Veganism's new martyr...

Dave Warwak's campaign to teach his 8th-grade art students about the evils of an omnivorous lifestyle is officially over the top.

Warwak, who says he was removed from his McHenry County classroom last week by the "ardent meat eaters" who run Fox River Grove District 3, had predicted he would be fired at a Monday meeting with his bosses. That didn't happen, but Warwak now says he won't return to work unless the school cafeteria goes vegan, eliminating meat, milk and other "poisons" from the menu. He also wants the state's attorney to charge the district with child endangerment.

That's several notches above last week's complaint, which was that the Fox River Thought Police were running amok. Although you had to wonder why the 8th-grade art curriculum was so heavy on nutrition and ethics, it did seem like overkill for a middle school principal to chide a teacher for sharing ideas or literature meant "to influence the students against our school lunch program."



Some parents and teachers have been dismayed by the art teacher's fixation on veganism. In the spring, Warwak created a fetching 3-D model featuring marshmallow Peeps confined to cages, run over by trucks and otherwise abused by humans. Last week, he passed out copies of "The Food Revolution," John Robbins' treatise on factory farming, after school officials refused to remove the "Got Milk?" posters from the cafeteria.


more at: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/content/education/chi-0912edit2sep12,0,2861981.story

Even despite the fact that vegans stand for pro-environmental action and preservation (less meat, less heat), against massive agribusiness animal cruelty factory farms, and against the poisons that massive agribusiness corporations pour into our environment, still we hate them here.

Amazing how reactionary propaganda infiltrates even those here.

pointing to the canine teeth. The ad read, "Hey vegetarians, what do you think these are for?"

I am a vegetarian and I wondered why a magazine would go to the trouble of doing an ad like that. I don't know any vegetarians or vegans who give out as much crap as they get.

Why does someone not wanting to eat meat threaten others?

The teacher in the post is over the top and doesn't represent the majority of vegans.

Elementary and Middle school I can say from personal experience that in no way to vegetarians/vegans give out as much crap as they get. I never understood while some people (and not just kids either, but middle age adults) had such a problem with what my diet was. Honestly, it was (and still is) unbelievable.

and when it is suggested that animals deserve respect and decent treatment, it pulls the rug out from under them, because if they're not better than animals, who are they better than? they can't handle that.

Superiority over animals, their fellow humans, inanimate objects (especially machines), whatever's handy. I'm starting to believe that the urge to prove our superiority is a trait we're born with.

You know, those things people clip and file on occasion, and that some women paint various colors?

Seriously, if that's the kind of moronic shit they publish in a hunting magazine, hunters must be laughing their asses off.

as someone who's been a vegetarian since about 1990, and who has never told anyone else what to eat or not eat, I am not surprised. I liken it to how my friends acted when I gave up drinking for a little while - they took it personally and gave me crap about it even though I did so for personal reasons, still hung out with them, and did not even mention it unless they asked. It's sad really how many times people have given me really mean crap about what I choose to eat/drink/wear when it has no bearing on their decisions. I don't believe in being preachy, and honestly feel I cannot even discuss the subject with most people because they generally instantly get defensive.

What's funny about the teeth thing is that if you truly compare our canine teeth to a carnivore, they are completely different. I have no problem with the idea that we are omnivores, even though I think as a culture we consume more meat/animal products than we should for a variety of reasons, but to pretend we have the physical traits necessary to bring down an animal and eat it raw is kind of silly as well. Like most of the great apes, we can eat almost anything, but those teeth are more accurately tied to defense/offense/display than in eating meat. Then again, we also have the capability of doing all sorts of things that we don't need to do as well. It's my choice to not eat meat.

Oh well. I personally feel this guy may have gone too far, but it's hard to know if the paper's story is accurate either.

That was an idiotic ad in that hunting mag. I also agree that vegetarians and vegans get far more crap than they give out. However, as you say, that teacher went way over the top. And actions like that are just as inane as that stupid ad in the hunting mag.

reactionary propaganda?

:rofl:

:eyes:

n/t

you mentioned.

These people obviously need some PR work

But I never crammed it down anyone's throat - so to speak. And I don't make vegans feel bad because they don't eat meat.

Can't imagine why DUers would take offense at that...

:eyes:

:P

It's funny, because "we" don't agree on anything as a group, but some of us insist upon speaking for everyone.

Seriously. He's supposed to be teaching art, not his idea of 'nutrition'. What if he was an anti-choice zealot shoving his ideology on his 8th grade art students. Would it be okay if we 'demonized' him then?

Run your own life, choose your own diet, and extend to other people the courtesy of letting them run and choose theirs.

I highly doubt too many vegans are "demonized" for not eating meat. They're criticized for telling OTHER people what to eat, when they are unable to refrain from endless proseltyzing about the "good news" of not eating meat, hectoring other people about their diets, etc.

Just like Fundy Christians are very rarely criticized for what they believe themselves. Usually it's when they're trying to impose those beliefs, teach a bunch of creationist claptrap in public school science classes, etc. that they become targets for criticism.

Of course, if you can't understand the difference between these two senteces:

"Meat eating is bad, so I don't eat meat"

and

"Meat eating is bad, so YOU don't eat meat"

you're never gonna fucking get it.

that there is a particular class of vegans out there who sound exactly like certain Christian fundies in their philosophical approach to "spreading the gospel"? Only the words are changed, but the martyrdom remains the same.

It goes like this: "if you don't allow us to control your religion/diet, that means that we are being oppressed. Help, help! We're being oppressed by all of the evil non-fundies/carnivores who won't let us impose our will on them!!! This country/school board/internet forum is hateful and biased against the one true way/the one true way."

The only difference between them is that the nutjob brand of vegans don't have friends in high places, so they get fired when they want to put prayer...er...tofu in schools. :evilgrin:

ON EDIT: I know some vegetarians who are not crazy. I am not critizing all vegetarians/vegans or implying that everyone who eschews meat is crazy or fundie. I am only critcizing the fundie ones. Of which there are some. On this board even, although I will not point them out by name. I also do not care if someone only eats vegetables. They are welcome to eat whatever makes them happy and I won't say a word about it. I only care if they do not then extend me the same courtesy. And if you are the kind of vegetarian/vegan who is prone to getting your panties in a knot about people criticizing the gentleman in this article, you should ask yourself whether they are criticizing his meatlessness or his ardor which extends to telling other people what they should and should not eat. You should also ask yourself if maybe what you perceive as criticism about your vegan lifestyle is not so much concern about what you are putting in your mouth as it it is concern about what you are trying to make other people put in their mouths. Just a thought.

When I do, it's generally free range, organic, etc. And I haven't eaten red meat in years.

But if there's one over-arching principle I try to adhere to, it's that people should run their own damn lives instead of trying to run everyone else's.

:eyes:

Many modern people, especially in America, harm their bodies by eating far too much meat. Now that we know that live stock contributes so much to global warming we should obviously cut waaaay back. But the fact that meat has historically (ie before modern farming and transportation) been the rarest and most sought after food should give vegans a clue. Without modern diet supplements and a truly global variety of crops to choose from a meatless diet is not healthy, people have evolved to live off some meat.

So, if propaganda consists of lies meant to scare people into doing something unwise, it would appear that the vegans who have tried to convince me people are actually herbivores are propagandists as well.

Edited because I'm in the mood for Katz's

Delicious feelings!

"yummy"

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Cat is a white meat.

Oh you mean... Nevermind.

I can't get behind that statement - nor do I understand it. Bizarre.

Btw, we just had roast chicken for lunch. Mmmm....mmmm!

:9

:rofl:

badoom tiss!

*runs*

OOPS.

yup.
:hi:

n/t

Oh still tasty after all these years :)

Just as I don't want some religious extremist foisting his personal views on my kids at school, I don't want some vegan extremist doing the same.

"To each his own"??? Doesn't anyone remember that saying anymore?

Mr. Warwick needs to find another line of work or work for a private school.

Because God forbid we cross that line between the separation of Food and State.

(I'm sorry... I said the word, "God". Oops-- did it again. Hate it when I accidentally force it down people's throats.)

Sticking one's nose into any of my personal/social habits isn't the way to win me over, be it my choice of whether to be spiritual or not, my diet (I'm nearly vegan as it happens for health reasons), my sexual choices, and my entertainment preferences.

The school should offer vegan choices--but if Mr. Warwack is going to demand his students learn a "lifestyle" choice, those parents have every right to bitch.

what if he were pushing Jesus, Satan, or Mohammed to a captive audience?

Hey, Warwack! You don't get to push your version of morality on anyone but yourself!

Hey, I don't feel great when I eat meat and I'm horribly lactose intolerant, which cuts dairy out. However, even I won't call them POISONS.

I hope he gets some help. He needs it.

He was there to TEACH ART, not to indoctrinate the children
under his authority with his personal beliefs. If he can't
or won't grasp that concept, he shouldn't be in charge of
children.

Vegans will never be right. They are in the same league as the people who believe Earth is 6000 years old.

We have a digestion system that evolved for the consumption of both plant and animal, period. It's why we have canine teeth and a long intestine.

"Vegans will never be right."

That's like saying people who have certain opinions are wrong.

"They are in the same league as the people who believe Earth is 6000 years old. "

Or... people who misrepresent veganism.

:shrug:

I'm referring only to those who say humans are not meant to eat meat or that it is "immoral" in some way.

There's nothing in the evolution of our digestive tract that says its moral. Again, that's an opinion.

But to say that it's immoral to eat animals is like saying it's immoral to breathe. Carnivores eat meat, herbivores eat plants, and omnivores eat both. We are omnivores. That's not opinion, that's fact.

Just because it's biological doesn't mean it's moral. Gang rape, murder, and cannibalism are biological, Chimpanzees are observed doing it all the time, that doesn't mean it's moral.

I don't know how true your assertion of gang rape, murder, or cannibalism being biological is, but I can concede on that point.

Via sex (obviously), elimination of competitors, and a high protein diet.

Our guts are specifically designed to digest anything that our teeth are able to grind up finely enough to swallow. We were not made to eat meat, nor were we made to eat vegetables. We were made to eat whatever happened to be around when we got hungry.

Morality is a construct of the mind. Is eating meat moral? Nah, it's amoral. The treatment of and attitude toward where that meat came from is where the morality comes from. This of course, does render eating most meat immoral these days, since I can think of few instances of animal abuse more egregious than mass-produced meat.

Some of them jusst want us all to eat like they do. Let's be fair now.

:thumbsup:

since meat must digest quickly or become putrid in the intestine. BTW, I ain't a vegan, but I do eat meat with my eyes wide open...but the new aspect re: global warming might change my eating habits. More pasta, with meat sauce, rather than steak and potatoes?

I don't eat meat because I think it is unhealthy no matter what my guts or teeth look like. Vegetarians don't get as much colon cancer or diabetes as meat eaters do. I choose to decrease my risk of those diseases by not eating meat.



I don't care what other people eat. I care about what I eat.

along with the environmental damage done by factory farming, etc.

talking to an Iraq vet and found that they both had a lot to agree on.

The loonies mainly get us angry with each other even though we haven't really engaged each other yet.

But must of us don't put them on display like this.

clearly have natural urges to do these things.

Most vegans and vegetarians aren't looking to be "right"...in fact, most of us would settle for not being mocked and called names by the likes of you.

Please, eat what you want, but leave us the fuck alone.

what we can eat, not what we should eat.

:shrug:

Fucking PETA. And vampires.

and also kidding around too.

One that happens to be completely full of shit.

No disrespect to vegans, or teachers.

there is a difference.

Excellent timing, my friend!

:rofl:

with no editorial comment.

It's tough to take but this is a vital DU discussion we are having!

Tune in next week for the "is a penis more like polish kielbasa or swedish korv?" debate.

Do you leave your house?

it isn't completely accepting of my tendency to treat fanaticism and stupid replies with humor.

We're constantly casting asparagus over here.

and anti-conspiracy theorist too.

And anti-Israeli
Anti-Palistinian
Anti-Abortion
Anti-Choice
Anti-Hillary
Anti-Obama
Anti-Gun
Anti-Gun Control
etc
etc
etc

In fact, if you've been here a while, and you're not offended by something that someone has posted, you just plain don't have a real opinion on anything at all.

Sid

:eyes:

The day DU goes paying members only, I'll gladly stop visiting. Hopefully that be around the time your post might make any sense :).

not so distasteful to you that you avoid using it.

Those are some funky ethics.

Ass.

:rofl:

:spray:

And there are absolutely no pranksters on DU, of that I'm thoroughly convinced.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

...because I'm flat broke. :blush:

Works for me :D!

life on a budget... sigh.

though i'm curious why this is a big issue. it's just some lone nut having a meltdown. it can happen in any human population. hell, browse Star Wars forums...

now if PETA made him some sort of cause celeb that'd be worthwhile of discussion. it would be the elevation of a lone individual meltdown into a sort of ideal to emulate. but since that's not happening, who cares? some people hate the color fuchsia and fear manganese miners will take over the world -- they're mostly harmless and represent no one but themselves.

edit: sigh... spoke too soon. knew i should've read the article in full. but i thought, these groups can't be that stupid to make the SNAFUS of overzealous noobs into info campaigns, right? well, boy was i wrong. sig, new management people! need people who know how to pick their battles! though the free lunch was nice -- if it began and ended there it might've had a far more positive effect. oh well, there goes my sensible expectations meter again; damn thing's been out of tune since 2000, no idea why....

well?

Well I guess it's time to search for a new job!:eyes:

But not eliminate meat, eggs, cheese, etc. entirely. The fact is most people are not vegan, and it doesn't make sense to force them into a vegan diet, just as it isn't fair to force vegans to eat animal products.

When offered a vegetarian choice, many people often take it. I know that I do, and I'm not a vegetarian (yet - but getting very, very close).

I tend to get violent feelings about people like this fellow. Perhaps i should say people like the article makes him out to be. I have no idea how he may truly be.

Sounds like you may have just as many issues as he does.

Way to grasp at straws. The plain truth is most folks have violent feelings from time to time. The important thing is whether or not, or how we act on them.

Where's the punchline?

It's not his job to indoctrinate children into his own political issue. Then to go as far as charging the district with child endangerment? What kind of bullshit is this moron trying to accomplish?

I'm no fan of the vegans, but this event sets them back 10 years.

Most Vegetarians I know are perfectly normal people, EXCEPT for the Vegan ones. Veganism is a fucking fundamentalist religion.

doesn't have some dairy in it. I don't want to go limiting myself that much. I think in his book "Be Here Now" Ram Dass talks about how he use to break down and eat a pizza once in a while. My inspiration!
But I'm so glad that I won't be turning into a fanatic just staying vegetarian. You are right, no one likes a fanatic no matter what the cause!

They've got the flavor about right and the mouth feel is improving, too.

Sprinkle on enough fresh basil or oregano and you probably won't be able to tell a huge difference.

It's probably at least as unhealthy as full fat mozzarella is, though.

perhaps you have met rational vegans and did not even know they were vegans. A lot of my friends don't know I am a vegetarian because I don't broadcast it because I am sick of bigots giving me crap about it when they do find out.

Replace "vegan" in your sentence with any other group, such as "gay" or "black" or "women" and see how it sounds. It's ridiculous.

I say this because I do know many rational vegans who do not discuss it unless asked about it and see it as a personal choice.

Not trying to be a jerk, but perhaps you could try to be a bit less prejudiced. :)

it's still prejudiced. How would people respond if I said "every Christian/Jew/Muslim/Buddhist/Pastafarian is a fanatic" or something similar that is based on choice?

EDIT: replaced fundamentalist with fanatic

People of all religions have been/are attacked, hurt or killed, while vegans have not suffered for their beliefs to the same extent.

Having said that, I don't care if someone is a meat-eater, vegetarian, vegan, etc., provided they don't push it on everybody else.

(and frankly vegetarianism itself dates back to Ancient Greece at least), there's still a prejudice toward vegetarians, but I guess that's ok for some. And no, I do not necessarily mean you. And if you want to say they don't count because they have not suffered, I could counter that Vegans have also not caused nearly the amount of suffering that people have caused in the name of any of those religions. I don't recall John Robbins telling people to go out and kill entire cities or that it's ok to enslave other people the way the Bible says.

This is a ridiculous analogy pissing match though. I guess only two others agree that the post I was first responding to:

was at the very least condescending and generalized based on the person's stereotype of vegans. Also that the same statement made about almost any other group would not be tolerated. But whatever. Sadly, I am used to it.

People being killed for their religion vs. vegetarians/vegans being mocked on a message board. Big difference.

Also, re: the statement you quoted, I do disagree with it.

it's ok to mock them and generalize them? Sweet.

What if I pick a religion that is about equal in being killed and killing others? Does it balance out like a spreadsheet?

I told you I disagreed with the "vegan fanatic" comment and also don't care what someone's dietary choices are.

What I disagreed with was your analogy equating anti-vegetarian/vegan remarks with anti-religion remarks, when anti-religious sentiment carries a significantly higher risk of causing harm than anti-vegetarian/vegan remarks, even if said religion has no dead victims, if you want to harp on that point.

I am just being a smart alec at this point. Happy Friday!

Happy Friday! :toast:

It is, however, not too much to ask that DUers not refer to other DUers as "fanatics" and "fucking fundamentalists."

Unpossible's analogies may have swung pretty wide of the mark, but the remarks s/he responded to are prejudiced and deeply unkind. I don't know if s/he is vegan, but I am, and it kind of sucks to find this kind of thing routinely on DU.


So, the most direct and transferable analogy: Meat-eaters are not normal people. All of them are fanatics and meat-eating is a fucking fundamentalist religion.

Ew, really, who would say something like that? And do you think the mods would let something like that stand?

..and sometimes he's the only candidate that voices my values. But I know what you're saying, he's among the exceptions.

and some vegans who are. The ratio tends to be about the same, though.

Of course, I don't go around making sweeping, nasty statements about either, so YMMV.

I think the basic root of the problem is that some people are assholes no matter what they believe in or do.

Maybe you have too. Maybe the 'perfectly normal' vegans didn't have any reason to let you know about their diet or preach at you about yours.

that compromise those principles! Like the fundies who dispense birth control pills at pharmacies, then tell women they won't fill their prescriptions because it's against the will of God. What's the difference between them and this teach Warwak?

When he agreed to teach at this school, was the cafeteria not serving meat and dairy products then? Is this just something they decided to do in the last 3 weeks? Ferchrissakes, Idiot, GET A FUCKING JOB at an organic farm, or with Greenpeace or something that won't mess with your sensibilities!

And before anyone gets all over me, I've been vegetarian for 31 years, and in that time I've NEVER told another soul how they should eat. I've surely been harassed about my own diet, and I've teased my carnivorous friends, but nothing preachy or prostelytizing. It does nothing to help anyone's cause, and individuals will make their own decisions without my interference.

killed by senisible replies...

:thumbsup:

:rofl:

..in relation to me....


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


(Maybe it's the broccoli!)

If it was the broccoli it would be making scents...........

(rim shot)

:hide:

He's an over the top n00b.

It's like they're trying to convince themselves by being firebrands to the rest of the world.

Like I said, I was never that way about meat-eating, but when I quit smoking (about 2 years after I was already vegetarian--go figure that hypocricy!) I was insufferable. I still despise cigarettes, but unless something is affecting me directly, I don't comment about people's personal habits. We all have our foibles, we all come to our own reckonings in our own times. It's very arrogant to insist the rest of the world thinks as we do, and it gives a bad name to liberals everywhere!

(edited because of the apostrophe in the wrong place in "People's" I hate making stupid English mistakes!)

having witnessed a number of folks go vegetarian/vegan, ESPECIALLY for animal rights-esque reasons, many tend to spend their first few months getting all fired up. They read everything they can get their hands on, watch the vids, donate to PETA, HSUS, go to protests. Their outrage-ometer is off the charts, and they try this type of stuff.

The "making the cafeteria vegan" was what made me automatically think he was new to this.

Recently converted folks (converted to anything) are sometimes unreasonable and a bit too strident. I can appreciate conversions, but occasionally the newbies get a little carried away. Truth.

I owe you a beer.

and this is just from my own experience, and observation of people I've known. Maybe it's not just a phase; but even so, it helps raise consciousness...so good for the teacher.

eat meat. "I wish she'd eat some," she says, as if I was about to dry up and blow away -- not. I never try to get anyone else to change, but if they ask me why, I'll tell them why I'm a vegetarian. I don't think I could go vegan.

I only pack meat in my kids' lunches.

NOT this teacher. What would be his next step if he succeeded in forcing the school cafeteria to go vegan? Visit every student's home and coerce the parents into the same behavior? And what about kids who bring lunch from home?

Then I'd ask for his resignation. I can't stand fanaticism of any stripe. To me, this is just as bad as some fundie idiot handing out Bibles and talking to public school kids about Jesus in his art class.

As for demanding that the school cafeteria go vegan, well, his right to be meatless ends where my lunch begins. I think it would be reasonable to provide some vegetarian options for students who don't or can't eat meat. However, he doesn't get to tell all the horrible heartless carnivores what they can eat for lunch.

As for whether vegetarians/vegans are generally obnoxious as a class of people, well, I can't speak to that. But I can tell you that I dated a vegan once (once was enough) who won the award for being the single most irritating boyfriend I ever had. I never once demanded that he try my steak, or harrassed him about his tofu. Because truthfully, I could give a shit what he ate. Not my business. But I don't think we ever had a single meal together where he didn't harrass me about my choices and try to convince me to order some non-meat option. I finally dumped him because it was either that or leap across the table and strangle him the next time he eyeballed my steak disapprovingly or gave me some long-winded lecture. The worst part was that he wasn't even vegan because of animal rights issues, which I could have sort of understood. No, he was vegan for nutritional reasons. Which made it even worse that he was pestering me endlessly about it. If I worried that much about all of the bad things everyone around me was consuming on a daily basis I'd go nuts. And I'd probably make them nuts too. Anyway, I think this guy just had control issues and veganism was a good outlet for exercising those issue on unsuspecting others. I probably should just have been grateful it was food and not Bibles...

I probably would have strangled him on the first date.

Fanatics suck, no matter what crazy shit they're espousing.

He'd go on and on about 'mucus' while I was eating.

In intimate oral moments she would voice her political opinions...

Eating meat is gross. {SMOOCH SUCK SLURP} Eating meat is disgusting. {SLURP SMACK SUCK}.

Kinda makes a blow job seem....meh...almost not worth it if it's coming with a sermon.

for dietary choices but such an extremist should not be in the classroom.

"but Warwak now says he won't return to work unless the school cafeteria goes vegan, eliminating meat, milk and other "poisons" from the menu. He also wants the state's attorney to charge the district with child endangerment."

The fact is that many vegetarians and vegans are mild, reasonable people who don't try to push their views on anyone who isn't interested.

Don't you ever wonder how almost every story about vegans in the MSM is about a radical freak that no one could possibly agree with? Have you noticed they have also done the exact same number on Code Pink and MoveOn?

Everyone here who has chimed in with either reasonable statements like "this dude is out of line" or the pathetic, self-congratulating mating cry of the obese suburban SUV driving moron ("where's the bacon"? I can tell you where it is -- making you and your braindead kids fat and impotent, genius, and giving you all those ugly ass-pimples) has gone through the process just as the MSM intends.

How could vegetarians/vegans/eco-progressives be right? Look how stupid they are! Are YOU that stupid too! Eat more bacon!!

Uhuh, lap it up.

This story has been all over the Chicago area news, three papers that I know of have run stories because they were contacted by him and various groups supporting him. Anyway, the article you read was an opinion piece, not straight reporting. So of course that particular story is going to be selective. There have been others that are less inflammatory, such as this one: http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=33598

Sorry, can't blame the MSM for this one.

That is a much more balanced story.

And the schools should most definitely offer vegan choices.

Though I do feel that this particular teacher has gone a little overboard in this particular case. I feel a discussion of veganism and animal rights is totally appropriate in an art class, I don't feel that proselytizing to students in middle school is right. I think that if he'd framed this in different terms, there might not be this problem. Perhaps art projects on foods, their origins and how the students feel about what they eat would have been better. Perhaps a petition to ask the cafeteria to change and add vegan selections would have been a better learning experience for the children he's being employed to teach, rather than only preaching his specific viewpoint on veganism. :shrug:

"M'kay kids you shouldn't eat animals, m'kay, animal products are bad".

Here's a picture I found online:

Replace that food book with a Bible and bamm you have yourself a Fundamentalist.

Check out that shirt, daddy-o! :wow:

according to Webster (unabridged, 1996):

Concern over what exists beyond the visible world, differentiated from philosophy in that it operates through faith or intuition rather than reason, and generally including the existence of a single being, a group of beings, and eternal principle, or a transcendent spiritual entity that has created the world, that governs it, that controls its destinies, or that intervenes occasionally in the course of its history, as well as the idea that ritual, prayer, spiritual exercises, certain principles of everyday conduct, etc., are expedient, due, or spiritually rewarding, or arise naturally out of an inner need as a human response to the belief in such a being, principle, etc.


Veganism
according to tofunut (unhinged, 2007):

A lifestyle which eschews animal products whenever possible as a means to lessen suffering and exploitation of animals, and to do less harm to the environment in the production of consumable goods.



Religion is about faith and the relationship of human/ity & deity; veganism is about doing less harm to animals and the environment (and depending on the individual, some element of spirituality may or may not follow).


But then, that may just be me.

For most vegans that I meet, it's more like religion, where it controls every aspect of life, and, in practice, has very little to do with helping the environment. In truth, if the focus was solely the environment, there would be no need to be absolute about being a vegan. This, in and of itself, makes it very religious.

are vegan. Not everyone advertises it.

I didn't suggest that the focus is solely the environment, just that that's part of it.

So, what, "in and of itself," makes veganism very religious? That's not clear to me.

The need to make comments about non-vegans, as if they were going to hell for their actions for another.

A LOT of vegans do this. The few who don't point this fact out because it pisses them off, too.

bwahhahhahhhaahaaaaaaaaaa


those darn 'ardent meat-eaters' !


what a complete fucking loon.

One nut and PETA.

we need a few people on the extreme end of some issues just to set the middle at a tolerable point. Now when school menus offer vegan meals, it won't seem so whacko compared to the idea of eliminating meat from the whole school system. :shrug:

still think so.

Not taking sides (the school should certainly offer vegan choices), just making a point.

nt

:rofl:

That this is a perfect example of one stupid person doing a stupid thing reflects badly on an entire group of people and results in that group of people being scorned or ridiculed.

I am married to a vegetarian. I am step father to a vegetarian. I have many vegetarian friends. Not one of them is a nutjob. This guy makes it easy for people to lump them all together.

It is very unhelpful.

No matter how good one's intentions are, acting like an asshole hurts the cause you support.

Hello, Code Pink, PETA, etc.

propaganda is propaganda

that the school cafeteria go vegan.

First off, it's not his call, and second, imposing a vegan diet could actually be dangerous for a child who is allergic to nuts or to soy or to wheat gluten.

Have vegan options? No problem.

Require everyone to go vegan? No way.