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"Liberated From Threat of Hell" Two letters call out our county for their religiosity.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 03:01 PM
Original message
"Liberated From Threat of Hell" Two letters call out our county for their religiosity.
Edited on Sun Sep-09-07 03:31 PM by madfloridian
Just in case you thought it was just me, that I was making stuff up. I often have said here that my hubby and I were called "unpatriotic" for opposing the Iraq invasion...while our Southern Baptist church supported it from the pulpit.

That mindset has carried over to all parts of politics and life in our area. Our Democrats are afraid to speak out on issues such as gay rights and pro-choice for fear of the church influence here. In fact they are becoming afraid to speak out, period.

I have begun to see letters in the local paper for the county about the issue, but there are two powerful ones today. I say good for them.

I did not write either, but I certainly do agree. It is about time. Both letters are at the link.

Liberated From Threat of Hell

From the first letter:

Responding to Karen Reed and William Wesley Roughton's letters on Sept. 1 <"Would Rather Obey God Than Man" and "Happiness, Religion, Sense of Community Go Together: Share">, there are numerous folks "from the South" who prefer that others keep religion to themselves.


From the second letter. This one is very long and every word deserves to be read. No matter one's view of religion...there is much there for everyone.

As a proud humanist, I agree fully with Howie Keefe <"Keep Religion Personal," Aug. 25>. The intense religiosity in this corner of the world boggles newcomers unaccustomed to such sectarian intrusion. In Keefe's words, the natives "just don't get it."

I've lived in Polk since 1985 and seen a ton of it. Town meetings, led by elected officials, open with prayers. A mayor officially renamed his city "Auburndale-for-Jesus." Rodeos start with the national anthem and a prayer. Cruise the suburbs and you find a megachurch, topped by a big cross, every 50 feet.

But these days, Christians feel targeted for criticism and wonder why. That's a no-brainer. These days, they deserve it. No other faith system has ever attempted - successfully - such a complete takeover of our government, at all levels. In defiance of the Constitution's prohibition against any imposed state religion, our nation, under President Bush, has become a Christocracy. Bush's appointees (Rove, Miers, Roberts, Gonzalez, etc.) were chosen more for their religious dedication than professional qualifications. A Bush appointee to the FDA had written a book on health care for women, based on Scripture. Various Washington groups (Leadership Council, Statesmen's Institute) train interns for public office, aimed at legislating biblical teaching. Our taxes fund faith-based charities and religious-school vouchers. Stem-cell research is stifled because unused embryos are more important than suffering people.


And this last paragraph says so much. In this area we are "cowed" into not speaking out about things like this. It has carried over to all parts of life. It is not really considered acceptable to make too many waves about anything at all.

Sectarians have cowed us into "polite" compliance, pretending to worship something we can't accept as real. This culturally enforced hypocrisy governed my youth until I learned to think for myself. I see no end of it until our silent majority (yes, there are many of us) openly refuses to conform. Then maybe the fundamentalists will "get it."

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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's time to move into our own agenda
Instead of reacting to what these fools say and think it's time to announce a new plan that speaks to the majority of people now.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. The other side of the coin....two very different responses.
Godly Principles

This is in response to the letter written by Howie Keefe: 'Keep Religion Personal' . He feels that we do not get it. In my opinion, he is the one who does not get it.

It seems to me that he has forgotten that this country was founded under godly principles. Look what has happened to our great United States since God has been taken out of everything.

What does it matter to him on how one's obituary is written? He is not forced to read them. Just like he is not forced to watch the parades.
This is still a free country and we still have the freedom to choose. He could live in a foreign country where they do not have the freedom we enjoy.

If he is offended and feels like an outcast because of prayer, maybe he is living in the wrong place. Since I was born in Florida and have lived in Mulberry for the past 57 years, I feel I can express my opinion as a true Southerner and tell Mr. Keefe and all his Northern friends that they can freely move back north where they will not feel any resentment about their beliefs.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.



And another:

Polk's Christian Beliefs

must respond to the letters written by Nick McCoy <"Church Fliers Not Wanted," Aug. 4> and Howie Keefe <"Keep Religion Personal," Aug. 25>, regarding religious people passing out pamphlets door to door.

Christians know there is a heaven and a hell, and it doesn't matter where you are from or the color of your skin, they want you to know the Lord and have the opportunity to go to heaven.

When the obituaries are listed, I look to see if they had a church home, then I would know they are in heaven and, even though I do not know them, I feel peace in my heart.

I am proud of Polk County and their Christian beliefs. Just remember, God loves you - so do we.


Dear Betty from Mulberry....you are judging a lot of people.



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momster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. "When in Rome...?"
Gad, has this letter writer ever heard of irony? Doesn't she know what the Romans did to the Christians?

Jeez...(with no religious intention)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, isn't that arrogant?
And just plain ignorant?

It shows the mindset here, though. You don't belong if you don't see it our way.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. The fact that the paper printed the letters is important...
Edited on Sun Sep-09-07 03:25 PM by MadMaddie
The same Christofacists that scream that Islam and it's radicals are a threat should turn and look in the mirror themselves....they have become their enemy....trying to take this country back to the times before science and respect for other views and religions....

We that oppose this type of cultism mixed with politics have been silent for way too long.....they say the way to kill a snake is to cut off its head....

To cut off the head of this insanity...
-* , Cheney and others must be impeached
- Churches must finally lose their tax exempt status...if they
want to delve and interfere in politics well then they must pay
to play....
- Signing statements by the President must be removed...this power
has shown that it can and will be abused.
- All appointees to all government positions "Must" be skilled and
experience qualified....DOJ, FEMA, etc....

And if our Democratic representatives decide to pursue the same broken path...then it will be up to us to remove them and replace them with someone that will do the peoples bidding....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. "that same broken path"...
Seems to be a lot of people going that way lately. I guess Dems in congress do it because of various fears.

People here won't stand up to anything because they don't want to be ostracized.

Sad.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. my talking points to fundies
Edited on Mon Sep-10-07 12:40 PM by RainDog
I'm also from the south, also raised as southern baptist, and I HATE the thought of living anywhere south of the mason-dixon because of the religious stupidity.

when talking to my relatives in the south, who know I do not share their beliefs, I use their language to talk about things. For instance, I express my sincere concern that Bush may just be the the anti-christ... he fits the profile... says all the right things... I am not lying when I say these things because "the antichrist" for me is a metaphorical concept of someone who uses faith to do the opposite of what EVERY major religion has as its premise- the golden rule, do not murder, steal, lie -- in order to intentionally cause harm to others.

If your church preaches republicanism from the pulpit, I would like to encourage you to tithe to a real group that uses christian principles rather than to your church. If anyone in the church asks you about this, you can explain your decision. On the other hand, there are other protestant churches that do not defile christianity like the southern baptists do. Personally, I could not be associated with them in any way once I learned they opposed MLK and desegregation and equal rights for all americans.

ymmv

edited because verbs are useful things...
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. And they're thinking..
I've got me some suckers now..

"I've lived in Polk since 1985 and seen a ton of it. Town meetings, led by elected officials, open with prayers. A mayor officially renamed his city "Auburndale-for-Jesus." Rodeos start with the national anthem and a prayer. Cruise the suburbs and you find a megachurch, topped by a big cross, every 50 feet."

They can't tell the truth and say they worship at the altar of greed and power so they use subterfuge..how long have they been getting away with this?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Way too long.
:hi:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Right, Way Too Long..at least the netroots
have their number and we're spreading the word.. outward!

:hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. I found the two letters that started this controversy.
They are interesting to say the least. And yes, it really is that way here, it is overwhelming. I am a Christian and speak from that viewpoint, and it is overwhelming.

Church Fliers Not Wanted

Today, after 40 years on this Earth, I officially announce that I've had enough. On a recent night after a long week at work, I came home to find yet another "invitation" stuck to my door from a local church to come and join them. Of all the different religions in this country, only Christians have the unmitigated gall to stick their literature on unassuming peoples' doors.

The Buddhists don't do it. Neither do the Hindus. Not even the Muslims, for whom I have no respect or tolerance, do this. Only Christians take it upon themselves to recruit us "sinners" into their fold.

I'm an atheist and I have never held back on expressing my opinion on my personal beliefs, but I have also never ever attempted to bring anyone to my side of the table, so to speak.

To make a finer point of this, we live in Polk County. You can't swing a dead cat, or a live screaming Christian, without hitting a church - whether it's situated in an elegant brick building with Greek-inspired columns at the entrance, or a double-wide trailer with a simple wooden cross in the parking lot. I can close my eyes, spin around, then point in any direction and walk no more than a mile, and have an equal chance of either dropping into a lake or walking into the side of a church.


Just keep your sense of humor and look at it as free speech. Just enjoy his outrage and don't be upset at his opinion.

Now keep that humor handy, more outsiders are speaking up.

Keep Religion Personal

I don't think you Bible Belt people get it. You printed a letter from Nick McCoy that he resented a church invitation being put at his door. This prompted a letter you printed by Ralph Henry that made fun of McCoy's point of an uninvited church solicitation.

I moved here four years ago and was immediately struck by the area's seemingly gung-ho attitude toward religion. Your obituaries often state what church a person belonged to. At my first Christmas parade, I was amazed at the school floats with religious names.

I attended a financial group's luncheon to solicit my business at a fine country club and before lunch was served they offended me by making me look like an outcast by saying grace - at a financial meeting. It seems that everyone here assumes that everyone is religious.

Please, Polk County, understand that we from the north consider our religion to be a personal matter. We resent your exposing your beliefs to us - keep them to yourself.


My parents, active in the Southern Baptist churches here...my father, a deacon and leader in other ways....would have laughed to read these.

They would seen the outrage as sincere, and they would have chuckled. They would have been appalled that any churches were preaching to invade a country that never hurt us.


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