We as a party should apologize for the MoveOn.org ad

but NOT until after the GOP as a party apologizes for:

Newt Gingrich and Grover Norquist engineering the 1994 election to overturn the then-Democratic majority
the Contract on America
Newt shutting down the government because he was pissed President Clinton wouldn't speak to him on Air Force One
the Arkansas Project
the Whitewater scandal
the whole impeachment mess
Free Republic.com
Lucianne Goldberg
Sean Hannity
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter
Bill O'Reilly
Fox News
running an unqualified hack for president in 2000
butterfly ballots in Palm Beach County
giving the Taliban $43 million in foreign aid
9/11
Katrina
the Iraq War
letting Osama bin Laden slip away at Tora Bora
Haditha
Abu Ghraib
the Chuck and Lynndie Show
Jerome Corsi
the rest of the Swift Boat Liars
Purple Heart band-aids
the Ohio election debacle
firing General Shinseki
Rudy Giuliani
Arnold Schwarzenegger
almost 4000 dead American soldiers
about a million dead Iraqi civilians

I could go on but you get the point: the GOP has FAR more to apologize for than we do.

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TC

But why should we apologize for the truth, ever. In my opinion, yesterday's hearing amply made Move-On's point.

When a representative is telling betrayus to look into his heart and remember the number of dead soldiers before Bush makes his statement to the world on our next move. To me he was saying, I don't trust your agenda here, please think of the soldiers before you continue this endless war anymore.

I totally agree with the ad in the paper, they were just one day early and then everyone would agree with them. Well everyone that has been watching the hearings live not the news clips for obvious reasons.

I read the MoveOn ad. Okay, so it was painful. Sometimes truth hurts.

And if it turns out that they're right--that Petraeus is doing his best Morimoto imitation over the casualty stats--there's a whole slew of people who need to be fired and/or impeached. Starting with Petraeus.

Let alone republican voters.

Chuck Hagel.

I was suckered into thinkin that we really
needed to apologize for tellin the truth.

Lol

should apologize for the MoveOn.org ad. Was there something misleading about it? Was it a lie?

After Gen. Betrayus' testimony yesterday, I don't think so. The truth hurts, but it is the truth. If people don't like it, it's too bad. I'm tired of us apologizing for the little things, when they never apologize for ANYTHING.

We have NOTHING to apologize for, regarding the MoveOn ad. Nothing. It just happens to be a statement of truth. Maybe that's what makes the republi-CONS recoil in disgust, like so many snails before a salt shaker or Dracula at the first sign of daybreak. They can't stand the truth. Especially when they're so heavily invested in its opposite. They, on the other hand have that list in the OP, and thousands more crimes, deceits, and affronts they've committed, for which they owe EVERYONE multiple apologies.

Stated appropriately.

For calling an ambitiuos career military officer a liar? For telling the truth?

In contrast to your list, which begs apology.
On the other hand, we should apologize for Rep. Skelton.

OW! MY FINGERS!!!

It actually hurt to type that. :puke:

Thank you. We need much much more of this kind of thing.

and why doesn't the OP send this to Harry Reid and say why don't you speak this on the Senate Floor, and remove the talking head idiots, but say the rest as typed!


it needs spoken... has it been, in any form?

fast.

What a nice surprise.

Thank you.

for the MoveOn ad, but it was still a dumb distraction. Just because something is "the truth" doesn't mean one should utter it. "It's the framing, stupid."

Oh yeah, and name calling in an ad designed to call attention to some sober realities, is a great way for nothing about the ad to get across except the cutsy inference that Petraeus is a traitor. Why not just call him General Poopiehead? It's only one level or so dumber.

RL

but a betrayal of the People of the U.S. and the Earth?

Yes, that asshole in uniform sure did that...

why apologize they haven't done anything wrong?

No doubt they've offended some other republicans too.

Yeah, you're right, they haven't done anything wrong. :D

removed his diapers?

no seriously, the GOP have been pretty predictable on this?

Jerome Corsi
The rest of the Swift Boat Liars
The Purple Heart band-aids

Fortunately, I read further. Great post. Thanks for cranking up my normal ambient rage level a couple of notches.


wp

for one fat second, jmowreader!

I am sure the list is far from complete.

in relation to the whining over the MoveOn ad...

:grr:

Just because someone is a 'general' does not mean that they are immune from parody, ridicule or criticism.

Betrayus has become a foil, a parrot for Bush to hide behind. I'm not buying it. I'm calling bullshit on it. It is all about stringing this stinky war mess on until Bush is out of office and can blame it on someone else. And Betrayus is utterly complicit in the entire clusterfuck

See: General Colin Powell and his mass of lies at the U.N. that helped get us into this goddamned mess.

Gen. Betrayus no. 1 is General Colin Powell.

And although you mentioned a couple of scandals and crimes she was involved in, I think they should also apologize for evil Katherine Harris. She knew what she was doing was wrong and she really enjoyed it. She should be in prison.

Neither we nor moveon has anything to apologize for.

but the more I think about it the more pissed I get....

For how long has the right wing pukes questioned our patriotism for opposing the war - accused us of not supporting the troops - I see ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with the moveon ad - they simply asked the question had Petraeus Betrayed Us followed by documentation as to why what he was saying was more than questionable....

Moveon owes no apology - what they did was not STUPID - nor do we or any Dem have to distance ourselves from the remarks - the bottom line is they can't argue with the facts so they are making and issue of the ad and I for one wish they would shut the fuck up....

OK there goes my blood pressure.....

Sounds easy enough, when you put it like that.

But so few people recognize what we are up against, truly and without exaggeration...The Kinder and Gentler Nazis.

for anything. Noooooo. Yes, they have far more to be sorry about than we do. Anybody ever apologize to, John Kerry, for the Swiftboat campaign?

Jesus christ! :eyes:

This is out of Tom DeLay's book No Retreat, No Surrender:

He told a room full of reporters that he forced the shutdown because Clinton had rudely made him and Bob Dole sit at the back of Air Force One...Newt had been careless to say such a thing, and now the whole moral tone of the shutdown had been lost. What had been a noble battle for fiscal sanity began to look like the tirade of a spoiled child..The revolution, I can tell you, was never the same.

The incident was the trip back from Israel following Yitzhak Rabin's funeral. Clinton's a better man than I, because I would have had the fucker come back to the US on a Navy garbage scow...as a member of the crew.

Freakin' pathetic! Newt is such a joke.

K&R

Why are the Democrats always the ones who are trying to make nice?

Tom Delay, Justice Sunday, "The Cat Killer" Frist!

Hastert, Allen, all the one's that just got voted out!

Brownie and Katrina!! Gonzo!!

-----------------

Great post!! :)

K & R'd

I agree with the sentiment but we are playing their game.

Rethuglicons--"Apologize for moveon.org"

Dem--"Wha?"

Rethug-- APOLOGIZE

Dem--"for uhm er what?"

Rethug--"Apologize"

DLC pondscum--- "Yes it is a pity that the democrats are held hostage to the Netiacs"

Rethug-- "Apologize"

Average DU poster--- (see aforementioned post by jmowreader) or merelely "Aw Hell no!"

------------

But the problem is that we are still playing their game. Of course I am all for having this up my sleeve as a quick and dirty retort, but the real answer is: "When are the troops coming home to their friends and loved ones?"

:grr:

Voter purges and voter suppression!

The Voting Rights Act was one of our shining moments. All over America on web sites by county and state boards of elections, you can find a copy of the stupid "Help" (sic) America (not) Vote Act but rarely if ever do you see the Voting Rights Act or other enabling Federal voting legislation.

Glad my presence stimulates positive neuronal activity;)

:hi:

:P

Yes there has been voter suppression but it was blatant in '00 & '04!

I worked with a voting rights group and saw the stats and the reports.

Voter ID, precinct "centralization," cop cars at the polling places, investigations before the election, scare tactics, etc. Sounds like you got a great education.

rides for voters all over the country. I walked the 'beat' in NH
to get out the vote and connect people there with rides and get
them registered. I had to vote absentee so I could do all that
but it was fun! That was for the presidential and I also worked
on a local senate campaign at the same time and held signs outside,
gathered the signs later, after polls closed and went to a party
to watch the returns! It was quite a week!! ;)

It is fun. In that lowly job, you're on your feet all day. The first time I did it, I had a bunch of people driving around knocking on the doors of marginal voters early then late. Scheduling was really good but forgot to schedule relief for me! So I saw everything in 2005. It's great seeing people come out to make a statement, which in my state was no more right wing screw balls. My precinct went from 50-50 in 2004 to 65-30 something in 2005 and 2006. Quite a statement. People are fed up. But the state (Virginia) still has 200,000 minority males unable to vote due to felon disenfranchisement. It's a disgrace and the state party does damn little about it.

I can't imagine we have to apologize for anything said about Betrayus. I heard even some Dems criticized the ad. What is up with these people?

Yesterday, MoveOn members sponsored an ad in the New York Times debunking Petraeus' claims.

Click here to see the ad—and the evidence to back it up:
http://pol.moveon.org/petraeus.html?id=11221-2919065-kkHvDD&t=4

Oh wait, nevermind. I get it. The neo-cons are allergic to facts. No wonder they hate it. And what Dems didn't like it? I'd love to give them a piece of my mind.

Maybe they think that no one has been paying attention these last 6 years?

Patraeus knows that Bush is setting him up as the fall guy and he willingly plays the role. He knows that no, "surge," is going to fix Iraq. It's just another delaying tactic. How many years have we heard, "we just need six more months?"

:kick:

20,000-plus Americans with their lives ruined because of irreparable combat wounds. (Not to mention how many Iraqis in the same condition.)

Excellent post. Recommended.

Redstone

MoveOn.org ain't the Democratic Party.

to try and get people bickering about insignificant things because then they can get away with all their nonsense when no one is paying attention to the real issues.

Called out in the house for the Dems to denounce the ad,

just like they did with the purple hearts! :sarcasm:

Difference is -- Moveon tells the truth.

to say we support the troops - when we attack the #1 soldier

It is all true, what is in the ad!

-----------

Yesterday, MoveOn members sponsored an ad in the New York Times debunking Petraeus' claims.

Click here to see the ad—and the evidence to back it up:
http://pol.moveon.org/petraeus.html?id=11221-2919065-kkHvDD&t=4

The ad stirred a controversy on Capitol Hill—it accuses Petraeus of "cooking the books."
And it charges that Petraeus is betraying the American peoples' trust by spinning the
facts to support the White House. Some Democrats were uncomfortable with such strong
language, and Republicans attacked MoveOn.

We're sure if we'd run an ad debunking Colin Powell's testimony in 2003, they would
have done the same thing—but sometimes it's important to set the facts straight.

SOURCES
1. Washington Post, "Petraeus Backs Initial Pullout," 9/11/07
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2958&id=11221-2919065-kkHvDD&t=5 2. Ibid.
3. New York Times, "Time to Take a Stand," 9/7/07
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2941&id=11221-2919065-kkHvDD&t=6
4. Washington Post, "Experts Doubt Drop in Violence in Iraq," 9/6/07
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2938&id=11221-2919065-kkHvDD&t=7
5. ABC News, "Iraqis' Own Surge Assessment," 9/10/07
http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=3571504
6. Washington Post, "Experts Doubt Drop in Violence in Iraq," 9/6/07
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2938&id=11221-2919065-kkHvDD&t=8
7. Associated Press, "1,809 Iraqi civilians killed in August," 9/1/07
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20543737/
8. Los Angeles Times, "Iraqi civilian deaths climb again," 9/1/07
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2956&id=11221-2919065-kkHvDD&t=9
9. http://www.iCasualties.org
10. Washington Post, "Among Top Officials, 'Surge' Has Sparked Dissent, Infighting," 9/9/07
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2957&id=11221-2919065-kkHvDD&t=10
11. Washington Post, "Scarier than Bin Laden," 9/9/07
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2959&id=11221-2919065-kkHvDD&t=11

He's no soldier (anymore)- he's a puppet, bought and paid for.

Fuck, I once knew a guy in Nashville who tried to convince me that criticizing Bush himself is the same thing as criticizing the troops, since W's the "commander in chief" and thus, like, uh, the "head troop"...or something. Like he could take actual combat! :rofl:

Dude was fulla shit and I bet he's sitting in his den, eating Cheetos right now, wondering where his righteousness went.

He's not the number one soldier... he's Bush's YES MAN who is paid to keep the ACTUAL troops stuck there however long his boss likes.

:puke:

that to date I still cannot believe anyone can be a Repug with behavior like that.

:puke:

If there was any hope they would reform their ideology back to some sense of decency they lost it there.

Makes no sense to me. :shrug:

...is with a hard punch in the nose, followed by several more of the same.




note: I've been reading me some Smedley D. Butler lately,
and it's having an effect.

War is a racket, and the GOP are its chief racketeers.

...and David Petraeus is a frikkin' liar who betrays
his own troops for politics.

You can bet Petraeus will quit the military before any
Democratic President is in office.
That's a guarantee.
He is partisan scum.

He serves Bu$hCo.
And no one else (except perhaps his own greed).

I've got a strong feeling Petraeu$ is getting some mighty
substantial deposit$ made into a secret foreign bank account,
or 2. Or 3.

Unless, of course, you are referring to the scandal of Republicans trying to find/create a Whitewater scandal from thin air...

and Reaganism

All who gave should be extremely proud. As far as General Betrayus goes his credibility was lacking to start with due to his past statements and the fact that if Bush likes him he has to be a "yes" man otherwise he wouldn't have the job. After Colin Powell we should all know that just because you sport a bunch of ribbons doesn't make you the voice of truth. All MOveOn member deserve a pat on the back! Good job.

K&R

lots of great free publicity from several GOP senators. :toast:

One more HUGE apology needed for Terry Schiavo.

until they apologize for their treatment of Cindy Sheehan, who has fought harder for our freedom than General Betrayus, and has never caused the death of any of our brothers and sisters....

Great Ad!

anyway.

k&r.

Treasonous no-good outfit; and Ann Coulter needs to apoligize just for living..:evilfrown: :evilfrown:

The truth hurts, now the assholes can choke on it.

If the don't like the ad, they can suck it.

Wait. That's Galaxyquest. :shrug:

:patriot:

your comparison might be amusing or relevant.

fucking a, well said.

:D

I hate to say it but I was watching that crap show between Daily Show commercials and his exact words when O'Leilly said to do something about MoveOn were "we're gonna go after them."

That's funny stuff! :rofl:

That is the most major one in my opinion. Phillip Cooney's little editions, James Hansen's testimony, the list is endles...

I AM SORRY THERE ARE REPUBLICANS
I AM SORRY THEY ARE SLOW TO SEE THE BIG PICTURE
I AM SORRY THEY HAVE BEEN FOOLED INTO BELIEVING THAT THEY STILL HAVE A SHOT AT "THE AMERICAN DREAM"
I AM SORRY THEY DON'T REALIZE IT IS ONLY A "DREAM"
I AM SORRY BUSH IS PRESIDENT
I AM SORRY HE HAS ALCOHOL AND DRUG PROBLEMS
I AM SORRY HE CAN'T TELL AUSTRALIA FROM AUSTRIA, NATO FROM CATO, IRAQ FROM IRAN OR LAURA FROM CONDOLEZZZZA
I AM SORRY DICK CHENEY HAS HIS HEAD STUCK IN HIS UNDISCLOSED LOCATION
I AM SORRY RUMMY EVER EXISTED
I AM SORRY COLIN LOST HIS BALLS AND BETRAYED HIS ARMY
I AM SORRY TONY SNOWJOB CAN'T TELL THE TRUTH
I AM SORRY REPUBLICANS CAN'T GET A GOOD BLOWJOB WITHOUT SOMEONE KICKING IN THE STALL DOOR
I AM SORRY ANN COULTER HAS A DICK AND AN ADAMS APPLE

OH YES..... BLAH BLAH BLAH SORRY SOMEONE WAS OFFENDED BY AN AD

Except the FEAR --
The Democrats still FEAR the GOP propaganda machine --
and maybe even behind it the strange stuff that happens to Democrats -- like Anthrax attacks and
plane crashes --

If we actually did something embarassing or even remotely wrong, this would be a valid discussion.

So far, we should ENDORSE the ad...

A good list. I gave it a rec.

:kick:

vs Paul Hackett and Victoria Wulsin; Warren County’s Board of Elections' lockout during vote counting in 2004, which county officials claimed to be the result of a Homeland Security alert.

Politization of NASA, for Christ's sake

Fundie takeover of the Air Force - "The Nukes go marching one by one, hurrah HURRAY!"

I know Lucianne's on the list, but let's not forget Linda "rat" Tripp

Paul Wellstone and John F Kennedy Jr.

"We, the members and directors of MoveOn, wish to apologize.

"We apologize to the world for our corrupt president, the worst the world has ever seen.

"We apologize that he has managed to so damage the military, no competent general who Bush hasn't fired already will accept a combat command from him--an event unprecedented in American history.

"We apologize that the only general who's willing to throw his career away on the killing fields of Iraq is a staff officer with a long, hard-won track record of being able to get through an assignment without pissing anyone off, and no record of any ingenuity or audacity on the field of battle.

"We apologize that the only way this general could 'prove' his operational plan worked was to alter definitions past any semblance of their original meanings.

"We apologize for our Democratic congressional majority. If there was a lick of patriotism in any of them, they'd have relieved General Betray Us and impeached the entire executive branch long before now. There's certainly enough evidence to back it up.

"The ad? We don't apologize for that. We stand behind every word in it."

... also seems more than fair to kick and REC this!


:kick:

NO way does the truth need to be apologized for. Anyone who thinks so should get their friggin head examined or put down the pipe

I was all ready to tear you a new one too...

over a newspaper ad rather than because men, women and children are dying needlessly on the other side of the world. I'm sick of everything . . . absolutely everything . . . having a political motive. Why can't these people just do what is right? Just for once.

Not because the add is untrue but because it's immature.

Insulting one's name with a word play is a rather low form of argument.

The half that agrees says that the republics should apologize for their lies and surrogate liars.

Then, after they've apologized...

Screw 'em. I've done nothing to apologize for.

...a large part of its 3.0 million membership base are registered democrats and independents. From the Moveon.org description:

"Every member has a voice in choosing the direction for both MoveOn.org Political Action and MoveOn.org Civic Action. Using our ActionForum software, you can propose priorities and strategies. Both organizations also take the initiative to organize quick action on other timely issues that our members care about."

So, members can voice their approval or disapproval of any actions taken by the organization.

I don't see why we would apologize for anything at this point. I can't believe that the GOP has the nerve to think they are in any position to demand ANYTHING from ANYONE! They have been a disservice to the country and several other countries and they have the nerve to tell us that we owe them something?

You reap what you sow GOP, and the harvest seasons right around the corner.

I don't know where the current 'fad' for mass apologizing came from, but it smells of left over 'touchy-feely;. whatever its source it still doesn't extend to apologing fro SOMEONE else! Sheesh! How about the whole damn population immediately go out into the streets and start apologizing for everything that someones else has done. How about Aunt Maude in Podunk, Iowa apologizing fro the murder of a crack whore in Newark, NJ by her pimp? Exaggeration? Not a bit, fits the parameters perfectly.

sheesh!

In the end "truth will out".
Once again the right wing is trying to distract from the truth and too many Democrats as usually are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

It's the same stupid dance over and over again. Just bang your head against the wall for awhile and you get an idea of what it's like to support some of these numbskulls.

Registered Rethuglican

Whether you think the ad is right or wrong, why should you apologize for something you had nothing to do with.

I'm sorry * is an asshole

I'm sorry he used to be a drunk and did drugs

I'm sorry that the Washington Post printed an editorial that you don't agree with



When will it end?? Apologize for things that you should apologize for, but don't apologize for something that you have no control over. If they want an apology, get it from Move-on (and good luck).

I chose to not read it when it first appeared.
Then it hit the greatest page and I knew something was up.
Well said, my friend.