The Betray Us Ad: The numbers are in

And omigod, you wouldn't believe how it changed everything, rallying support like never before for the Republicans and the continuing occupation of Iraq.

Oh wait; no, it didn't at all. In fact, the numbers are actually worse since the ad. Glenn Greenwald has the numbers:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/18/wrongness/index.html

The money quote, with B.P. standing for before the ad and A.P meaning after the ad: "the percentage of Americans who believe we should either maintain or increase our current troops levels in Iraq was higher B.P. (30%) than it is A.P. (27%). Conversely, the percentage of Americans who want a troop reduction or complete withdrawal increased after the Petraeus Week (from 65% to 68%)."

Oh, I just love it when a plan comes together!:patriot:

Way to go MoveOn.org! IMO, you proved that you genuinely care about the lives of OUR TROOPS first and foremost - vice - ONE scandal ridden, spring-butt GENERAL with his head up Dear Leader's butt! :applause: :yourock:

A lot more than a naked ballerina!

:rofl:

NGU.

and those who read it ..... could find no fault with it. KISS. Ha Ha!! Betray US. luv it. Peace.

It's catchy, attacks our opponents' perceived strength, and it's FACTUAL.

It's like a Rove smear, plus it's FACTUAL.

They're the bullies on the playground, and when someone finally punches them, they raise holy hell over the travesty of it all.

This fear of our attacks only rallying the Repubs and making them stronger are destructive and unfounded. Why isn't anyone on their side afraid of what will happen when they attack us?

'hurt the cause'? I love that General 'Betray-us' made it to prime time!

That's why Rethugs were so upset. They knew MoveOn.org was merely writing the truth.

Bravo MoveOn.org. :yourock:

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! SEE! MoveOn was right and so were the people who had the guts to stand with them! :woohoo: WTG, MoveOn!!!!

"More revealingly still, only a small minority of Americans -- the depressingly familiar Bush dead-enders -- actually believe Gen. Petraeus' claims that "the surge has made things in Iraq better." A substantial majority of Americans disbelieves the assertions of The General Who Must Not be Challenged:"

Unlike the Iraqis who are getting maimed, killed, or made refugees from their country thanks to Bush and the likes of Petraeus.

and all those out there that were spelling gloom and doom for the antiwar movement because of this ad, do you finally get it? It's amazing what happens when you actually stand up and do something you believe in as opposed to constantly letting the other side make the rules.

You never know, you just might win a battle here and there, instead of just living to fight another day.

that remotely proves that ad was effective. That the ad or its title changed public perception.

You won't.

From the article-

"even though polls uniformly showed that Americans expected exaggerated optimism from Petraeus".

is pretty ridiculous. We're facing a government that's a threat to our liberties, our planet, and our livlihoods. And you get worked up because someone called one of them a name? Direct your outrage elsewhere. We are way past the point of politely disagreeing. And as you can see, even if there's no direct evidence that it didn't help, prove to me that it hurt. You can't. And from everything I've seen, it appears that when the Democrats do in fact take a stand they tend to come out on top. Too bad they don't do it more often.

This is really good news though!

"activist judges" and any other catchphrases they can feed to the populace so they can regurgitate them throughout the public discourse.

They're upset because we FINALLY figured out that catchphrases work. Especially when they're true.

Trust me, the right suffered far more than the left on this one.

not some made up theory that you think sounds good.

that these catchphrases seep into our collective consciousness. Why else would advertising work? I don't think that's a made up theory.

How did "cut & run" become such a popular phrase? How about "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas?". If that isn't a catchphrase, than why did a dozen journalists individually use that phrase to report on the O.J. break in. Are you seriously telling me that you want to see empirical proof that catchphrases and soundbites guide our political discourse? Talk to the hand.

Remember the Seinfield episode about the "bad breaker upper"? He would say some comment that "stuck" - like Eliene was "big head". Thats what the Betrayus add had. It STUCK. Because it was true.

the catchphrase. That's why they're reacting so forcefully on this ad. It has all the components of a Rove smear, plus--IT'S TRUE!

The facts were the facts and the ad wasn't going to take someone who was already FOR troop withdrawl and turn them against it.

The problem is that people who may have been on the fence but where the "support the military" types rushed to the defense of the general, instead of scrutinizing what was said.

I wonder what the numbers would have been with a simple change to the ad.

General Pretaeus, Don't Betray Us.

-'"The facts were the facts and the ad wasn't going to take someone who was already FOR troop with drawl and turn them against it.

Sooooo you think the ad was to argue against troop withdrawal? :crazy:

-The problem is that people who may have been on the fence but where the "support the military" types rushed to the defense of the general, instead of scrutinizing what was said.

If your still on the fence at this point on this war I have no answer for you. And the 'support the military types' are US THE ONES WHO CARE ABOUT THEM AND WANT THEM HOME FROM THIS BULLSHIT.

-I wonder what the numbers would have been with a simple change to the ad.

General Pretaeus, Don't Betray Us.

Cute...... but wouldn't of gotten the attention of the headline General "BETRAY-US" A marketing rule on these things when dealing with the TRUTH IS THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUBLICITY. IT SHINES A LIGHT ON IT. KISS. GET IT? pEaCe. :)

"Sooooo you think the ad was to argue against troop withdrawal? "

No. But that was the proof used in the poll cited.

"If your still on the fence at this point on this war I have no answer for you. And the 'support the military types' are US THE ONES WHO CARE ABOUT THEM AND WANT THEM HOME FROM THIS BULLSHIT. "

I put it in 's for a reason to distinguish these specific people from the rest of us who really do support the troops. I am talking about THOSE people who leap to the defense of the military when anyone questions them.

"TRUTH IS THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUBLICITY. IT SHINES A LIGHT ON IT. KISS. GET IT? pEaCe"

That is a myth. Ask Britney Spears if there is no such thing as bad publicity.

That's all you got? Okie dokie. I won't waste my time explaining to you why your argument is irrelevant then. Peace.

Its nice to know it is so easy to win a debate.

this statement "A marketing rule on these things when dealing with the TRUTH IS THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUBLICITY. IT SHINES A LIGHT ON IT."

So Britney dancing around somehow has relevance in your head as to a TRUTHFUL POLITICAL statement by moveon.org? "These things" in the statement above cannot logically include Britney because she is not an 'argument' but an 'entertainer' and therefore her type of publicity is different from the premise above.

So your conclusion (and Britney analogy) is a fallacy which does not follow from the given premise. Peace.


note: Now stop getting distracted by shit on the boob tube, turn it off for awhile and pay attention. Please don't come back in here with something you saw about O.J. today either .... geesh. Peace. ;)

The Britney analogy is valid to dispell the "there is no bad publicity" myth.

There was no comparisson between Britney and politics.

Please pay more attention in the future.

You tried to make it. The conversation was about the moveon.org ad (a truthful political statement) and you brought Britney into it. Why do you keep editing what was said "A marketing rule on these things when dealing with the TRUTH IS THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUBLICITY. IT SHINES A LIGHT ON IT." and NOT 'there is no bad publicity' ..... gawd what a simpleton you are, selectively taking part of a comment and trying to make something out of that like FAUX news and Repubs do all the time !!! Your reasoning is fallacious, deceitful, Illogical, irrational, and non-defensible. So get over it. Stop Lying! ;) Peace.

Bush dead-enders. I love it!

That's the REAL reason why the GOP went through a meltdown. These people are so transparent. So easy to read. The more their wrath, the more effective we are.

Betray-us ad: We finally got them at their own game. The reason they went bonkers over this, is because of the wording. They were horrified that Americans will start saying the word,
Petraeus
Betray-Us
YEAH, he's going to Betray Us.

Cliches, memes, slogans, that kinda stuff.

Good for Move On.

if the title would have been otherwise? The next Ad should debunk the Betrayus report with the title: "*ss Kissing, Chick **it General Lies". Rethugs> eat shit and die.

Its so RUDE! How dare anyone protest the war? How dare anyone speak out? Its so uncouth!

And we finally GET IT!!

Boy, I'm thrilled. Are we gonna have fun with Julie Rudiani or what?

But as long as the Republicans are using this tactic and being successful with it, I see no reason why the "sauce-for-the-goose-is-sauce-for-the-gander" principle shouldn't apply. As soon as the Republicans say or signal that they want to elevate the level of political discourse in the country, I'm game for it. But until they holler "uncle," I'm comfortable with using their own tactics against them.

Emphasis on simple.

Sad as it may be, this is what we have become. If you can't fit your message in five words or less, forget about it.

Spending our time here with the other politicoholics messes with your perception of reality. You start thinking that the majority of the country actually gives a shit, but in fact its just us, the crazy few.

Although if they change another three points next week, that'll certainly be interesting.

The more exposure he gets, the less support.

rather than "the ad".

And as another poster noted, the three or four percentage point drop in public support for the war and the similar rise in the number of folks who want us out of Iraq and out soon is not terribly significant, statistically speaking.

However, all the hand-wringing, breast-beating and pearl-clutching by the Nervous Nellies last week, about how this would totally backfire against progressives, and lead to more people reflexively "supporting" the troops just did not and has not materialized. Instead, the hysterical, overblown, and totally typical reaction from the Right Wing Noise Machine was totally ineffectual (at best), or a complete failure which turned public opinion even more against the Bush administration.

Suck on it, Republicans.

"even though polls uniformly showed that Americans expected exaggerated optimism from Petraeus".

And it's obvious how many DU'ers who've already piled onto this thread didn't read the article.

Cause if they did, they'd find ZERO evidence to back up the notion that MoveOn's ad had anything to do with public perception.

There were all sorts of folks last week who were totally convinced that the ad would backfire. Well, it didn't, and despite all the huffing and puffing by the Mighty Republican Wurlitzer, public opinion actually turned a little more against this fucked-up administration and its misbegotten war and occupation.

I say we keep hitting them.

Will B.P. replace B.C.E. and will A.P. replace A.D.?

"Ah, that happened twenty years *Before Petraeus*.

:rofl:

those folk aren't stupid -- and they know what they're doing -- EVEN IF some don't like it.

any way -- i'm glad that this time america seems not to hav efallen for the dog and pony show.