The corporatists do not belong in my Democratic party.

I don't want Medicare part D spread to the rest of the social safety net and I believe that Hillary Clinton will do this if elected. She will do what George W bush has done with Medicare Part D. Hillary already brags that the government has no role in her new health care program.

I joined the Democratic party in 1972 when a war hero and pilot lost to a boorish mean spirited Republican in the presidential election.

History may not repeat itself but you can see similarities as well as differences.

I do not want to see government business partnerships like Medicare Part D which does not help the middle class. It makes as much sense as the police joining forces wih the Mafia or Cosa Nostra.

Hillary, I don't want your New Democrat politics ruining my party. The DLC must go.

Join the Republican party if you want a home. We in the Democratic party realize the need for corporations and capitalism but not the version the DLC and Republicans practice, namely predatory capitalism.

Perhaps Predatory capitalism will turn into a meme. Predatory capitalism does not imply we do not like capitalism and the opposition will attempt to make it look that way. We Democrats want responsible capitalists who do not act as predators, monopolists, poorbashers, privatizers of government, outsources and seekers and defenders of the cheapest labor they can find.

We Democrats believe that government appears the solution in the areas of unemployment, health care, setting minimum wages, workplace and product safety, retirement and disability income and we will not allow the private sector to compromise this.


There appear areas where the private sector should make products and services but under the watchful view of the government and there appear areas where the government should help the public and not contract to the private sector.


Out of my party corporatists and the DLC. If Hillary gets the nomination I will vote for her on another party line other than the Democrats but I hope someone else gets the nomination who will



1. Help get rid of Medicare Part D and put the benefit in Part B without the extra premium, extra yearly deductible, the means test, the coverage gap and remove the medicare part B means test.

2. Help enact a $10 an hour minimum wage.

3. Help enact single payer universal health care.

4. End the war within 6 months.

You mean moderate Republicans hold sway in my Democratic party.

Do you believe Government should use the private sector in the social safety net?

Look at Medicare Part D and how it does not help the middle class.

We will continue to elect the best candidate and set policy. They can continue to whine.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Stop, yer killing me.

The RNC media plan is to fluff her now so she can win the nom. If she does, they'll gut her in the general.

Now I've seen it all. Who does that? WHO??

I supported the war in Afghanistan even though Bush provoked the 9-11 attacks over oil.

I did not support the Iraq invasion because Bush wanted to use it to get oil and also political capital to destroy the social safety net, which most of the 2008 Republican presidential candidates want to do through privatization.

There appears no place in my Democratic party for moderate Republicans.

If I want a pizza, or a car, or a swimming pool, or a home then I will rely on the private sector and govenment will make sure products appear safe.

If I want health care insurance, retirement income, disability income, unemployment insurance, etc the social safety net then I want the government to do it without the private sector attached to it like a parasite like in Medicare Part D. If you like Medicare Part D, you have no place in my Democratic Party.

This is a new one to me, I apologize if it is common knowledge but could you please expand on this?

Thanks.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has feathers like a duck...

How is that different from just regular Liberals?

And while you're at it,
How is a DLC Corporate Shill different from a Republican Corporate shill.

AND
If Corporate shills should be allowed inside the Democratic Party BIG Tent, why bother to have a different tent from the Republicans?

Are you saying that Nader was correct?

which is usually the case with so called "moderates."

I'll only be voting for Democrats from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

without putting every health insurance company out of business?

The health insurance companies will switch to auto, life, homeowners, flood insurance.

The government will turn into the only insurer of health care. Bye bye Blue Cross Blue Shield, Aetna ( not glad I met ya), etc.

I'm not saying your vision doesn't make sense. But the things America had accomplished need to be accentuated, not destroyed. Besides, it's not responsible of government to play a hand in destroying an industry. Democrats had their chance 50 years ago to socialize healthcare, and that time has passed. At this point we have to work with what we have, and that involves encouraging corporate interests to work for the benefit of the public instead of the benefit of shareholders. It's probably a useless gesture, but I am asking you, if necessary, please vote for what you consider the lesser of two evils... history does not care about withheld votes.

I do not want companies involved with government health insurance. I'm not giving up on socialized health care.

You do "Know" that the police departments and the fire departments appear socialized for decades now don't you? I want that for health insurance and health care.

When you call the police or fire department they do not ask you for your credit card. I want that for when I need to go to the Doctor and hospital.

There already appears a place for those who believe that corporations should take care of health care and not the government: The Republican party. You might want to look them up.


What good does moderate Republicans in my party asking me to vote for moderate Republicans in my party if the result comes to moderate Republican legislation?

Bill Clinton did a decent job but he threw welfare beneficiaries under the bus.

I don't want Hillary Clinton as my next President.

The DLC and moderate Republicans must leave my Democratic party.

Seriously, if you can give me some historic examples of how 'your' Democratic party has destroyed industries... I'm not stubborn and I could reconsider my perspective.

The health care industry needs improvement. We can all see that. Is that what your liberal ideas tell you to do. Kill a lame horse? Or make it better.

It's called free trade. Check into it.

Can you cite examples of how free trade (or the DLC) has destroyed any major industry?

And don't waste our time with pretend ignorance. It's not believable, and it's not funny.

It really does not answer my question about how any industry has been destroyed.

Please keep in mind, I fully agree that in an ideal world healthcare would be socialized. But that chance passed 50 or more years ago. If we were to do it now, an industry would have to be destroyed and your citation has not provided me with an example of how our government has ever destroyed an industry in the past.

I guess that view is foreign to you.

And CD's are in decline too. The market decided that people wanted something different there and many businesses went out of business in the process. The economy didn't die as a result.

The same thing for health care. Why should we continue to reward insurance companies that contribute to the overly high and inefficient overhead (30% plus) of our health care when just about every other civilized country in the world does a better job of providing decent health care for ALL of its citizens than we do and with a LOT less inefficient overhead. It's because our health care insurance industry isn't realy a true "market economy" industry. It is so dependent on government handouts/intervention on its side.

What we are paying for with these inefficiencies are all of these handouts by the health insurance industry to government, which fuels their campaigns, and the corrupt coffers of the media that they spend their campaign money on. And all of that extra advertising they do to convince us that they are some sort of "necessary" part of our health care industry, which they are not! It's time to stop this institutionalized welfare bribery of the health insurance industry.

I understand your concern about all those who would be displaced. Here is an article about a 2004 study that recommends spending $20 billion on retraining and job placement programs for insurance workers and others who would lose their jobs under single-payer universal health care.

There is a larger problem, believe it or not, than the healthcare crisis. It's corporate irresponsibility. If that can be cured we're on our way to fixing the healthcare problem with the resources we've already created.

I hate corporations, probably more than anyone else in this thread, but they live under strict government control, so government has the power to improve their behavior, to the point that they can be forces that we may one day trust.

There just is no need to socialize healthcare, since the federal government has the power to take control of the existing system.

I can't believe that people who aren't up in arms about paying for car insurance are complaining about the idea of required health insurance.

We could use the money we would save to include everybody and improve coverage for those who now have it. That is why there is a need. The article I linked in my last reply to you proves this is feasible.

Socialized healthcare is feasible, but I don't think it's realistic to expect government to make it happen.

Moreover, I would not withhold my vote on a candidate just because (s)he supports improving the healthcare crisis by governing the existing health care industry. That's what this is about. If someone seriously has a chance of socializing healthcare, I'm all for it, but I am saying that there are simpler solutions that are more likely to be pursued.

Edit: There's no guarantee government healthcare would be any more efficient than highly regulated private healthcare.

And I am not alone in harboring this sentiment. According to a recent Rasmussen Reports survey, Forty-four percent (44%) of American adults say that health care services should be made available for free to all Americans. It found that 39% disagree and 17% are not sure.

Regardless, you can not dismiss an argument in favor of single-payer UHC by claiming it is unlikely that it will ever come about. Single-payer poses a threat to the stakeholders in the present system, and therefore is opposed by interests vested in the status quo. But our discussion should focus on which of the policy alternatives best serves the public interest.

This is not all about "...improving the healthcare crisis by governing the existing health care industry." That is part, but not all, of the debate. I'm going to guess that by this you mean the existing health care insurance industry. Am I correct? This is an important distinction because I am certainly not endorsing any change in the way doctors and hospitals operate today, except for a significant reduction in their overhead costs that are currently brought about by interaction with private healthcare insurance providers.

Therefore it is misleading to claim that there's no gurantee "government healthcare" would be more efficient than "private healthcare". With single-payer, just as with Medicare Parts A & B today, healthcare would be very much in the private sector. The government would just pay the bills.

And there is a wealth of evidence that indicates single-payer UHC would be much more efficient. Please consider the following graphic that shows Canada is spending half as much per capita as we are. Everybody there is covered. Their infant mortality rate is lower and their life expectancy is higher.



Since you seem unconvinced by the resource I previously supplied, here is a link to a website that provides results from a wealth of studies which all confirm huge saviings would be realized by changing to a single payer system.

France is ranked by the World Health Organization as having the best health care system in the world. They operate on a single-payer format. Hospitals and other health care providers are largely privately run, but the government negotiates on behalf of its citizens the prices for prescription drugs and medical procedures. Canada is only ranked 30th. The US is ranked 37th.

But then again France has survived right winger after right winger Presidents for decades now.

They protested in Paris when he tried to push through a labor law making it easier to fire younger workers who are under thirty. The official reason was that it would help lower unemployment rates for the under 30s by making them more attractive to hire.

What did the left in France do? They protested, loudly. Sarkozy was under so much fire he eventually retreated and abandoned the bill.

However, neoliberalism is on the march. The Netherlands privatized their health insurance program several years ago. The costs of health care have, predictably, started to rise.

Next time I feel like preaching the a sermon on the subject I'll probably mention France's healthcare system, but I doubt if I'll completely stop pointing to Canada's as an example.

Thank you.

BUt if someone totals my car, I continue to go on living.

If someone totals ME (Such as the petrochemical companies that pollute almost every inch of the planet) I need health insurance. I need a working health care system.

And I can get car insurance simply by being a good person and driving properly and putting a little bit aside of my paycheck every month.

I cannot get health insurance because of pre-existing conditions. Even when I could afford $ 700 a month, I couldn't find a single insurer out there willing to take me.

and the great depression occurred. The Democratic party does not destroy industries. The industries apear quite capable of destroying themselves and the middle class and the poor even as far back as 1929.

FDR and the Democratic party saved capitalism. FDR and the Democratic saved the Banking industry and the stock market.

Today's health insurance industry appears quite capable of destroying the middle class. I'm seeing it right now. A friend of mine had to sell his home because he had cancer. He lost a lot of weight and never gained it back and still needs expensive treatment that meant that he could not afford to keep his home. He sold it in July 2007. He now waits in another state with a relative waiting while his name apears on a waiting list for inexpensive housing.

You DLC and corporatists and Hillary supporters would just ignore this problem.


"Hey Hey Hey DLC how many middle class homeowners have lost their homes today?"

So just as the importance of an industry what about the middle class that appears to get destroyed in 2007 because Hillary's supporters want the system to still get run by health insurance companies where you still have premiums, deductibles, copays which many middle class people might not afford if they get cancer or another devastating disease that costs them a lot of money over a long period of time.

The Health insurance industry has helped companies like Century 21 and Coldwell banker, and other real estate brokers, etc. with their insistance that the system stay as it appears now. I imagine the health insurance companies have helped morticians, coroners, funeral directors and cemeteries as well, financially.

It has destroyed all of the great industries with its policies. The insurance industry is what you want to protect? steel is gone. manufacturing is gone. the only healthy food we can get is if we buy directly from a farmer or at a farmer's market. education is in shambles.

okaaay . . . . .


And who told you that the government can't play a hand in destroying an industry? What do you think prohibition was? Think there's no alcohol industry in this country? How about the most important industry this nation had at its founding -- the slave trade . . . . don't see those companies or that industry around these days, do you?

Insurance companies should have NO place in universal, single payer health care. THEY are the reason for the problems in our system. I don't want bean counters running our health care system. Apparently you missed how they almost always deny every claim before they finally pay (If they pay at all) while at the same time making a shitload of money out of skyrocketing premiums.

do you know of 100,000's of jobs avialible that we could give to the people you just put out of work?

However, they would (unfortunately) survive by offering high end packages to rich customers. I'll take the welfare of families and children, and the health of the nation before greedy insurance companies.

Maybe you should start another party?

Just a suggestion.

And I decide who can be in it. Got it?

I didn't know you were here! I was just filling in. Sorry!

Yes, you decide. Of course that goes without saying.

The OP didn't seem to know that is all I was pointing out.

Just like medicare part d I suspect that if we give the private sector a contract they will soon start cutting costs the way insurance companies always do. Sorry you cant' have that surgery ,it's not covered.

I don't care when I need medical care whether it is government run or private ,but corporation are no longer trustworthy. I agree with you that these are predatory capitalists.If you where going to start a business,you would think of an idea that would provide a neccessary product or service. Monopolies don't have to provide value because there is no competition, and they don't .just look at your cellphone. Did you want it locked in to one service provider? I'll bet it took extra work to do that but added no value to you.

look here
www.madeinchina.com
look at the thousands of products for sale.All these products represent not just money leaving the country but infrastructure and skilled labor. In this country the services sector is one of the biggest. What value does that provide really? It creates nothing.

If you have not, do so.:hi:

If reading any of it makes me better off. The only thing left in the middle of the road are armadillos and yellow lines.

Any ideas on how to do that?

Not a privatized solution that subsidizes the insurance corporations. The DLC front-runners are not offering "universal health care" in the sense most Democrats mean by that term. Instead, they are offering Republicanized schemes to keep the private insurance based model afloat.

We need real single-payer health care.