Flag-defiling charge ends in fight, arrests

ASHEVILLE, NC — A couple who said they were protesting the state of the country by flying the U.S. flag upside down with signs pinned to it found themselves in jail following a scuffle with a deputy Wednesday morning.

Mark and Deborah Kuhn were arrested on two counts of assault on a government employee, resisting arrest and a rarely used charge, desecrating an American flag, all misdemeanors. The Kuhns were released from custody Wednesday afternoon

“This is surreal,” Deborah Kuhn, 52, said moments after her son Mark Stidham paid $1,500 bond to get the couple out of jail.

Arrest reports show Buncombe County Sheriff’s deputy Brian Scarborough went to the Kuhns’ home on 68 Brevard Road about 8:45 a.m. Wednesday to investigate a complaint of an American flag on display after being desecrated.

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770725118

Hopefully, the resisting charges are false and will be dropped.

They're fully within their right to fly the flag upside down.

If anybody was disobedient, it's this cop, and he was hardly being civil about it either.

even if you just sit there ... not moving, not getting up and walking with them ... that can be called "resisting arrest" ... by not physically co-operating ...

That "broke the glass on his hand" story stinks to high heaven. The cop had no cause to break in to their home so he's making up a story. I find it hard to believe they simultaneously "slammed the door on his hand" AND broke the glass pane causing a cut on his hand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you are obligated to produce your papers to the police when they come knocking on your door. By the police spokesman's own description of the altercation, the people were ALREADY in the home when this took place. Once the people refused ID the policeman should have left and returned to the station to swear out a warrant. What business does the deputy have forcing his way in to their home and forcing an altercation? .....or placing himself in a position to block them from closing their door if they did, in fact, slam the door on his hand?

If someone in my house hits the panic button on the burglar alarm, the cops can come busting in.

Similarly, if someone signals distress some other way-- for example, flying a flag upside down-- the cops can come on in. Presumably, to effect a rescue of who ever is in distress.

At least, that's how I would argue it if I were the cops' lawyer.

I hope the cop is stupid enough to use that lame excuse. Should they charge him with perjury for the false report or the false testimony in court?........ Seeing as though he already reported he knew there was no danger prior to the forced entry. According to the report, the only reason he busted in to the house was because they refused to produce their papers.

Or do you believe Deputies, as a matter of normal procedure, carry a copy of the rarely used flag desecration statute on wellness calls?



From the link in the OP:
>>>>>>According to the Sheriff’s Office, Scarborough went to the Kuhns’ home and gave Mark Kuhn a copy of the flag desecration statute. Scarborough told the Kuhns the flag was being displayed illegally.<<<<<<<<<<

Perhaps even acting outside the legitimate bounds of their job.

It turns out the mysterious complainant was a national guard acquaintance of the deputy.........AND the deputy was acting outside regular dispatch procedures by "handling it" on his own. Just as I suspected, they tried the city cops first. When the city declined to get involved, the freepers found a "friend" in the county sheriff's police.

Is there any doubt this motherfucker deputy lied about getting his hand slammed in the door? BTW, the neighbor witnessed the altercation and corroborates the victim's story. Oh, and had the deputy handled this through dispatch, and not listened to the fucking fascist NG buddy, he would have known the law was found unconstitutional - twice.

Fucking pigs.


http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770726111

"A Buncombe County sheriff’s deputy acting on a complaint from a fellow National Guardsman issued the charge Wednesday at the Brevard Road home of Mark and Deborah Kuhn."

snip

The Sheriff’s Office will conduct an internal review to determine whether the Deputy Brian Scarborough was right in personally taking action on the complaint, Sheriff Van Duncan said. The usual procedure is to refer the complaint to Asheville police, he said.

snip........(Radford is the deputy's pal who complained)

Radford said he first noticed the Kuhns’ flag July 20 driving to and from the National Guard unit headquarters. Radford said he is not friends with Scarborough but knows him as a soldier and from seeing him on patrol near the unit headquarters. Radford said Scarborough is not in his unit.

“I’m all about free speech … and to have all of this stuff in his yard, that would be fine. Nobody really cares,” Radford said. “But when you take the American flag … to do that, it’s illegal, but personally, it was disrespectful. I was like, ‘Man, too many people have served under that flag.’”

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
more at the link

emphasis mine....all about free speech.....:rofl:

I hope they bust the NG member if it was, in fact, him that showed up IN UNIFORM to hassle these people at THEIR HOME.

(Gallegos v. Haggerty, Northern District of New York, 689 F. Supp. 93).
http://www.wcdd.com/bananarepublics/essay.html

And:

"{S}ince it is the present policy of the Department of Justice to remove to the federal courts all suits in state courts against federal officers for trespass or false imprisonment, a claim for relief, whether based on state common law or directly on the Fourth Amendment, will ultimately be heard in a federal court." Brief for Respondents 13 (citations omitted); see 28 U.S.C. 1442 (a); Willingham v. Morgan, 395 U.S. 402 (1969). In light of this, it is difficult to understand our Brother BLACKMUN'S complaint that our holding today "opens the door for another avalanche of new federal cases." Post, at 430. In estimating the magnitude of any such "avalanche," it is worth noting that a survey of comparable actions against state officers under 42 U.S.C. 1983 found only 53 reported cases in 17 years (1951-1967) that survived a motion to dismiss. Ginger & Bell, Police Misconduct Litigation - Plaintiff's Remedies, 15 Am. Jur. Trials 555, 580-590 (1968). Increasing this figure by 900% to allow for increases in rate and unreported cases, every federal district judge could expect to try one such case every 13 years.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=403&invol=388

Bivens-type actions under state constitutions--will Tennessee give you a remedy?

Bivens-type actions under state constitutions--will Tennessee give you a remedy?
University of Memphis Law Review, The, Winter 2000 by Chism, Lance R
<< Page 1 Continued from page 8. Previous | Next

V. THE CURRENT STATUS OF STATE BIVENS TYPE ACTIONS IN TENNESSEE AND A SUGGESTED APPROACH FOR THE FUTURE

A. The Current Status Tennessee has become one of the most liberal states in

affording its citizens greater protection under its constitution than the federal constitution.158 In fact, Tennessee is one of eight states that relies upon independent state grounds in over half of its cases.159 One year after Justice Brennan's influential law review article, State Constitutions and the Protection of Individual Rights, Tennessee Supreme Court Justice Martha Craig Daughtrey cited Justice Brennan in encouraging the Tennessee Supreme Court to take a more active role in protecting its citizens.160 Despite this background, the Tennessee Supreme Court has not addressed the issue of awarding damages for violations of its state constitution. The Tennessee Court of Appeals, however, joined the Texas and Oregon Supreme Courts and became one of only three states that have refused to imply a damage remedy.161

In Lee v. Ladd,162 Ms. Lee alleged that a Nashville police officer had violated her Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment rights under the United States Constitution and parallel rights under the Tennessee Constitution by illegally impounding her vehicle.163 Ms. Lee brought an action for damages against the officer under 1983 and, citing Bivens, argued that she was entitled to damages under the Tennessee Constitution.164 The Tennessee Court of Appeals stated that "e have held . . . in prior cases that we know of no authority for the recovery of damages for a violation of the Tennessee Constitution by a state officer."165 The court then noted that "(s]o far as we are able to determine, the Tennessee courts have not extended the rationale of Bivens to give a state cause of action against a police officer for violating a person's civil rights."166 The court, however, never addressed the issue of state immunity.

B. A Suggested Approach

It is true that the drafters of the 1796 and 1835 Tennessee Constitutions did not leave any clues as to whether they intended for civil damages to be awarded for violations of the state constitution. 167 This absence of constitutional history, however, should not have ended the court of appeals's inquiry. While two other states have taken the lack of "historical basis for implying a right to damages for constitutional violations" to be a good reason not to award damages,168 this view ignores the teachings of Bivens.

According to Givens, courts can imply remedies for constitutional violations regardless of whether the legislature has spoken or whether the Constitution or the debates surrounding its adoption suggest that damages should be awarded. "Of course, the Fourth Amendment does not in so many words provide for its enforcement by an award of money damages for the consequences of its violation. But . . . federal courts may use any available remedy to make good the wrong done."169

More:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3843/is_200001/ai_n8881010/pg_9

the whole thing is a waste of police and court time. They should have been released without charge. God forbid Dubya pulls out of Iraq and Al Qaida follows the troops home, then the Deputy would actually have something to do.

on edit:the 'crime' occurred on Wednesday afternoon = slow day for the LEO. Sounds like he didn't have anything better to do.

How deranged is that lame-ass excuse? You actually think dissident political expression is equivalent to a burglar alarm going off? Read the Constitution much? Thought not. Fuck those "patriotic" home invaders and all the cowards who try to justify that sort of police state action. That must be one of the most bizarre attempts to justify fascism I've seen so far. Maybe you should get in line to replace Gonzo.

Cops have an OBLIGATION to respond to what they believe is a distress signal.

HOWEVER...

By attaching a note to the flag explaining why it was upside down, that excuse has been negated.

It is not fascism to respond to an alarm, whether it be from your ADT system or an upside-down flag.

HOWEVER, once it became clear to the officers WHY the flag was upside-down, it DID become fascism.

You should know me well enough by now to know that I don't condone fascism.

Your response was thoughtless, uncalled for and needlessly harsh.

Any day now...

Do as your told, Sheep. Kick and Nom. The Kuhn's are true American Hero's.

again as long as I live; upside down or not. Just goes to show how we no longer live in America.

The Constitution has been destroyed.

The tiny peson behind the sign is my daughter.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Like the old muddy torn flags washed away in the Katrina hurricane. My neighbor flys his flag all the time in rain, sun, wind and it sure is a dirty rag now. Because you see, after all...it is made of cloth...so now they're glad rags.

But nice try. :thumbsup:

The focus of your energy should not be the American flag, it should be those that attempt to turn it into a 'Dirty Rag'.

Peace.

attempt?.........whatever dude, its all over now.

Since it's so intolerable?

these are middle class white people that the cop exercised gestapo tactics against.

the average suburban person will be able to identify with this pair.

Interesting.

They are Ron Paulers.

Not liberal hippie types, but disgruntled Republican types.

Police state tactics used on Ron Paul supporters. Don't look now, but I believe that our little group of "do not trust the government" people is going to get a lot bigger real quick.

As much as I disagree with Ron Paul's libertarian economic ideas, I have to say that his candidacy is doing the movement against Goerge Bush and his Constitution-shredding cronies a lot of good.

I hate to use that term but there it is. Fucking pigs.

I wonder who the chicken-hawk in fatigues was? It sounds like he made a call to the locals; when they decided to make an arrest, he squawked to the county pig. It's interesting that the county has no record of a call as their deputy was "on duty when someone approached him." More like approached him at the local nazi/kkk picnic. 5 bucks says the freeper and the county pig are pals.

And if you believe the pane of glass broke on this pig's hand while they were closing the door, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. How do you simultaneously "slam the door on a hand" while breaking the glass AND cut said hand with glass? Something stinks here. I smell some 'testilying.'

I love it! Gonzo's forte. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That's a creation of Alan Dershowitz.


http://www.constitution.org/lrev/dershowitz_test_981201.htm


Testimony of Alan M. Dershowitz

House of Representatives Judiciary Committee

December 1, 1998

My name is Alan M. Dershowitz and I have been teaching criminal law at Harvard Law School for 35 years. I have also participated in the litigation — especially at the appellate level — of hundreds of federal and state cases, many of them involving perjury and the making of false statements. I have edited a casebook on criminal law and have written 10 books and hundreds of articles dealing with subjects relating to the issues before this committee. It is an honor to have been asked to share my experience and expertise with you all here today.

For nearly a quarter century, I have been teaching, lecturing and writing about the corrosive influences of perjury in our legal system, especially when committed by those whose job it is to enforce the law, and ignored — or even legitimized — by those whose responsibilities it is to check those who enforce the law.

On the basis of my academic and professional experience, I believe that no felony is committed more frequently in this country than the genre of perjury and false statements. Perjury during civil depositions and trials is so endemic that a respected appellate judge once observed that "experienced lawyers say that, in large cities, scarcely a trial occurs in which some witness does not lie." He quoted a wag to the effect that cases often are decided "according to the preponderance of perjury."<1> Filing false tax returns and other documents under pains and penalties of perjury is so rampant that everyone acknowledges that only a tiny fraction of offenders can be prosecuted. Making false statements to a law enforcement official is so commonplace that the Justice Department guidelines provide for prosecution of only some categories of this daily crime. Perjury at criminal trials is so common that whenever a defendant testifies and is found guilty, he has presumptively committed perjury.<2> Police perjury in criminal cases - particularly in the context of searches and other exclusionary rule issues - is so pervasive that the former police chief of San Jose and Kansas City has estimated that "hundreds of thousands of law-enforcement officers commit felony perjury every year testifying about drug arrests" alone.<3>

In comparison with their frequency, it is likely that false statement crimes are among the most under-prosecuted in this country. Though state and federal statutes carry stringent penalties for perjury, few perjurers ever actually are subjected to those penalties. As prosecutor E. Michael McCann has concluded, "Outside of income tax evasion, perjury is…probably the most underprosecuted crime in America."<4> Moreover, there is evidence that false statements are among the most selectively prosecuted of all crimes, and that the criteria for selectivity bears little relationship to the willfulness or frequency of the lies, the certainty of the evidence or any other neutral criteria relating to the elements of perjury or other false statement crimes. Professor Richard H. Underwood, the Spears-Gilbert Professor of Law at the University of Kentucky's law school, writes that:

more often, the law has been invoked for revenge, or for the purpose of realizing some political end (the very base reason that lies are sometimes told!), or for the purpose of nabbing a criminal who might otherwise be difficult to nab, or, dare I say it, for the purpose of gaining some tactical advantage. Proving that perjury was committed, or that a "false statement" or a "false claim" was made, may be an easier, or a more palatable, brief for the prosecution.<5>

more at link......

He also passes himself off as a holocaust expert with no basis in fact. Also pursues vendettas against people who he has deemed to have slighted him.

Total RW nut-job, no wonder he's an expert on perjury.

Is that link his statement in connection with the Clinton impeachment run-up at all?

Dershowitz HAS taken several positions I don't agree with but he makes a lot of good points on perjury......especially when it comes to public officials - like police.

That's the one I mean, he interfered with DePaul Univ. decision on a couple of academics' tenure appointments. One was Pol. Sci. prof. Norman Finkelstein. Both professors had tenure witheld.

sry if I'm a bit ragged but it's early in the a.m. here.

...has been around forever, just ask any (momentarily) honest big-city cop or criminal lawyer, defense or prosecution.

I almost hate to keep bringing this up, the Kuhns, for flying their own flag in the manner they see fit, have spent more time in jail than Scooter Libby did for exposing an intelligence asset during wartime.

Because as far as I know, there is no federal law against the desecration of the flag. Not yet, anyways.

If there were, then every bozo who takes an American flag and puts it on his car (you don't see those any more, do you?) and leaves it out in the rain or ripped to shreds would be prosecutable.

I do believe that adding symbols to the flag is considered a no-no in the flag code, but flying it upside-down is a symbol of distress.

Then there is this:



Clearly a violation of the flag code.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.














More:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2914559


Silent flag protest raises outcry

To this day, they just can't accept Supreme Court decisions that they don't agree with.

What was that Faulkner said about the South? “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”

The newspaper won't even report that their state flag laws have TWICE been held unconstitutional- so I guess it's no wonder so many remain ignorant.

costing communities big money that they could be spending on other things.

Most of my family lives in North Carolina, so unfortunately, I see firsthand how it is there.

Not too long back, my nephew graduated from NC State- and at commencement, sure enough, there was a denominational Christian prayer- sounded Southern Babtist- though I could say exactly.

This despite the fact that it's also been ruled unconstitutional- and there were quite a few Hindu, Moslem (and likely Catholic and Jewish) people sitting around us.