The Shah of Iran addresses women's issue in 1973.

"Does it seem right to you that a King, that an Emperor of Persia, should waste time talking about such things? Talking about wives, women? Women are important in a man's life only if they're beautiful and keep their femininity. You're equal in the eyes of the law but not, excuse my saying so, in ability."

Aren't we peachy?

Falwell, or so many others from the US mysogenistic RW, or at least the basic core beliefs....

So, tell me now why WE should be so sanctimonious when our own Supreme Court recently decided that women needed to be protected from themselves and their own feeble little minds vis-a-vis abortion?

and his mouthpiece the Midget Mayor.

Not that the Shah was a saint by any stretch (he wasn't, in many areas), but he was the one who LIFTED the veil--the 1979 Islamic Republic mandated it once again. And he wasn't in the habit of hanging women from cranes for crimes against chastity, either.

Women do NOT have it better in present day Iran.

discussed by our corporate media whenever they are beating those war drums again.

Note that women had it "better" under Hussein as well. Do we hear about that?

Any TV or radio program that focuses on Iraq, discusses daily life, and is actually FAIR in the portrayal will say that women had more rights, and people had more electricity, employment, and clean water in the Saddam era. That's painfully obvious.

I'm not a supporter of war against Iran. That said, I don't like their repressive, despotic government, either. I'd like the people, pissed off, fighting rampant inflation, increased unemployment, dealing with gas rationing, and laboring under a crumbling infrastructure, to decide for themselves that it's time for a serious change that doesn't include clowns in robes and black turbans telling them what to do.

No, because the whole idea that we are concerned one iota with the social rights of the citizens of another country is total bs.

I'm not giving "reasons to overthrow" anything. That's in your head.

And I'm not framing anything within a construct of what "we" (I assume you mean the Bush government, and that's not ME, thanks anyway) might do.

I'm simply stating a few hard, ugly facts, and you, for some reason, are uncomfortable with them.

The truth is the truth, and if you were a woman living in Iran or Iraq, your cheerleading would likely not be desired or required. In fact, they'd likely tell you to stuff your American preaching somewhere moist and dark.

They've enough problems without foreign attempts to justify state-sanctioned and encouraged misogyny in their own lands, simply because one hates a Ruling Monkey at home.

Where is it required? In pictures and videos I have seen of Iran the women wear hijab, but not necessarily veils over their faces.

Modest clothing for women varies from country-to-country in the Middle East and Muslim countries.

face uncovered, unless the woman wraps it around the face.

The word 'veil' was used generically--not like a wedding veil or a widow's veil.

Don't even TRY to suggest that this "modest clothing" trip is "OK" with the population. It isn't.

Here, read: http://maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/2007/05/women-and-people-in-iran-resisting-veil.html

See what happens to women in Iran who don't obey the orders of the Modesty Police??

Also, the heels and stockings are a no-go. What's fine for the Persian RUNWAY, with an audience of women, isn't fine for Kouroush Kabir Street in northern Teheran, or the bazaar in the south of town.

If the coat were a box, and the shoes lower, and the stockings a bit thicker, she'd be OK. See, that's why the model has a BELT on that thing--you can let the belt out, or better still, leave it at home. The idea is thus:

-Cover the hair.

-Cover the body, to include arms and legs.

-Conceal the shape of the body.

-No jiggling while walking.

I know what I'm talking about. I don't speak from idle speculation or supposition, I used to live there.

Believe it or not, 150 years ago or so, the above description you gave wouldn't be so out of the ordinary as a standard for acceptable clothing for alot of American women.

I'm not saying it is particularly enlightened for Iranian women to be forced to wear a restrictive range of clothing, but there is nothing really alien about it, only to a culture that thinks Britney getting up and shaking her mostly naked body is "normal" thinks that there's something diabolical about asking people to dress modestly.

It is often a cheap rightwing talking point to mention women wearing "tents" "over there", as if it is a justification to use military action against a country. Wrap yourself in feminism and the most obscene acts of savage warmongering become tolerable, so the thinking goes. It's not really enlightened thinking, just rehashing the same colonialist themes of the civilized vs. the savage.

But... I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily and I welcome your comments and insights.

I have to say, I find this exhausting. I lived in Iran. I wandered the streets of Teheran and Esfahan under Shah AND Khomeini, and trust me, the women preferred the clothing options they had under Shah. They also preferred the personal freedoms of association that they had, to be able to go to parties, socialize with friends, and do everyday, average things, like say, go skiing, hiking, to the fair, or for a lousy stinking walk with a few unrelated male and female friends without being arrested.

I'm not TALKING about "warmongering." I'm simply imparting experience, which funny enough, is often brushed aside and ignored here, simply because this Ahmadinejad asswipe is an enemy of BOOOOSH. The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend. Sometimes, the enemy of my enemy is a bigger asshole than my enemy. That doesn't mean we need to bomb the shithead. In fact, you see, in the article below, what they are gearing up for over there--SANCTIONS, not bombings.

What I see is that people who get wrapped up in Utopian visions of happy societies, delivered to them by clumsy propagandists, are often fooled. I'd love to send them over there for a forced vacation, especially the females who think it's just such a handy-dandy place, and the Midget Mayor such a lovely and reasonable man. It ain't, and he ain't. Women are the least of the bretheren there--the cheerleaders at DU, if plonked down in Tabriz or Ahvaz, might very well be mightily disillusioned and disappointed, to say nothing of scared fucking shitless, if they made it out of there without being molested by a morality cop and then arrested and accused of being a prostitute. And no, I'm not kidding.

It's a fucking MESS over there in Iran now. You think we have shitty bridges HERE? You should see the roads over there. The military installations haven't been even painted since Shah left. They're rationing GAS--in an oil producing country (the one bright spot there--the hideous, disgusting, CHOKING pollution in Teheran was briefly improved). The economy is a disaster, because graft and corruption are a hundred times worse than they were under Shah (and it was BAD then). Inflation is brutal. It's just a fucked up place right now--and it's sad, because it's a beautiful country with some of the coolest people in the world trapped under a fer-shit government.

If you dig deep, you see that the Midget Mayor is doing the SAME thing BOOOSH is doing over here--getting his peeps all 'riled' so they forget about a shitty economy. See, in a perverse way, BOOSH and Ahmadinejad are helping each other out with their respective restless and dissatisfied populations...one hand washes the other:

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39334

ECONOMY-IRAN: Petrol Rationing - Bumpy Ride
By Kimia Sanati

Credit:Ebrahim Noroozi/Fars

Queuing up for rationed petrol as Iran braces for sanctions

TEHRAN, Sep 20 (IPS) - Two months after the government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad began rationing petrol to ‘’vaccinate’’ itself against possible sanctions, critics say the plan has failed to cut down gasoline consumption. Instead it has hurt the agriculture, tourism, transportation and other sectors ...Rationing did push consumption down by around 15 million lt a day. But where the average daily consumption stood at around 77 million lt, in the first three months prior to rationing, the first two months following rationing saw it drop to 61million lt...Demand is expected to rise considerably from late September when schools reopen.

Extra rations for various government organisations, groups of individuals with special needs and some businesses, as well as a bonus 100 lt ‘summer travelling ration’ allocated by the government have reversed the initial drop in consumption. Gasoline consumers under 45 different categories are now receiving additional gasoline ration..."During the early stages of the implementation of the plan, traffic was reduced, gasoline consumption went down, there was less pollution and people accepted to learn to change their fuel consumption patterns... but creation of extra rations has destroyed all the initial achievements," ....Traffic in the capital that had reduced by 15 percent in the early stages of the implementation of the gasoline rationing plan has bounced back to where it was, according to the traffic department of Tehran municipality. Tehran is home to nearly one-seventh of the Iranian population and accounts for a third of all the cars in the country.

One undesirable outcome of rationing is the creation of a huge black market for ration cards. Rations for private cars, taxis and pick-up trucks and even those of the government-owned cars can be purchased in the black market. The problem has pushed the government to consider revising taxi allocations.....Companies whose businesses need transportation facilities are also picking up rations allotted to taxis, pick-up trucks and old cars. ....Implementation of gasoline rationing began for government cars from Jun. 13. Riots broke out at gas stations 11 days later when the government suddenly announced rationing for private cars. More than 30 gas stations were torched and businesses and government offices plundered around the country by angry crowds.

Gasoline has for many years been sold at highly subsidised prices in Iran, at least five times cheaper than in some neighboring countries. The price differences made the smuggling of gasoline from Iran to other countries hugely profitable.......Iranian refineries, many of them outdated, have limited capacity to produce gasoline, and before rationing began the country had to import around 20 million lt of gasoline a day. Consumption has grown nearly 10 percent annually and before rationing began daily consumption sometimes topped the 80 million lt mark.

Iran imported 5.4 billion dollars worth of gasoline last fiscal year (Mar.21, 2006 - Mar.20, 2007). The budget law for the current fiscal year allows the government to import 2.5 billion dollars worth of gasoline.....The government is still staunchly refusing to sell additional gasoline at free market prices and government cars are now using rationed gasoline (300 lt a month) at rationed price, whereas the law says that the government itself must pay for its gasoline consumption at free market prices," an observer in Tehran told IPS on the condition of anonymity. "...Ahmadinejad....is always blaming economic problems on mysterious ‘others’, but this time inflation may be seen to be the result of the government decision to increase the price of gasoline...But he must really beware of the complications that rationing has caused. Here in the capital there are a thousand ways to buy extra fuel. ...In some provinces the price of gasoline in the black market is incredibly high and many people are losing the livelihood they earned from agriculture or tourism. The drop in consumption figures results from their deprivation. Unless the problem is addressed in some way by the government, their votes may be lost to him (Ahmdinejad)," ....

One thing I know for sure, the ladies always love a Shah.

Way back, they loved Soraya--but she couldn't have kids, so he dumped her, because she refused to be Lead Wife.

They loved Farah Diba, because she had a classy way of rolling her eyes when he'd make assholy remarks like the one in the OP.

The same ones who were protesting the Shah came to protest the Ayatollah too...