Would you let a 10 and 13 year old drive an ATV?

Girl, 13, Found Dead in Ariz. Mine Shaft
Girl, 13, Who Went Missing on ATV Found Dead in Ariz. Mine; 10-Year-Old Companion Rescued

A 13-year-old girl who disappeared while riding an all-terrain vehicle was found dead in a mine shaft, while her 10-year-old companion was rescued with serious injuries early Sunday, authorities said.

A rope team descended into the vertical shaft, where the teen was found dead, sheriff's spokeswoman Sandy Edwards said. Efforts were under way to remove her body.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3551097

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jkpcuREebHap-KHS_DDvYgbMUSdw

trampolines for her kids. EVER.

in my rural area, ATV's, motorbikes, and guns are very common, and trampolines are the poor kids' swimming pool--hard to enforce my rule when my boys go over friends' houses.

We were very strict about it when our kids were little. No one had a trampoline but we would not let them on any of the neighbors' ATVs. They were angry but they are alive and healthy today.

their heads that I consider these activities dangerous. Hopefully it makes them a little more aware and careful.

and as I turned onto our street, I saw my kid on an ATV, with his friend on the back. He froze when he saw my car. I think we grounded him for about a month. He says a year but he exaggerates. :)

I think the problem was more the mine shaft. The driver could have been 35 still driven straight into it.

if my ER nurse friend's rule had been in place: no ATVs for kids.

It comes from what she's seen in the ER. She didn't have that same rule for cars for her kids when they turned 16, so she's not completely 'paranoid.'

I understand being cautious, I just don't see the point in not doing something simply because something *might* happen. Evaluate the risks and act accordingly. If my 13 year old wanted to drive an ATV in a controlled environment with supervision, then sure. However, I'd stop at taking a 10 year old passenger out on unchecked terrain.

You evaluate the relative risks.

Look at the risks of ATV injuries and deaths and kids.

An asteroid "might" fall out the sky and hit the house and wipe out the whole family too.


I think everyone can figure out for themselves and their own kids, personally.

ATVs are obviously a different beast to bicycles but the potential end result is the same. I don't understand where you draw the line. Unless I see an immediate source of risk or I get a bad hunch, then I think, why not?

I'm reminded of the immortal words of George Carlin: "Take a fucking chance...".

No one forged new paths by taking the ones most walked.

A lightweight peddle bike is a different creature from a M.F. Heavy weight ATV that can roll over you and kill you. Hence, my teen son will do without one of these as long as he's under my roof.

You can be killed whilst using an ATV just as quickly as you can be killed using bicycle. There are different variables that make the inherent risk of each different, but the potential negative consequences end in the same place. Death. That's the potential negative consequence of just about every activity on the planet, including living.

I think there's a barrier in that you're talking about your child, I'm talking about me. You have a greatet interest in your childs welfare than I do for mine.

I found it fascinating. http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianatv/ The first part: http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianatv/2007/05/deaths_waiting_to_happen_why_a.html

If I have a fire, and my insurance company finds the charred remains of a trampoline in my garage they can refuse to pay out. As my insurance agent explained it - trampolines are a liability payout waiting to happen, so they insert some extremely strong language into the policy banning them.

As someone said on Spike Lee's film on Katrina, Dante has a special circle in hell for insurance companies. They'll do whatever they can to make sure they don't have to pay.

They wish they could ban all risk. I think with supervision trampolines just like pools are ok.

Getting back to ATV's. If I had kids there would be no ATV riding w/o an adult. I was a kid once and know what stupid risks kids will take.

But in this tragic case I understand they were riding behind their dad who was on his own ATV. 13 year old operating is old enough I think with an adult. This was just a tragic accident.

I do know a lot of people who let their kids ride ATVs. According to the story, the father was with the girls.

I just told my kids no way.

They are huge machines capable of high speed. Not in the cards for our kids.

Once a week at least, he sees a small child with splintered bones because of an atv accident.

Let me see if I can verify... Very tragic episode, that's for sure....

I guess this could also happen to an adult, but if I were going to take a child I would pair them with an adult rather than send 2 children out.

http://www.13wham.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=b3ce16c3-bda4-477d-8060-4358bffde365

The way it sounds no one even knows who owns this mine and it was covered so that no one would have seen it coming up on it... So, adult or no, I'm not sure it would have been avoided.

It would be too much to bear if the parents lost both this way.

Must not have been anything very sturdy.

but it was sunk down so you couldn't see it till you were upon it and the ground was sloping down into it.

The mine, believed to be inactive, is located in Chloride, Arizona, about 17 miles north of Kingman. It was next to a dirt road, concealed by brush and had no signs or barriers.

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-minedeath-az,0,1164450.story?coll=ktla-promo-layout


Apparently thousands of these exist throughout Arizona, some not even documented in any way and dating back to late 1800s, early 1900s. As more people move to AZ and overwhelm existing trails and recreational areas, this problem with become bigger, I imagine.

There's a lot of hidden shafts up in those mountains. Unregistered, forgotten, bloody deep shafts dug by men without a lot to say to the state. Even in broad daylight (and there's lots of daylight in AZ) they're hard to see. At dusk or at night, forget about it. You'd be half-way down one before you even knew it. My father loved to hike that area but he was always careful to stop before twilight for that very reason. He'd camp out rather than walk around even with a light.

I don't know how many are totally undocumented, but I imagine there are some...

when you buy an ATV your IQ goes down 30 points.

the very 1st and last time he did, he ran full speed, straight into a barb wire fence that he helped put up a month earlier. I thought he was going to take his head off, we could only stand there screaming for him to stop..he ripped up his chest pretty bad. Never again..

It's not easy to do,but I actually managed to run MYSELF over with one. :silly:

Other than the missing skin and spurting blood it was pretty damn funny. :)

what a tragic story. :cry:

There are kids in my town who know how to operate 4 kinds of vehicles before they know how to read. Several have little bitty motorcycles. Their hearing is shot to hell by age 4 so language skills will be a real challenge, especially in a very small community with no special services for hearing impaired students.

It is insane for parents to let young kids use such things before they have the strength, coordination and judgment required.

There was a family where I used to live who lost 4 or 5 kids in one ATV accident. Mom and Dad were gone for a few days and the kids convinced the person staying with them that they were allowed on the ATV. Parents clearly told them no ATV but didn't mention it to the person staying with them.

Four or five kids, their whole family, wiped out. The driver that hit them was not to blame, but can you imagine what the rest of that person's life will be like? The kids, all packed onto one ATV, came shooting off a rise in the desert and onto a roadway.

There's a kid near me who can barely speak or read because he is so hard of hearing, but HE OWNS 3 gas powered vehicles. He is not even 8.

People need to stop buying things for kids and spend some time parenting them.

I feel sorry for him, but he was a daredevil all his life, so if it was going to happen to anyone, I would have laid bets on him. Fortunately his little boys are not daredevils.

The other person I know who became a quadraplegic was the same way. He dove into the shallow end of the swimming pool while he was high on queludes and broke his neck. Actually sued the swimming pool manufacturer for poor design of the pool, even though the witnesses knew he was high.

granted, there were no vertical mine shafts around and we were ok. :shrug:

This is such an unusual story. My heart goes out to their family and friends. :(

but I see ATV used by youngsters all the time in rural regions.

Too much power with no supervised vetting to get permission.

We used to let my son (age 7-8) use a small boat to get to his granparent's and back for a short distance 30 years ago. Cannot do that anymore without passing a course at age 12 and carrying certification.

Probably "boats" are no longer so small and have MUCH more power than a 6 horse outboard with adults watching to and fro--- and now people put their kids on Skidoos without a thought ---- until the Sheriff catches them.

Same with land engines.

Many youngsters CAN be responsible users -- IF supervised closely. But the times seem to emphasize speed and risk for some reason other than normal adolescent behavior of taking it to the limit.

The "limit" has far surpassed the capabilities of earlier machines.

These parents may not have trained their kids accordingly -- or else may not have put a speed control on the machines being used.

When our kids were that age, we lived in a neighborhood where riding ATVs was the passion of every kid on the block. And back then, they were 3 wheelers, which are much more dangerous. Our kids begged us to buy them ATvs. We said no and we punished them the few times we caught them riding with the neighbor kids.

A kid across the street (he was about 7 or 8) rode into a mailbox on the curve and broke his collarbone and cut the crap out of his face. The day he got out of the hospital, he was out riding again. Even our kids could see that was crazy. They stopped bugging us about wanting an ATV after that accident.

I have had problems over the years with kids of all ages riding these things on my property. Even after I posted some of my land, some teens tore down my signs, and continued riding here. I've had a snowmobile and an atv accident on my property.

Once, when I was asking a few folks to kindly get off my property, they became hostile. Not a good choice on their part.

was very strong.

http://www.rnews.com/print.cfm?id=52840

They are not hard to handle on a dirt road, but off-road is full of opportunities to tip over or get into all sorts of trouble.

I used to ride on the OLD Honda 3-wheelers with my cousins back in the early 70s when I was 14 or 15. My dad took one up a steep hill and it came down on top of him and nearly slit his throat. My mom had to drive him 60 miles to the nearest doctor to sew him up.

They are not toys for children to play with. They are transportation.

That said, my son has driven dirtbikes since age 12. He now runs his Dads 650 Duel use Honda at age 16. Knock on wood, he hasn't dropped it yet and more skillfully rides it than Dad, who has dropped it, a few times.
Injuries so far? Both arms broke over the years. But, had he been on an ATV, who knows. Those bastards will kill you in a rollover. No ATV for my 16 y/o. He will have to wait till he's on his own for that.
Regarding the Article, Kinda looks like the kids where in an area the family was not familiar with, that said, where were the parents?

depending on the 13-year-old. Ten seems pretty young, though I drove them myself when I was that age ... I don't think I would let them drive unsupervised in unknown wilderness, though. Definitely a tragedy ...

It's trouble.

I think they are too dangerous

It was probably too dangerous, but it was the 80s! We were just a bit older, though -- I was 15 and my brother was 11.

and ought to be outlawed. And children shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them.

unless it was one of thos 3-wheel deathtraps from honda- then it would be NO WAY! at ANY age.

I learned to ride on a honda "Big Red." :D

First part here: http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianatv/2007/05/deaths_waiting_to_happen_why_a.html

Rest of series here: http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianatv/

We love riding ours. But we have 40 acres to ride on...we don't bother neighbors, because we have none, and we don't ride on the roads, because we don't need to.

Children have accidents on bicycles too.

Eventing, the sport that disabled Christopher Reeve. He was at the lowest level of the sport, we are at the top end.

I know families who have lost kids to ATV deaths on their farms and it's heartbreaking. One close friend lost her son to a head-on with a tree. It was absolutely devastating.

When we ride horses, it's with the best high end protective gear and we also know the terrain intimately before we ride hard. When most people ride ATV's they just get on wearing whatever, and ride full-on wherever. That is a recipe for disaster.

On the farm, I have a golf cart and a 40cc scooter that 16 year olds can drive providng they have their driver's license. Nobody else gets on any other kind of mechanized vehicle under my watch and I would never own or provide an ATV to any child.