“My heart just wasn’t in it no more”

It’s impossible to pinpoint the exact moment when Pat—previously a mild-mannered, loyal soldier—decided he would risk everything to start a new life in a new country. One critical moment that Pat does recall, however, was during some down time spent a world away, in the middle of a forsaken Kuwaiti desert. He was stationed there in 2003 with the Army’s 541st Maintenance Battalion, ordering supplies for vehicles—Humvee tires, track shoes for tanks and the like. “I was like the Pep Boys of the Army,” he says. He also guarded the gates at several camps—Wolf, Arifjan and the Kuwaiti Naval Base—from behind a .50-caliber machine gun. It was there in Kuwait that some of his friends, returning from a deployment across the berm in Iraq, told him horrific tales, shared with him grisly photographs and made disturbing remarks about what they’d seen and done there.

“One of my buddies is telling me that he has a six-year-old daughter,” Pat says, “but now he sees the faces of these Iraqi kids that he’s run over every night before he goes to bed.”

Because of the increasing number of ambushes on convoys, an order was passed down early in the war that convoys were not to stop for anything. And Iraqi children, accustomed to convoys stopping and handing out food and candy, started getting run over. Pat continues, “His buddy standing next to him says, ‘I don’t know how many Iraqi kids I’ve pulled out of the front grill of my truck. Ain’t nothing but speed bumps to me.’”

The grisly photographs Pat’s friends snapped in Iraq began to haunt him. One series shows what happened when a truck failed to stop for a checkpoint that his friends were working: The truck is absolutely riddled with bullet holes, including about two dozen in the windshield. “They killed everyone inside, except for one,” Pat says. The sole survivor is being treated for bullet wounds in some of the pictures. Apparently, he says, the medics were angry that the guards didn’t kill him, too, for security reasons.

Another series shows two children who appear to have been burned by explosions or chemicals. Pat tellingly describes the first boy as being “about my son’s size.” Neither child can be more than three years old, and it’s impossible to look at their pained expressions and call them “collateral damage.” A third series, by far the most disturbing, shows corpses of mostly Iraqi soldiers, though some of the dead are conspicuously noncombatants. They have either burned to death or been killed by large-caliber machine guns. One dead Iraqi soldier’s index finger has been shoved up his nose by American soldiers, and the caption reads, “This is what happens when you’re picking your nose instead of watching your sector.”

“It’s just the disregard for a human being, you know…it’s a dead body.” Pat takes a long pause before continuing. “So I’m thinking, ‘If I go over there, am I going to come back mentally screwed up like those two guys? Am I going to be able to interact with my son properly?’ I love my son, I don’t want to do anything to hurt him.”

more . . . http://artvoice.com/issues/v5n10/brave_hart

I hadn't seen that picture before.

who kill children and see them as road kill. :cry:

:kick:

There are no words... :cry:

:mad:

(picking self up from the floor) K&R :(

that's one of the reasons my nephew gives for re-enlisting - the health benefits for his family. He's from the same area, has done one tour, and it was the children that really got to him, too. He said all he kept thinking was "I'm going to get home to my son, no matter what it takes". He's not the same guy as he was before, that's obvious.

He is terrified that he's going to have to do another tour, even though he was told he wouldn't have to. His job in the army has nothing to do with combat, but in Iraq, everyone has something to do with combat. If and when they all come home, we will have so many messed up soldiers, I can only hope that there will be enough help available to them. Another bit of "collateral damage" from bushit's war. Messed up families for decades to come.

55 years after that war ended.

but at least maybe he had the small comfort of knowing that the war he was fighting was a necessary war (if any wars are necessary), and a war that was fought conventionally for the most part. At the very least, it is a war that you could justify fighting in.

From what I understand, many, if not most, of the soldiers in Iraq, know they shouldn't be there. The illegal, unnecessary, pre-emptive war will be one they'll have trouble justifying. My nephew said if a 10 year old had a gun, he had no choice, but that doesn't mean he'll be able to live with it easily. All the deaths of innocents, combined with the fact that many more soldiers are surviving what once would have been fatal injuries (along with multiple tours), is going to do a great deal of damage.

Your dad was a hero. I think it will be a lot more difficult for the soldiers in Iraq to feel that way. I worry for them, and what will happen when they come home. That being said, the sooner they come home, the better. And maybe the next president will restore all the funding for the VA that this administration has taken away. 55 years is a long time, I guess generations would be more appropriate than decades.

He liked Nebraska, because we couldn't hear the planes overhead here.

He lost a wife, a daughter, a big chunk of his soul and part of his knee in that war.

My fosterfather, who lived to the age of 83 had PTSD all his life, from 1945 when the war ended, to his dead now this winter.. In periodes he allmoust not sleep, and in the days he was allmoust "dead".. I know.. In periodes he wasent able to talk about another thing than the war, maybee little proud, but for the most part becouse he had to... I know alot of the war, from one who LIVED true it..

Now, he is dead, and to ble frankly, it maybee for the best. Now he dont have to live in the "war" years after the world war was over...

Of course they dont call it PTSD when he was in the army, and I guess that he never get a proper evaluering from his psycical proplems.. When the war ended, and the first "memories" was coming the doctor told him to take a schootc before he sleep.. That was the medical help he was getting after the war.. And he surived for over 63 year after the war... He was a verry strong man, who was tuff as rock.. But I know that he had some ugly, ugly memories from the world war 2...

I am not suprised at all what the soldiers are telling from Iraq. Have heard rumors about it for years..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language.

:hi:

about today and maybe tomorrow but not into the future....you have given us a vision into one. Thank you....by the way, you did a beautiful job of getting your story to us!

edit: Welcome to DU! :hi:

Thank you. Many dont think about to the next day either, just this day...

War is not good, but just simpel bad thing.. The interesting thing about the all, is that peopole who have experient war is usaly the same men and woman who are the last "triggerhappy" peopole in the world..

At the same time, some poepole who never experienced war, are mor likely to sendt others to war. Justifully or not, they are sending young men and woman to the war.. And they dont think about what is happening to them after the war are ended and the "normal life" is starting again.. For them who survived, and come home in one pice. The life is newer the same again.. Even if they dont get the ugly "flashback" their world IS diferent... And that vil be the case when the wetrans from THIS WAR is coming home again...

And thank for the nice word that I do tell a good story, in engelish. I do hope you understand it, even the language stink, and I guess my "gramar" ar less than perfect... I try my best... Have never been clever in engelish, but I try...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language.

the truth?

I also agree with the fact of people who have never experienced war being the ones to send others off to fight their battles. I think it is an important point. We're already hearing stories of the psychological toll this occupation has taken on our soldiers. I have a nephew in Camp Tajii north of Bagdhad. He doesn't write anymore! We don't know what is going on in his mind at all. He was a very kind, fun loving kid...a kid....not what I would call an adult, when he left for the war in February. Wonder how he will come back?

Again, you do fine with english....it's a strange language to begin with! Lots of Americans don't know the language....much less a second, or third language! You're doing great. Thanks for your opinion here at DU.

War is a ugly business.. That was I told home.. And I dont understand who easy it is to get pepole to fight others war... President Bush just rapped it in the american flag, and told the soldiers, and tho who was angry enough to enlist after 9/11 to go to war, and then the war vas going on.. I have never demostrated in my life, but before the Iraq War I was one of 60.000 pepole in Oslo, Norways Capital who demostrated against the war.. The war was coming anyway I and the most of the world know that.. But I just cant sitt still and do nothing... The men who send the "kids" to war should in the last have been there and se it for itself before they are sending the soldiers.. Eisenhower, one of your President, know what war was, and he was not exactly happy about the war thing.. Even that he was sending troops to Vietnam in the early stages of that world, I guess it was called "advizers" then:P

The Storyes that you are hearing, that soldiers who are coming home, after one, two or tree times in Iraq is posibiity just the top of the isberg. Many, many soldiers never complain about what is in their mind. They just "suck it up" and try to keep the memories down... And many try not to tell the relavtives, theyr uncles, ant's theyr mome and dad what really going on...
I do hope your nephew is ok.. But i do fear that your nephew may get som ugly damage psycially at least when he are coming back.. I am a pasifist myself. But the boys/men and woman who are going to war, they have my respect. But they have ALSO the right to not been send in harms way, becouse of a Egotrip from the President..
I fear that the storyes we are coming to hear now, is just the top of the isberg. It wil come, more and more story like this when the soldiers are coming home.. Some of this type of History wil send the comanding offisers to prision, or the the Haag... If it is not for the fact that USA dont reconise the International Criminal Court in Haag..

I fear that your nephew wil be verry differen a man when he are coming back... He wil not be that young man who was going to Iraq anymore.. I do hope he can trust you, to tell what is happening over there.. Maybe not now, but when he is coming home.. If he want to talt, lisen to him, thats is maybee the most important thing you can do for him, when he are coming back.. Lisen and try to help him "sort out" what he have seen.. If you dont, you may get av "tiking bomb" on your hand.. Many of the soldiers from the last golf war, was going on a rampage after thei was out of office.. Even loved one was in the "dangrous zone" some times.. Timoty Mcwhit?, He who "blow up" the ferderal buidling in Oklahoma City was a soldiers from the first gulf war.. He was " a tiking bomb" long before he blow up.. How many others are out there?..

Tank you for the kind word. Engelish IS NOT a easy language anyway.. But I am feeling I get a hang on it somhow;)..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

ps I do hope your nephew is coming home, in one pice. and whit his "mind" in order.. Try to write to him, show him that YOU care of him, even that you cant defend him there in Iraq... "Bomb" him with letters...

e-mail him. We send pictures from "home" although we are in the same state (Texas) we live almost 300 miles apart. The family is close in the best sense of the word even though there is a distance in miles between us. As I watch the sun come up here in the hill country of Texas I can't help but wonder what our nephew, Kyle, saw during his last sunrise? He has probably learned a lot. His folks were/are very Republican and don't pay attention to what is going on in the world. Consequently, Kyle isn't an inquisitive type...and didn't have a clue about the politics of the occupation. He seemed far too immature to be going off to fight. We went to Fort Hood to see him off in February. This farewell came two weeks after losing a infant grandchild and you know seeing him leave was like a second funeral to me.

America is probably creating a lot of monsters out of good men and women who went to this occupation. Time will tell. I have been reading about the "mystery" illnesses our soldiers are experiencing; some from the first Gulf occupation. America does its best to avoid responsibility for our present day soldiers and veterans. This is certainly true with the ones who suffer from chemical exposure and mind damage.

With the torture and outright murder, in some cases, of civilians,failure of health care for all our citizens, theft of the treasury, the slow progress on global warming, etc.....this is not the America I grew up with. America's history, the more I learn, leaves a lot to be desired. I hope to see a compassionate America emerge out of the mess.....somehow. I just turned sixty years of age and I hope I live long enough to see a positive change. The world community has America's "number" and more Americans are beginning to see the light so maybe things can turn around.....or not.

Again, you do well with the crazy english language! You should be very proud of yourself!

That is good to know that you write emails to him when you manage to do it;).. It is important for your nephew to know I guess, that you are there, and you want to hear from him... To be close to the familiy is important, maybee the most important in the world. What are a person if you dont have contact with the familiy...?

It is important to se what is going on in the rest of the world. It is maybee more easy to do that in a smal country as my own (Norway) than in a big country as USA?.. When it come to it, Norway is a more easy country to have "controll" over than USA who the states is bigger than both Norway Sweden and Denmark combined...And that probely just the smaler states...

I guess he has learn a lot, maybe a lot he donsent want to learn, if he had been back in Texas?.. The School should maybee had learn him little more of how the US foreign politic i going then?.. Not the fine detail, but some maybe.. It is more easy to control av nation if they dont know about what is happening you know...

I am sorry to hear about your dead granchild,(I really do) It is allways bad to hear when a young child is daying.. And that close to your Nephews sending overseas must have been maybee harder..

I hope that USA are not creating THAT lot of monsters when it come to it. But I guess it wil tale a long time to understand to do when the vertrans are coming home. The vetrans cant just given a medal, some speach and then out of your own.. Sink or swim your shosing. The goverment, HAVE TO HELP ALL THE VETRANS THEY HAVE CREATED IN THE FIRST PLACE. But I guess it wil go to the non governent organiations to hjelp the vetrans.. As it lock like it have been everytime the US are going to war.. The government dont like to take konseqvenses for what they are doing. Republican or Democratic.. But I guess the Republican is little "harder" than the Democratic....

Many vetrans who are coming down with all this mysterius illness should have been GIVEN free health care.. I US can afford to use 0NE TRILLION DOLLAR eatch day to fight a war who are umoral, criminal and plain stupid. They should have afforded free health care for the vetrans.. Not just from the currens wars, but for all wars th US have going into since 1945.. But then they maybee are seeing the true cost of war.. And that scare the hell out of they who are sending young man into battle..

The US of today is not that US I have in my mind when I was growing up. You have living a lot more than I have, but I do have a "wiew" of US that is far away from this country as today.. This america you are living in today have nothing to do with the US before 9/11.. This is a country who the pepole (many of them) really by into the official propaganda, and belive that the rest of the world, specially french and the arabs are agains US and want to kill as many they can manage.. That the US have going to war over the last 100 year with less exucses is someting they dont want to undestand. And many american is also willing to give up the freedom they take for granted.. The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence The bill of right is not paper who are easy restored when broken.. Belive me, we in europe have learn the hard war that this right is hard fight, and not easy to get when goone. I do not hope that US are learning the hard way what dictatorship really is.. You HAVE the right to disagry with your goverment, you dont NEED to go down the evil path with this evil little group of men and woman who really belive they have the right to destroy more than 70 year of friendship between USA and the European country... That can be the end result if they are doing what they want..

I do hope for a diferent US when it come to it.. You have had bad leaders before, and come back to glory. But I gues your way up after this nuttcase of a President is harder and longer than ever before.. This Presidentscy is bad, really bad, and they SHOULD have been arrested and put into some secured building under hewy gueard.. Its 498 days to go, before this Administration is over.. God know how the last 498 day wil end... Before US and maybee the rest of the world can breath little more easy... Maybee you have to go into your selfe and se what the goverment, and yourself have doing wrong.. And try not to fall for the first laying next time.. I know you can do it.. Watergate was maybee a wake-up call. This Gate wil be a nightmare to wake up from..

Thank you. I do try to doing it better, and i do hope that I are doing some progress.;).

Diclotican

The problem,Diclotican,is that I'm not sure that a change in political leasdership is going to do much to change the present direction of the U.S. The opposing party, the Democrats, have not done what's in their power to do! That's the scary part...or the "rub" as Shakespeare would have said.

Our executive branch has extended its power so greatly. The Democrats have done little other than lip service and non-productive hearings or investigations into changing the over reaching powers of the executive. Why is that? Is it because when they take over the presidency they too want those new powers? It's a truly scary time.

There are many, many people who want change but our elected representatives are not listening! Our president spoke two days ago and said his decision on troop strength would not be in regard to what the people want or think but by what his military men advise...and of course we all know that if they don't advise him in a way he wants to hear he ignores them or fires them. Bad situation.

I must get to work this morning! But, I will be writing back later...your fluency of ideas gets better with every post!

It is a great problem you have on your hand, and I do wonder hwy the Democrats are not doing more to stop it.. My best guess is that they are really afraid of been pointed as weak on terror, weak on crime, weak of everthing President want them to be weak on.. The result is that desent, democrats and republicans cant get their woyse up to voice and to tell the goverment that they are wrong.. The Fear is so great that it must be some verry fearless peopole who have nothing to loose, but everything to gain to fight for the right everyone have take for granted.. I am comfused, about what is happening in US the last 6 year.. Its look like your executive branch, and the peopole who are in gorvernment whatever political party they are like the thinking about a dictatorship.. Where the "upper class" of pepole have all the power, and the rest maybee be ruled by a iron fist.. And fight for them self.. Not a pretty sight when it come to it is it?.. I dont know what to do, I dont know what the americans should do to try to fight it.. Under the WW2 we trust on UK and USA to fight the war against the Germans.. If USA is going into a dictatorship, even a mild type you maybee dont have NON to help US.. Not at this moment anyway...

Maybee th Democrats want it to itself if the is a presidental wote in 2008.. I dobt it wil be that... I fear that it wil be a "crises" and then the exceutive branch of the US goverment is just closing down the country and put in under matrial law.. Off course to the "crises is ended". For the Germans it tok a World War and 12 year with a dictatorship worse than everything Europe have seen.. And maybe over 50.000.000 dead sivilians.. I do not hope that is the case for US...

I was lisning to the same adress on CNN.INT (CNN international) Wel the smal part I was willing to spend to se this **************** man on my TV.. I dont hate the man, but my stomach allways rotate in tree diferent direction when he is on TV...

You are not alone SnappyTurtle, you and the "other american" have a lot of friends outside and inside US.. If the media is telling you that everyone outside of US is "hating us, becouse of our freedom" as they was telling america after 9/11 that is a big F*** lie, who are been told day out and day in.. Its a lie becouse the most of the pepole in the world dont hate america. But disagree deaply against your current Administration... The funny fact that many of them who "hate" you today, was americans best frend when Clinton was in charge.. Is that funny... And disturbing at the same time...

The President as in George Walker Bush jr have never been clever to hear to other than he want to lisning to in the first time... From the time hi was ins school he was a stuborn boy who just do as he pleased.. If the books I have read is correct.. And the same is the case now. He dont want to hear from peopole, profesions or not who dont tell him what HI want to hear. Even as the fact on the ground is verry bad and the advises is the best of US and for himself.. The Iraq Survey group. What happening to them?.. The whole ting ran out of in the sand, and we havent seen one thing about that who have been proven wrong.. Rather the opposite..

He want this war, and a teoretical war with Iran. He want the war to "prove" him for his father and all them who have told this poor little man that he was no good.. He try to overcomepate for the fact that EVERYONE business, or thing he has been doing for him in the life have been going down the tube.. Even as Guvernor in Texas he just survived becouse he had some Excelent advises.. But that it something you may know mutch better than I do... My guess is that even the bold brave and tuff texans in the end dont want this person to represent the big state in the end.. Then better with Ronald Reagan, with all his wrongdoing...

And yes. He defintly fired and retried the officers he dont like or dont like the advices of. What happening with all the generals who dosent have nothing to loose?. They are ALL out of pentagon and over i other work.. It is just "yes men" in the Pentagon today. Spesially in the upper ecelon of the armed forces.. THAT is bad when it come going to war... And I dont like the "religius right" who are influeing the armed forces either.. I am a cristian meself, but I disagree deeply with that prospect when the armed forces are been lead by peopole who belive they are shoosen by Lord to do his bidding.. Not this way... I know peopole can have some conection to Lord. But not this way, this is not the Lord speaking but more like the old coalpusher downstears...

Wel I try;). I do hope you have had an good time at work, It important to have a work who you like/love you know;)..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad Engelish, not my native language

:hi: It's good to have you here, and thank you for sharing your story with us. It's so sad that stuff like this keeps happening to more and more men and women... :(

Thank you. I am maybee not that old just 31 year old. But my fosterparens, spesially my fosterfather was a man who I look up to. Not just as a "war-vetran" but alså as a great man in it self.. Ok we have our disegreement over the year.. Both was stubborn, and that is maybee not the best thing if it is to live under the same roof sometimes..

But, when it come to it. I really miss the old fellow. And I do hope my fosterfather is in greater shape now, than he was in living life. He was old, and sick the last 2-3 year.. But he was "stuborn" as a rock.. And promised to be 100 year old. He was trying to beat his grandfathers record of 96 year.. But he was stoped at 83..

And the curius thing is that my fosterfather infact was sleeping in the same day his mother was 100 year old, if she had livet that long.. Exactly the same day, the old man was dying as his mothers 100 year. My fostermother was into the thought that the old woman was calling his oldest son "home".. If that is the case, then its hope for the afterlife after all

War is ugly, and the most vetrans hate it when they are out of it. And not everyone are that lucky as my fosterfather.. He had a "normal life" with kids and wife. They was growing up, in all 7 kids, with my and my brothers as a kind of "odd-ball" after the first batch of kids.. Many vetrans after the WW2 ended their life under misrable condition. Many ended their life in psycatric hospital. One of his old friends from the war ended his life as a nutcase in one of the psyciatric hospitals.. Other killed themself, or driftet away and just was goon some day...

Men like George Walker Bush and its like should have going to the war itself.. Not just in a quick trip to "try" to build up some moral-boosters, but REALLY to fight a war.. Mr Bush are proud enought to send young men and wommans to war.. WHY are not he sending his twins into battle?.. That should be a "moral-booster" if the kids of the President are enlistning and been send to war..

But that wil never happend.. My guess is that they have "other business" to attend to. Like represtaives from the "young republican" hwo catagory denied been send ouverseas, and enlist. Becouse he had other business to attend to. But he was absolutely in the wiew that US have to go to war over Iraq... But dosent dear to enlist himself, and not just speak tuff, but Be tuff...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish,not my native language

It's been called "Battle fatigue" in the Civil War;
"shell shock" in WW I & II;

now it's PTSD. Doing inhuman things to humans.

Yes, it have had many names over the year... But it is doing the same thing to the soldiers anyway.. And they have to live vith it for many, many, many year after the last gun have been silent...

How many soldiers from US and other nations have to pay the prize for the war in Iraq?. How many vetrans from the Iraq war vil end theyr life as homeless, and not welcome into the "familiy" as the others in the country are doing...

I -know- that it wil come many vetrans, who end their life in extremely poor condition, maybee even treated as sub-human by the socity as a hole...

How many vetrans "drowned" after the Vietnam war?

How many vetrans wil "drown" after the Iraq War..

Hwhy are the socity not willing to give all its war vetrans the help, and sercure life they _ned_ after the war...?

War is INHUMAN...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad Engelish, not my native language.

Bastards - another lost generation.

:thumbsup:

I sent this article to Dennis Moore. It just sent chills up my spine.

and recommended

:)

of this sick, twisted war.

Human beings are not machines, no matter how much you train them to kill without thought.

We have only just begun to see the suicides, domestic violence and social upheaval our soldiers and their families will suffer. The toll is enormous and sadly, most soldiers and their families will suffer it alone.

Add to that the stigma that will be attached to every returning soldier and it's clear our military's sorrow has only just begun.


:cry:

will most likely leave office in 2009 without being held accountable.

they will make veterans' concerns a priority.

We cannot just forget what we have done to our servicewomen and men. Their trauma will impact this nation for generations.

More "collateral damage."

:kick:

n/t

When will this macho culture wake up and realize that it doesn't have to be this way?

The last "feeling" moment I remember is during his first deployment,when he called me saying"mommy,I'm scared."We talked for a little bit about his guard duty,and then he told me-"Don't worry,mom-we aim low with the kids".I know he probably killed a few,although he hasn't spoke of it since 2004.He has been basically emotionless since then(except for anger).Motherfucking warmongers that did this to him.

:hug:

I was constantly worried about my child until he left the Army last year. A friend (ex military) told me that I didn't need to be so concerned as he knew my son was a "sharpshooter".
I replied that while I was concerned about losing my son, I was also concerned about losing him emotionally. I didn't raise a child who could sleep well at night after killing innocent civilians including children. :grouphug:

:cry:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/16/AR2007061600866_2.html?sub=new

The military is also battling a crisis in mental-health care. Licensed psychologists are leaving at a far faster rate than they are being replaced. Their ranks have dwindled from 450 to 350 in recent years. Many said they left because they could not handle the stress of facing such pained soldiers. Inexperienced counselors muddle through, using therapies better suited for alcoholics or marriage counseling.

A new report by the Defense Department's Mental Health Task Force says the problems are even deeper. Providers of mental-health care are "not sufficiently accessible" to service members and are inadequately trained, it says, and evidence-based treatments are not used. The task force recommends an overhaul of the military's mental-health system, according to a draft of the report.

this for a possible 400,000 new claims of ptsd.

excellent! I wish that family all of the luck and love they need, they are so very brave.

<snip>

Then, in May of last year, Pat watched British Member of Parliament George Galloway fillet the US Senate, who’d fingered him in the United Nations Oil-for-Food scandal. In Galloway’s prepared statement, he turned the tables on the Senate, famously saying, “I told the world that Iraq, contrary to your claims, did not have weapons of mass destruction. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connections to al-Qaeda. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connection to the atrocity on 9/11/2001. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that the Iraqi people would resist a British and American invasion of their country, and that the fall of Baghdad would not be the beginning of the end, but merely the end of the beginning. Senator, in everything I said about Iraq, I turned out to be right and you turned out to be wrong, and 100,000 people paid with their lives; 1,600 of them American soldiers sent to their deaths on a pack of lies; 15,000 of them wounded, many of them forever disabled on a pack of lies.”

Hwat was the replay from the senators who tryed to "frie" George Galloway then?

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

And continued to try to make him out as the fall guy they needed.

Hello.

I am not suprices about that, that they want him to be the "fall guy". Its locking like the former and the currend Senat is more into beating they who told the truth, than to get to they who are doing wrong this days.. Surly the "old men" on the Senat have falling long in grace...

I wonder on somting. How long shall it continue before you in US manage to elect leaders who in fact are elected by the Peopole, for the pepole?.. Where is the vibrant democracy america have given the impression you have so mutch of?. Where is the anger against the goverment, who was selling you a war, based on lying, based om false profe and extremist tolkning about the whole thing..

Are the public "deaf" to what is happening in US today?. Or they dont care anymore?. Or it is that the fear after 9/11 have been that great that nobody dear to questing the goverment on a public base anymore?..

Is this the Great american who once on a time in fact stand as one of the greatest country in the world. Who everyone was a freeman, and there the poorest man can be elected as the President, if hi just work "little" harder?.

Ok, I know the president part is mutch propaganda, I dobt noone who dosent have a million dollar in the bank have been elected president since 1800... But you see my picture I hope..

Where are the great american, even a general is good at this point in time, who manage to get elected democratic, and working hard to repair the damage this ********* stupid President have been doing.. The **** is becouse I dont have a disent word for what I mean, so therefore I dont use that type of word..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad Engelish, not my native language

The problem really comes down to the simple fact that everyone wants to see change, they just don't see the way to make it happen.

The moment our government broke the contract with the American people that we call the constitution, they ceased being the government of the united states.

At that moment the agreement between the people and their leadership was voided for breach of contract.

That realization is a very heavy burden to deal with, many refuse to see the facts because they just can't deal with it.

There are four boxes of liberty, they hold governments to their side of the bargain.

1) Soap Box. Freedom of speech, difficult to utilize effectively for several reasons. Ideas that threaten to change things are reviled by those who want things to stay as they are. Ideas can be hijacked and distorted into something nobody would care for. Sometimes we are so used to something being a certain way that change seems odd or unnecessary. Ideas are the most valuable way to effect change as they must be accepted as logical by the majority to become a motivation for change, and if that starts to happen, the opposition to change will stop at nothing to halt it in it's tracks.

2) Ballot Box. Voting for change, also difficult to utilize in a condition like we see here now. Making people believe their vote will not be counted has a very direct effect on voting, many just don't show up to vote. This is almost always to keep change from happening. Even if the votes are counted properly, the impression they will not be is useful to discourage those who want change.

3) Jury Box. Forcing change with logical legal means. Very effective if the courts conduct themselves by the rule of law, and enforcement of the court's decision is carried out. But we definately are not dealing with a system that respects the rule of law, nor is it being enforced in the rare case of fair judgment. (Scooter Libby)

4) Ammo Box. Armed revolution that will require the injured party lowering themselves to the level of the oppressors. The outcome is anybodys guess but much risk is involved when confronting the world's most powerful military, as many nations around the world know. One thing is for sure, many will die and the victor will not recognize the place when it's over, nor will they have much time to regroup before those who we have pissed off in the past come here for payback on a weakened nation. The only thing in our favor is that we have shown that as a people we can do this, we have done it.

None of these options are workable at present, we will have to wait for this stalemate to change, as all things do. Either we will move closer to the rule of law and back to the constitutional republic we founded, or we will move further away from it and risk foreign intervention or the inevitable awaking of the majority to the need to stand against it at all costs.

Time will tell.

He was at the US Senate and totally burned Sen. Norman Coleman!

Here are some video links! Enjoy... :)


http://www.democrats.us/beta/forum/view_topic.php?id=2375&forum_id=3



http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da68000cfe0/nb/09012da68000d146_nb_16x9.asx

Iragi Kid Runs for Water

I was told all my life that if you treat a dog like this, it tends to grow confused and untrusting...

That will be Bush's legacy.

What are we doing to our military and to the Iraq people? :cry:

...now we don't bring them water!

How in the world are these used and disregarded GI's gonna cope with life back home?

That's all we are anymore. Thugs.

It's hard to pull for a country that is so despicable.

more than any other President, IMO.
Our whole popular culture, from music to cars to movies to sports to politics, is all about thuggishness.

How can we be proud of what we have done?

Ugh...so disgusting.

:(

the first three boxes appear to be empty.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Words are not sufficient.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

She said he used to kid around and laugh and be the nicest person to be around, but now he is silent. He hardly ever smiles and doesn't like to be around family gatherings. Makes me wonder how joyful Bush's daughters wedding will be. I bet no one there will sit silently and not speak. As I said before I read on DU a comment from a mother of an Iraq vet who had lost her life: "While the Bush's plan a wedding I will be planning a funeral for my daughter". How poignant.:hug:

about a very brave man.

How long before some poor Iraq vet goes on a bullet-slashing tirade as some sort of snap response to the inner torment they've seen in Iraq? How will the Dub Club spin that? :mad:

:toast: :bounce: :toast:

How will they spin it?

Just another "bad apple".

:nuke:

Will it be when we drop nuclear bombs on Iran? Will it be when we have more photos and lies?

How long until people know that these innocent people are beautiful people?

We kill beautiful people by making our beautiful children into monsters or sickly, possibly non-functioning humans whose soul is tortured or wondering somewhere even if the body is in the next room.

And the country dies from lack of our kids and the country's money.

The world sees it and those leaders in Europe are in on it.

Before its the US dropping nukes on Iran. Hey but what the heck, jews are subhumans right? Ahkmadinnerjacket really want peace with Isreal...

welcome to DU?:shrug: :hide:

nuclear weapons for ten years. This was revised a little by propaganda or facts. It had been said that they could accelerate that date if they were able to buy certain parts. Guess what, Khan and Cheney sold them parts - don't know which ones. Now, the U.S. says (by implication) that Iran will have them by October because it's obvious that all the signs are there that they are going to lie to us again. The UN says something different. There is some crap out there from our government about 3000 centrifuges up and running. Others say even if there were, it would be more than a year. We all learned to trust the UN, not the U.S. or Israel about wmd capabilities.

THAT GIVES THE WORLD PLENTY OF TIME TO FIND PEACE.

But the leaders of the U.S. and Israel DON'T WANT PEACE. Israel leaders DON'T WANT PEACE with anyone in their neighborhood. It appears that a growing number of Israelis do want peace, but we don't hear about it in the U.S. with our corporate/baron media.

Iranians are beautiful people just as Israelis are. They don't deserve what their leader is doing.

The problem is with the leaders.

Many of us resent the U.S.-Israel partnership for war. And if you stay around you will hear various versions of the rejection.

There is little peace sought by Israeli leaders for a long time. The truth is blunt. Sorry. It's what I believe and years of observing have have not proved otherwise.

:-( We tried to stop it and 'THEY' still won't listen to us..

All this for what.. Bush/NeoCon Vanity in Think Tank Opinions about "HOW AND WHO SHOULD RULE THE WORLD!"

:puke:

"War is Hell"

Cant say I blame them for not stopping for nobody.

No more smiles...and the boy next to him is probably dead.I hope Sgt.Hart can make things right in his head.

Back in '04. More than once I thought the actions of some of the Marines seemed blatantly Sociopathic. Not all of our soldiers are well-meaning kids, caught up in a bad situation, some are just violent ass-holes.

It seems to be the two extremes, nobody in between. You get the good guys or the guys who joined up for a steady paycheck and some degree of healthcare, and then you get the guys who joined up to exercise their worst instincts.

Why don't they just eat the corpses? Friggin monsters they have become... :grr:

and it just breaks my heart.

:puke:

Because I have no intention of letting the military try and turn me into a dehumanized fuck who can run over little kids or pop innocent civvies. You don't do that. EVER. I don't care if they're bait for an ambush, you still don't do it. You take the chance and try to fight your way out of the trap.

Civilians die in war. It happens, but it shouldn't be something that's treated like scraping a bug off the windshield or stepping on a roach. If a truck doesn't stop for your checkpoint, you shoot low. Blow the tires, blow the engine block if you can get a shot that won't go through and hit the people. Take a chance. Don't shoot up the compartment. Might be terrorists/insurgents, might be civvies. But if you're too concerned with your own hide to not shoot the civvies, then you're just as bad as the guys with bomb belts and AK-47s/74s.

We need to completely overhaul our military training program, and maybe have a few trials in the process.

Also, Captain Pierce is a scumbag, and I hope fate puts him in the path of an out-of-control 18-wheeler.