Boys Face Sex Trial for Slapping Girls' Posteriors

Source: abcnews



Boys Face Sex Trial for Slapping Girls' Posteriors
Do the Two Middle-Schoolers Deserve Jail and a Sex Crime Record for What They Call an Exuberant Greeting?


Cory Mashburn, 13, who has been charged with misdemeanor harassment and sexual abuse. (Courtesy of the Mashburn family)
By SCOTT MICHELS
July 24, 2007


...........

Cory Mashburn and Ryan Cornelison, both 13, were arrested in February after they were caught in the halls of Patton Middle School, in McMinnville, Ore., slapping girls on the rear end. Mashburn told ABC News in a phone interview that this was a common way of saying hello practiced by lots of kids at the school, akin to a secret handshake.

The boys spent five days in a juvenile detention facility and were charged with several counts of felony sex abuse for what they and their parents said was merely inappropriate but not criminal behavior.

The local district attorney has since backed off -- the felony charges have been dropped and the district attorney said probation would be an appropriate punishment. The Mashburns' lawyer said prosecutors offered Cory a plea bargain that would not require him to register as a sex offender, which the family plans to reject.

But the boys, if convicted at an Aug. 20 trial, still face the possibility of some jail time or registering for life as sex offenders.

Read more: http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3406214&page=1

---

Take a look at the photo of the kid on the website.

This is insane!----to register these boys as sex offenders?--

Gotta keep that that prison industrial complex busy, dontcha know.

I do believe these kids behaved inappropriately, and if this was a common practice that their school, where were all of the adults who are supposed to be keeping stuff like this from ever _becoming_ common practice?

It certainly needs to be addressed but Gestapo tactics are not my speed.

Never mind; rhetorical question.

Getting swatting on my ass was how I met my first husband!

I think that should be dealt with, but not to the degree that the kid has to register for life as a sex offender. :sheesh:

:hi: SeattleGirl! :hug:

But I do agree that it needs to be dealt with. Boys need to be taught that girls aren't market produce to be fondled. But labeling these kids as sex offenders for this is ridiculous.

If the problem continues, then that's entirely different.

This country has gotten even weirder about sex, if possible.

Do you think Ginger The Wiley and Excellent Cat, would share his bed? I think sometimes that I wanna get out of here.

but being indicted, and possbly beign registered as a sex offender are clearly overblown measures in this case.

And they aren't punishing all the boys who participated that day.

It should've been handled by the school as a first offense - suspension, lecture, etc.

They're being charged with misdemeanors. Guys trying to get aggressive in feeling up girls at this early age need to get a serious lesson in what's appropriate and what isn't.

Keep your hands off the girls unless you're invited, period.

There's still too much "boys will be boys" mentality in this country. As evidenced by a few posters on this thread.

What a wonderful world that would be.

criminals.

How can these boys be lumped with rapists and pedophiles?

It's outrageous.

They spent five days in juvenile hall.

That's more than adequate.

They would have been better off beating the shit out of them instead.

...creating a "one strike, you're out" law wherein anyone convicted of a sex crime (i.e. like these kids) is automatically sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. :crazy:

particularly if this is enough to be considered a sex crime. I've heard that people who are caught urinating in public are sometimes registered as sex offenders too.

I think they need some response, and depending on the particulars, maybe they could be charged with a juvenile misdemeanor and given a mild sentence, but can you imagine a kid being in prison forever because he swatted some girls' butts in jr. high school?

I know what you were trying to say, but "beating the shit out of them" was the wrong choice of words, don't you think?

:blush:

good hard swats to the boys' frontal region. After all--they could just state that it is a way of saying "hello". But that would be just terrible behavior on the girls part.They are supposed to accept the "greeting" from boys. Sorry , but these boys need to be put in their place by the courts , if their parents cannot teach them otherwise.

offenders?

Interesting point of view coming from someone who choose the Dalai Lama as their avatar.

They do need to be punished, but painting them as criminals is clearly over the top.

These boys deserve the same instruction and discipline that the rest of us received, which doesn't have to include JAIL TIME and a criminal record.

They are kids, they are learning appropriate behavior. When I was a kid I played I'll show you mine if you show me yours with a neighbor girl.....should I have a felony on my record today? Or should we remember that kids are not adults, and often need to be taught what is and isn't appropriate?

Going to court isn't "instructive" its punitive.

Ms. Perky: So, I hear you were terrorizing Mr. Morgan's class... again.

Kat Stratford: Expressing my opinion is not a terrorist action.

Ms. Perky: The way you expressed your opinion to Bobby Ridgeway? By the
way, his testicle retrieval operation went quite well, in case you're interested.

Kat Stratford: I still maintain that he kicked himself in the balls.

...teach our daughters to recognize seemingly silly and harmless acts of sexual coercion. I work in a middle school and I see this stuff every day. The boys want to hug and touch and pat, ad infinitum. The girls like the attention and, for the most part, they think it's cute. Or, worse, it becomes a barometer of popularity.

I'd love to teach a class so these girls can understand that this behavior by boys is only the beginning of a sexual power tug-of-war and that they can respond in a whole spectrum of acceptable ways. I understand that it's basic adolescent biology and it's not going to stop. I'm just saying that I do not like the monolithic nature of the girls' responses that I've observed. There are so many other choices.

Personally speaking, I spent many years teaching my daughter about touching and boundaries and, just because the "toucher" is now an eighth grade boy who's hoping to press his perenially erect penis against her leg, if only for one fleeting moment, she shouldn't feel pressured to change how she reacts to it.

Only a few, who really just are not 'touchers', are likely to reject that mass indoctrination.

Suspend the boys, absolutely. Ruining their boys lives with prison and branding them as sex registration with outrageous.

From the article: "The Mashburns' lawyer said prosecutors offered Cory a plea bargain that would not require him to register as a sex offender, which the family plans to reject." Sounds like a reasonable offer to me. But if they reject it and take the chance that the kid gets aquitted at trial, and he's then convicted, it's on the parents for rolling the dice.

A tradition I vaguely remember from high school.

Football is a MANLY sport!

Football is FULL of TESTOSTERONE!

There's no ass-patting in football!!!!!!

The world will come to an END if this is allowed.

An END, I tell ya! An END!!!

Marriages will be threatened!!!

Children will be harmed!!!!

God will throw lightening and thunder at us!!!!

Locusts will descend upon us!!!

BABY JESUS WILL CRY!!!!

Why do football players HATE America???????

:cry: :cry: :cry:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

LOL

:rofl:

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

"Berry, the district attorney, said the victims -- the girls who were touched -- were being overlooked. "What's been lost in this whole thing are the victims, who have been pressured enormously by these boys' friends," he said."

This is nothing more that inappropriate behavior that should be handled by the schools and the parents.

Berry, don't you have some real crimes to prosecute, you now like slamming the locker door too hard, littering in the halls, or maybe talking too loud in the lunch line?

...and what he meant," with your host....NeedleCast! (cheering)

The DA said: "the girls who were touched -- were being overlooked. What's been lost in this whole thing are the victims, who have been pressured enormously by these boys' friends."

What the DA meant: "This case my garner national attention and I didn't learn a fucking thing from the Nifong situation. I'm going to pursue it relentlessly and ruin the lives of a few 13 year olds. I'll pay no attention to anything other than seeing my name in headlines across the country as I shout "convict! convict! convict!" and pay no attention to the fact that one of the victims doesn't think it's a big deal. I want to send a message to young boys around the country, and that message is this: "I'm not as famous as I think I should be!"

and is too young to make a rational decision on whether getting slapped on the butt is a appropriate.

Do you have a teenage daughter?

I doubt it.

Getting charged as sex offenders is too drastic. But taking this very seriously is important.

I don't have a teenage daughter, but I do have a younger sister who I was very defensive of when we were younger. If someone had done it to my sister without her being okay with it that person probably would have been on the receiving end of a beating from me. Since my sis and I were only three years apart, most of her friends, and all of her boyfriends knew about her line-man sized older brother and this wasn't often an issue.

That being said, I did a bit of grab-assing as a teen. So did pretty much everyone else I know. I won't argue that that somehow makes it right...it doesn't, but it's often a fact of life at that age. Hormones. Puberty. All that noise. If smacking an ass gets you charged as a sex offender, I'd bet 90% of the people I know would have been forced to register at one point or another.

Is taking this seriously important? Yes. The parents of these kids need to deal with it. I'd even go so far as to say the school needs to make sure they've effectively communicated to the students that an ass slap or a boob grab is *NOT* an appropriate greeting.

However, I fear for the future because of the stunt that this DA is trying to pull. There is a high school not far from me in Maryland that made local headlines/TV news when they suspended a boy for hugging his girlfriend. This wasn't a "passionate" rubbing, groping huge. He walked up behind her in the cafeteria and put his arms around her shoulders. Suspended. Suspended because the school has a zero tolerance policy on TOUCHING! You can't touch other students on school grounds. No hugs, no kisses, no holding hands, no playful punch on the shoulder, no high-five, no handshakes...

That's where taking things like this too seriously gets us.

Double Plus Good and a lack of shaving razors.

The school should definitely be taking this more seriously than they have. Girls swatting boys - boys swatting girls - it is all inappropriate behavior.

I don't see it as criminal behavior.

everyone was always kissing everyone hello and goodbye

and it was driving the school admins crazy. (possibly because it was just too prevalent and kids were late to class ...?)

in any case, i think she told me the school admins finally said if they caught the kids doing this hello/goodbye kiss it was detention!

maybe this school where these boys attend should have taken the bull by the horns and told the kids KNOCK IT OFF OR YOU'RE IN DETENTION!

my guess is that after a detention or two this behavior would have stopped. they missed the opportunity to talk to kids about appropriate behavior/touching/respecting other people/etc.

between sexual harassment and sexual assault. What Bill O'Reilly did on the phone to his subordinate is sexual harassment. Touching a girl's breasts against her will is sexual assault.

Of course, the age of the perp should be considered when dealing out any punishment. But the fact is, this sounds like an assault and it's high time for some accountability when it comes to behavior like this. We are not talking about 6 year olds here, and this sort of behavior at age 13 will likely lead to more aggressive assaults if it isn't stopped now.

All this, "Oh, that's just the way boys are" bullshit sickens me.

Lock them up! After a few years in juvenile jail for the high crime of touching a boob I'm SURE they'll come out as well adjusted adults. I mean, after all, horsing around in the hallway and "poking a breast" is the same as rape, right?

I have no doubt at all that you didn't read the majority of the article and if you did, I have no idea how you can refer to this as an assault.

...you are right. Girls deserved to be groped. Early and often! They actually like it, even if it makes a couple of them uncomfortable. (no is the new yes!) Good future training all around for boys and girls.

I feel like I'm in Freeperville reading this shite.

they can learn all about anal sex too...as the victim...




In case you need it: :sarcasm:



What a sick fucking country that could even allow DA's to have the choice of charging kids this way...

These boys are probably suffering from the "Too much Television" syndrome combined with the
"Poor Parenting" syndrome.

So you want to see them convicted as felons, and placed in jail where (as youths) they would
certainly be brutalized by other prisoners. Tell me, how would suffering rape teach them
anything at all. . .

:wtf:

..we're getting pretty inundated here in Portland with this stuff. Just amazing.

While the national word is that they might find themselves in jail and having to register as sex offenders, the latest word around here in Portland is that they probably won't be facing jail time or sex-offender registration–mostly because of the embarrassment the furore is causing.

What follows is the buzz we've heard; compute this accordingly:

While I hardly know the facts, the buzz and the impression I got is that the boys and their families are being looked at now as bigger victims–victims of an out-of-control prosecutor who's over a barrel now that he's looking like Torquemada. Another bit of rumorly buzz we're hearing locally is, as facile as it may sound, a few of the girls have recanted to some degree.

Regardless of the rumor, the thing has gotten way out of control. AFAIK, we shouldn't even be reading about this in our papers; the boys deserved discipline, but not a night or two (so it's been said) in jail, and the parents didn't deserve to be beggared by legal charges.

Back when I was in middle school there would have been a lot of public local embarrassment and two fellows who learned the hard way (with a few swats to the backside and some apologies) how to act in public. And I wasn't in middle school all that long ago...

In school a long time ago, a boy named Chip decided to show me his penis for whatever reasons he had - so he did and he was so just proud....right up to the moment I pinched the head and twisted hard(I've always had a very low tolerance for such displays and behavior)


Chip didn't grow up to be a predator and I didn't grow up to be a serial twister.

You can't go around slapping the bottoms of girls(or boys) - sooner or later it will get ugly. But that doesn't mean the young boy/girl doing the swatting is a predator...


I find the charges to be counter-productive to the lessons that need to be learned.

Keep your hands to yourself
You have no right to fondle/touch anyone.
People have no-touch zones and those zones can be different for different people. Areas where they feel uncomfortable being touched - which is why you keep your hands to yourself.

Judging from the article, the entire student body could use a lesson in appropriate verses inappropriate behavior...and self-respect.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:eyes:

:eyes: :eyes:

Are you saying prosecuting these 13-year-olds as sex offenders is okay?

These 13 year old boys have got to stop molesting girls!

Making them apologize in front of the whole school is a very appropriate punishment.

If everybody at school was doing it as these kids say why was he and his friend the only ones taken to the principal's office? Why does the OP not quote the part of the article where it says that the kid made some of the girls "uncomfortable" and groped some breasts to boot? The problem with these snippets is that too many people read just what the OP posts and not the whole story so that you are only getting the side the OP wants you to get.

I'm not advocating this kid be registered as a sex offender but he and his friend need some kind of discipline which hopefully their parents will also take seriously that they are not entitled to pat women on the asses and grope their breasts. If they go on with these beliefs they will grow up to be major league ass-holes.

defending the behavior. They are, however, saying "let the punishment fit the crime."

If I had been punished as an adult for some of the shit I did as a minor, I'd still be serving time at 33.

when you do a post on this that you should include all the details including the inappropriate touching and not say "look at the picture" of that poor boy (which, by the way, the boys family provided) because that doesn't mean a thing. Yes, let the punishment fit the crime. But my guess is that with all the attention this is no doubt getting that the DA will eventually come to his senses and not charge them with anything and they'll go back to school and think they have gotten away with something. I do agree that the school and the parents should have handled this without bringing in the police.

Please read the full article. The police were brought in immediately, interogated the boys in the vice principlas office and took them away (in handcuffs) straight to a juvenile correction facility where they were held for five days.

They went to jail for five days because they committed the "crime" of doing something that was, apparently, fairly commonplace at the school.

All the attention in the country didn't stop Nifong. Again, by reading the full article you'll see this is not the first time that this DA has gone after young boys. You'll also see that two of the comparing girls later recanted their testimony because they "felt pressure from the DA to complain." So you've got a DA here who is putting pressure on teenage girls to support his pet case, has a record of pursuing this type of case and who is pressing for a punishment that pretty much everyone sees as being disproportionate to the crime...and you think he's going to come to his senses?

I remember an old episode of Star Trek: Next Generation where Wesley Crusher falls through a barrier and crushes some flowers while playing a game outdoors. The punishment? Death. Because the planet they were on punishes all crime by death.

We move a little closer, every day, when people start to find things like what the DA is chasing acceptable. Inch by inch.

The school resource officer is very often in on discipline.

Elementary schools have school resource officers assigned, but they are not necessarily on campus full time.

We have decided that our children are all potential criminals and we have to criminalize inappropriate behaviors in order to justify the full time presence of law enforcement officers in the schools.

When I was in middle/high school (85-92) we had a wooden paddle with a lot of holes in it wielded by a terrifying brute of a gym teacher. Our "security officer" was a peice of carved wood.

It's really, truely terrifiying to me and part of my decision not to have children. Global warming, Authoritarian administrations, energy resources...these things worry me. Turning all our children into nothing more than a series of criminals and victims...that terrifies me.

Makes me sad.

The school my kids go to lost its principal to retirement this year. I sat on the selection committee for the new principal. In interviews, it was astounding how many of the candidates had the idea that children needed to be severely punished for minor infractions. Some of the examples of punishment were simply stunning. Often times the punishment didn't fit the infraction!

I came away with the experience really rather grateful that my kids' school is progressive. The kids feel safe and respected. Bullying isn't tolerated and there aren't a whole helluva lot of discipline issues. Probably because the kids feel safe and respected.

tried that with my kid.

There are discipline problems in schools. It goes with the territory of teaching kids.

But, these days, we throw the heaviest book at the kids we can find.

I remember when detention was the favored method of punishment. A weeks worth of dentention was severe punishment.

The parents were inconvenienced by detention, not just the students, so the kids who got detention at school were in trouble at home too.

And we had less discipline problems then than there are now.

When the schools and law enforcemnt go for overkill, they place the parents in the position of having to defend their child(ren) rather than to appropriately discipline their child(ren). This further breaks down discipline in the schools.

The ideal is to have the schools and the parents work together. More and more, the schools are taking over the role of disciplinarian even in situations that don't involve the school, and thus, they undermine and usurp the parents' role.

but it was really all the deterant we needed in high school. That, and as you mentioned, detention. Hell, I would have rather taken swats than spend a Saturday at school.

Your post is spot on.

you'd still be in prison until you were 60...

Maybe a couple days suspension and their parents being dragged into school? Or even some sort of counseling to make them understand why it is wrong?

Calling the police? locking them up? making them sex offenders for life?

The world has indeed gone mad.

With the coverage given by the main newspaper in Oregon (the Oregonian), I suspect this case will be dropped in short order.

that won't solve the problem of chicken-shit DA's and zero tolerance bullshit...

IMO, a major issue here is parents not taking responsibilty for their kids.

There's going to be a lot more of this.

it IS harassment. I doubt the sexual abuse charges will pan out.

My god people... get a grip.

serious issue and the legal system DOES have a say about it.

If you read the (long) Oregonian article that I linked to, you'll see that several of the girls also participated in the "swat butt" day. Some of the *victims* of the incident admitted to doing the same thing.

"All told, Roache (the police officer who responded to the school initially) interviewed 14 students besides Cornelison and Mashburn. Seven confessed to bottom-swatting, including one girl who described it as "a handshake we do." Two of the alleged victims said they had swatted boys' buttocks themselves."



http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1185040507206380.xml&coll=7

Cops and jail are DEFINITELY the way to solve this "problem"...

:sarcasm:

Yes, cops and jails are MADE to solve this problem, which is criminal.

I would certainly hate it. I would exect the boys to be severely punished for this. I would _not_ expect them to go to jail and have their lives ruined by excessive prosecution.

Apparently, according to two different articles, this was practice of both boys and girls at this school.

The school already suspended the boys 5 days, it would be unfair to let the girls completely off the hook. AFter reading the article it seems quite clear that this is common practice, and not likely to damage any of the "slapees", but still if you punish one, you have to punish everyone who displays the same behaviour.

Jail however, is just plain stupid.

Sorry, not too sure how this was double-posted.

when those charges are thrown around for such a stupid thing. Yes, it was wrong, yes they should be in trouble, but they shouldn't have their entire lives ruined. Ass slapping is a reformable behavior.

Guaranteed. You can reply that you are, but you're either full of it or totally hypocritical.

Keep repeating this line over to yourself:
Inappropriate but not criminal!
Inappropriate but not criminal!
Inappropriate but not criminal!
Inappropriate but not criminal!
Inappropriate but not criminal!
Inappropriate but not criminal!
Inappropriate but not criminal!
Inappropriate but not criminal!
Inappropriate but not criminal!

Were they boys wrong? *YES!*

Should they be disciplined by the school? *YES*

Should they be disciplined / instructed / corrected by their parents? *YES*

Should they have a sex offender record? ****NO OF COURSE NOT***

Should they serve jail time? ***NO OF COURSE NOT***

When in our society did we forget that kids are kids - they make mistakes, they sometimes make poor social decisions, especially when trying to understand the complicated realities of relationships and budding sexuality. They require guidance and discipline as well as love and patience. You DO NOT require being treated like a public enemy for being guilt of NOTHING MORE THAN BEING A KID AND REQUIRING GUIDANCE ON APPROPRIATE SOCIAL BEHAVIOR.

and I AM the parent of a teen girl.

If some classmate touched my daughter's butt, I would expect a public apology, not
a jail sentence.

Since two of the victims (girls) have confessed to police that they did the same damned thing.

I would just tell her to slap his butt right back.

(different state,different school, different boys)..and the way it was finally resolved was when I threatened to sue the school AND press charges against the boys. Three boys in her class would chase her around taking turns swatting her butt. They'd do it in the classroom and hallways and pretty much any chance they got. When it first happened my daughter told the boys to knock it off. The next time she told a teacher who told her to "get over it". The next time it happened my daughter told me and I went directly to the school principal who assured me he would take care of the problem...he didn't. I complained again and got the old "boys will be boys" bullshit. I got the same from the parents when I called them. I went to the superintedent and demanded a meeting with her and the parents of these boys (who thought it was just so cute.) At that meeting I informed them all that if it happened one more time I would be filing charges against all of them for sexual assault, I would be hiring an attorney to school the district and I also let the superintendent know that I would be going to the media about the situation as well. Finally it stopped. And I was absolutely prepared to go the distance..and I would have gladly seen those three boys have a record because of the behavior. In fact I kick myself for NOT having gone to the police right off the bat. This shit went on for weeks.

But much, much worse.

The men out here have no idea what they are talking about as they have no frame of reference. Or if they do......

Girls must start making this an issue. I tell my girls and nieces this all the time. You are no one's sexual plaything.

I find it very, very disturbing that such behavior is considered normal and okay by so many. Especially here.

I tell my daughters the same thing. NO ONE has the right to put their hands on you without your permission. No fanny slaps...no "tickling"...nothing...and if someone dares to I tell them to raise holy hell.

I do remember observing said behavior when I was 13. I knew that it was totally inappropriate, but many guys didn't. I still know these guys and while they lacked maturity back then and some of them do now, I can tell you that they don't deserve to be registered sex offenders.

IMO, had this behavior been witnessed by a teacher when I was in school, suspension probably would've been the punishment. Usually suspension was a severe enough punishment for kids to understand what they did wrong.

They touched your daughter's butt, so let them go to jail and be raped by the other prisoners.

That's justice alright.

and I find this whole thing ridiculous.

We have turned everything into an issue for the courts.

A lot of times there is the " rest of the story" in these cases, but its still hard to imagine what it could be that would justify criminal prosecution for pats on the behind.

Should I turn them in to the police? Should they go to jail? Should they be labeled as sex offenders for the rest of their lives?

This is insane!

i realize that most times teen boys assault teen girls and walk free -- indeed these scumbags defense is "other boys do it and get away w. it"

sorry it is not okay to hit girls, and it is esp. not okay to hit them on the ass and grab for their tits

these boys ARE sex offenders, it wasn't their buddies on the football team they smacked on the ass as a show of team spirit, it was the girls that they whacked on the ass to make sure the girls damn well know their place as objects w/out value or worth

everyone much above the age of 7 or so knows you don't go around hitting girls or hitting them on the ass, these boys already knew they were doing wrong, they simply did not care

after all only girls were hurt and they are of no value, even some of the girls themselves do not value themselves enough to know that they don't deserve to be smacked around by any male who feels like it

some time in juvenile detention for the assaults is called for, in my view

what if it was your daughter? or grand daughter? you would stand by, tell her to suck it up, and teach her it's okay to let her body be beat on by any random male who feels like it?

fuck that noise


what if we treated girls as equal to boys? then, yeah, sometimes boys who beat girls will pay a price -- isn't that what we want? equality?

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1185040507206380.xml&coll=7

It is six pages long, but rather informative. I suspect that reasonable people will form reasonable opinions after reading The Oregonian's indepth article.

I realize that asking people to read a six page article is a bit much, so here are two little snippets from the article:


"The two boys tore down the hall of Patton Middle School after lunch, swatting the bottoms of girls as they ran -- what some kids later said was a common form of greeting."


"The outlines of the case have been known. But confidential police reports and juvenile court records shed new light on the context of the boys' actions. The records show that other students, boys and girls, were slapping one another's bottoms. Two of the girls identified as victims have recanted, saying they felt pressured and gave false statements to interrogators."

this reasonable person would want to see not just the boys but the teachers, administrators, etc. at this school to pay a price

the description is that beating girls was accepted and routine, in other words, girls were being hazed like this every single day

of course a young girl will have no sense of self value after a prolonged attack like this

that is hardly an argument in the boys' favor, quite the reverse

they need to do some time to understand this is taken seriously and that, no, in our society, you don't say hello by beating people on the ass -- also we don't need to teach that it's okay to gang up and physically assault people, it ain't okay because it is MANY boys assaulting the girls, again, what if it was your daughter being "greeted" over and over again like this? and what she learns is that even you, the parent, will turn away, the teachers turn away, everyone turns away -- because only boys and their future is important, she is of no worth

certainly other ass slappers should be arrested and prosecuted as they are identified, everyone who participated in or in the case of adults closed their eyes to, this behavior needs to pay a price

You are reacting emotionally to this. I get that. You haven't read the article. I realize it is six pages long, but seriously, you're overreacting.

sorry what you're not getting is that we are talking about 13 year olds not 3 year olds

everyone who assaulted someone should pay a price

i am tired of violent creeps getting a free ride because "i was just joking, honey, can't you take a joke?" and anyway "as a male my future record is more important than yours"

See, two of the victims that day have confessed to doing the same behavior.

Clearly, despite the fact that McMinnville Public School district has a policy against this, the kids at that school were doing it. Including two of the victims.

It is clear by now that you haven't bothered to read the article in its entirety. You'd hang these two boys out to dry because some kids are real shitheads that turn into shitty adults.

I won't reply to your responses any longer. You're not thinking this through in any reasonable way. :hi:

Do they get a pass, or does it change your opinion on whether or not this was some kind of inappropriate game being played by both sexes at the school rather than a criminal pursuit?

n/t

...this does sound like a defense against felony charges.

Felony is more appropriate to injury or sexual harrassment. This behavior shouldn't be tolerated in school, but jail time?

If you absolutely must prosecute, doesn't some misdemeanor charge sound more reasonable?

"The disproportionality of the charges is absurd," said Phillip Esplin, a forensic psychologist who has researched child sex abuse for the National Institutes of Health.

"My question is, why this would constitute a sexual offense, as opposed to something inappropriate that should have been dealt with within the school -- not within the criminal justice system."

:thumbsup:

wishes that he'd been able to get the whole truth of the matter on the first day. The article that I've linked to says that the officer followed up with interviews (several days later) where quite a few of the kids said it was standard behavior by both boys and girls at the school. Two of the victims admitted to doing the same behavior.

It really sounds like the school has a problem and needs to teach its boys and girls some basic rules of society.

otherwise the cop would never give tickets for speeding or arrest people for smoking pot

Well put MissB...It sounds also as if the parents in this particular district also need to review some guidelines with their children about what is acceptable behavior. There is a serious problem if saying "hello" to someone by smacking their butt is standard.

this is nothing special to these boys, it is what prosecutors do, they ALWAYS pile on ridiculous charges so that the accused is motivated to make a deal

if you don't like the american justice system, fine, i agree, it stinks, it doesn't work, and it needs radical changes

however right now it is the only system we have and the alternative is to go back to the days when i was in school, when not just boys but teachers and administrators too were beating children for the sexual charge of it

they committed a crime, and now they have to pay a price, if they don't like the charges (which seems to be an accurate description of what happened, since your ass is definitely a private part you don't want strange boys and men slapping on YOUR daughter) then the parents and boys need to cut deals w. the prosecutors

they are guilty snd, again, "everybody else does it" isn't a defense in a criminal action

who said "The disproportionality of the charges is absurd."

You think 13 year old little boys, who pull each others fingers when they fart, and give each other wedgies need to become registered sex offenders when they misbehave in junior high school?

It's called acting like you're in junior high school for a reason.

Has everyone gone crazy?

> Has everyone gone crazy?

The evidence strongly suggests that a whole lot of people have. :( :( :(

Tesha

entire existence on earth for something they did when they were 13, especially when it's not one of the worst things out there in this world. It would be understandable if they'd killed someone or raped someone, but ass slapping is not rape, unwanted sexual advance, yes, but not rape.

in the case of these clueless clods, some time in juvenile detention to teach them that assault is serious business may save their ass in later life

a teacher in my parish went to prison for patting a girl on the ass -- not slapping, not slapping and beating regularly, not slapping and beaing regularly and getting his homies to do the same -- but one time patting a 15 yr old onm the ass over her clothes

i think the boys need to learn the lesson earlier rather than later if we really pretend that we give a damn about their future

boys who get away scot free w. hitting girls, who are taught that it's all in good fun to hit people who can't hit back -- those are the boys who grown into men with no future

the sex registry list is a different issue, i agree that once a person has done their time, they've done their time -- i suppose this is the ultimate evil of these lists, that "likable" abusers and batterers will skate free because judges/juries think being on the list is too harsb

According to the article that I linked to, "All told, Roache interviewed 14 students besides Cornelison and Mashburn. Seven confessed to bottom-swatting, including one girl who described it as "a handshake we do." Two of the alleged victims said they had swatted boys' buttocks themselves."

what part of "all" who commit assault should pay a price do you not get?

it is common to the point of cliche that violent people, sexually inappropriate behaving people, have themselves experienced the same abuse so they think it's "okay"

they need to learn it isn't okay

and quickly

Sexual assault? Have you ever considered lumping such comparitively unimportant behavior in with such a serious offense is really not appropriate?

and registration as sexual offenders are unlikely punishments in this case. At least the prosecutor is clueing in.

after fucking up so horrendously. These kids are just fucked just because they made the news, it doesn't really even matter anymore that they are prosecuted.

but that parents of the boys both look like they're sitting in the 10,000 dollar range for legal fees.

As a victim of an over-eager federal attorney myself, I know just how much this sucks. In 2004, I had close to 20,000 dollars in legal fees and I wasn't even charged with anything, I was just threatened with a charge. I was fortunate to have a very nice guy representing me who let me stretch my payments to him over several months but it still left my credit in shambles and has taken me 18 months to repair.

Who wants to be the parents that have to tell their kid "hey, we can't afford to send you to college because you smacked a girl on the ass that one time." Not me.

counts as ruining one's existance.

what makes these boys so special that the law that applies to the rest of us doesn't apply to them?

"what makes these boys so special that the law that applies to the rest of us doesn't apply to them"

I dunno, perhaps the difference is that they're 13 and we're (presumably) adults? But hey, if you think a 13 year prison sentence is appropriate for slapping someone on the butt, double plus good for you.

Should the girls who do that also (as mentioned in the article) be on the registered sex offenders list and spend 10 years in jail as well?

The kids should be punished, but putting them behind bars is just plain idiotic.

would you want them to have their entire existence on earth marred by being in the sexual offender registry for something they did at the age of 13?

yup...that makes it soooo cool! Boys can't help their natural born tendencies to molest, right?

You ever watch that MSNBC shit? Such normal, healthy young men. They can't help it. Thirteen year old girls are just asking for it.

We are all, men and women, degraded by such thinking.

You continue on your absolutist jihad about "the boys" and how we must make an example out of them. "Throw the book at them", you say. "Make an example out of them", you bray.

I think we all get it that you're a fundamentalist on this issue, a moralistic Taleban, if you will. MissB has more than once brought to your attention that there were GIRLS who said they participated in the same behavior. In fact, one of the girls who was swatted on her ass said she had done the same thing to a boy.

So what's it going to be? Should we lock the girls up as well? We can't have them turning into sexual predators, can we? Shouldn't they be taught that they can't treat our boys as pieces of meat?

If you're going to be a moralistic, absolutist prig, is it too much to at least expect some consistancy?

Jeez. Get a grip.

:wtf:

These are kids.

Cory Mashburn, 13, who has been charged with misdemeanor harassment and sexual abuse. (Courtesy of the Mashburn family)
link: http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3406214&page=1

If that wasn't planning on ruining their lives, then I can't think of what would be.

The only reason that the felony charges have been dropped is because reasonable people have spoken out loudly and the DA felt the pressure.

more likely to grow up as social and sexual retards because socially and sexual retarded adults decided this is a bit of mutual bum slapping is a high crime.

Only in Amerika :eyes:

The boys should be suspended from school.

This is a school discipline matter, not a criminal matter.

Do they really deserve to be branded as "sex offenders" for the rest of their lives for behavior they engaged in when they were 13? Should they have to have that stapled to every job application they turn in for the rest of their lives?

That's absurd. The two middle schoolers, Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden, who murdered five people in the Jonesbnoro, AR school shooting in 1997 are now out of jail with no criminal records at all. Now THAT is an outrage.

Because many are not taught that it isn't okay to do this. I think this suspension could've been easily rendered with a suspension. A criminal record will ruin their futures and probably increase their chances of committing further offenses.

I don't have a daughter, but if it were my little sister, I'd think a suspension is appropriate.

"these boys ARE sex offenders"

I guess you've never heard of a little thing called intent, eh?

I'm not surprised...



Now that we've heard from the lunatic, bloodthirsty fringe, back to our discussion...

Wish it would happen again.........

Suspend the boys and end it.......they're 13, and I bet they've learned their lesson. After this, they won't even look at a girl.

They should face consequences, but not criminal charges.

If they are going to use that registry for ridiculous things like this, it undermines the whole system.

This is beyond overreaction and is quite sad to see that this is the way things are now handled.

I think the boys need to be taught a strong lesson while they're young, since their behavior is inappropriate and they need to learn quickly why women shouldn't be treated in such ways, but jail and having to register as sex offenders is beyond absurd and just quite simply dumb. They should've been suspended and forced to comply with a sexual harassment type class prior to being allowed to return. I think that would've sufficed.

the parents apparently want nothing less than for the system to say it's okay and no crime is committed when girls are regularly hit on the ass, at school, as long as the boy laughs and says he is just joking around and "greeting" the girl

a plea was offered that didn't require registering as a sex offender (even though it's technically a sex offense), the plea was rejected

they are not entitled to any of our sympathy at this point, they want us to take the side of the bullies and the victimizers

me, i'll take the side of the victims, can you imagine being a girl who has to go to the school every day and face the slapping and the smacking?

I think an initial suspension followed by sexual harassment education is all that is required. In fact, I don't think the sexual harassment class should be limited to these two. It appears this type of contact was systemic at the school and done by both boys and girls there to each other. If I were the principal, I would recognize that this was not a criminal act of intention by 2 boys who had bad intention, but was instead an act of youth by kids who aren't truly comprehending why the behavior is wrong and were within a school culture in which the behavior had been allowed to occur regularly. I would then place a lot of the blame on myself and realize that the problem should never have become that common prior to being noticed, and that such awareness is a sign that some disciplinary and administrative failures occurred.

I would call the entire school staff together and have a meeting on being on the lookout for similar behaviors from others, and I would then hold a full school assembly with a guest speaker to talk about the importance of sexual harassment awareness.

That's all that should be done here. Jail, probation, registering as sex offenders, is all way over the top and deflecting away from the real problem; which is the fact that too much anti-social behavior happens in school and there isn't enough leadership and authority stepping up to steer these kids away from it.

I feel for the victims and the perpetrators here.

Repeating Myself:

What the fuck!! What the hell ever happened to..oh, more detention, maybe three day suspension, grounding for a month by their parents, no video games or after school fun for a month or...

These boys should not be on trial at all. Putting them on a sex offenders list is unconscionable. This is one of the grossest miscarriages of justice I've read about in a while. There are ways to deal with kid's bad behavior without the courts or the law being involved at all. Jesus fucking wept man...what a sham to put CHILDREN through this kind of crap. I am not saying that they shouldn't get in trouble. Whatever happened to being sent to the principal and then getting grounded. We are dealing with KIDS. Now they want to lock them somewhere where they might be raped and they will definitely come out worse. You only learn BAD in jail.

This is child abuse, in my opinion and I am every bit as much a Children's Advocate as I am a feminist. Grrr...such stupidity. If we aren't going to treat children any differently than we do adults let's just be honest and remove "Child Status" and we can call ourselves uncivilized and stupid.
Lee

Oregon is very tough on inappropriate sexual activity, very tough. It comes from when the far left meets the far right. The far left wants zero tolerance on sexual harrassment of kids. Fair enough. The far right wants to lock everybody up.

So what we get is zero tolerance with some of the strictest punishments in the country.

It is nuts. But that's why some folks warn about moderation.

The kids hopefully will have to have some kind of sensitivity training and a deferred prosecution where all charges will be dropped if they comply. That is probably fair, as I would be horrified if my sons were slapping girls' butts at school when they were 13. In fact, most middle schools have a hands off policy for exactly this reason.

for zero tolerance. I find that somewhat ironic. I think this is a classic case of folks who think kids are "little adults" who are supposed to ACT like adults and act shocked when those kids don't act like adults.

The far left here is generally more the anarchist type than the feminist type. In Oregon, the left voice that is heard in Salem is more the feminist type. We were one of the first states to outlaw meth ingredients, things like that. We're the classic nanny state Dems, although we do have an abundance of the anarchist types too. I'm just saying how we end up with this kind of thing, it's when a certain brand of far left meets a certain brand of far right. There are people on the right who would be angry that the feminists were villainizing all male boys too.

I stand by my opinion that this is not boys being boys. Slapping girls on the butt is outrageous and would never have been tolerated 30 years ago or 50 or 100, and shouldn't be tolerated now. Which doesn't mean it's necessarily a crime.

The other thing I find somewhat Ironic is that everyone who is so quick to punish these boys are ignoring the fact that the girls also participated in the exact same activity, and haven't been punished, or threatened to be punished, yet.

ON EDIT: Another thing I find somewhat ironic, if you noticed, on this thread, the feminists are calling for moderation as well. I think its authoritarians, of whatever stripe, right wing, left wing, etc. who are the problem, the specific political positions of these folks doesn't seem to matter.

It's not appropriate behavior and even if they wanted to make a case that it's "kids being kids", it's absolutely not appropriate in school. Maybe if they were doing it among their close friends and everyone else was alright with it, but this is school and school is supposed to be a place where kids should be able to learn without unwanted harassment.

That said, a criminal record will probably end up making kids commit further offenses because their lives will be ruined by it. Criminal punishment needs to be reserved for those who are actually dangerous. These kids are 13, and there is plenty of time to teach them a lesson before getting the justice system involved. Suspension and sensitivity training are, IMO, the perfect remedy.

BTW, I watched other kids do this when I was 13. I knew absolutely that it wasn't appropriate, but the other kids really didn't. I know many of these kids now, and they didn't grow up to be dangerous sex offenders. Somewhere along the way I think they learned that they have to respect women.

:applause: :applause:
This is child abuse, in my opinion and I am every bit as much a Children's Advocate as I am a feminist.

I am a feminist, but these are childern.

Which is what the system has to do. That's the main problem with our seemingly endless need for absolute control.

Like you said, you talk to the kids. However, there is still too much left to chance doing that, so you use the increasing powers of the state to expand the sphere of influence.

I'm not a parent, I'm a guy, and when I was younger I had my ass slapped a few times by some girls, although I never responded in kind. So I'm not sure what the answer is, but it can't be this. Well, it can be, it just depends on where you want to take this experiment called life.

I remember going thru a phase when I was 8 or 9 years old, where I would smack boys's butts--generally my older brother's friends. I was just an obnoxious little girl looking for attention........
But sex offender? I didn't even have a clue.

,

But to think that they instinctively know how to act or how to deal with them is ridiculous. Also, as the article mentions, a lot of the kids at that school would swat others butts like that, inlcuding girl. Should the entire school be prosecuted and put on the sex offenders' list? Because that's what should happen if these boys are put through that.

They physically assaulted girls in their school and need to learn that it is absolutely unacceptable. Will this kid grow up to be a sexual threat to women? I don't know - he seems to show absolutely no remorse and even says that it's just a greeting and no big deal. I have some issues with the sex offenders list though and I don't know if this particular crime warrants that.

Slapping friends on the butt whom you know won't mind it, slapping teammates' butts as part of a male-bonding sports ritual or whatever that is, and slapping unsuspecting girls' butts in the hall are different things. If she didn't like it, it was wrong. If you don't absolutely know she'll like it, you don't do it. Period.

Not prosecuted.

I'd have to know more than I am seeing in the article to know how I'd judge that for sure. I agree that it at least doesn't sound like a felony.

I think it would be over the top. They should be disciplined, and they were, by the school and their parents, but anything more in this context is excessive, I believe.

I guess we'll just have to disagree

Have you ever considered people are real victims of real sexual might not take kindly to having someone throw that serious charge around with something comparatively minor?

that's just plain bullshit. There are different degrees of many crimes. This is real sexual assault - it's just of a lesser degree than some other sexual assaults. I agree that it certainly doesn't seem like a felony or worthy of making these kids registered sex offenders, but it is a real assault and should be taken seriously.

Smacking girls on the butt is clearly a sexually aggressive behavior, as is poking girls in the breast (as both boys admitted doing). If you were to go up to a woman on the street and do the same thing, it would be prosecutable, certainly as a misdemeanor.

That said, the police involvement seems totally absurd here, imo (unless these specific kids had been previously/repeatedly dealt with by the school and refused to change their behavior, which doesn't seem to be the case). And I think almost everyone here agrees that jail time and offender registration is beyond the pale ...

not just these boys.

I'd have to say that the punishment should come from the school - since the problems clearly start there. Both boys and girls were doing this - despite it being against the school's policies. Seems like the school needs to do something here to nix the unacceptable behavior.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1185040507206380.xml&coll=7

Some choice snippets:

"The two boys tore down the hall of Patton Middle School after lunch, swatting the bottoms of girls as they ran -- what some kids later said was a common form of greeting."

"The outlines of the case have been known. But confidential police reports and juvenile court records shed new light on the context of the boys' actions. The records show that other students, boys and girls, were slapping one another's bottoms. Two of the girls identified as victims have recanted, saying they felt pressured and gave false statements to interrogators."

"All told, Roache interviewed 14 students besides Cornelison and Mashburn. Seven confessed to bottom-swatting, including one girl who described it as "a handshake we do." Two of the alleged victims said they had swatted boys' buttocks themselves."

which is why I'd have to be there and talk to them for me to personally be able to judge the situation.

But it isn't uncommon for girls who are treated in a sexually aggressive manner to later recant, even if they were telling the truth in the first place, so I'm not sure how to feel about that.

Repeating Myself:

What the fuck!! What the hell ever happened to..oh, more detention, maybe three day suspension, grounding for a month by their parents, no video games or after school fun for a month or...

These boys should not be on trial at all. Putting them on a sex offenders list is unconscionable. This is one of the grossest miscarriages of justice I've read about in a while. There are ways to deal with kid's bad behavior without the courts or the law being involved at all. Jesus fucking wept man...what a sham to put CHILDREN through this kind of crap. I am not saying that they shouldn't get in trouble. Whatever happened to being sent to the principal and then getting grounded. We are dealing with KIDS. Now they want to lock them somewhere where they might be raped and they will definitely come out worse. You only learn BAD in jail.

This is child abuse, in my opinion and I am every bit as much a Children's Advocate as I am a feminist. Grrr...such stupidity. If we aren't going to treat children any differently than we do adults let's just be honest and remove "Child Status" and we can call ourselves uncivilized and stupid.
Lee

but kids do commit crimes. I'd have to talk to the kids involved to get a feel for whether it should be handled by the schools or if they should have juvenile misdemeanor charges. It would depend upon how long it had been going on, whether this was some kind of ongoing ritualized hazing thing where they intended to make the girls feel intimidated, or if this was a one-off thing where they were just curious about how girls would react when their butts got slapped. The first circumstance would warrant charges, the second would warrant detention or maybe suspension depending on specifics.

But I don't see any way it could be a felony or warrant putting the kids on a sex offender list, so I guess we agree to that extent.

Of course kids do commit crimes but what ever happened to parents and the principal? I think a good talking to and grounding would suffice. I am every bit as much a Children's Advocate as I am a feminist. I don't think sending these boys some place they could be raped is right. You might as well just toss them in the trash. Personally, I would NOT write them off as "trash" and "un-salvageable" quite yet. Of course, I'm one of those wacky bleeding hearts types.

Lee

Did someone say that?

I don't see how jail could be warranted. I don't think they're "trash" or "unsalvageable". Did anyone say that either? I haven't read the whole thread.

But if this was some kind of ongoing thing where they were deliberately harassing and intimidating the girls in that class, I absolutely think it warrants *juvenile misdemeanor* charges. If it wasn't, then I have no idea why the school called the police in the first place.

Depending on the specifics, a good talking to and a grounding might very well suffice. But if they were intentionally intimidating the girls in that school on an ongoing basis, then I could see them going to a juvenile court and having a reasonable penalty - not jail, not being on a sex offender list - but there are other lesser penalties available.

the criminal-injustice system can't even handle adult crime worth shit.

It's totally unsuitable for this kind of thing.

When I was a kid there would have been an assembly, a couple of knowledgeable psychologists familiar with this sort of not atypical behavior would have been brought in to explain why it is inappropriate in that time or place...in the school setting.

Then each teacher would have talked to their class about what happened, The class would have discussed why it was inappropriate behavior and would then work together to come up with solutions.

But now, in this authoritarian wet dream of a sexually repressed nightmare country...it's zero tolerance, call the fucking cops, jail time (WHICH THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN SUBJECTED TO!!!) and being threatened by an overzealous DA with a lifetime stigma on the overcrowded "sex offenders list"...

Fuck that!!!

get busy building large maximum security prisons for all of these little boy sex offenders.

You know, the ones who misbehave at school, like the little boys they are.

Might as well just get rid of the principal's office. What's that for?

I hope you read my posts. Doing this to these children constitutes child abuse, in my opinion. I cannot believe so many here are totally willing to throw these boy's lives away.

Lee

:pals:

:hug:

Lee

I'm a woman and a feminist. Are you? I think this is child abuse. There are better ways to deal with CHILDREN. What happened to grounding. Sorry but I am every bit as much a Children's Advocate as I am a feminist and I think this is unconscionable.
Lee

They shouldn't have touched the girls. The girls shouldn't have touched the boys either. But I doubt that anyone was scarred for life here, except for two 13-year old boys who spent five days in jail.

I can't believe that we've come to this. Good thing that the government is building all those prisons. We're gonna need 'em.

At least I had to laugh about a couple of the hysterical responses. I mean, let's castrate the little bastards while we're at it, right?

If touching girls' butt is okay, why isn't okay to touch their breasts, Huh?

You think they don't know better? You would be fooled. All they do is a dry run. They will be more aggressive next time if this butt touching thing were not stopped.

These kids need to be severely punished for bad behaviors.

Five days in jail is appropriate.

Each of them should be fined hundreds of dollars too. Let them learn a hard lesson that they would never forget.

And democrats should never defend bad behaviors like these.

defending the behavior.

There is also no way these boys have watched more porn than me.

good one!

i think we should execute them now, head it off at the pass

:eyes:

What the fuck!! What the hell ever happened to..oh, more detention, maybe three day suspension, grounding for a month by their parents, no video games or after school fun for a month or...

These boys should not be on trial at all. Putting them on a sex offenders list is unconscionable. This is one of the grossest miscarriages of justice I've read about in a while. There are ways to deal with kid's bad behavior without the courts or the law being involved at all. Jesus fucking wept man...what a sham to put CHILDREN through this kind of crap. I am not saying that they shouldn't get in trouble. Whatever happened to being sent to the principal and then getting grounded. We are dealing with KIDS. Now they want to lock them somewhere where they might be raped and they will definitely come out worse. You only learn BAD in jail.

This is child abuse, in my opinion and I am every bit as much a Children's Advocate as I am a feminist. Grrr...such stupidity. If we aren't going to treat children any differently than we do adults let's just be honest and remove "Child Status" and we can call ourselves uncivilized and stupid.
Lee

this sort of sexist horseshit has to stop.

We're talking about children and ruining their entire lives. I actually am a woman and a feminist. I am also a Children's Advocate and this is beyond a miscarriage of justice. What ever happened to grounding them and talking to them. Jesus fucking wept. We're talking about kids. Get a grip. You're not even a woman. You want these boys to go somewhere they might be RAPED? You want them on a sex offenders list so their ENIRE lives will be ruined. You really think they should be basically just thrown away at 13? Wow, nazi much.
Lee

Not old enough to choose to have sex, but old enough to choose to be sex offenders, apparently.

the ass grabbing is just a prelude to passing them over for promotions because they have vaginas. Without ass grabbing, no glass ceiling. It's symptomatic of a greater problem, the routine dismissal of women as human beings.

I daresay that these boys shouldn't get charged as adults, but rather as juveniles. Let them go to juvenile hall. No sex offender list, either. But let's put them into an institution until they're 18. Maybe that will put the fear of the law into all the others.

You may HAVE daughters but I am a daughter and a Children's Advocate. If ass-slapping gets Juvenile Detention until they are 18 something really sucks. ...and I don't know where you got the idea they do not have sexual predators in juvenile. Our, (Texas), youth commission is in the middle of being investigated and overhauled because there was so much RAPE in the juvenile jails. Give me a fucking break.

Let's just send them to the principal, give them detention, talk to them seriously, give them three days suspension and ground them for a month. They are CHILDREN for christ's sake. I don't know what little fascist fantasy you live in but the world I live in treats children as children. They were in the womb 13 years ago for god's sake.

Lee

they should be in jail till they were 18?

unless by superb you really meant dumb as ditch water.

and how if someone creates one, you don't have to address it.

slapping boys on the ass as well, I just asked you if you believe your own daughter should be treated equally to these girls. Since you made your daughter the equivalent to the victim, can't you do the same if she were the so called perp?

wanting to lock up society.

No intervention, just throw everyone in prison.

How about we execute them?

It's cheaper than housing them you know.

Fucking repuke mentality.Rule by fear,not love and guidance and any attempt to actually communicate. :puke:

or have you got some sort of magical approach.

Fear of failure.
Fear of going to jail.
Fear of disappointing others.

etc.

You're talking instilling a fear that isn't there for something they haven't done and probably never will.

Here's my magical approach:Try actually communicating with your kids instead of treating them like potential Ted Bundy's. :think:

One or two boys go to jail for ass grabbing and the message will be heard. My wife is a filmmaker and she has to put up with all sorts of sexist crap all the time. It'd be nice, real nice, if women were just treated like people once in a while. I'm just sick and tired of it.

These boys need to learn quite a bit about personal space, but labelling thenm sex offenders is just insane.

if I grabbed a random woman's ass in Central Park, I would be a registered sex offender so fast it would make your head spin. Why should we allow children to assault one another (oh it was just a fight), sexually assault one another (just an ass grabbing... why didn't she just slap him), terrorize one another (stand up to bullies... bullies just need love and help)... it's all so very stupid. Enough's enough. Lock these little assholes up.

The ass slapping (not grabbing) was widespread and included both genders.

what the hell do you want from me? You want me to read the story? Like I have time for that.

Fascist. I cannot believe you have no problem ruining these CHILDREN'S lives. THAT is sick and unconscionable.
Lee

wrecking their lives?

I'll address the manifest sins of womanhood next if you'll only pay attention and follow my posts.

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

from the bloodthirsty lunatic fringe...(shudder)

Now, back to our reasonable discourse...

... sometimes I really miss common sense.

For gawd's sake, why do people have to make giant federal case out of everything? Why can't we just deal with obnoxious kid behavior without losing perspective entirely?

I got my share of pinches when I was that age. Sometimes I smacked the perp, and sometimes I just let it slide. Either way, I certainly didn't consider myself the victim of major wrongdoing, and I really wouldn't say I've been scarred for life.


I mean, sheesh...


:eyes:

First a 17 year old is put in jail for having consensual oral sex with a 15 year old girl. Now two 13 year olds are arrested and could potentially be required to register as a sex offender for slapping girls on the ass. When I was 13 I did this kind of thing, my and my friends used to try to get some of the girls in our class to flash us. Where's these boys commutation?

Or not.

in the fact that the large majority of people who have posted in this thread have sided with those who aren't supporting calling out the lynch mob.

Pity the rest.

I was at a party and bunch of us girls were upstairs and we threw a bunch of pairs of frozen panties down on the boy's heads. OH GOD, I AM A SEX OFFENDER. OH NO. I SHOULD BE ON A LIST SOMEWHERE. I am evil. Throw me away.

Lee