Something for the no difference crowd to remember

The US House of Representatives recently passed an expansion of SChip which was intended to add millions of poor and lower middle class children to the rolls of those covered by insurance. The vote was 265 to 159. Of the no votes 151 were Republicans. The current House is 232 to 201 with one of the Democrats non voting. That means the GOP broke 151 no with 50 yes votes or non voting, while the Democrats broke 8 no with 223 yes votes or non voting. Apparently in addition to Pelosi there were 8 non voting members. Assuming all of those were Democrats, the Dems broke 216 to 8 to 8. The GOP 50 to 151. Just over 75% of Republicans voted against insuring those children while just under 95% of Democrats voted to insure them. 75% of the GOP would let poor and middle class kids die in the streets while 95% of Democrats would insure them. That is a pretty big difference at least to the kids who would die.

but you make a valid point.

crowd will still refuse to acknowledge the truth of your argument.

This is a good one.

Also, I ask them:

Do you REALLY think President Gore would have invaded Iraq for no real reason?

Do you REALLY think President Kerry would have totally abandoned New Orleans to die?

If the answer to either question is NO (I believe with all my heart both are), how many lives is that? Which of those people now dead who would otherwise be alive are you willing to sacrifice for your ideology? Could you look their families in the eye and say it?

The Democrats don't want African-Americans to vote Republican. Republicans don't want African-Americans to vote.

And welcome to DU :hi:

Nah - not really - I just wanted to see what spouting hysterical bullshit was like.

I was told it was just like the real thing.
However, the consistency was similar, but a little grainy and hard to swallow.
It also had a tendency to have fewer things added that I love and more things I hated added for filler.
Overall, the experience left me craving REAL ice cream...but nobody can ever say that I didn't try it and was being totally unfair to the generic brand. For me...it's gotta be the REAL thing or nothing.

we're still in Iraq and there's no impeachment-- nothing else matters.

feel there is not enough of a differnece.

Single-payer universal health care NOW!
End the immoral and illegal occupation of Iraq NOW!
And NO to an immoral and illegal attack on IRAN!

Hillary's yes vote on the Lieberman amendment was a disgrace. When Bush decides to attack, is she going to say ONCE AGAIN she just never believed he would do such a nasty thing?

And Obama's failure to vote on such an important issue was just as bad, if not worse. Is this the "new" politics? Looks more like the old spinelessness to me.

The majority of Americans want an end to the Bush madness. What will it take for our "leaders" to stand to the wannabe tyrant?

"(many of us) feel there is not enough of a differnece. "

That's why I'll get frustrated and scream and yell, and it's why Hillary is not my first or even second choice. As a caller said to Randi last week, "When can we have some Democrats we don't have to constantly pressure to do the right thing?"

I gave the nice young thing in DiFi's office what for on her vote on Lieberman/Kyl. I hope I was courteous, but I was so damned mad.

That said, I don't see any hope but to keep at them. Trying a third party will just get us more and more Republicans.

But the question is whether the average, non-political American can see the difference. Who do they represent? The folks who are struggling to pay their bills, who are trying to stay ahead of their rent or mortgage, car payments, health and car insurance, utilities, transportation costs, etc, or the people who make all the money and make all the decisions?

The problem isn't necessarily the reality, but the perception. And there are a LOT of people who don't believe ANY politician speaks for them. Partially out of ignorance, but partially out of the simple fact that many of the decisions made affect them negatively, even though they may have very good reasons for making them.

Take adding a 8 cents a gallon gas tax on top of the highest gas prices the country had ever seen. Necessary? Maybe. But painful for those who couldn't afford it? Hell, yeah.

Some of the more sane Justices are probably going to retire soon. I don't think any of our Democratic candidates would poison the Court with right-wing Justices the way that the Republicans would. Anybody who truly cares about civil liberties, abortion rights, social justice, etc. would be a fool to not support the Democratic candidate in 2008!

I'm not discounting the importance of the SChip program, but when it comes to the really critical stuff -- the war, the economy, healthcare, civil rights and liberties, clean elections, etc. -- there's not a whole lot of difference . . .

It's like 2000 all over again...the Nader nadir "there's no difference"...and we saw how well that worked out for this country.

So there's no difference between booooosh and Clinton? I guess Clinton cut taxes to the rich, took us into wars for profit and nominated right wing nut jobs to the Supreme Court (ya know that Breyer guy). Or that the Democrats who voted for the Webb ammendment (none broke on that one) are the same as those who keep defending this carnage and calling those who question anything "unAmerican". Yep...guess there's no difference.

In my 30 plus years of voting, I don't think there's been a candidate that's been completely to my liking. The only candidate I would have come close was assasinated in June, 1968...before I could vote...and even that year, many criticized RFK (who supported the Vietnam war in its early days) and supported Gene McCarthy. Life's not all up or down, you make the best choice you can and hope for the best.

Methinks there are some who live in some very blue areas and expect all Democrats to be "liberal" or whatever definition they put...similar to right wingers who claim "booosh isn't a true conservative". It's this polarization that gets amplified here as the perception of the Democratic party I see on DU is a lot different than the one I see when meeting with local voters...especially Democrats.

Truth is I'm not "in love" with any of the choices, but I'm not gonna be voting for best friend or savior...I'm going to be voting for the person who can best end the insanity of the past 7 years...move this country back to where it was. If that person is Hillary Clinton, so be it. Who am I to question how several million primary voters who will cast votes for her. I guess they're all wrong, eh?

There are some Democrats who are more "centrist" or even conservative than others...but these people were elected by people in their areas who probably share similar views. That's what a Representative Democracy is about.

:kick:

We don't need another republican administration.