Anyone who thinks Ahmadinedjad is anything but an excuse has missed the last forty years

*** Dictators who the U.S. (often the CIA) assisted into power, like Pinochet, the Argentinian generals, and Saddam. In the cover story, the U.S. was "shocked, shocked to learn" that these dictators, with whom "we could do business" were "overzealous" murderous, corrupt thugs.

Wow! Naomi Klein is a fabulous writer. She has assembled facts that have been sitting out there, and woven them into a well-documented, compelling (albeit nauseating) narrative of torture of people and of societies. Its also handwriting on the wall for where the U.S. is headed next.

Yeah, the Lieberman-Kyl ammendment isn't "binding", but it sure is an indication of which way the wind is blowing. After the last week (someone really needs to name that week, when the sellout of the voters of 2006 went completely "full Monty"). The cooperation between the DLC dems and the GOP is now a fait accompli. Progressives are now officially reprimanded for daring to try to stop the current war, much less prevent the next one.

According to Klein's model, each political/military shock to a country enables an economic shock. Since the U.S. economy has already been shocked into organ failure by outsourcing, any further shock will knock us completely out of first world status. Make no mistake, what little is left of America's tiny middle class is about to get stomped.

So, anyone who buys into the distraction/excuse of the Ahmadinejad bogeyman is "part of the problem" in my book. The propaganda campaign against Iran is in full swing, with both the creation of the latest "Hitler" we must knock down, and the passage of legislation that adds further bogus deniabillity to an already-planned attack. Any day now, we will witness the next naked oil grab by the imperialist corporate mercenaries running the U.S. But this time, it will be the starting pistol in a classic round-em-up and torture-em domestic crackdown inside the U.S., the kind that Klein documents over and over again in her book. New Orleans was just a dry run, and they didn't even bother to open the detention camps that Haliburton has built.

I can see it coming, but I can't stop it.

arendt

that Mahmoud is a CIA plant that Bushler could use as an excuse to continue the neocon agenda.

but it was probably Cheney's doing, as I don't think Bush is capable of a thought that complex.

Ahmadinejad is just the classic thug-promotes-counterthug way that the right scares people everywhere into fighting for them.

We definitely created Ahmadinejad. The details of how are irrelevant to stopping the coming war.

arendt

the extremists and the center to assure Khatami lost.

Similar thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1893370

I'm afraid this is going to get a number of K&Rs and make no difference to those who will just repeat the same stuff about how distasteful Ahmadinejad is.

Holler, Holocaust Denier, and people take it serious. Ahmadinejad is the Iranian version of our bush. They got stuck with him and his stupid remarks. He becomes the scape goat for the powers that be.

Cheap political media rhetoric. They can talk about that nonsense and barely mention the "non-binding resolution that was voted on in the Senate to start the fear mongering as fodder for the candidates. They damn well better stop that battle cry. We can't afford another Iraq.

*constant war* is proving to be much more valuable to the neo-theo-cons.

maintaining a constant war keeps all the US tax money going to private business (norquist tub-drowning).

maintaining a constant war provides cover for an authoritarian regime the complicity of the masses in eroding democratic freedoms such.

in the context of constant war people will gladly check THEIR OWN speech and beat themselves up for stepping too far out of line (can't criticize other Dems, must toe line).

we'll accept greater spying and greater restrictions on travel (as if it isn't ridiculous already). the constant state of war justifies a constant of panic with our "security forces" here at home (set tazer to stun).

as long as there is constant war, we WOULD be smart not to call attention to ourselves in public (leave those political tshirts and ideas at home -- Best Buy isn't the place for democracy).

remaining activists stupid enough to find themselves in a dust-up, do so knowing it's unlikely people will come to their defense -- your supposed friends will eventually attack you.

constant war is much more valuable than the oil because constant war provides this odd kind of slaver -- which, even it it can't be sold on the market, its entertainment value is worth its weight in gold for wingnuts who are basking in the demise of the opposition.

given the military idiocy of attacking Iran with anything short of nukes,
I'm beginning to think that we will use a conventional attack on them
(possibly in response to a false-flag terror attack in the U.S.) as an
excuse for martial law at home.

ON EDIT: I'm sure that we can pulverize enough of their pipelines to keep them
distracted long enough to establish martial law. Then, we can just
hang on to Iraq and threaten more bombings if the Iranians do anything
about it. (END EDIT)

If you read the case histories in Shock Doctrine, you see that the
important thing is to apply shock therapy immediately after the attack.
There is no way for us to do that in Iran, we simply don't have the
instruments of repression or the presence of a local base of Friedmanites.

But we have both things right here in the good ole US of A.

arendt

there was lots of ink on this in April 2006. That's at least a year and a half of active organizing on the ground -- and, it's not like we ever fully "got out" after 1954. we've been covert on the ground for decades.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1911128

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1910943

that was one of the questions the Iranians put to us in their
response to the grilling A..nejad (i am tired of typing. this is
my abbrev.)

So, in addition to the infrastructure bombing, we can tie them
up with guerillas.

Boy, are they going to hate us forever for what we have done to them:

1) the preening, megalomaniac butcher the Shah, and his secret police (SAVAK)
2) helping Saddam invade and kill them for eight years.
3) supporting the Kurds (a despised minority) in a guerilla war against them.

What is the with the Kurds anyway? How stupid do you have to be to
volunteer to be the U.S.'s hatchetman after the way the U.S. screwed
them after the first Gulf War? The Turks hate them, and the Iranians
do too. Are they mad dogs like the anti-Castro Cubans? Can anybody
fill me in?

arendt

democratic in a meta-contextual sense.

The "state of war" is a useful illusion. The US is not at war, rather they are occupying a foreign nation and creating the illusion that a war is ongoing for explicit political ends, nationally and internationally. Hunting down political enemies on a global scale is not war. Waging covert operations globally to counter political opposition to global corporatism is not a state of war. It is instead imperial criminality of a self-assigned law-giver, police, torturer, prosecutor, jury, and executioner.

The greatest crime is that committed by the citizens of a democracy who allow their government to pursue such ends with such methods. The citizens are the ones who must pay in the end, as we saw on 9/11, as will be seen in taxes for decades to come, and as will be seen in the reactions of the opposition fostered by the current bellicose political activities.

The question is, with opinion polls running 75% against Bush, and
factoring in that most of his support comes from the Solid (fundie,
red) south, you have to figure that those who want out of Iraq
now have to be at the 90% level in the East and West Coast cities.

How can we break through this 90% of the people against vs 75%
of the Congress in favor of war TOTAL DISCONNECT?

What ACTION will make the Congress vote the will of the people?
Is there any way to recall a Congressman or Senator these days?

arendt

From 2005:


http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0830/p03s01-wome.html

Edit to add this from 2000:


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/10/30/iraq.un.euro.reut/

Iraq and Iran didn't have much in common, except the currency of the oil sales.

Bill

the unexplainable. What the hell is really going on in this country? Nothing makes sense, we seem to be going out of our way to defeat ourselves.?!

Rice is running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. She is worse than useless. Our real govt. is hiding and bush is acting hostile, arrogant and ignorant trying to convince people he is our great leader. It's like a really bad movie.

We are going to attack Iran for the same reason we attacked Iraq, because they were selling oil in euros. Any subversion of the artificial underpinnings of our economy will be met with force. Wall Street cannot allow our economy to collapse until they have divested their interest in it.

Bill

Can you briefly explain?

Norquist has been noted for his widely quoted quip: "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.

(I lifted that from Wiki)

Bath water if you would drag in George Pordgie and now please hold him still while we get ready to
Thrust his cute little chimp like face under the suds."

the "no tears" shampoo bubble bath formula would be best - no need to cause pain or torture

eom

they can't say we never warned them.

like code pink.

Darnit Arendt,

Now, I am going to have to buy a copy of Ms. Klein's book. As if I didn't have a tall enough stack on the table in my reading room already.

I am very happy that you decided to continue posting on DU. There are a few of us here that have our minds open to learning, hang in there. I look forward to informative posts made by you and others. DU is such an amazing place if you can learn to filter out the crap. It is of infinite value for me to have a place where I can come to exchange ideas and discuss concerns with intelligent like minded folk. As quickly as the Bush-Cheney, Lieberman-Kyl types create new horrible realities, most of my thoughts never get a chance to fully form before the next possible horror is heaped on. My poor spinning brain could not possibly keep up on it's own. When I come here I can, sometimes, fuse my thoughts with those of others in order to end up with something useful that can be discussed with people outside of DU. With the information gleaned here, I feel more confident to go out into the world better able to express my ideas and even debate (never one of my strengths). I meet a lot of 'Red & Corn Fed' Republicans here in Indiana and now, right now, many of them are having huge doubts about what they have been 'fed'. If I can make an intelligent point or a good solid argument as to why their next vote should not go to the guy with the (R) behind his name we're all better off for it. Thank you!

If I may... I do not presume to know your mind and I hope not to offend you with what I'm going to type below. Please, pardon me if I seem to have a case of foot in mouth disease.

As per your "I can see it coming, but I can't stop it." comment...

First, I hope you're very wrong. I would like to think you may have meant, "I can almost see it coming, but we still have a chance of stopping it." Secondly, even if you CAN see it coming, you could not possibly expect to stop it single-handedly.

IMO, the only difference in our perspective seems to be that while the proverbial glass does hold 1/2 of its capacity in water, you see it as being half empty and I see it as half full.

You seem so resigned in your vision of a hopeless future that I am concerned for you.

> I would like to think you may have meant, "I can almost see it coming,
> but we still have a chance of stopping it." Secondly, even if you CAN
> see it coming, you could not possibly expect to stop it single-handedly.

The thing that depressed me was that I saw how useless a community DU
is for helping me to stop it. The classic leftwing "herding cats" scenario
is still in play at DU when it comes to the imminent "shocking" of our
own country.

Last week they dropped any pretense that the Dems stood for anything. It
is now clear that about 25 senators and 80 representatives have any semblance
of a commitment to peace and constitutionality. And yet, the endless
flamewars about hopelessly compromised DLC candidates (Hillary and Barack)
go on like nothing has changed.

DU is not the means to action. It is a ungentlemanly social club where the
main activity is slagging anyone who disagrees, even minutely, with your
POV.

Hence, I am investigating kos. But, until I figure it out, I will continue
to post here.

arendt

Yes, you have welcomed me and recently. It is nice to see you also.

:hi:



Any attempt at herding cats is wasted effort, I agree.

Cats who are so independent, willful, or just plain stubborn cannot be warned of how bad it will hurt. They must need the actual experience of falling flat on their backs to learn anything.

You would think that the D.C. Fat Cats would be motivated to catch some of those big rats scurrying around. Too much Catnip & Kibble?

:shrug:



I do seem to be having some luck with sheeple that I come into contact with 'round these parts of the country, but they have been conditioned to follow.

:evilgrin:



Don't let it get you down. Keep up the good fight!

That includes our three kids and three grandkids of voting age. They are nearly radical. I love it. Now, the in-laws are another matter. They just think I need to get a life, bowling, shopping or what have you. Ugh, been there and done that, throw in bridge, loved it and the "girls". Now it is strictly family. I suspect my in-laws are beginning to see why I have been so breathless explaining what the repubs are doing and what the Dems can do to fix things. Every convert and dollar contributed could change the world.

Must admit every election season when the votes come in it is terribly disappointing that soooo few get what the repubs and bush in particular are doing, and continue to keep the Inhofe's of the world in office. I take a couple of alka seltzers and several beers and get on DU and rant.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

many D.U.er's have missed the last 40 years, except for instantly glomming onto and discussing the Jewish Holocaust :boring:as if the other Peoples that were fried in the ovens by Hitler and his minions are seemingly insignificant in comparison. <shakes head> These people are biting the NeoCon Propaganda bait. This further fuels the fire for using Ahmadinedjad as an excuse.

Hope they choke on their bait when the U.S. starts attacking innocent people in Iran! :grr:

if the SC doesn't like him, he's gone. Its like the Scalia gang
was running the country and Bush is just the figurehead they like.

arendt

in Iran? They control the courts, and the military as well. Amadinijad has little real power.

:hi:

http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen200512190833.asp

It just hurts my head to think about this. Imagine if it were true. Ouch.

Thanks for the story -- fitting "eulogy." Sadly, "dead" or alive, he's made his putrid mark on foreign policy that will last for years to come.

But, hey, I put a lot of effort into defusing that sub-thread. I supported Skinner.

That is how I get paid back?

arendt

it all just because it stemmed from that one comment about him.

but mine was pulled, nonetheless, because it was following the sub thread -- probably got pulled because it stemmed from one poster's comment re: Skinner.

:)

Maybe it just needs a :kick:

:bounce:

he and Bush will both leave office within 7 months of each other.

The Kurds largely did the dirty work on that one for the Turks, although at the behest of the Turkish govt.

Sorry, a little OT. I'm new, and haven't quite figured out your system of answering direct quotes.

click on the "HTML lookup table" in "Message Options', just above the window that you type your "Message".

In that table, you will find a tag for the box quote:

(left square bracket)div class="excerpt"(right square bracket) YOUR TEXT HERE (left square bracket)/div(right square bracket)

Happy posting,

arendt

(age 12), and have step-family who still live there. The US has been messing with Iran since 1953. (US and UK conspired together to oust Mossadeq; yes, it was about oil.)

What we in the US fail to understand is this: the Iranian people distinguish between governments and peoples, and they realize that governments often do not represent the thinking of their peoples. This is why they (for the most part) still like Americans, but hate our government. The loyalty of the majority of Iranian people is to the country and its history, not to which group is currently in power.

Pres. Ahmed. is a figurehead and does not have anything to do with policy. So it does not matter what he thinks, whether it is about the Holocaust or if the moon is made of green cheese. I think of the Iranian office of president as being the equivalent of a hood-ornament on a car; it is attached to the car, but has nothing to do about what direction the car travels or how the car runs. This whole thing about his visit was propaganda.

There were a few Iranian friends in grad school. It was funny to introduce them to some redneck American who could not believe his eyes because these Eye-rah-nians did not have horns, hoofs and pitchforks as he was expecting from all them tall tales from the 80s. Most Iranian students were mellow and polite, even when some of the Americans managed to be rude, ignorant and abusive in return. Yet, some of the redneck jackasses would make the point that the Eye-rah-nians were the ones bringing all the trouble.

I guess it is the MO of some people in this country: beat the shit out of someone, and then complain about the violent demeanor of the victim who did not even throw a single punch.

Unfortunately Americans often fail to extend the same benefit of the doubt when separating the policies of the leadership of a country, and the people living in said country.

Couldn't have said it better myself. BTW: Nice avatar.

Kick to keep arendt around and so I can read through later.

important book in the last 30 years and everyone on this board needs to read it.

Would it be appropriate to include them as victims of the slaughter? They were certainly not pro-military-industrial-complex.

The analysis is radical in scope and implications and is uncomfortably difficult to assail. Until we start to deal with the reality of the situation we find ourselves in, we are going to be manipulated and diverted and used by the system, played for the fools that we are.

It's the corrrupt corporate kleptocracy and war party, stupid.

i keep geting it mixed up.

What opposition party?

Look at health care policy and war policy, in both cases the duopoly offers up only fake choices. Mandated individual private insurance purchases are the bipartisan scam to avoid removing the corrupt rent extraction from the health services by the kleptocracy. Not one mainstream candidate will offer up the obvious solution to the ever escalating costs and ever dwindling private coverage: expand medicare to everyone and cut the kleptocracy out of the middle. While mouthing opposition to the management of the occupation of the oil fields of mesopotamia, the left half of the duopoly clearly intends to continue the occupation, move the pnac agenda forward, and is pretty solidly gungho regarding an expansion of the adventure into Iran. Permanent war for the MIC, king of the hill as the strategy to deal with peak oil, and nevermind about the catastrophic climate change that is now in progress.

...but will pitt's gonna vote dem no matter what.

Arendt, you are a genius. Thank you so much for this post.

Nominated!

and uneducated.

Now is he a Hitler-type tyrant? Um, no. He does what the mullahs want him to do.

I'm sorry but between denying the Holocaust and stating that there are no gays in Iranistan, I have no respect for him. At all.

So he was a college professor. Then, is he lying about these "truths" he seeks to share with us, then?

:hi:

It's just another remake with a different director.

Klein's book -- as economic analysis; as revisionist history; and as social accusation -- is the most impactive book I have read in years. An absolute MUST for anyone who wants to see the true march to economic fascism for which we have been the Judas Goat. It's too bad we can't run a Canadian for public office in this country.