Just how offensive do you find term "black" as opposed to "African-american"?

Sorry if it's a stupid question and I'm not just trying to be provocative. I've never found the term offensive and still don't. This perspective comes from growing up in the 70s - "Say it out loud! I'm black and I'm proud!" - and my school was mixed so I had black friends and white friends and didn't give a darn about the difference. Black was something to be proud of.

If asked, I'd call myself white not caucasian or scottish-irish-german-american. If you asked me what nationality Barack Obama, Al Sharpton or a teacher of mine was, I'd just say American.

So is black really that bad?

But I think a black person would be better qualified to answer.

I also don't care for hyphenated nationalities. I'm an American. Period.

and I learned my lesson when I lived in Hong Kong and accidentally referred to a Black British citizen as "African American!" Boy, did I hear an earful!

:)

I've had black friends who tell me they prefer "black" but when I'm with black people I don't know that well, I feel awkward if I have to describe race.

..sort of "Dark Tan" and Folks from Africa are not Black either...Just a few shades darker than me.

But..Having said that.. Africans can call themselves anything they want...

Her Latina friend said she was white... I'm not white! I'm pink!

My son Josh has a Filipino friend, also named Josh. The kids were sitting around playing video games one afternoon, and my daughter said, hey Josh. Her brother said, what? To which she replied... not the pink Josh, the brown Josh!

I'm pink too. All this other stuff is just silliness.

When my sister was about 5 or 6, she described black people as "brown" and just the other day my 6 year old niece did the same thing! I always thought it was more accurate and less loaded.

He has brown and peach friends (we're not exactly "pink" either, more of a peach).

I'm all for going with the instincts of children.

I prefer it to "African-American", which sounds stupid to me and not even really accurate.

But I find this far more offensive: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1903022&mesg_id=1903022

Something that makes me say "huh?" about the African-american (or any other hyphenated description, for that matter) is the underlying implication of . . . "otherness" about it. As in, you're not completely American - your Something else-and-american. As in, if you don't like it here go back there because not all of you is really from here.

There's also the implication of choice.

There's also the implication of pride about one's heritage.

Ah, semantics.

As for the white supremacists, I honestly can't imagine growing up or surrounding myself in an environment that encourages that kind of soul rot.

So "african" has an underlying implication of "otherness" to you?

Do you feel the same way about Irish or Italian?

It's not "African" that sounds other. It's the hyphened word before the -American that gives it the otherness to which I was referring - as in not All American or merely American.

wtf?

"(or any other hyphenated description, for that matter)"

That means other descriptions such as Irish-American, Italian-American. It seems most other people got that. I'm sorry you didn't - it's hard to get explanations expressed accurately on a community forum sometimes.

in conversation, how do you distinguish between an American of Irish descent and an Irish national? (assuming their ethnicity is relevant to the conversation)

I don't think they're the same thing - not exactly. But I'll play along.

How about "This is my childhood friend Bill Harrigan and his cousin John who's visiting from Ireland."

I'm saying they're two different things.

Which is why something like African-American or Irish-American is useful.

"How about 'This is my childhood friend Bill Harrigan and his cousin John who's visiting from Ireland.'"

This is specifically why I added the parenthetical comment that their ethnicity is relevant to the conversation. Say, for example, it's a conversation about Irish-American immigration and history, and you want to talk about your friend Abdul Khomeini (the fourth generation Irish-American) and his cousin Akira who's visiting from Ireland. One's an American of Irish descent, one's a citizen of Ireland. What would be the proper term to discuss their ethnicity and nationality?

Far from it. I was just stating from a semantic point of view there is an otherness - for lack of a better word - when you put something before the hypenamerican instead of just saying American. And yes, this conversation is about race but that can sometimes include nationality as well. Parsing the term African-american, one realizes it has two nationalities stated right there in it.

"I'm getting the impression you think I find the term African-american to be a bad thing"

I think you think it has an "otherness." You find it alienating. You've said as much.

for bigotry that isn't there. No, I'm not saying bigotry doesn't exist here. Hey, I've seen you make comments about gays. But there was nothing in that poster's comment that was remotely racist, and you decided to play the attacking purity brigade. Ugh.

I haven't accused or suggested the poster is a bigot. I'm trying to find out why the person feels alienated from the adjective "african." Does he or she feel the same way about Irish? Italian?

"But there was nothing in that poster's comment that was remotely racist, and you decided to play the attacking purity brigade."

Uh, what? Who's attacking who? You're accusing me of some veiled accusation against bigotry against gays? Huh? Off your meds?

just ugh. and that poster felt you were putting words in his/her mouth. As I said, ugh. as for the ad hominem; more of a shrug than an ugh. it's to be expected.

As for the ad hominem, dish it out but can't take it?

and twisted the poster's point about the aura of "otherness" that comes with identifying people with the "_____-American".

you're foolin', right?

I really don't see how any one would find otherness with the term "____-American"

besides it being another point all together.

You said:

Hmm.

So "african" has an underlying implication of "otherness" to you?

Do you feel the same way about Irish or Italian?


Which is not at all what the poster was saying. You've just summarized OPs original point (in response to my post) so I trust that your initial response was an aberration.

How does my response summarize the OP's point?

point in your response to mine, that is to say that the OP was trying to make the point of an aura of "otherness" being created with the use of the "_______-American" tag. your response to me was "I really don't see how any one would find otherness with the term "____-American" which is a legitmate response to OPs point a lot more so than your first response.

sorry, i'm a little sick today and can't seem to communicate well with anyone today...

:freak:

Perhaps I cut to the chase too quickly. I don't see how a person would have a problem with "____-American," and I still don't, so I dismissed the idea and just asked directly if the problem was "African."

i don't see how that thinking flows logically unless, as cali suggests, you're just looking for a certain racism that isn't there.

maybe i'm not even encapsulating the ops point, but what I think it is this: descendent's of europeans here in america tend to be just "white", not Irish-Americans, not German-Americans, not Franco-Americans, not Welsh-Americans, etc. they're just white.

referring to blacks as "African-Americans" tends to create an aura of a separate American.

I'm not saying that I even agree with this point, just that I think this was the point they were trying to make, and you took from it that that it was the word "african" that had an underlying implication of otherness to the OP which seemed a little out of left-field.

I'm being lead to believe that the OPs insinuating that Blacks should drop "African" from America, hmmm or I'm I reading too deep into this as far down as blacks not want to associate themselves with the word "Africans" anymore....still hhmmm!!

:shrug:


to add smiley

My original question asked whether or not black was offensive.

The otherness I was speaking of is later summed up really well by hiphopnation23:

"descendent's of europeans here in america tend to be just "white", not Irish-Americans, not German-Americans, not Franco-Americans, not Welsh-Americans, etc. they're just white.

referring to blacks as "African-Americans" tends to create an aura of a separate American."

Bornaginhooligan, why did you fixate on just the question of otherness instead of the other points I asked about such as pride in heritage or choice?

i understood what you were saying

what's so funny about this is that I'm not even commenting on whether or not I AGREE with this sentiment, only that i completely understood the point you were trying to make and was how totally misconstrued it was by certain individuals.

I saw this:

"There's also the implication of pride about one's heritage."

Well, what about that implication?

"There's also the implication of choice."

What do you mean choice? It's not like African and American are diametrically opposed.

If overseas and asked what I am, I respond "American"

When in this country, I respond "Irish-American"

When talking to a fellow Irish person, I respond," My grandparents came from Mayo"

The hyphenated description, whether it refers to race, ethnicity or religion is used to identify oneself with a certain background and outlook on life. I am no less an American because my family is Irish than is someone whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower. I just bring a different set of experiences to the party.

It's a tricky subject.

I agree with the people down thread who treat it as a formal/informal type of thing. I've had well-meaning white friends call me that and I tell them to just call me black, it's cool.

Personally I don't like it because of the "otherness" concept, and also it's just plain messy as a term. Charlize Theron is also "African-American", and so is anyone from Morocco or Egypt. I appreciate the well-meaning attitude behind it but...it just rubs me the wrong way.

It's funny though because most of the Asian people I know seem to prefer Asian-American. Different strokes, I guess. :shrug:

The notion that there is a "real" American and the rest of us are set in comparison to that really irks me. When the Murrow office building was bombed, everyone kept calling Oklahoma the heartland. What did that make the rest of us, chopped liver?

"All American" pisses me off too. 99.9% of the time it is a descriptor for a blonde haired, blue eyed white person. I guess the rest of us are Canadian or Japanese? :crazy:

I'm really ambivalent--I see the value in asserting Otherness (because all too often the "color blind" nonsense is wielded like a club to silence the concerns of POC) but I'm wary of people using it as a weapon to remind us we're not "really" American. Personally I feel people should have the freedom to identify however feels most comfortable to them. My rez cousins hate it when people say Native American--they ID as Indians and see no issue with it.

and Kos in particular. He was identified as Markos Moulitsas Zúniga. Clearly, anyone with a name like that doesn't understand how "real" Americans think!

With their damn yummy food. :evilgrin:

Maybe I'm biased 'cause I was born and raised there, but I think NY is the real "heartland". Nowhere else in the country will you find a more representative cross-section of what America really looks like: all ethnicities, all classes, all religions. It's a beautiful thing.

activists who say they want to be called that..not Native American. I guess it depends on the person, uniquely, what we want to be refered to as far as our heritage.

They get PO'd when people call them Native American.

I think this is why it's so important to keep people's feelings in mind and call them what they wish to be called. I don't mind "dyke" when used by GLBT friends but there's lesbians who hate the word and I would never call them that. (I think it's mostly a generational thing?)

say why they prefer "Indian"? I was trying to figure it out but I don't know. :)

She thinks "Native American" is uber-PC BS meant to gloss over real issues of importance to tribal communities. It's just white people trying to define red folks, again...there is some truth to that, I know I've never met a single Indian who uses "Native American". Lots of people use native but never Native American.

Wiki has an interesting article on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controversy

I feel such a sadness when I think about the way the Indians were killed, tricked, lied to, and stolen from by the "settlers". We actually have some Ojibwe blood in us that I nourish for all it's worth.

Or Aanishanabe(First People) as they prefer to be called..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ojibwa

Thanks for the link... "resentment about having a name imposed by outsiders"..I shoulda googled! Lesson learned :)

My cousins are Muskogee (Creek) and live in OK. We came from Freedmen. :)

Glad you're FREE! :)

indian isn't a bad word

indian or american indian is preferred amongst traditional folks on the rez

american indian movement isn't native american movement ;)

you're right, "native american" is white terminology

They figure it's just ANOTHER damned thing the white people have decided to call them.

:shrug:

... to their ancestral country than black folks do. For reasons that are obvious. That's why friends of mine who are *from* Africa don't like "african-american" any more than asians like asian-american. Somehow, when they're white, Americans get to keep their country name. Others, not so much.

What I want to know is why is it always white people who decide who gets called what. What happened to self-determination? Guess us colored folk need to be taught right.

Hell, nowadays I'm just calling myself Sane-American. If that's not a minority I don't know what is. :(

Fuck it I'm just gonna start calling people Dumbass-Americans. :P

Sane-American is a vanishing minority. :(

I had a friend who immigrated to America from South Africa. He was white, and very technically an "African-American." While this is probably a rarity in the US, it still means the term is inaccurate as an indicator of race.

And as time goes on, geography is going to be less and less associated with reace.

apparently completely confused. I'm old enough to remember the preferences changing quite a lot! Negro, black, African American, person of color.....

I don't understand?

African-american is a public term. Its something I use in school or my your driver's license or when discussing politics.

At home, I am black. That's the way it is, and that's the way I prefer it.

they use 'African American' as a more formal term and refer to themselves as black more casually.

Sort of like I am Irene to the bank and Renie to friends, I guess.

You use your real name in a formal setting, and a nickname otherwise.

I use african-american in formal settings, if it can't be avoided, but I never considered that to be more real. Its just something I have to use from time to time. Its no more accurate than calling myself a 'minority.'

But I've never seen a black person nor a white person.

GEIST: Also using the term 'blacks." I don't think anybody's said that since like 1973.

I thought I missed something when I read that.
As far as I knew, "black" was fine

Sometimes I think the fear of looking politically incorrect or insensitive is ingrained to keep us from starting honest dialogue and debate.

Why not just ask the question?

I'm Jewish and I've kind of wondered about why so many people have started using the term "Jewish-American", which I don't care for. People will go out of their way not to ever use the word "Jew", including other people who are of Jewish heritage. See? I could have just said "including Jews". I, for one, don't mind telling people "I'm a Jew". Others, including my mom, feel that there's an element of acrimony in that word.

So, we're kinda in the same boat here.

I didn't know there was a race called jews.. Please tell me more..

And it's in poor taste if you are.

jews are not considered a race that I am aware of..

Mostly white?

jews are not considered a race that I am aware of..

originating from the Hebrews.

It's confusing because some call themselves Jews because they practice Judaism, their ethnicity and even if they don't have parents who were Jewish but converted to Judaism.

This might help clarify it better...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew#Who_is_a_Jew.3F

It's just about terminology in the case of this thread. Whether or not Jews are a "race" is a topic far beyond our ability to discuss in this forum. That debate has raged for 150 years in forms good, bad and ugly and cannot be resolved by you or I.

track shaped like a bagel, first person to break through the motzah finish line wins. Then they spray manishevitz everywhere.

Fun for the kids.


:)


(I'm jewish. what, I can't joke now? Maybe you'd like a little humor, perhaps?)

While your ancestors were still living in trees, my ancestors were already forging checks.

"If you asked me what nationality Barack Obama, Al Sharpton or a teacher of mine was, I'd just say American."

Ah, the color blind thing, eh?

I didn't say the race thing.

See the difference thing?

The discussion is about race.

:shrug:

"Black" and "african american" aren't types of citizenship, although it can be inferred from the latter.

Hopefully you'll be judged in the end by your works and not words which are sometimes open to interpretation. All i know is I love and hate all you black, jewish, latino, gay, lesbian, scottish (well maybe not the scottish), Irish, Italian, Australian, muther fuckers with pretty much equal measure depending on how you treat me and mine.

One Love

:cry:

my name begins with a "Mc"

are both PC. Or so I've been taught in school. :shrug:

...if they were born in the US that would make them Americans I believe..

at a social gathering. They were from Tanzania. A friend of mine came in (who is Black/AA/American) and saw me talking to them but did not join us.

Later that friend asked me who those African Americans were that I was talking to. I smiled and said they are not African Americans. She went off on me (sort of joking but not really) for being politically incorrect. She said she had taught me better than that, etc. I was trying to straighten things out but she would not let me speak - could have been the booze.

Then we were joined by another friend who had also visited with the Tanzanians. He was nearby and wanted to join our animated conversation and to see what was going on. I told him that Lauren was giving me what for because I told her they were not African Americans. It took a second but then he got this shocked look on his face when he understood why I was getting the dressing down. He blurted out "They aren't Americans."

My friend Lauren had the good sense to laugh at herself and laugh with us. Now, every time I see Lauren she asks me if I have met any new Tanzanians.

And it shows how easy it is to jump to incorrect conclusions. Glad your friend could laugh at herself. We all need that ability.

I'm not big on PC-talk like "African-American" - the word "black" is fine.

:eyes:

:evilgrin:

by a term that they've expressed a preference against. However, in the absence of an individually expressed preference, I don't think anyone should be offended by either term.

ie black and white.

If you mean to be respectful and not derogatory or racist when referring to people of other races, then don't sweat it.

when I was in Haiti this summer, we found it sort of funny that Haitians call ALL Americans 'blan' or white, including the very dark skinned African American woman we were with.

Have you ever looked at the raw data from a survey that asked respondents to self-report race or ethnicity? It doesn't look ANYTHING like the U.S. Census.

they are Americans, I cant understand the (-) part. The other descriptions are trivial, white, black, brown, whatevah. They are Americans. there should be no (-)

as well. We don't have to be copies of some idealized non-ethnic white person to be Americans.

Let me preface this by saying I am Australian, I hope I cause no offence.

The other day I read something stating that it is alright for a black man to call a black woman 'bitch' but it is offensive if a white man did the same. Admittedly this is attributed to a super rich sports jock.

Personally I would never call any woman that name and find it offensive no matter who does it, but I am a foreign white male.

What say you folk?

Peace

In general, members of the same group may refer to each other with derogatory names and ascribe stereotypical actions as well, but no outsider may. Thus, I can make jokes about an Irishman drinking, but you can't (unless your Irish-Australian!).

My son in second grade had LOTS of black kids in his class, he told me. Hmmm . . . I hadn't noticed that.

Turns out that I'm black, too, and so is he, because he thought that being black referred to hair color.

Which is pretty logical, since neither of us has ever seen anyone with skin that is is truly black OR white.

... I've never known a kid who was confused about who was black and who was white.

I had to teach him never to use the green crayon to color in someone's skin.

And not to draw green hamburgers. Or pink grass.

I remember my mother being surprised when I came home from kindergarten and told her that another little girl was Irish, too. My mom knew this girl was Japanese -- but I thought she was Irish, whatever Irish was, ever since she'd worn a shamrock on St. Patrick's day.

There were many Blacks in my neighborhood who had fairer skin than the Whites. As a kid I simply concluded that black and white was like Catholic and Protestant. You had to ask if you wanted to know because you sure couldn't tell by looking.

that a classmate whose parents were from India, with skin as dark as any black kid in the class, wasn't considered black? In England, Indian kids ARE referred to as "blacks." But here in the U.S., they aren't. It's actually pretty arbitrary, and children can see that, even if all of us adults cannot.

Or else you don't know any white Cajuns or any bright black folks who could have passed if they'd chosen. Most people thought my uncle was a black man, and he was often darker than most of the blacks he knew or worked with in SE Texas. People just thought his blue eyes were an anomaly.


And though most children certainly notice color (skin, hair, crayons, cars, you name it), they do so in an innocent way UNTIL THEY'VE BEEN TAUGHT OTHERWISE. No one is born a racist, every racist is created.

they learn it, or don't learn it, from their parents.

on what color the person is.

I think that more black/AA refer to themselves as black here and few if any are offended by the term.

I usually try to refer to people the way they want to be referred to. When I worked in car insurance, one of my best friends was black, and he said he would rather be called black than "African American," which is how I initially referred to him. He was so open about discussing racial issues and how they had impacted his sense of the world. He was fantastic. I guess we became friends because he said I was not afraid to touch him, which was strange to me, since I touch everyone I like, shake hands, etc... And this was in the 90s, so this was not ancient history or anything.

I ran into the same paradox with Hispanics vs. Latino, Latinas, etc... They are sometimes particular in how they wish to be referred to. I guess I just try to follow their lead. In general, if it is necessary to say something about race I usually err on the side of using the term "African American," and allow myself to be corrected if it is offensive to the person I'm addressing.

Afterthought:

Where I grew up in New Jersey, I was the minority, and my nickname was White Cracker. It never bothered me at all, in fact it made me feel special.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

hummers

seriously, what's the point of all this?

we haven't been offended in hours. throw us a bone, here!

:spray: :rofl:

i guess it's a good diversion from all the iran white-noise.

i should just be a good duer and sit down and shut up...

I do, however, have an issue with English speakers using the term "negro".

I had to straighten out some second looey from Utah about that once.

I've frequently commented on this thinking that it would be preferable if we thought about it more and epecially re newspapers that they quickly begin to give up this term.

Notice -- once it's gone, we have to think about ourselves -- whites -- as also people of color.

Check your skin against a piece of white paper . . . .

I think it would be healthier for all of us if the "white/black . . . brown . . . yellow . . . red" references were ended.

Keep in mind -- and note the references in other posts to "pink" -- the native Indian described the European "whites" as the pig people . . . . pink!!!

There's a whole lot to think about on that subject which veers into the reason why many "cultures" don't eat pigs.

We're Irish and very fair, but my son noticed that a lot of Shanghai Chinese are lighter than us.


As a side note, my children were very offended when our pastor made a reference to people being red or yellow. They had never heard the terms red or yellow applied to people and thought it very offensive and racist.

So mine is an outside perspective.

I have known, and know, family, friends, colleagues, neighbors, teachers, and bosses who all preferred different terms. There didn't seem to be consensus. Black and African American seem to be the top two from my small circle.

I have one colleague and friend who prefers "colored." She says it's more accurate, and more inclusive.

I know some people disagree with me on that, but that's my position, anyway. I've been called "sir" in a way by a stranger that may as well have been "motherfucker," and I've been called "motherfucker" by a friend in a way that meant "friend." Does this not apply to racial terminology for some reason? Am I wrong because I'm white, so I must not get it? I'm not saying these are your positions, I'm just anticipating responses.

Edit: I'm omitting words all over the place today.

but it does come in handy when addressing a specific demographic (even though the name doesn't really ring true in a literal sense-i.e. native born black person vs. black person who is actually from Africa-or even a white person from Africa).

If I must discuss race, I now use the term Black unless I know better or have been asked otherwise. I learned my lesson after being very nicely corrected by a black individual from Martinique. :)

I also hate labels, so I usually don't call myself anything.

I identify with New Orleanians more than anyone else, no matter skin tone.... dawlin'. ;) :D

Wat cha say?

Most Indians I know use the term "Indian" rather than Native American.

It's really not hard to just defer to the wishes of others on this matter!

to describe people -- ????

:)

This discussion pertains not only to what we say personally and what we think personally, but what terms the media, including the printed press use. Those terms influence all of us.

We would hardly expect in our school text books to read "black" and "white" -- would we????

I REFUSE to tell others what they should be called, then push the "media" to comply.

When others say how they want to be addressed, I will respect that.

I don't want people making decisions for me, as a homeless person, and I won't make decisions for them.

Although, I WILL tell you that I resent being called "the homeless", as if I'm a piece of cardboard.

I'm a PERSON who is homeless, and I don't want anyone.... Dem or media, forgetting that.

We are discussing feelings and thoughts -- our own concept of people being described by their color.

When anyone is referred to as "white" does that suggest a superior status?

And might not it be more appropriate to suggest that people are "impoverished" -- rather than poor, making clear that there are systems at play which create these conditions?

I long ago stopped believing that this or that term is absolutely offensive -- some words offend some people, others offend other people. If I say something that offends somebody I tend not to freak out, don't waste time defending my use of whatever the word was, and use something else in his or her presence. People get so peevish any time somebody calls something they say into question.

*shrug* I grew up in Mississippi. Racial language was enough of a minefield that I just learned to tread carefully. My grandmother was always very proud that she said "negro" ("they like to be called that now", "now" being 1992) rather than "that other word", though with her accent she pronounced it "nigra" so the distinction was subtle at best; I guess it just always seemed odd to me that "negro" landed as heavily on my gen-X ears as a ton of bricks, even though it's just the Spanish word for "black", which is what I generally still say in my head. But I also long ago stopped believing that I could hear those words with an African American's ears, and learned to trust those who have skin in the game, as they say.

Besides "blacks" . . . .

How will "whites" feel if that term is retired???

How will whites be described??

As pink? As Eastern or Western European? Caucasian?

God forbid I should prevent someone from calling someone else "black" or "yellow" or "pink" or "white" or "mauve" or "chartreuse" or what have you. What's the worst that can happen? You'll piss people off. People who don't care about pissing other people off will say whatever they want; people who do care about it will figure out what words offend what people.

The anti-PC crowd will whine for days about PC, but nobody has yet to show any harm. Nobody is going to lose their jobs for calling someone "black"; it's just that people may well think they're assholes if they keep using the word after they've been asked not to.

I have a co-worker who is 2nd generation Haitian, she considers herself Haitian, not African-American.

When I begin to feel that "black" is offensive is when I read a paper like the NY Times and see them use "black," or even worse, "blacks."

I think when you take the word for a color and turn it into a plural, it is dismissive - both for white people and black people. We don't call Mexicans "brown," anymore, nor Indians, "reds" and Chinese, "yellows" in our newspapers.

So why do they do it with B & W?

I "feel" this way but can't intellectually explain it.

On second thought, I see no reason to defend myself to an ignoramus post, seeking to make combat from what was a sincere answer. Furthermore, it's right there, a context where it's felt that "black," singular, is not okay.

And stop calling groups of people by color . . . ???

I would!!!

I thought you were born in Italy.

:hi:

that she is black. she is really offended being called african american. very much feels the american she has been since birth along with generations in her family. feels well in place.

this is the issue.

i truly believe out of respect to use whatever title a group may want me to. that is an easy thing to do. BUT all are individual and i was surprised to see the african american title i was insisting people adopt was not appreciated by some blacks.

my friends are more comfortable with black, so in familiarity i use that term with them. when addressing outside my comfort group i go to african american and people can correct me if they wish.

What am I supposed to call a black guy from Canada? From Russia? From Germany? Besides his name I mean?

The other problem is that African American is 7 syllables versus 1 for black. Try saying African American 10 times fast.

Another problem: African American is a logical fallacy. The only African Americans out there are people born in an African country that move to America. When I was a kid there was a white kid in my class who was born in Algeria. He's an African American.

As a white person, I don't think I have the ability to say one way or the other. My wife, who is african american, definitely prefers AA. She often finds the term black offensive depending on how it is used.

Not only did they refer to themselves that way, they were proud to do so.

They subscribed to James Brown's "I'm black and I'm proud," and I never heard
them tell it otherwise.

(I always subscribed to Popeye's "I yam what I yam," but that's just me)

:)

:rofl:

Actually, Miss Teen SC was just way out in front of something that's always kind bugged the shit out of me. That the USA co-opted the term American from the thirty-some other countries on these two continents.

Americans of their ability to cast out the Oligarchs that rule the day.

We are Americans. Black, White, Tan, Brown, Pink, Green, Red and Blue...once the nuance infects the language and divides those who stand opposed to tyranny the fight is hampered...

We will never be 300 let alone 30 against the Corporates Hordes that are hell bent on tearing apart the very fabric of this country.

Our mental shields must be strong. Our hearts impervious to segregation. Our minds steadfast on the goal.

Invincible-Americans...

Peace.

when I first came to the states. He ogled me as if wanting to kill me, until I explained I didn't know better. Back in the Netherlands we used to listen to a lot of Ice-T rapmusic. "Yo what's up nigger," was the first thing that came to my mind upon meeting my new classmates. When they understood, they resolved to calling me (the funny foreigner) 'cracker'. And that was that.

Mind you, although we didn't have slavery back in the 1800's in Holland, we did buy, sell, and transport slaves from Africa and North America. Also Apartheid is a Dutch word...

know that the term N...... is a racial slur? Unbelievable!

but we tend to copy a lot. There's much more political incorrectness in the streets, more public dissent too. It all blends in. We show breasts (including nipples!!!)on tv, we don't censor out shit or fuck on tv. We get all the uncensored music from the states as well, with all the familiar words that we know we're going to get. They don't put that sticker on it for naught, do they?

So, yeah, to answer your question: we know it's racial slur. We're over it. There're more important things to worry about. Like getting our government to break free from the USA, cause we're diving deep and the walls are getting close and I'll be damned if this isn't called an incident pit.
To be frank - we (europeans who get uncensored news) see what's going on and we think it's bad. DU might be the exception. In the Netherlands, we have an expression, something like this: The priest and the mayor make a pact - "You keep 'em poor, I'll keep 'em stupid".

That's what's going on, but by keeping most of the people too busy working to be reading newspapers or internetnews, they get away with it. You can't pull shit like this out of your bunnyhat in a country where people work to live, instead of living to work. But that can also be attributed to not only the american addiction to oil, but also to large household products (that are mainly useless), and the overall need to have 'bigger things' than thy neighbour.

Sorry if I went to far, but (me too, me too) I scream at the moon everyday for the injustice that's being done by the large corporations worldwide, and here we are also seeing the effects. That, and I like to rant...

In my case it all happened when I got on and off airplanes, and the labels were courtesy of other people. :eyes: My family was under the impression we were Irish-Americans, but that's okay.

I try to keep up with whatever the communities of color are currently saying they want to be labeled as. It's only polite. In my lifetime I have gone from saying Negro, to Afro-American, to Black, to African-American, and back again to Black, in an effort to keep up.

I prefer not to be sharply corrected for my pains, however. It's happened.

Hekate

though I am also not black.

I persoannly find african American pretentouse sounding and unnecessary. And I have no problem being called white.

But then white peopel havent' had the history where they needed to worry about being defined by race.

However, the few times this subject has come up, I have yet to get any complaints from a black person on being called black.

What is the appropriate way to describe a population that is black, but not entirely American?

Just as an illustration, how should black NHL players be described? While I can think of one current African American NHL star, Mike Greer, the rest of the current black NHL players I am aware of are Canadian, except for one Swede. (It may seem trivial, but as a hockey fan, it brought the question to my mind. That and the fact that some figure skating fans will call Surya Bonaly an African American, when she is French.)

Just call me Chipper and leave it at that. Hell, Ray Charles can see that I'm black. ;)

It's really quite funny in an American paper when they describe a foriegn black leader as african american.

There have been several polite terms used in the U.S. to refer to persons of African descent: “colored,” “negro,” “Black,” “Afro-American,” and “African American.” “Colored” is definitely dated, though “people of color” is now widely used with a broader meaning, including anyone with non-European ancestry, sometimes even when their skin is not discernibly darker than that of a typical European. A few contemporary writers like to defy convention by referring to themselves as “negro.” “Black,” formerly a proudly assertive label claimed by young radicals in the 1960s, is now seen by some people as a racist insult. Some people insist on capitalizing “Black,” but others prefer “black.”The safest and most common neutral term is “African American,” but Americans sometimes misuse it to label people of African descent living in other countries or even actual Africans. To qualify as an “African American” you have to be an American. Although it is traditional to hyphenate “African-American,” “Irish-American,” “Cuban-American,” etc., there is a recent trend toward omitting the hyphen, possibly in reaction to the belittling phrase “hyphenated Americans.” However, some styles still call for the hyphen when the phrase is used adjectivally, so that you might be an African American who enjoys African-American writers. Omitting the hyphen may puzzle some readers, but it’s not likely to offend anyone.










http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/african.html

But why is it important to have the 'correct' word anyway?

In other words, black is a nice short hand for describing someone,(so is white) but why do we need to say the "African American NHL player Mike Greer" or the "Black Surya Bonaly". As if the fact that they are of African descent is releavant to thier career and needs special attention. Or worse, as if their being black and successful is unusal enough to be newsworthy on it's own.

And this often goes with other minorities as well..the Female Soccor team, that GAY Baseball/Basketball/Football player..ect

When white athletes or white people in general become famouse, the fact that they are white isn't important.

and don't even get me started on people of mixed race.

I am not directing this at you. This is just an observation I have had.

My best friend's sister is married to a black man who was born and raised in Jamaica. He's never been to Africa. Is he also an African-American? Or is he a Jamaican-American? I also have a black co-worker who is from Trinidad. What about him?

I miss coloured. but if I have to choose I pick Black. I know to many white people from Africa so African-American is a bit silly, nobody wears an afro any more, nigra is a bit to familiar if you know what I mean and negro is to French for my tastes.




(Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)

And I would always say, they are black, not purple, blue, orange or green.

My husband is white, was born in South Africa to American parents and is, thusly, African-American.

:shrug:

bee u tee full. simply beautiful. congrats. two boys? i have two boys too. they are a blast. enjoy

But Im white. I use 'black' mostly and no blacks I talk with express outrage. Of course, suggest a 'black' criminal (Mike Vick) should be sent to prison and you become a member of the KKK.

I was born in 1971, and both of my parents were, and are, activists. I related to Black is beautiful, Black Power, and the Godfather of Soul. Black has always sounded more universal, but also more defiant and political than African-American.

I once had a friend call an Aborigines man African American and I was like wtf are you kidding me.

only to divide us and that we should begin to see one another as simply human.

Yes, there are times when we need to know if someone is Chinese or "black" . . .

mainly, I think, to ensure that everyone is treated fairly and we have a long way to go on that!!!

There are ways of thinking which are reinforced by concepts of "black" and "white" --

there is empowerment and disempowering involved.

I think we may be near the point where we decide there are better ways of doing this -- ?????