The Tillman affair is extraordinarily dangerous for *bush

He CANNOT "executive privilege" himself out of a murder rap- and from all indications this is how it could end up. He can try, but I've got a dollar here that says he won't succeed- some things are simply too important to allow such a blatant cover-up to go forward for too long. The truth will out. In this case it must, and I have a feeling it will.

We may yet get our wish, boys and girls. George "The Decider" *bush behind bars for life- or perhaps even on death row, convicted of conspiracy to commit murder AND accessory to murder.

I REALLY like the sound of that.

Defend him (AND his merry band of co-conspirators) against THAT, Gonzo. If you think you can...

(Note: I do not intend this post to make me appear to relish the death of Mr. Tillman, nor do I intend it to in any way exacerbate his mother and father's grief.)

On edit: Perhaps this should not have been a new thread- the mods may move it to this thread at their discretion. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1455809

:shrug: If it's a murder then some other soldier gets the trial and media attention.

Am I missing something?

Do you think that's something one would do if they were innocent? By his very act of making this claim it makes him part and parcel of a conspiracy to commit murder, and therefore he becomes an accessory, probably both before AND after the fact.

If anything is proven, it is something he cannot now sidestep. He involved himself when he stepped in.

aspect of this, as well. Why on earth would he claim executive privilege on something that should be a matter for the military to handle - and accept blame for if they botched the investigation? It strongly implies that he knows something he doesn't want to divulge. Or is he claiming it on behalf of the armed forces? Are they part of the executive branch that he can cover by claiming executive privilege any time something unsavory comes up? I just don't get it. If it were a simple case of friendly fire, why wouldn't they have just said that in the first place and let it go at that? Accidents happen in every war so it doesn't seem like it should be something covered up to this degree if that were indeed what the situation was.

Rumsfeld, Cheney and others higher ups for major political propaganda.
This is just the least of what we know for sure.

It is possible, for example, that the White House was notified that Tillman had been shot, that the public relations office (i.e., Rove et al) issued a press release with a story that sounded good before knowing the details, and then rather than be caught in a blatant lie, upon learning the truth, simply conspired to continue their lie. While that might or might not be a crime in terms of a Criminal Code, it would bare in a most grotesque fashion, the crassness and total political motivation of the Bush administration. This they could not afford on top of everything else.

If the Bush administration covered up the crime itself, they could be considered to have obstructed justice, however, I do not know how that charge plays out in the Military Code, or even, since the president is the commander in chief, whether that would be considered a criminal act. Most people would be completely disgusted to learn that anyone in the Bush administration lied about what happened to Pat Tillman for any reason no matter how close the liars are or were to Bush and Rove. It is shocking that Pat Tillman's parents have had to struggle to learn the truth. It is even more shocking that the person who shot Tillman has not been punished for the military equivalent of manslaughter if not for murder.

Of course, the nature of the wound makes this look like it could have been a firing squad type of assassination. Other explanations are also possible, but an organized assassination cannot be ruled out considering the cover up. If this was just some stressed out soldier's mistake or crime of passion or momentary anger, then why the cover up.

Rumsfeld would be accountable under Military Code, all others involved in the conspiracy to
use Tillmans death for political propaganda knowing the the real truth of his death would be
accessories to the fact and could be held accountable by the Rico Act.

It doesn't really matter if it was a hit or not, which would be another crime.

Rumsfeld was well known for his micro-management so we know or can assume within a reasonable
doubt that he had his dirty fingers and orders passed within the chain of command.
The three star general would have definitely talked to his superiors on such a high profile
individual such as Tillman who had been such a boom to recruitment and the war in Iraq.

Thanks!I was missing something :hi:

I want to read up on just that.

google is your friend



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003788310_webtillman13.html

I had forgotten that Commander AWOL's republicon cabal of chickenhawks were claiming "Executive Privilenge" to prevent Tillman's family, and the rest of America, learn the truth about his murder...

That is so evil. So cowardly of the republicons.

What lame excuse could they possibly have?

I would definitely press this point...this shameful point.



White House Rebuffs Congress on Tillman Papers

By Josh White

The Washington Post

WASHINGTON — The White House has refused to give Congress documents about the death of former NFL player Pat Tillman, with White House counsel Fred Fielding saying that certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting "implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests."

Why would the president's office even be involved with the evidence in Tillman's death?

May the spirit of a true patriot, Pat Tillman, help uncover the truth about the BushCo republicon criminals, and bring them to justice.

After all, how can someone claim executive privilege if they played no part in the conspiracy?

I didn't even know he WAS until now. And on what basis? As someone already said, this is supposed to be a military matter. Does he think executive privilege is open-ended and all-encompassing? Does he think he can declare executive privilege over ANY matter he doesn't want investigated, regardless of whether it has anything to do with the executive branch of government or not?

I guess it could get entertaining watching him try!

another soldier will take the fall for following bushes assassination order.

may already be dead thus preventing him from ever telling what he knows. His tinfoil hat may be even tighter than mine, but it's possible.

Regardless of what Bush knew, covering it up is a crime.

...then Bush can not interfere with or obstruct a murder investigation by claiming "executive privilege". What is he trying to cover up?? This is the question not being asked by the MSM.

thats connected in someway to him, then he may have a problem but I havent seen anything about it on tv yet so it doesnt exist right? Im not saying its anything like that, just giving you a possible way.

He has only two options left: 1. leaving the country and disappearing after leaving office, 2. Not giving up power in 2008. At this point in my opinion it is impossible to predict what he will do when faced with these choices. A run of 230+ years is a fairly good record for a Republic.

Perhaps he's protecting key people in the military that he will need to make option #2 in your list a realistic option.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2931311&mesg_id=2931404

fleeing would have been the better option.

I won't suffer a dictator.


Will you?

That's probably why they chose it for their "retirement community".

if the info that is eventually exposed is as bad as many of us think it will be, I would fully expect various people around the world to be, well, miffed. That place in Paraguay may seem safe, but, well we all know that terrorists have a way of slipping through. He'll have so many groups hating him that there will have to be a lottery to see who goes first.

They'll end up being pretty thoroughly criminalized here, and the *bushies will need quite a private army to keep the compound safe, so it'll work out for both of 'em.

they can do anything

they can blow the whole place up with nothing but a block of cheese and a phone charger

could be convicted too.

Shrub has only survived so far because all in the know have kept their mouth shut!

The problem for Shrub that I see in this case is that there were lower level people there who KNOW what really happened! It's easy for him to bully and bribe the "friends" around him like Gonzo, Rummy, Wolfie, etc. It's not so easy to get aways with that when you're dealing with entry level military volunteers! I sure can see where a few souled be sooo ticked off they'd be willing to resign from the military and testify before Congress!

Maybe the RIGHT place our Dems should be looking is to the enlisted people who were actually there!

...into another "Jessica Lynch/Rambo" story, and the subsequent embarrassing revelations that followed. Of course, I couldn't put ANYTHING past the BFEE, but it seems more likely that Pat pissed off his fellow soldiers by declaring his liberalism.:(

Here's the one I am working on right now. Bush is either being petty or he is hiding a criminal act.


I am puzzled by President Bush claiming Executive Privilege in the Pat Tillman case. What is he covering up with Executive Privilege? Who is he protecting? Is Bush trying to prevent embarrassment, or is he covering up a crime?

Not long ago Bush said "I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

It's time to stop asking for the courtesy of a truthful answer to our questions, it is time to start demanding answers. It is time to stop talking and start shouting. Being polite and respectful does not work with Bush. Maybe it's is time to treat him with the same contempt he has shown us.

unless he ordered or approved of it in writing, triplicate, with many witnesses.

but surely he knew and participated in the coverup which is also a crime.

It's a pretty cut and dried legal principle, actually. He stepped up and participated by proclaiming executive privilege. Therefore he became a participant in the act itself.

Otherwise, they might actually remember Tillman and get pissed off.

:evilfrown:

and did he do so in regard to any specific question?

Thanks to anyone who can catch me up here. It's easy to lose track of all the outrages - too many to fit on a score card.

:thumbsup:

The Tillmans are every bit as suspicious of the Bush Administration's role in this as we are, just listen to the public statements Mary Tillman has made for evidence of that. If you think you want accountability just imagine how they must feel having lost a loved one.

but in the coverup. For instance, could he have recommended to Rumsfeld that Tillman's death be glorified for the pr? Cruel thinking, I know, but look at the rescue story of Jessica Lynch.

Wouldn't the disclosure that Bush had demanded they come up with a dramatic story make Bush look ike the most ridiculous president ever? He's certainly won all other categories...

Not the same scenario but similar in its repercussions. By the time William Calley came to trial the public had turned against our Vietnamese "Occupation". Yes, Calley was guilty but he got his orders from his commanders and everyone knew it. The Tillman coverup hits home. The man was fragged and this administration lied about it. They used his death as a marketing tool and even the average apathetic American will be disgusted with such a horrendous betrayal.

Situation. This is when the DOD declared Exec. Priv. Busholini did not do so. It is absurd & Rep. Waxman is fighting it.

How has he been able to live with what he did?

Does he fear someday to be faced with a survivor of his victims
suddenly facing him and demanding retribution?

Or is he a hero at his local VFW?

or will both come true?

He is living in retirement and no, I seriously doubt he is hailed as a hero by the local VFW.

Please tell me that you really don't think for even a smidgen of a second that he would get a murder rap out of this.

I keep forgetting we don't live in that nation.

Let alone the Teapot Dome scandal. That was nothing.

It takes a governmental body willing to hold him accountable.

The Executive Privilege thing is extremely worrying but not fatal.

No, what we have here is a bunch of gung-ho BUSHCO cheerleaders who went WAY too far.

But who were they? That's the question to be asked.

Conspiracy? Only to cover up the facts. Facts are embarrassing things.

Rummy MAY have been involved. Hell, he was probably involved.

Our job? Find out what the Hell REALLY happened BEFORE the trigger was pulled.

if there was any sort of conspiracy to LIHOP or MIHOP, that won't go away.

and if there was, there are people who know.

Abu Ghraib was NOT just the few bad apples getting out of hand, but they got away with pretending that was what it was. Congress is probing that too, and may eventually find some record of direct orders that make IT a smoking gun. But I doubt it. That coverup was successful, and the people don't really get up in arms about it because , well, they were Iraqi's anyway, so what's the harm? :sarcasm:

But if the lid is pried off of this and there is any sort of trail of prior knowledge, THAT is where it will take them down. The coverup if no prior involvement would get brushed aside as just politics. Just looking out for the troops - didn't want to embarrass the guy who pulled the trigger.

The fact that the conspiracy is coming from the Oval Office only makes it worse, and it should be treated as such.

This is where we, as a nation, may decide if *bush really IS above the law or not.

deep within the bowels of this maladministration, deep enough in fact to ensure "plausible deniability" . . . how else to explain the unexplainable mishaps of people like Pat Tillman and Paul Wellstone (among many others)? . . .