, are still compassionate people.

YMMV.

Yup, just imagine what all those Iraqis must have been thinking to attract all those USian bombs!!!

:crazy:

That's why they import it. :shrug:

with all of those hungry ,unwashed people!


Look over here DO YOU BELIEVE what Paris just did? Will Harry Potter survive? Do you have your new designer vagina yet?Look!! something shiny at the Mall!!

sheesh ! where are your priorities?:sarcasm:

Besides it will never happen to them. :sarcasm:

and that's America, too damned religious to give a damn.

And the god of that religion is $!

I really wish that religious people on DU would pipe up, and start discussing why their church/synagogue/temple, etc. really DOESN'T get involved in poverty issues.

There are many of us questioning this.

Perspiring minds want to know!

It looks like there is a "every man/woman for him/herself" mentality dominating this country!

Mostly through disinformation from the media and one President Ronald Reagan. Poverty, and unemployment, were at there lowest in the 1970s, when the Welfare State was fully funded and generally supported by the population. Thanks to a generation of vilifying the poor and dispossessed, the demonizing of welfare programs, and just plain old bigotry, we have gutted those successful programs, and ever since then, poverty has increased.

It rose to 15% under Reagan/Bush but fell to 11.8% by 1999. Probably has gone back up since then. But unemployment rate was not good in the 1970s. In fact when I took economics classes at the University of Minnesota, they called 5.5% unemployment - 'full employment'.

Unemployment rates went way down under Clinton, to record lows and worker participation rates were higher than either the 1970s or now. Part of what happened though is two-fold. First, a steady increase in the number of people getting disability and second, and more insidious, an increase in the number of 'temp jobs'. People with temp jobs are rarely unemployed, the temp agency sees to that, but they also never have a job with benefits.

We're not totally exonerated. Clinton fucked food stamps and AFDC. I agree with you though and helping the poor and the homeless and those on the edge is, in the long run, a whole lot cheaper than letting people and families fall apart, lose their homes, etc. It's all bigotry and blaming the victim. ...and evidently none of that "there but by the grace of *deity* go I" anymore at all. People entirely distance themselves, pretending it can never happen to them or to anyone they know or care about.
Lee

BTW, I lived hand to mouth for a number of years working 3 jobs and living on beans and rice.

But what could be more negative than focusing on the very condition you want to change?

It makes more sense to focus on the condition you want to see in the world.

That's one of the reasons I don't care for Edwards very much.

His war on poverty is as effective as a war on terrorism or drugs.

Yeah, I know he hasn't called it a war on poverty. But his approach is exactly the same.

You want to effectively help people work towards creating opportunity.

And one of the most workable programs is giving small-scale loans to women for them to start their own businesses.

Here is a great mass of people, yet it takes an effort of the intellect and will even to see them.

I discovered this personally in a curious way. After I wrote my first article on poverty, I had all the statistics down on paper. I had proven to my satisfaction that there were around 50,000,000 poor in this country. Yet, I realized I did not believe my own figures. The poor existed in Government reports; they were percentages and numbers in long, close columns, but they were not part of my experience. I could prove that the other America existed, but I had never been there."
Michael Harrington

If we don't focus on it, why would we ever do something about it? I think many of Edwards' proposals do focus on creating opportunity.

Yes, I come across a few who care, and are able to show it.

Most, however, either can't be bothered, or are fearful.

When even the suicides of people who survived the Superdome and the Convention Center don't move people, I don't see how ANYONE can say "Americans care".

It's mostly the poor themselves and progressive-minded people here at DU who care about poverty. I think the average American is so complacent in thinking poverty will never affect them that they just do not care about the issue. Personally, I've had to live in a car for almost a year and find meals at shelters before, so I know poverty & that's why I care about the issue. I volunteer about 10 hours a week at a shelter, so I do what I can to help.

The headlines & stories that we read here about the horrible treatment of the poor is sad. There have been headlines posted on DU about police who have kicked homeless people out from under highway overpasses in 100 degree weather. Shelters were full or unavailable, so the only place these people had to stay cool was under a shady overpass. We read stories about how good Samaritans are not allowed to feed the homeless in public places, and there are also headlines about how roving gangs of teenage thugs go out looking for homeless people to rough up for "fun." As a society I think the majority of us don't care about poverty, and to me that's a sign of a sick and morally bankrupt society.

Professionals and Hi Tech Skills workers, more Americans
may awaken from their stupor.

It is important that we recognize that Economic Funddamentalism
of Conservatives for the past 20 has contributed Mightily to
attitudes re Poverty and assisted in producing conditions for
it to exist.

Fundamentalism of Conservatism: Privatize everything, rely on
yourself, and expect nothing from your government.Private Spending
is rational and efficient and public spending is always wasteful
and unproductive. Free trade will solve any remaining problems.

Keep up the good works.

"It's mostly the poor themselves and progressive-minded people here at DU who care about poverty."

If there are many DUers who care, then why don't they respond to pleas on DU to call, write, etc., about cutbacks, the budget, etc.

Before you reply that many do those things, but don't post... let me remind you that post about "DU this vote" get TONS of responses.

I would never get a response back when I wrote, and I would always get the run-around via the phone. It seems like politicians are off-limits to us common folk kind of like how big movie stars are. Maybe if I were a big political donor, or some bigshot lobbyist they might give me the time of day. It shouldn't be like that, but it is. I quit doing that and just help fight poverty in a way I can actually make a difference. My 10 hours or so per week I volunteer at a shelter mostly consist of working with homeless men helping them to read, showing them how to fill out job apps, or guiding them through the steps of obtaining a G.E.D. I feel like doing that is the best thing I can do to help those in poverty.

Unfortunately, they don't understand it. So, the net effect is essentially the same.


People believe that poverty is anecdotal, and that it means someone has no financial means. ("That person is poor because s/he is an alcoholic/in poor health/a single parent/etc.") People want to believe this, I think, because it puts some psychic space between their lives and the lives of the poor.

At the same time, the dialogue in this country is controlled by those who have the money and those who have the power. It is in their best interest to steer national conversation away from poverty. We don't talk about real poverty in this country--how could companies sell $800 shoes or cruiseship vacations if we did? The public is encouraged to buy their way to happiness and security, and to care about things that don't mean anything. The status quo keeps the money and the power where it is.


I think that poverty is a symptom. It is the intersection created by lack of access to health care, affordable housing, equal education--all the basics, you know?-- and all things that this country could address if those in power had the will to do so. We'd save money in the long term, I think, and we'd be a better country for it.

So, keep talking about it. The only place this conversation will come from is us.

"Unfortunately, they don't understand it." - I have had many conversations about Edwards and his main issue and the response has been basically that people through inaction and being "lazy" allow themselves to be in poverty. I find that kind of rhetoric absolutely appalling and ignorant. How many of us are two or three paychecks away from losing everything? As Edwards states there are too many "working poor' in this country and that's the shame.

I mean, it depends on what you mean by "care."

Do you remember the scene in Hotel Rwanda where the western journalist has the footage of the genocide and one of the locals says something like when Americans see the video, something will get done. And the journalist is like, "No, they'll see it and go 'oh, isn't that horrible' and go back to their lives."

Or, Americans say, "Poor people, how awful - I must do something to help." But, yes, bright shiny objects, people get distracted and forget.

AS if it has ever been a priority . It seems one of the most easliy avoided problems in american society , people may see it and know about it but when they get home they can sit back and forget about it .

... and a handful of others.

My older sister, who since Mom died last year, sends me a hundred every few months and, of course,
my ex-boss who lets me live in my trailered boat on his farm with no rent and free (what little that I use) electricity,

in general, our society as a whole does not care about us. if they did, they would, instead of annual COL increases of
about $20/mo based on cooked data, they would make sure that us old, disabled folks, who paid in SS all their lives
and then got cheated out of most of it by their punitive disability determination process, had a realistic amount to live on
in this day and age, instead of $623/mo.

I'd like to see most others in our society try to live on that amount, like they seem content to make us live on, while telling themselves, at best, that we are being taken well care of, and, at worst, that it's despicable that some are able to live
off the government. How little some of them know and understand

They only care after we die on their doorstep. It's unseemly and smells bad after the body starts to rot.

No, I don't think America cares about poverty. Our own Mr. Clinton totally fucked food stamps and AFDC.

Edwards has my vote in the primary and hopefully in the general election.

...and k&r..

Lee

We've been way too thoughtful about keeping our unsightly suffering and death out of their field of vision.

How nice of us.

Just because Bushco is morally bankrupt doesn't mean that folks can't be convinced to have consicences again.

There is a lot of truth to the fact that it is just not glamorous enough a topic to grab the headlines, boost tv ratings or sell papers/books. I don't watch much tv and even I know that if one thought television was representative of American society as a whole, one would think there is no poverty at all in this country.
And sadly a lot of people think television is representative of reality.


It would take a serious recession to get people to take it seriously.

A woman.... a fine, upstanding life-long DEM woman, recently told me I could surely understand her fear of homeless people, because she read a lot of mystery novels, and in many of them, homeless people are portrayed as the villains.

So, there you have it.

How could anyone POSSIBLY argue with that sort of reference material?

Then people wonder why many of us homeless people just give up.......

:hi:
Yep, that is very sad. I have always found it strange how people who have the most seem "afraid" of those who have the least :shrug:? There has been such effective demonization of the homeless by so many factions in our society that some people perceive homelessness as a "scam"-go figure :eyes:. I am not old enough to know-but I have often heard it said that Reaganomics (yuck) is responsible for a lot of that.
You are right-it is worse even than invisibility-when homelessness or poverty are depicted at all, they are actively demonized :mad:.

Or, have I completely lost my touch?

~~gigglesnort~~

I stood up and faced this woman, and said, "What about me frightens you? What can I, as an old woman, do to you?"

Would you be surprised to learn that she couldn't answer that?

Would you be further surprised to learn that it didn't change her fear?

I can't tell you how hopeless I felt to learn that we are now even demonized in cheap novels, and that it's scaring "liberals".

Really, just when I think I couldn't feel more hopeless, something like that smacks me in the face.

I wish we could really have an in-depth discussion about all this on DU, but I've given up on that, too.

Yours truly....

the homeless scam artist.... :rofl:

The in-depth discussion of these issues :). They are the most important ones.

Yes the homeless "scam" artist stuff infuriates me too. I remember I started ditching most of the people I was back-packing with in Europe because I was constantly lectured at about my evil, evil ways for emptying my pockets when I would see someone asking for change. It is apparently frowned upon even more in Europe than here :shrug:. What really got to me is being told over and over again how all those people were these evil scam artists, when we so readily give our money to scam artists all the time. If I can buy a Coors beer, I can give to a homeless person. I think giving to Coors is much more of a "scam" than giving to a hungry, homeless person. We really need to rewire the way we think.

Last night I was invited to a neighborhood block party (not my neighborhood, as I don't have one....), and there was a guy drinking a beer with this label;

Arrogant Bastard Ale

Now, isn't that a whole lot better than coors? :rofl:

I gotta tell ya... homeless life is ever sooooo much fun.... scam and all.

You oughtta join us in the scam sometime, and see just how great life can really be.





Do I need that sarcasm tag?

As for the indepth discussions about poverty here... yes, I gave up on it.

There are more and more poor folk here, and you'd think DU liberals would consider us a resource, a way to gain valuable understanding.

But, nooooooooo......... We're mostly ignored, or trolled to death.

Pardon me..... I see a really nice bridge up there....

:hi:

We are not homeless, but we do live on $1238/month for two people (do the numbers, fellow DUers- that is $14,856/yr, or under 125% of poverty rate). We live at the edge, and only through a bit of good luck do we break even at the end of the month- we sold the house in the Bay Area and our house payment is under $200/mo. If we had to rent, we would be screwed. As it is, we appreciate the free food give-away each month, because it really does help, especially with prices going up so much.

Hubby is in dialysis, and I don't work because he needs a caregiver. It is a real strain on me. When he finally shuffles off this mortal coil, I'm hoping I can get SSI. I certainly will be mentally unable to do any kind of work and don't now qualify for SSDI.

I think that most people in this country care about poverty. I think the majority of people are generous, and try to help people in their family/neighborhood/community who are in need.

However, many good and decent people believe that there are adequate social programs, usually run by some level of government, which meet poor people's needs. The lack of awareness and appreciation for poverty-related issues isn't due to a lack of caring, or a lack of intelligence.

Rather, it is because there is a systematic attempt to mis-educate people about poverty-related issues, which went into a higher gear during the Reagan era. It is run by those people who have an investment in poverty, and who reap financial rewards by insuring that there is a large group of people who are poor. That sounds strange, I know -- but a relatively few people make a fortune on poverty.

Being on the receiving end of the ugliness, I disagree with you about the "generous" part. I can respect your opinion, however, as I think it's a matter of point of view.

The "Poverty Industry" has led to the crowning of "experts" who often don't know their behinds from a hot rock, and think all poor people need to be treated with a kick in the rear. The concept that *everyone* needs "tough love" (which is far from love) has led to a lot of ugliness and disrespect, and downright hurtfulness. But, since it comes from "experts", it's given credence. What poor people say about it doesn't matter, and what we say we need isn't heard.

When we are respected and listened to, and our voices taken into account in planning these "programs", it will have a much different look to it, and maybe then we will get more respect and compassion from the general public.

I voted yes. Because fear is a kind of caring. :hug: :grouphug:

:shrug:

Edwards is my choice for the primaries too this time-made up my mind last week :). I have regretfully decided that one other person I was hoping would run probably won't at this point and that as much as I love the Kooch he probably won't win. I am making by DU Actblue donation tonight :bounce:.

:bounce:

Let me join you.

:bounce: :bounce:

But I'm sure a good portion of it is because I've been close to the edge for a while now.

"If you are poor, it is a sign that you are not part of the Elect, and therefore do not warrant consideration."

(translation: if you are poor, you deserve to be that way 'cause our version of God is pissed at you, so go off and starve to death somewhere.)

And don't forget that whole "bootstraps" ethic.

Even when they themselves are poor, they don't want to admit it. As long as they have shelter and food on the table they'll believe they're just having problems "making ends meet." Living hand to mouth is being poor. Most Americans think only people pushing shopping carts on the street or living out of cars are "really" poor.

This is what separates the current efforts from those of the past.

So our Corporate Government says, move along, nothing to see here.

shining this light -

K&R!!

the people, who provide ALL the labor, are impoverished by the parasitical rich and the parasitical capitalists

When a town or a region is devastated by a natural disaster, flood, tornado, hurricanem people are pretty quick to open their hearts and wallets. Chronic poverty, on the other hand tends to blind people, closing their hears and wallets.
Even disaster areas after a while become old people asking when those peiple are going to get off their asses and get on with living.
I have firmly came to believe that its going to take another depression to make people aware of how millions of Americans have been living, and if that's what it takes then I say let's get to it.
I make my wife mad, she likes to watch wedding shows, the ones where people spend many many thousands of dollars on, recently we watched one that cost 60,000 dollars, I pissed her off because I said anyone who could spend that much money on a wedding has too damn much money.
I can't go into what I really told her ought to be done with these richpiggie bastards use your imagination.

poverty in America - to some people's thinking - is like one of those distant far away third world countries....you hear about it, might even see it on the TV, but it's not really a part of your life....actually it's not even registered as high.... a lot of Americans think those poor people in those distant far away places are more real than the poverty within their own towns and cities.

the greatest nation on earth?
the wealthiest nation on earth?
the land of the free?
home of the American Dream?

Poor people? Well then..it must be their fault! Because we got the American dream and if you aren't living it, it must be because you're lazy or not trying hard enough...cause gee, I'm living it...even if I can't make ends meet...even if I have to go without...even if I work hard everyday and have nothing to show for it...yet..I will one day! I aspire!..so if I can do it and still believe all is well in America and that one day if I just work hard enough, I'll have it all , then so can those poor people!...because I'm not like them! And if it's not me...then it must be them.

Well, actually, I do think some people think that way

I also think there are people in America who do care...and I also think we could do a lot to alleviate poverty in America if the poor weren't used as handy scapegoats..as a means to rile people..to spread fear...

crime!
welfare mothers!
stealing from you to support "them"!
dirty!
lazy!

etc, etc...