There are seven stages of warfare- to this day -

But in the history of the world - tell me another day when an army went out to set other peoples free??

Just one.

We did that twice in two centuries.

We are the paradigm of civilization - the apex.

I do not accept less than what we are capable of - and I never will.

Make no mistake - this one is a fight for the soul of our country.

Joe

fighting the criminals in our white house.

All enemies. Foreign and DOMESTIC.

We are NOT fighting Nazi Germany - there is no moral imperative.

We are fighting an idea. And we better act as such - NOW!!!!

Joe

it is an abomination -

No - in the 19th century we fought to free slaves. We did.

In the 20th centruy we fought to free Europe - We did.

That is what I am talking about.

That is our heritage.

Joe

VN - what do you know of that?? Wrong war for the right reason??

The War of 1812 - what do you know of that?? Tell me.

You how they disconnected they are to today - you know why??

Don't do it.

Joe

The War of 1812 was fought between the United States and Great Britain from June 1812 to the spring of 1815, although the peace treaty ending the war was signed in Europe in December 1814. The main land fighting of the war occurred along the Canadian border, in the Chesapeake Bay region, and along the Gulf of Mexico; extensive action also took place at sea.

From the end of the American Revolution in 1783, the United States had been irritated by the failure of the British to withdraw from American territory along the Great Lakes; their backing of the Indians on America's frontiers; and their unwillingness to sign commercial agreements favorable to the United States.

In other words it was about economic exploitation of the Americas for the benefit of the ruling classes just like The illegal occupation of Iraq today.



VN was about controlling the opium land routs into and out of Asia.

impressing our people into the british navy - and the heated evolving exchange had something to do with the FACT they burned our capital to the ground in 1813 -

As to VN - a little too fresh in my memory. I remember people spitting on my brother - and I will never forgive that.

Joe

brothers serve in VN and I was a few numbers away from being pressed into service.

I was just a kid then - and I saw what I saw.

Understand - half my family were in SDS - I saw both sides. Both cried when Saigon fell equally - for the same reasons.

You can be right and still use bad judgement - I saw that and I do not forget.

Yeah - I actually don't disagree with the sentiment you express.

But that is not what we are talking about either. Not now.

Joe

I don't justify the war in the end - it cannot be justified. I can argue.

Cause I would rather not do this. Ask yourself who was the president then - (or in 1965) - why did they do what they did??

It is a critical thinking exercise at this point.

I think they had reasons to pursue the course they did. I could argue them. Don't ask me to do that.

Joe

Covers 1200 years of warfare - from fuedal to the current volunteer army and all the variations in between - the ancient franco prussian models to the the 21st century volunteer - reserve force of today.

Fails to recognize that which is obvious. We are very different.

We set out to make others free - and that has never happened before.

I can't do this in a paragraph - those differences - so fundamental to our being as a country.

Joe

You sound so world-weary and knowing when you talk about the callous betrayal of the leaders in THIS "war". I think you get it.

But then, you put those rosey goggles on and imagine that it some pure motives that inspired the wars of the past?

Could it be true? I don't know but I doubt it.

I'm just 41, but I was a child sitting at the TV watching images of Vietnam and Watergate. I became a man when Reagan was president, a college student watching Iran-Contra, a grad student watching Baghdad getting bombed for the FIRST time. I have NO memory of a pure, untainted America and I have no reason to believe it ever existed.

All evidence points to the contrary except for some very brief windows when it was otherwise. So sad. BTW, I don't mean to be attacking you, man. Just curious about where your head is at.

"We are the paradigm of civilization - the apex."

are you saying that Americans are more civilised than anyone else in the world, ever?
maybe I'm getting too testy in my old age, but I find that a bit insulting, being from another country.

the best war machine -

Oh - we weren't always that. By a long shot.

But today we are - and I want to keep it that way.

X hundred years ago - the interests were that of keeping the city-state free of foreign influence. We changed that - We said - people are free if they want it - and we are going to make sure they stay that way. We lost over a million people to do that.

I will die before I see that dream die - We are the United States - and we are sure not perfect. But we are the last best hope too.

Joe

exclude the American Revolutionary War from your short list of just wars.

So tell me Joe, why are you bluffing about this country having a soul?

You're awake and you're a big boy, so why front with the sentimental stuff. It's all crap. It has ALWAYS been a rigged game. You just came in when their had just been a big, random payout. But it was just our severance pay. We were fired. End of story. It was a one-time disbursement of rights and they ain't coming back.