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Blackhatjack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:13 AM Original message |
Here is what people are overlooking about the Moveon.org 'betrayus' ad.... |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:18 AM Response to Original message |
1. Well said, excellent point. Prepare for the flames. |
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Bitwit1234 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:40 AM Response to Reply #1 |
29. It made me furious...went to the site and signed up. |
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Peggy Day (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-17-07 01:06 AM Response to Reply #1 |
97. Maybe more people heard about it than would have |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-17-07 07:26 AM Response to Reply #97 |
100. Have the GOP personal attacks convinced you of the rightness of their position? |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:19 AM Response to Original message |
2. they were not trying to persuade. |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:22 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. What do you base that on? |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:29 AM Response to Reply #5 |
16. in this case it's not about polls. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 02:38 PM Response to Reply #5 |
77. Nobody took pollls whenNapoleon was around |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 03:24 PM Response to Reply #77 |
78. A waste of money, then. |
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gratuitous (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:25 AM Original message |
Yep, and it's why the apologists have gone so batshit crazy |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:30 AM Response to Original message |
18. indeed. n/t |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:31 AM Response to Original message |
19. Right ON!!!!!!!! Woot!! |
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malaise (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:53 PM Response to Original message |
64. Touche |
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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 02:23 PM Response to Original message |
75. Us and the illegals, of course...we're |
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movonne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:26 AM Response to Reply #2 |
13. Yes I agree...look what they did to Kerry...the swift boaters...that |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 04:08 PM Response to Reply #2 |
81. MoveOn was feeding it's Base of Activists with the Ad like the RW did With Swiftboating Kerry. |
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zonkers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:20 AM Response to Original message |
3. It is always wise to stay away from obvious puns. |
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jsamuel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:20 AM Response to Original message |
4. agreed, thanks |
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frogcycle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:23 AM Response to Original message |
6. ding ding ding |
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Toots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:24 AM Response to Original message |
7. I think the purpose was to create doubt and controversy |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:26 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. Gets them talking about the ad, not its content - |
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Toots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:30 AM Response to Reply #10 |
17. The headline basically was the content |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:36 AM Response to Reply #17 |
26. I understand the need for an attention-grabber, but... |
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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 02:25 PM Response to Reply #7 |
76. And then down the road they say like |
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Malikshah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:24 AM Response to Original message |
8. Moveon doesn't pander. They aren't Msr. Luntz with their million-dollar |
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Moochy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:27 AM Response to Reply #8 |
14. And this is why we need central party control |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:34 AM Response to Reply #14 |
22. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:39 AM Response to Reply #22 |
28. Deleted message |
Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:41 AM Response to Reply #28 |
30. Do you hear an echo? |
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ChairmanAgnostic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:59 AM Response to Reply #8 |
43. wouldn't know it to hear the Boner talk. |
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babylonsister (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:25 AM Response to Original message |
9. I don't think it was a mistake at all-I hope that's not considered a flame. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:26 AM Response to Original message |
11. We still have so many fearful people, afraid of the right. |
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renie408 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-17-07 04:28 AM Response to Reply #11 |
99. You know...you're right. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:26 AM Response to Original message |
12. You make a lot of good points but |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:27 AM Response to Original message |
15. Why does wearing a uniform automatically imbue the wearer with |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:33 AM Response to Reply #15 |
21. ding! ding! ding! -- we have a winnah! n/t |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:41 AM Response to Reply #21 |
31. What's so horrible about this is that each successive generation |
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ShortnFiery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:03 PM Response to Reply #21 |
44. Yes, and far too many choose FEAR over action ... they'd rather be self-righteous and complain |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:12 PM Response to Reply #44 |
49. ain't that right? but follow my thinking here -- |
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ShortnFiery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:19 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. Yes, and like it or not, smarmy terms like "General Peaches BetrayUs" WORK! nt |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:28 PM Response to Reply #52 |
57. indeed. n/t |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 02:14 PM Response to Reply #44 |
73. ! |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:07 PM Response to Reply #15 |
91. HEAR, HEAR! |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:32 AM Response to Original message |
20. Moveons add was viral and spread all over the world |
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Milo_Bloom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:36 AM Response to Original message |
23. Absolutely 100% correct! |
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Ravy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:36 AM Response to Original message |
24. Perhaps you made a wrong assumption of who the target of the ad was. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:50 AM Response to Reply #24 |
35. You are wrong! |
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Ravy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:12 PM Response to Reply #35 |
48. Speaking of obtuse, I did not say they were not against the war. |
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daninthemoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:36 AM Response to Original message |
25. Absolutely correct. Faux news will not let go of that name-calling |
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The Vinyl Ripper (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:46 AM Response to Reply #25 |
32. The next time you see "the right".. |
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daninthemoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:53 AM Response to Reply #32 |
36. Yeah, that is absolutely their game. So why make it easier for them? |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:55 AM Response to Reply #36 |
38. You've missed the point entirely! |
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daninthemoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:21 PM Response to Reply #38 |
53. The right wingers won't engage in discussion. they use attack |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:50 PM Response to Reply #53 |
62. Oh well but |
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HughMoran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:03 PM Response to Reply #62 |
89. Exactly |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:09 PM Response to Reply #25 |
92. Yeah, because if only the wording were different rightwingers would NEVER attack the message. |
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katmondoo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:39 AM Response to Original message |
27. Did any Republican EVER apologize for the use of the purple bandaid |
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spanone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:46 AM Response to Original message |
33. Wolf BlitzHer has mentioned that ad over and over and over again |
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Blackhatjack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:50 AM Response to Original message |
34. There is a difference between 'gaining attention' and 'persuading people' .... |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:54 AM Response to Reply #34 |
37. You doubted yourself and felt the need to clarify your point? |
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Blackhatjack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:58 AM Response to Reply #37 |
42. There was no 'doubt' in either post on my part --just sharing my point of view... |
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The Vinyl Ripper (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:55 AM Response to Reply #34 |
39. You are making the assumption that people react rationally.. |
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AndyTiedye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 01:09 PM Response to Reply #34 |
68. Nothing Will Persuade the 29%ers. They Think It's The New Crusade |
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karynnj (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:57 AM Response to Original message |
40. Really excellent post |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:57 AM Response to Original message |
41. You nailed it. |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:11 PM Response to Reply #41 |
47. I thought you were at a tea party? |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:16 PM Response to Reply #47 |
50. Scone? |
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babylonsister (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:18 PM Response to Reply #41 |
51. Refuse to understand? Now you're implying a difference of opinion |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:22 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. OK, that was a lousy way to put it. |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:25 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. It worked better then they could have hoped it would. |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:31 PM Response to Reply #56 |
58. Sorry, I don't buy that all publicity is good. |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:34 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. It gives them exposure to millions of people who would never shown |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:36 PM Response to Reply #59 |
60. And that exposure could turn off those millions of people |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:51 PM Response to Reply #60 |
63. It is hard to say, only time will tell. |
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bettyellen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 03:25 PM Response to Reply #60 |
79. LOL |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:12 PM Response to Reply #60 |
94. You really think an arguably poorly-worded message (I disagree, but...) would eliminate... |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:10 PM Response to Reply #54 |
93. In. Your. Opinion. |
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Blackhatjack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:05 PM Response to Original message |
45. I believe one of the strengths of Dems is that we reason with people & Repubs tell people 'trust us" |
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ShortnFiery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:10 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. When it gets truly brutal before the General Election - If we have more people "rolling over" |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:56 PM Response to Reply #46 |
66. WOOT!!! |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 01:11 PM Response to Reply #46 |
69. A swing and a miss. Strike one. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:14 PM Response to Reply #46 |
95. Indeed. Fuck the cowards who'd rather cringe before the rightwingers. |
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The Vinyl Ripper (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:22 PM Response to Reply #45 |
55. It isn't the Repubs tactics that have failed.. |
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Gregorian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:45 PM Response to Original message |
61. But it DID reach it's audience. |
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ToeBot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:55 PM Response to Original message |
65. What are you talking about? The ad was a monumental success. |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 12:59 PM Response to Reply #65 |
67. Best part about it, IMO is the M$M spent millions just to trash Moveon |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 01:16 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. What message got out? |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 01:39 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. Both |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 01:43 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. Only for those who already agreed with MoveOn. |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 09:08 PM Response to Reply #72 |
84. That is way to narrow focused but whatever works for you. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:15 PM Response to Reply #72 |
96. So now YOU'RE the one with the crystal ball? |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 02:18 PM Response to Original message |
74. the Reps twisted it from a question "Will Petraeus betray us"? To a |
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bettyellen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 03:30 PM Response to Original message |
80. anyone who buys into their fake moral outrage is a sucker- and has no stomach for |
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Imagevision (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 06:34 PM Response to Original message |
82. Move.org -> like FOXnews has every right to expose & express their views and opinions... |
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Blackhatjack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 08:21 PM Response to Reply #82 |
83. Sure they do! However, they can destroy their credibility with others by doing it the wrong way |
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tomreedtoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 09:31 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. Do you want to be "credible" or do you want to win? |
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Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 10:53 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. 'Credible' is not the opposite of 'win' |
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tomreedtoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-17-07 12:01 PM Response to Reply #87 |
101. No, "pablum for the left-wing choir" is a typical Clinton speech. |
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Skittles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 09:35 PM Response to Original message |
86. F*** 'EM - MOVEON SPOKE THE TRUTH |
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HughMoran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:00 PM Response to Original message |
88. Completely wrong the ad got 1000's of times as much attention as it would have |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-16-07 11:04 PM Response to Original message |
90. You are welcome to your opinion, as misguided as it is. |
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pampango (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-17-07 03:27 AM Response to Original message |
98. LW activists cheer things like the 'betrayus' ad as speaking "truth to power". |
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