Do you think Pat Tillman was murdered by an American soldier?

(Sorry, if a poll like this has already been posted. I didn't find one.)

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/26/ap3958728.html

Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Among other information contained in the documents:

_ In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

_ Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

_ The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

_ No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.

The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.

In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.

At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.

Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.

"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.

Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.

Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.

The documents also shed new light on Tillman's last moments.

It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

as proven by the cover-up

a murder would not have played as well as if the NFL player gone soldier died at the hands of the enemy.

days later? Why is he invoking executive privilege now?

Tell Bush his god is not going to help him either.

other than his murderer.

the evil that is Bushco and his goons.

Just most...:)

no matter the motive for the cover-up

C'mon. I seriously doubt GWB had a clue who he was, let alone "approved his murder" or "coverup". This is even beyond the "Clinton had Vince Foster killed" nonsense.

the * administration is complicate in covering up the murder for their own self promoting reasons - covering up a crime is aiding and abetting after the fact and is a crime.

this is a conspiracy theory. Democrats should not lower themselves to republicans level with such kind of theories.

I think it is really irresponsible to start throwing extraordinary claims around with an air of certainty without having even the tiniest shred of linking evidence to support the assertion.

And yes, I agree - this is exactly like right wingers saying Clinton had Vince Foster killed. It is not based on evidence, but rather on one's inherent disdain and distrust of the administration. That's not enough to justify this kind of wild speculation, and I firmly believe it impedes the actual search for the truth. :(

and daily I love him even more.

The shit is about to hit the fan. Even the sheeple will understand this one.

I can only find Rall's usual poking of fun at the poorly-spelled missives demanding apologies.

I think he had a couple of valid points in the strip in question, along with a serious and defamatory misinterpretation of Tillman's military career. I'd like to know exactly what he apologized for, and how.

please link it.

no evidence of enemy fire was found at the scene.

If they weren't under fire of any kind, doesn't that sound terribly odd?

that is what I find to be odd. If there was no enemy fire, why did the others start shooting.

Mercs were plentiful at the time ready to do anyone's bidding.

As a former soldier, I can understand part of the situation. I remember one of my buddies, during training, "shooting" a friendly, unloading almost an entire magazine on him. My friend was scared and confused. He saw the other soldier running at him, and just started firing. Things get really confusing. It's very easy to get turned around, to thing that you're facing the enemy, when you're really facing back toward your friends. Another one of my friends has told me many times about how he and his squad were just outside their Humvee setting up equipment, when an Apache shop up their truck, thinking it was enemy.
It's impossible to eliminate all of these incidents. It sucks, but it happens. It's part of war.
What I believe happened, though, is that at the lower level, people admitted what happened. As it got higher, some colonel or general got scared, thinking, "my soldiers killed Pat Tillman, and I'm going to get fired", or, the Bush administration learned about it, and said, "you guys keep your mouths shut. If this gets out, it will look really bad for us."
So, was he murdered? I don't think so.
Was it covered up? Hell yes.

How are those that break down and cry during combat looked upon? I heard that one of Tillman's fellow soldiers had a big breakdown in combat and Tillman ridiculed him and told him to suck it up.

If that is true, could that soldier have killed Tillman?

anything is possible in combat. The point is---if he was murdered and they knew it from the beginning---well?

responded to in combat situations.

a good slap or verbal lashing just may do the trick.

...it may come out even more strongly in combat, where panic costs lives. By then it's reflex, just as are so many combat skills.

I'm wondering if you are familiar with the fragging that went on in Vietnam?

No. Tillman was shot at around 10 yard range with an M16 and three bullets in close proximaty in his head. Another soldier that was there was wounded at the same time.

That doesn't sound like unloading the magazine or just shooting blindly to me.
How do you think someone in the panic could manage that kind of aim?
Did you friend who shot a "friendly" manage that?

I think you are right about the mid level cover up, I think you are right about the accidental shooting too.
None of us can know. The loose ends can be interpreted in a number of ways, so I am not gonna dispute any of the interpretations. What you say feels about right to me though.

welcome to DU Luke_R. Thank you for your service to our country... :patriot:

But, you bring up good points. Thanks.

Does 'Friendly' have to mean his fellow Rangers and how are they sure it was one of them ?

of elements within the "American" government

was the murder private or professional?????

I see no reason for accusations of murder. Battlefields are confusing places, trebly so when part of a neocon imperialism ploy. Tillman's death seems to have been accidental, though the cover-up attempts were even more clearly deliberate.

He was shot a pretty close range, certainly close enough for anyone to recognize him.

And someone burned his diary. It seems they were afraid of something he said. I am guessing they didn't like his opinions or maybe he was going to report some other war crime and they retaliated so he couldn't. The evidence points to a deliberate killing but at whose behest? Was it a larger conspiracy or did someone just not like him?

Prove that, and I would agree with you. However, very few people on the battlefield get close enough to Army Rangers to recognize them.

The evidence points to a deliberate cover-up, but until motive, means and opportunity are convincingly outlined, I think accusations of murder are specious. The * Administration covers up everything, and not everything they cover up is a deliberate act--they hide their mistakes just as reflexively.

Really. The guy was most likely shot by accident. This is not the first or last time a soldier will kill or be killed by a comrade.

If it was a fragging, the executive branch would not go to such
lengths to cover up the details.
They would simply prosecute the responsible soldier and
label the tragedy a result of combat stress or some such thing.
They are hiding something-
BHN

Why the coverup?

Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.
The BFEE is one big web of deception and
criminal activity.
BHN

So the PR machine can make Tillman sound like a martyred patriot.

Of course they can't allow the public to know that he died from a fellow soldier's bullet, conspiracy or not.

:shrug:

Because I don't know.

I don't know, but I doubt it.
The beauty of propaganda is that it ultimately turns all of us into enforcers.
We don't need orders from on high. We do it all freelance! And willingly!

and the bullets went through his forehead, how on earth did he make out complete sentences as he died? This part confuses me to no end.
I'm not a doctor or medical examiner but I just don't know how he would be able to make statements that were coherent if he was shot in the head.

Sorry to be graphic but wouldn't the back of his head have a huge exit wound with possible brain matter all over the place?

but yes, the U.S. military gleefully murdered Tillman for their own gain, now are being questioned by the last remaining patriots.
The United States long ago descended into Hitlerian fascism.

Just wondering....I'd say that was the likely way.

... would dilute the impact of those who know what they think.

As much as I loathe the military, and BushCo, I think that the probability is that some scared, excited, GI shot Tillman thinking he was an enemy threat.

The idea that ordinary GI's are always going to act rationally in the heat of the moment is beyond absurd.

It was friendly fire or an accident. If "they" wanted him dead, they could have done a much better job of it, having someone shoot him with an enemies rifle, or something much less suspicious. This was just a very unfortunate accident.