Childless deserve time off too!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife/08/29/parents.small.biz.ap/index.html

Parents, non-parents compete for time off
Some employees without kids may feel parents are given time off unfairly

NEW YORK (AP) -- With schools around the country back in session, parents who work at small businesses will be asking for and receiving time off for soccer games and class plays -- possibly leading to some friction because other workers don't have such ironclad reasons for leaving early.

Business owners and human resources executives say companies can avoid such problems with equitable time-off policies -- in other words, by recognizing that all employees regardless of their personal circumstances need a work-life balance. Encouraging an atmosphere of mutuality and goodwill among co-workers can also head off conflicts and resentments when one staffer leaves early.

Colleen Haviland, founder and president of Xsell Resources Inc. and Ready to Hire, two businesses in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania, sees no difference between giving parents time off for a child's game and giving childless workers time to go to sporting or theatrical events.

Should I go over the time I get as a University Administrator in the UAE:

-Weekends (2 days each week)
-Almost 2.5 months in the Summer
-Almost one month over XMas between Semesters
-Two Eids, Each of those gets a one week holiday
-Christmas
-National Independence day (4 days)
-Oh, and if a Sheikh dies, there is an official period of mourning which includes a holiday.

And somehow (even excluding oil) the UAE is one of the fastest growing economies in the world...

Don't hate and don't believe the lies the Capitalist masters are spreading. It's not productivity, it's slavery.

ON EDIT: NOTE, THE DIVIDER PART WAS DIRECTED AT THE ARTICLE, NOT THE OP...

sheesh! DU is filled with a bunch of wussies. Seriously.

for time off...

anyone who wants a job, basically has one. Among the locals, it is about 15-25%...

But also, don't forget all of the time off Europeans get... the US is a sweathouse in comparison.

What's that? About four, four and a half months off, not including the weekends?

You don't really believe that would work in any place besides academia? Even progressive countries like France don't have that much time off!

Lucky you, though. :)

That industry isn't known for egalitarian labor practices to begin with. When single parents can't do the 'rotated' chores (opening, closing, supplies and stoking, etc.) then others wind up carrying the burden. Since the compensation 'system' is hugely based on tips, such work is poorly compensated.

taking care of elderly parents for example.

You end up working the worst shifts, holidays, weekends, you name it. While the parents get paid the same and are allowed to enjoy their family while you are given no chance to even make a family! I bitched and complained all the time because I would say they can have the holidays with their children but give me some days off during the weekend and new years. All I got was either new years eve off and worked the next day or could work new years eve and have off the next day, the weekends never happened. My shift 7am to 6pm, parents shift 7am to 4pm because they don't want to get charged extra for daycare another salaried manager paid the price.

Had to rant that stuff killed me years!

He's constantly doing 12's and 14's ... stocking deliveries, doing opening or close, etc ... because another manager has to pick up a kid and didn't rotate the job among staff.

Sometimes, single people are also "screwed" by the system. The last place I worked allowed for "family" leave and that was however you defined family. This also meant I could take time off to take care of business such as meeting the cable personnel or whatever I needed in order to maintain my home.

THe implication being that child-less = nothing to do with free time.

Hell, I was even asked that after I started dating. Oddly enough, newly married couples were never asked what they did in their free time. :)

maybe they were just asking "What do you like to do with your free time?"

They might actually be asking: "Since your life isn't totally consumed by loaded diapers and midnight crying, what awesome things did you get to do over the weekend that I'll never be able to for the next 20 years?"

I was afraid I'd be accused of whining about how hard it is to be a parent if I said it.

:shrug:

I never was envious of childless single people after I was married and a parent, nor did I think everyone else should get married and have kids. People have to make their own choices.

If I ever asked anyone, married or single, with or without kids, what they did with their free time, I'd just be making conversation, asking what they liked to do for fun. I would think that's why most people ask.

I have a 3 year old, and I still manage to spend time with friends and go out and do interesting things.

Not every night of course, but at least once a week, sometimes more.

Parenthood isn't the end of enjoying life - at least, it shouldn't be - we (society at large) have sort of created that paradigm.

So I've found that creating wild stories usually shuts them up.

As if without children you sit in some primordial Eden where there is never a crisis, never a situation you must deal with; you are always and forever free from care and worry. LOL. I love that.

on edit: thoughtfulness (rare)

I don't have children, but I work seven days a week. Self employed. I take about two hours a day to myself; enough time to shower and run an errand. I've only had seven days off since last November. I always wanted to adopt, but I have neither the time nor the money (medical bills).

Get one of those frames with a kid's picture already in it and when I want to go home early, say "Jesus Jr. is sick today and I have to pick him up from day care".

If, however, they are using their leave when they leave early, then that is fine. I usually prefer to have a whole day off then to use up my leave time by leaving early.

a half-day of their allotted vacation time (or of their personal days) to do something with their child(ren), there is no problem.

If they're getting "free" time off, it's unfair for them to get that unless people without children can also get "free" time off.

:wow:

it just seems to me if this is a real problem, pretty easy to fib

i don't have a hard time getting time off if i need it. i have my alloted amount of paid vacation and personal days and they don't care if i take a day off here or an afternoon off here as long as i get my stuff done.

but the problems come around the holidays. all the paid holidays are randomly assigned (we have to have someone in the office on those days), so some years i've worked christmas or thanksgiving and others memorial or labor day. but those with familes (read: spouse and children) want to have spring break, the week of thanksgiving and the time between christmas and new year's off.

i have a sister in college and that's when we take our family vacation. i have to fight to get that time off. if i want to see my mother out of state around christmas, i have to fight to get that time off.

i also get tired of hearing some of my coworkers bitch about how they can't stay late because they have a wife and kid (yes, they've said that).

i'm not saying their family isn't important, but it is no more important when i had a live-in so and cats waiting for me at home. or my dad and sister were waiting for me.

i just get tired of being treated as though my family is less important because i am not married to any of them or give birth to any of them.

Or there should be some other fair way of claiming it--such as "first come, first served." Whoever puts in for the time off first gets it and others who put in later have to figure out a schedule because everyone can't take off.

It should not be based on who has a family.

I agree that employers should be more fair toward parents who need flexibility. (Just yesterday, I saw a kid across a busy highway who needed to cross it to bike to her school and was afraid of the traffic. She was alone, probably because her parent or parents already had to be at work.) But that flexibility should extend to everyone so that the message is not sent that only having kids is important, or only having kids means you have a life.

It's like work breaks. They won't let you smoke on the job so they have to give you smoke breaks. Well, I don't smoke. Does this mean I shouldn't be able to have a moment to take a break?

a couple years ago i requested spring break off four or five months in advance (i was first on the list) and got bitched at about it because someone else's kids were out of school that week and they wanted the time off. there's a mad dash every december when the next year's vacation calendar is put up...everything from thanksgiving through new year's is booked within the first hour or so and the calendar is put up hours before i come in for my shift (i've been stuck on the late shift for years, but that's a different story).

and i do agree that parents need some flexiblity with their kids, things happens and i know that. but i also agree that there needs to be flexibility for me when my water heater springs a leak or i need to take my cats to the vet

as far as smoke breaks go, i am a smoker but as we are entitled to two 15 minute breaks in an 8-hour work day, so that is when i take my breaks.

If they're asserting that they can't work late because they have family, then it follows that you should be able to assert your unwillingness to work late as well. If you aren't, that's not really their problem. If you resent it, then I'm guessing you would like to not have to work late as well. Well, if there's a reason why you don't want to work late, say so and stand up for yourself. If your employer weighs their request as more important than yours, then you have a complaint against your employer. Not against them. I think wanting to be home with your family is a valid reason to not want to work late. It's not the only one. I think your reasons should have just as much weight. But, they're not schlubs for asking for it, either.

"waiting" for me. It's a matter of the afterschool program closing down and either paying $1 a minute until I get there, or in some other world, letting him sit on the curb waiting for any child molester to breeze by. Your cat can pallywhack around drinking your toilet water or your sister can play canasta. A six-year-old boy can't do too much unsupervised.

There are certain things that parents have to do that aren't comparable.

i know things happen with kids, i was a kid once and remember my parents having to leave work to take care of me. that said, i should be afforded the same consideration when something happens in my life that requires my immediate attention. if my cat is sick and needs to be taken to the vet, would you rather i let her suffer? if my house is flooding because my hot water heater sprang another leak should i just leave it and deal when i get done at work?

if you'd read my post, you'd understand that my complaint is regarding vacation time, not the things that spring up unexpectedly

I was told that once years ago, I told the boss that I wanted to buy a bigger TV and that was just as important to me.

have the money to feed it.

I agree that everyone deserves equal time off, but I can understand employers floating a little extra OT to parents who have mouths to feed.

And others shouldn't have to pay for those choices.

we ALL pay for the choices of others. Some are more evident than others. I don't live on a flood plain, I don't smoke. But, I pay for people who chose to do so through insurance premiums.

head start, WIC, after-school programs, etc since those children exist by their parent's choice and are therefore not our problem.

?

I can remember the stress my co-workers with kids had every time the school would call and say they had to come get their kid because they were sick, or every time their day care fell through for whatever reason. I don't think it's a picnic to have to worry that your work and career is suffering. It's not as if the parent had a choice. They can't tell the school and say "Sorry, but I'm at work". They can't leave their kid at home alone with the day care falls through. They have to go. And they are stressed out when this happens. It isn't a vacation. It often does add to everyone else's workload, but workplaces could do more to alleviate that. The only other option is never hiring parents.

I think resenting parents for it does nothing but divide people, and absolutely nothing for the real problem at hand. The fact that most employers are going to give as little as they can possibly get away with. And the fact is they have to hire parents, or the job pool would shrink considerably. And parents are sometimes going to be called way because of their kids. It's completely understandable. Yes, they should also allow for other non-family related emergencies, too. And if they don't, that isn't the parent's fault. It seems like some people are resentful of the parents, and that makes no sense to me. It doesn't do any good, either.

It's out of balance.

BTW I am 49, a divorced empty-nester.

Last year my husband accompanied his dad for some out-patient surgery...he told his employer where he was and that he would be in later that day. The surgery ended up taking the whole day. The next day, my husband put in a sick leave slip, saying he was "sick with family", as he had done in the past when I was in the hospital. They gave it back to him, and told him he had to use vacation instead. Their "sick with family" policy only allowed an employee to use accrued sick leave if they were taking care of a sick spouse or child, it does not extend to a sick parent.

My husband supervises several employees that use up their sick leave as fast as they get it, usually to tend to their children. On the other hand he has 60-70 sick days accrued. Now his dad is really sick (probably needs to be in assisted living), and my husband can't take off even a part of a day. Next week, my SiL is going on vacation for a week, and she's pretty much telling us that pops is our problem (he's 88, recovering from a triple bypass done 8 weeks ago, can barely walk with a walker, falls, urinates all over every thing when he gets angry, screams at everyone, etc.). My ex-BiL is going to stay with him a couple of days, but I'm sure he'll be outta after being pissed on and verbally abused (and he suffers from CHF himself). We're looking into paying for a sitter.

Family Medical Leave Act allows people to take time off to care for their children OR a parent.

It's discriminatory to allow employees to use sick leave to care for one kind of immediate family member, but not all immediate family (spouse, parents, siblings, or children).

You have a tough situation. I wish you the best with your FIL.

My point is that if caring for a parent qualifies for leave under FMLA, then any employer who allows staff to use sick leave to care for a child should also allow the use of sick leave to care for a parent. It's called consistency. As it stands now, the employer in question has a double standard. Sick kid? Fine - take the day off to care for your offspring. Sick mom? Tough luck.

If I understood it correctly, the purpose of FMLA was not to guarantee an employee would be paid while s/he is on leave, but to ensure that an employee would not lose his/her job because s/he is caring for a family member - child OR parent.

And in my spouse's case, his employer's policy is discriminatory to child-free workers. Employees can take paid sick leave to care for their children. Yet a child-free worker has to use up his paid vacation before he can take unpaid sick leave under FMLA to care for a parent.

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/employ/fmlachart.htm

It's a chart that summarizes various states' legislation regarding leave policies. Your state might be on here. Your husband's employer may be breaking state law by having this double standard in place.

Since he can't take sick leave in this case, he'll be forced to take vacation...and he only has 10 days of that, as opposed to the 60-70 he has of sick leave.

My employer requires us to use up ALL leave - sick and vacation - before using FMLA.

This meant that when I returned to work after having our son, I had NO leave of any kind available to use for doctor appointments. And there are a lot of doctor appointments that first year. Then there are the day care bugs and viruses. Then there are personal illnesses. My son is now two and a half years old, and I am 30 hours in ARREARS on my vacation and sick leave accruals. I can't believe I'm not used to this yet - the punitive attitudes some employers have about employees. It's crazy.

then you're fucked 'cause FMLA is null and void for small businesses.

edit for spelling...duh...

It's an increasing problem across the board with aging parents anyway. Your family isn't unique.

Kitty and doggie mommies and daddies deserve some time to spend with their furkids, too.

if it has to wait a couple of extra hours for mommy or daddy to get home.

A child waiting to be picked up from school or daycare will not.

Pets have life-and-death crises sometimes.

it should be equal time off for everybody, now employers have to make it so.

That's exactly how it's usually portrayed too -- people without kids should be glad to sacrifice for those with kids and shut up about it, as if that's an improvement on the opposite position, which is to assume that employees with kids are less reliable and to treat them accordingly.

Bottom line, there's not enough time off for any employees in most companies in the U.S.

For the record, non parent employees have issues too....as an employer I could tell a million tales from both groups

Parents are working for more than themselves. They tend to be dedicated and longer term employees. Sure they need more leeway, bumper time in the am and pm,sick time, etc. As a parent myself, I can understand that. When the other employees are parents too, we are all on the same page.

I have worked my ass off for years, probably putting in more hours than any of the PARENTS at my job.

finish the paperwork the parents didn't get to before they...

oh crap, did I say that out loud?

:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

and I left at 12:30. :D

to go to a kid's soccer game. I have taken two sick days in my entire life (I'm 41) and I was the one sick. The childless no more deserve bonus days off than parents do. Everyone should pull his or her weight.

every one of their stupid soccer games--and even practices.

In fact, with attendance at the kid's routine athletic event as the new gold standard of parenting, it gives the little darlings the idea that the world revolves around them.

I can see taking time off to attend special, one-time events, athletic or artistic, where the child plays a defined role. See child play in state championships? Yes. See child play in once-a-term band concert? Yes. See child sit on bench in third softball game of the day? No.

Is part of the self-proclaimed hectic life of the modern suburban parent self-inflicted?

Do they really enjoy watching a bunch of kids play sports badly, or have they been brainwashed into thinking their child will be complaining to psychiatrists thirty years from now that "Mom missed one of my Little League games in 2007"?

I didn't do sports when I was a kid (we played on our own instead of having adults organize stuff for us), but I did participate in singing and drama, and I would have been surprised (and embarrassed) if my parents had shown up for more than one performance of the school play or had gone on choir tour with me.

I understand that parents have emergencies and truly necessary duties, but maybe their employers need to help wean them from being helicopter parents.

I totally disagree.

Now, if the parent or child acts like it's the end of the world to miss a game or too, they probably have a problem, but my kids always wanted me at most of their events.

not at weekly or daily happenings.

That's not like going to 52 games a year!

Play soccer in the fall and baseball in the spring, and that might be eighteen or twenty games total a year - unless your child plays in one of those highly competitive sports leagues that has more games. Most kids don't make it into those leagues.

I generally stay for practice, because it's more economical to stay than go back and forth. I stay, read a book, maybe visit with the other moms, and get some relaxation time for myself! ha

I agree that obsessively attending every single moment is ridiculous, but I grew up with parents who NEVER showed up, and that's very damaging for a kid.

But this is easily solved by my original response to the OP, which is that all employees should have adequate personal time to use as they deem necessary.

family and so on.

i'm not sure why people accept low paid jobs where they are paid a salary, such as manager of burger king, you hear them complain that their employees are making more than they are, well duh, why don't they refuse the promotion then or demand to be compensated for the hours put in?

it seems like accepting salary'd work is just asking to have your time stolen, unless it's really a high salary


not an issue of kids/no kids, just an issue of, if they're paying you the same no matter how many hours you work, of course they are going to try to infringe on more of your time, it's just good use of resources

The admin staff, works flex time. They can come in early or leave early. You just need to get your work done. And it's not like if everyone takes off the office will go under.

For me, I have to coordinate with the other girl that works in my position. But it's never been a problem. I know she works a second job, and I was thinking of going out of town next weekend, but if she has to work there then I won't. It's not a big deal.

But I already asked her about Thanksgiving. I usually don't go out of town for it, but I am this year. Thankfully, she's not going anywhere, so I got Friday and Saturday off. (We're closed the holiday).

The other good thing, is that we're both flexible with each other. She usually works during the day and me in the evenings, but if I need off in the evening or she does during the day, we just switch it up.


But on this topic, I don't think people with children should come before the childless. It should be first come first serve. :shrug:

I can understand if we're talking about a hospital or fire department or something - after all, people aren't so considerate as to have their heart attacks and auto accidents during normal business hours.

But now everything from restaurants to offices to factories seem to have to be open 24/7. I had to work in a call center for a while for Qwest, who insisted that the lines be open on holidays. So we didn't even get holidays - they wanted all hands working those days because they tended to be busy. No time off at all, though we got an extra 8 hours of holiday pay on our paycheck - a virtual day off, but without the R&R. That's it.

I'm so glad I now have a nice software engineering job in a company that's CLOSED on holidays. It's closed for the full week between Christmas and New Years. I don't have to work weekends, I don't have to work evenings. The 9-5 40 hour work week is so nice.

I mean, really, is the company going to go bankrupt if they say "Sorry, we're closed on Thanksgiving."?

:shrug:

You'd be amazed at the number of people who mob stores/malls on holidays because they can't seem to entertain themselves any other way.

but we do.

Jesus. Last week the wretched she-hole boss (Department Director) I have wouldn't let me off work early from the hospital where I toil scrubbing toilets even though

a) My nephew was in surgery, and
b) My disabled mom (who was crying) needed a ride home and
c) I Had already completed my assigned work for the day

Meanwhile - my stupid-visor leaves work early at least once a week for critical things like de-worming appointments for her new puppy and furniture deliveries. Usually on Fridays when she has the weekend off.

I hate my job.

which is exactly what I always expect. That said, there's give and take -- at my job, there's plenty of overtime, but I can't take it, because I have to watch my son. The single people at my job are taking vacations in exotic locales and buying late-model cars, because they can suck up the overtime. They also get to work the shifts that pay premium, because they're at night or early in the morning or on Sunday. I should complain that it's not fair that late and morning hours are premium.

And, of course, I'm thrilled to see the comments that equate pets with children, once again. Fucking insane.

there are so many people here with strong anti-parent/anti-family/anti-child views, yet most people do marry/cohabitate eventually in life and most have at least one child.

There is either over-representation of childless people on DU, or they just really really really like to post about when the opportunity arises.

(BTW, I 100% support any human being's choice to have or not have children without reservation. I just don't get the hate.)

there are thirteen million adults in the United States that identify as "childless" or "childfree". I might also add that there are now more single and childfree or childless households than there are parents.

>yet most people do marry/cohabitate eventually in life and most have at least one child.<

I knew I was not having children in my 20's. When I married my husband, I told him repeatedly before we wed that children would be a dealbreaker. We do not and will not be having children.

To assume that everyone who'd like fair treatment in the workplace and in the tax laws either hates children or parents is a gross generalization. I submit that it takes more strength of character to NOT have children in a society that believes those who don't are lacking in some manner.

Julie

but it's not okay for them to question yours?

>And, of course, I'm thrilled to see the comments that equate pets with children, once again. Fucking insane.<

Only "insane" to those who believe that parenthood is a higher calling than anyone else's life choices.

Julie

and think the world now revolves around them and their precious children.

:eyes:

How employees choose to use it should be up to them.

The liberal party has turned into a bunch of 4 year olds.

parent, even if it was just to watch TV with a beer and a remote control on my chest. A simple fairness issue.