Should other UF students have jumped in to help?

We citizens have to start taking back this country.

What if other students at that UF auditorium jumped in to help fend off the cops who tasered that kid?

I think it's a legitimate question.

This country is turning into a police state and I am sick of watching it happen.

When do we hit the boiling point and start fighting the fascists back?

Which, in the state of Florida, can put you in prison for years -- 3 years minimum if charged with a felony count of it.

So ... would you have these college kids destroy their lives, then?


Mind you, I agree that what the cops did was egregiously wrong in this case, and I'm a huge civil libertarian. I just think that hitting the cops back never really works out the way you want it to.

The question for me is - when do we hit the boiling point and say enough is enough, get your filthy hands of our college students, get your police state out of our lives!

This is America! I thought America FOUGHT for freedom and human rights, not stood passively by hoping (or praying) things change on their own.

"Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense." (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

"An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery." (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

I was falsely arrested, had the charges dropped, my record expunged, and successfully sued the city for false arrest, false imprisonment, and malicious prosecution.

I knew from the moment of my arrest the charge was bogus and I would be vindicated but I never thought about pulling a John Rambo on the cop...

There's a justice system set up handle these situations...Imagine if citizens started second guessing the cops and decided which arrests to interfere in and which not to...

who are beaten and spend years in jail on trumped-up charges like resisting arrest.

Until people realize that cops are the enemy and treat them as such, abuse will continue to be the norm for police-citizen interactions.

But then I remember the cop who stayed with me when my car broke down in a high crime area until the tow truck came or the cop that drove me to the hospital to see my mom who was in an accident with me that had left my car undrivable...Her injuries, thank god, were superficial...

But, suggesting citizens should monitor arrests, decide if they are lawful or unlawful, and liberate the arrested person on the spot is good counsel ; good counsel if you want somebody to get a cap in the forehead...

battles and battlefields. Cops are bullies which is why there are always five or six or more of them beating one victim.

You never see them in a one-on-one confrontation.

When a guy is holding his hands up and is asking questions, violence is not needed.

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...is shout:

BAD COP! NO DONUT!

BAD COP! NO DONUT!

Doesn't usually do much but let the cops know we're watching them. Sometimes that helps.

:shrug:

but these days they would say you were threatening them and charge you.

Because there usully is no accountability when these situations arise, and they arise often enough, the line between the police and the citizens will grow.

:eyes:

fascists, police state, brown shirts, blah blah blah blah blah give it a rest. This over the top rhetoric is just plain dumb.

it doesn't look like the crowd was on the guy's side in the first place, so I don't imagine they would have jumped in to help. His behavior didn't really engender sympathy IMHO.

you mean asking the wrong questions?

"you mean asking the wrong questions"

No-- by denying Sen. Kerry the opportunity to answer.

(You know-- drama queen behavior, trying to get attention focused on you rather than the issue...)

You read that into my statement how?

Look, I've read some more of the thread and now realize that anyone who disagrees with you is a fascist who wants to put the Hebrew nation back into concentration camps.

And, most likely you don't see the need for law enforcement in this country, regardless of the scenario.

And, you're going to read whatever the hell suits you into any contrary view.

So yeah-- I'm advocating 'police actions', I want to eat your dogs, and I don't like bunnies or flowers. Feel validated? Feel justified? Feel better?

You know a sentence with a question mark at the end?

It's called a question.

That means I asked you what your opinion was on the matter, not that I automatically judged you one way or the other.

:hi:

He is no Cindy Sheehan, but it looked like he went into some sort of civil disobedience mode of some sort.

Still...not a reason to be tazed and not a reason to be manhandled from the beginning. It was the male cop that went out of line first, in my opinion, by twisting against the guys elbow. At that point, you are not dealing with a rational human being, but someone's fight or flight response.

The crowd would not have helped, though. After the taze, I would have been pretty damned vocal, but a taze can kill me (bad heart), so I don't know.

How did the cops know the taze wouldn't kill him? Everyone's standing around as an attempted MURDER could well have been taking place. And for what? Some kid voicing his opinions in a student auditorium??

From then on, any serious jolt can kill me instantly.

I had students who were younger than me that had even more serious heart conditions, and they went to politcal rallies.

1/3 of Americans die of heart attacks, many current are post-MI or have some other heart abnormality.

It is inevitable that the tazer will kill again, and I am scared to death of them

A friend of mine watched a guy get tazed over a dozen times for non-compliance while he was on the ground. He was black, so no one but her gave a shit....her company made her sign a form saying she would never reveal what she saw. She now knows what the cops are like if you are an "undesireable".

It's been that way for years, but the tazer makes it so much easier, and the list of "undesirables" has gotten much bigger.

He was a disruptive asshole.

He didn't do anything to deserve being slammed to the ground and tasered. If you think he deserved violence like that, you are advocating fascism.

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Or, a demo that I was at the same year where one of our heroes in blue jammed the end of his billy club in a black kids eye while he was prostrate. Not to mention the wild billy club swinging at everybody who wasn't a cop. They certainly deserved being called "pigs" at Chicago and a number of other places during those times.

what party that mayor belonged to, and of course who gave the pay raise to the Chicago Cops afterwords. As said in another thread someone has to give the cops the orders. What was the orders Mayor Daley gave during the riots after MLK was assassinated? Shoot to kill wasn't it?

Or the policemen among the first responders during the suicide attacks on the WTC-- those friendly local police?

This is a nation of laws, including the law against resisting arrest. You advocate a mob action against the police officers are just doing their job in full compliance to the law.

I'd seriously think about that. It is not authoritarian to respect the laws of the land. Just because the Bush Regime doesn't follow the laws doesn't mean we should follow jumping off that bridge.

Sure, I'd have tripped the kid myself.

What the fuck is the matter with DU'ers?

Get it?

What would you have done if you had been one of the cops?

They could have killed that kid. And for what? For voicing his opinions in a student auditorium? You don't see anything wrong with that?

What would you have done differently.

You're working security at event, the speaker's an important senator and former presidential nominee, suddenly a deranged freak starts behaving completely irrationally, and when asked to leave he starts shouting and flailing his arms around. What do you do?

"You don't see anything wrong with that?"

I think it's wrong to suggest this kid was simply there to ask questions and voice his opinion. I find that very dishonest.

great

If it makes you feel better to think that, then of course I do. If it makes you feel better to think something else, then of course I don't.

You're going to read into contrarian viewpoints what you will-- regardless of original intent. If it makes you feel better to think that I have fourteen toes, guess what? I have fourteen toes!

fourteen total, or fourteen for each foot? :7

But no, seriously...

Why would I? I'm incredibly obnoxious.

I think these cops did exactly what they were supposed to do. And I think if anybody was being violent, it was that kid.

Watch the video. The cops asked him to leave, the kid was the aggressor.

That makes them the aggressor.

That's what they're supposed to do when they arrest somebody.

Therefore, their actions can be considered aggression, not just "doing what cops do"

Disrupting a public event, trespassing.

Both grounds for an arrest.

Asking difficult questions is now considered "disruption" and trespassing?

No, it is not.

But Meyers wasn't just asking tough questions. He disrupted the event, and when he refused to leave he was trespassing.

That's all quite clear from the video.

Only one answer to that. Because he asked the questions nobody wants to talk about.

Surrounded him.....coralled him to the door in a manner that would hurt neither him nor the police, and talked him down. His screaming isn't hurting anyone and his mike had already been shut off.

Pretty much like every "out of control asshole" situation I have ever seen on campus or in a bar. And often those people are drunk.

That's what experienced cops that I can trust would do.

These were fascist assholes that think that pain and risk of death is necessary to ensure faster compliance.

and the kid pushes cops out of his way and wiggles around. Now you've got a deranged man resisting arrest, with lots of bystanders and an important politician that could get hurt.

So what do you do then?

Please do not make things up...he was clearly upset and resisting arrest, but there is no proof of derangement.

I would still do the same thing. They don't teach cops how to control a situation like that physically just so they can throw all the shit out the door and taze the bastard. There was no proof of risk for the crowd or the politician, either, and for the same reason you don't invade a country that doesn't pose a clear threat, you do not risk a person's life if they are not a clear threat.

The tazer risked the man's life.

...and now it is rightfuly under investigation.

The arm twist potentially turned a bad situation worse. It was not necessary and went far beyond the force needed to remove him. The only force I am convinced was needed was show of force, which was never done....they came up from behind him. Not good police work, but impatient police work. The taze was way over the line and put his life at risk.

If the politiian felt threatened, that would be one thing, but he was answering the man's question, not fearfully jumping back.

Yeah... that'll work in every situation.

Crack addict? Coral him to the door.

Bank robber? Talk him down.

Wife beater? Shut off his mike...

Try again...we are talking about an obnoxious student acting out, not any of the above.

Corralling him was the first thing they tried, it failed. So what do you do then?

:sarcasm:

I saw you use that term again after I pointed out that there is no proof there is derangement. You are too emotionally invested in this argument and do not seem to absorb any new information.

But if you really want an answer from me, I am not convinced they corralled him....coralling doesn't entail lifting him by his arms and twisting them...at that point, they are manhandling him. Corraling happens with more than two officers....also corraling doesn't occur from behind. He has to see that he is being corraled....not surprised by being grabbed.

The cops are under investigation now because they went out of line. Perhaps if they followed a more patient procedure, this would not have happened.

who think people shouldn't be cattle-prodded because they weren't compliant or a violent threat.

Assist a drama queen? No thanks. And I think that's a legitimate answer...

But there isn't much you can do with armed cops telling you to back off.

but no, it was the police officers' job to control an out of control kid. The taser was unfortunate.

"One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance." (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

"When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified." Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

"These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence." Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

When you receive a trespass warning from the police or from the property owner (which this guy definitely was not) and you fail to heed that trespass warning by leaving the property, you no longer "have a right" to be in that place and you are unlawfully trespassing and can be arrested. If you then resist arrest for trespassing, you are adding that charge and if you assault someone you are adding that charge too. In this case the guy in question resisted arrest after being asked to leave and assaulted police officers. So much for your theory.

Doug D.

He was grabbed and forcefully led away, for no reason - they assaulted first.

looking forward.

As I am that so many people condone the police behavior

Any student who tried to help the protestor probably would have been subjected to the same treatment.

are mostly reviled on DU. Most DUers pretend that these folks are all "agent provocateurs" in order to align their supposed progressivism with their authoritarian tendencies. Unarrest is an art, and an important one, but you're really preaching in the wilderness here.