Pelosi Throws in The Towel
by buhdydharma
Mon Oct 01, 2007

Nancy Pelosi admits no legislation passed in the House will end the occupation because the Republican minority in the Senate will block it.
Bi-partisanship won't work.

Nancy Pelosi admits re-deployment is the only answer, but has stopped trying to achieve it.
She has stopped trying to send bills to the Presidents desk.

Nancy Pelosi admits she can defund the occupation. But she won't.

Nancy Pelosi has given up on ending the Iraq War.

...............

The choice is this Speaker Pelosi:

You can do EVERYTHING you can to end this war and TRULY hold Bush accountable....or you can throw in the towel.

You can tell Bush and America that YOU will not continue the war....by not funding it.

You can do EVERYTHING you can to hold Bush accountable for lying us into war.....by Impeaching him and Cheney.

Or you can throw in the towel.

Apparently you have made your choice.

Watch the video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZL8-XQsgiA read the transcript,http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0709/30/le.01.html

The Dems have given up.

Opposing Bush is now off the table.

Can we Yell Loud enough to put it back on?

Or should we just accept years and years of more war?

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/1/123239/275

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point this out, people will continue to defend them

By the way Nancy, you also just lost the majority...

Mark my words

:rofl:

and you don't get more liberal than THAT! She's also going out of her way to antagonize her constituents, along with the rest of the grassroots Democrats. It's entirely possible that she could LOSE to Cindy Sheehan!

Got any poll numbers/demographics/district breakdowns to back that up?

Legitimately curious as to how "entirely possible" translates into nose-counts, district canvasses, cash on hand, fundraising infrastructure, name recognition, downtown turnout expectations, neighborhood-by-neighborhood loyalty analyses, suburban turnout expectations, volunteer support, and oh, I dunno, basically what you're basing that on besides crossed fingers.

Cindy is a dear friend. I know the answers to all those questions. I just kinda want to see if you do.

:)

Politics generally sucks, because it's the place where "Please O Please" and "Because I Say So" go to die alone, unless the math is there as backup.

Cindy rules. Numbers, however, rule more.

So...

Also, I'm not in her district myself or even in the area--I'm in SoCal. That was just a secondhand general impression based upon what some of the SF people here on DU have said. I'd love to have more specific information myself.

it proves how far this country has sunk into accepting
the interests of corporations and power wielders over
those of voters and people who need representing.

Pelosi and almost every single member of the Senate
and Congress represent money interests and the corporofascist
plutocracy. Period.

I doubt very much Sheehan can unseat Pelosi in that climate.
Remove the tampering and hampering and she may have a chance. but this is the real world we're talking about, nothing to do with honest vote counting or honest anything it seems. the people who want the wars will always win.

Really?

Wow.

Can you do me a favor and say that again?

Just one more time?

That was kind of amazing.

:crazy:

to get her white gloves soiled.
but there certainly are moneyed powerful out there that would like her to keep her position, seeing as she supports the Iraq war and much of what bush wants.

In fact, she blames the Democrats for slavery, all the wars in past 100 years and on top of that, she has a right-wing position on taxes.

In all honesty, I wasn't really going to argue with you when you said "Sheehan isn't a liberal" (although I'm not 100% sure I disagree with you), but your explanation for why she is not a liberal does not make sense.

Especially in a district where they have the Speaker...

but majorities that are perceived, that is the correct workd PERCEIVED to be weak or innefectual, tend to loose.

This House Majority leader is weak, not perceived to be, but she is.

But don't let history be your teacher

'thing about those who don't learn from history... are condemened to repeat it

now she is actually aiding and abetting the WH on Iraq thwarting Obey's plan.....

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQ6MiELLp8fFhwGT9y-Ri-p6o6QwD8S198DG1

Democrats Propose Tax Surcharge for War

By ANDREW TAYLOR – 1 hour ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Three senior House Democrats proposed an income tax surcharge Tuesday to finance the approximately $150 billion annual cost of operations in Iraq, saying it is unfair to pass the cost of the war on to future generations.

The plan, unveiled by Reps. David Obey, D-Wis., John Murtha, D-Pa., and Jim McGovern, D-Mass., would require low- and middle-income taxpayers to add 2 percent to their tax bill. Wealthier people would add a 12 to 15 percent surcharge, Obey said.

Top Democrats immediately shot down the idea and Republicans roasted Democrats for linking funding for U.S. troops overseas with tax increases.

"Just as I have opposed the war from the outset, I am ... opposed to a war surtax," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

:grr:

yah sure, Nancy.
cheap words. you have some power to oppose and you have decided not to use it.
You now have part ownership of the travesties the Repugs have assaulted far too many with.

The likelihood is actually the exact opposite, oddly enough.

22 GOP Senators have to run with Bush stapled to their foreheads, + Idaho + Virginia with the Craig mess and the Warner retirement. The GOP will hold probably hold onto that Idaho seat (but the amazing fact that Conrad Burns lost in Mon-freakin'-tana last November means the usual gravity isn't a constant anymore).

But the GOP stands a damned good chance of losing Virginia to Democratic former governor Mark Warner, Virginia's most popular politician by double digit margins according to every poll available; I was betting on him becoming the dark-horse out-of-nowhere suprise candidate in the '08 prez race, or at least a short-list VP candidate if the Dems were considering a Southern strategy, but then he chose not to run. Odds are very good that Warner will grab that seat, and that we'll have a Democratic Senator from Virginia in the caucus for the first time since the 1960s. Add to all that Hagel's soon-to-be-open seat in Nebraska, which the GOP will absolutely have to make a play for.

22 seats to defend, all held by Senators who have to run on their long-standing yet suddenly-rancid record of supporting all things Bush since 2002. A bunch of them are going to get beat, and the RNC will have to spend it's entire ass off trying to stave off that calamity, while also having to throw money into those unexpected races in Idaho, Nebraska and Virginia...a lot of bread, and not much butter to spread.

As bad as the Dem's record is, the GOP's is infinitely worse. We may have 65 or more Senators in our caucus come next January, and will probably pick up more House seats, and may even have a Dem in the Oval to boot.

Strange but probably true.

they won't be actual Democrats, just the newest group of politicians bought and paid for by corporations and lobbyists.

Though I'm a loyal Democrat, I have nothing but the greatest contempt for these people so willing to sell our party's platform and ideals for their own job security. I suspect things won't be any different under the "new" Democratic majority than it was under GOP control.

...political reality is not welcome here.

But keep it up, Lone Voice in the Wilderness.

too little,too late. The country is on the verge of starting another war in the Middle East.Who is elected in 08 does'nt make a damned bit of difference,by that time it will be unstoppable.In the near future the fear mongering will be in full swing,an incident or two will have happened,all that was learned from the Iraq fiasco will be put on the back burner and the White House Mafia will impose their will again on the American people.Trying to deal with a bunch of thugs like the Republican party is not the answer.The only answer is impeachment even if it brings the country to a standstill.Will impeachment proceedings be brought? Probably not because most Americans not only lack the will, but the courage.

...and 218 House votes, too.

Just sayin'. Before you go and denigrate the courage of 300 million people you've never met, you might work on a simple plurality in a room with 435 people in it. Half +1 will get you that courage, if you can get that 218.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's your courage on the line. See what you can do besides type, and good luck.

:toast:

I am talking of the US House... two very different animals

And it will be, throw the bums out... the house I will remind you stands for reelection every two years... 100% of it.

And in my view, she's about to cost that majority since the PERCEPTION out there is that she's weak and they are throwing in the towel.

Some of that perception, from what we have seen, is correct

being snippy isn't going to help these troops being killed everyday. oh, this is just sickening.

If you can't cook the food, quit the chef job. Cindy's ready. Appoint her.

Can't get 41 votes. Start 41 recalls until we have as many votes as are needed to finish.

Being organized in that morass we call a Congress certainly earns ones keep. But, being able to think and act outside the box -- priceless.

I've called her office, I've written to her, nothing is heard but I do it anyway.

Can't say if I've ever been more disappointed in a Democratic victory as I am with the way Pelosi lets us down each day she swings her mighty gavel. I weep for my country - we the people have no representation at all.

Until 2006 we heard "We can't do anything; we're the minority party."

Post 2006, "We can't do anything; we're not majority enough."

Good grief.

Doesn't fly when they spent 6 years letting the republicans run ramshod over us.

the minority party is doing. Yell, loud and long, but don't give up, don't throw in the towel. If nancy and crew care more about their own place in life than what they chose to do (represent us) then they should get out of the way and let someone with moxie (but not spunk) stand against the minority party.

and, furthermore, I don't even get a response.

I have never received a response to my many letters to Pelosi or my Arkansas representatives, Vic Snyder, Mark Pryor and Blanche Lincoln.

And yet, for every letter I've written to Al Gore's office (I do that weekly), I have received a response.

....and I wonder if she was raised in an alcoholic family system.

For clarification, read this wonderful blog entry: The Politics of Victimization.

http://www.mathewgross.com/node/336

Watch Dan Rather apologize for not getting his facts straight, humiliated before the eyes of America, voluntarily undermining his credibility and career of over thirty years. Observe Donna Brazille squirm as she is ridiculed by Bay Buchanan, and pronounced irrelevant and nearly non-existent. Listen as Donna and Nancy Pelosi and Senator Charles Schumer take to the airwaves saying that they have to go back to the drawing board and learn from their mistakes and try to be better, more likable, more appealing, have a stronger message, speak to morality. Watch them awkwardly quote the bible, trying to speak the new language of America. Surf the blogs, and read the comments of dismayed, discombobulated, confused individuals trying to figure out what they did wrong. Hear the cacophony of voices, crying out, “Why did they beat me?”

And then ask anyone who has ever worked in a domestic violence shelter if they have heard this before. They will tell you, every single day.
The answer is quite simple. They beat us because they are abusers. We can call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence.

As victims we can’t stop asking ourselves what we did wrong. We can’t seem to grasp that they will keep hitting us and beating us as long as we keep sticking around and asking ourselves what we are doing to deserve the beating.

Listen to George Bush say that the will of God excuses his behavior. Listen, as he refuses to take responsibility, or express remorse, or even once, admit a mistake. Watch him strut, and tell us that he will only work with those who agree with him, and that each of us is only allowed one question (soon, it will be none at all; abusers hit hard when questioned; the press corps can tell you that). See him surround himself with only those who pledge oaths of allegiance. Hear him tell us that if we will only listen and do as he says and agree with his every utterance, all will go well for us (it won’t; we will never be worthy).

And watch the Democratic Party leadership walk on eggshells, try to meet him, please him, wash the windows better, get out that spot, distance themselves from gays and civil rights. See them cry for the attention and affection and approval of the President and his followers. Watch us squirm. Watch us descend into a world of crazy-making, where logic does not work and the other side tells us we are nuts when we rely on facts. A world where, worst of all, we begin to believe we are crazy.
How to break free? Again, the answer is quite simple.

First, you must admit you are a victim. Then, you must declare the state of affairs unacceptable. Next, you must promise to protect yourself and everyone around you that is being victimized. You don’t do this by responding to their demands, or becoming more like them, or engaging in logical conversation, or trying to persuade them that you are right. You also don’t do this by going catatonic and resigned, by closing up your ears and eyes and covering your head and submitting to the blows, figuring its over faster and hurts less is you don’t resist and fight back. Instead, you walk away. You find other folks like yourself, 56 million of them, who are hurting, broken, and beating themselves up. You tell them what you’ve learned, and that you aren’t going to take it anymore. You stand tall, with 56 million people at your side and behind you, and you look right into the eyes of the abuser and you tell him to go to hell. Then you walk out the door, taking the kids and gays and minorities with you, and you start a new life. The new life is hard. But it’s better than the abuse.

I'm convinced that the Dems in Congress are more than happy to keep this war going in order to have the issue. They're going to be mighty surprised when Bush declares victory and pulls out next September, thus sewing up Rethug victories in Congress and the White House.

Been about securing the electorate so as to position a DLC victory in the White House in 2008.

There is a woman named Hillary Rodham Clinton who is believed by the DLC to be their best chance at holding down the fort from 2008 to 2016. They also believe that having the war in progress so that it can be labelled GWb's war is the winning strategy to their victory.

The Democratic party machinery in California is DLC. It has vast power, and determines whether you yourself can run for school board or dog catcher should you decide to get involved locally.

...they are usually wrong.

They put this charisma-less creature in the race against Arnold Schwartzenegger and ignored the fact that voters from both parties liked Steve Westly (if I have his name right)

At that point, it certainly looked like the horse race was rigged and that someone made big bucks off their decision.

I've never believed that the US had any right to invade and subsequently occupy Iraq after all these years.

I vote. That’s why I am not an active victim. But I am because so many people do not examine their voting options, are not able or even bother to vote in the first place. They make me a victim as much as the GOP thieves rob our democracy.

The GOP agenda is to screw the people because we have the real power according to our Constitution. Only a few of us seem to be aware of their thoughts on that.

Our screw was guaranteed when the media (aka 4th estate) sold themselves out to corporate agendas and profits at all cost. God help the truth. They won’t touch that anymore if it might conflict with their dime.

I know, I'm singing to the choir. We need to start singing wherever we still can.

:hi:

It will be very interesting to see how many years U.S. troops remain in Iraq under a democratic party president. Of course, that's a pretty broad brush and I do understand the SOME dems in congress are committed to ending the war and not just wringing their hands while the centerpiece of the PNAC agenda rolls on unabated. But those dems are being marginalized by their own party. The party leadership, and likely the majority of dem members of congress, are just another flavor of the corporate war party.

I am so sick of this BS. I was SO hopeful when Nancy Pelosi became Speaker. She has disappointed me beyond words.

Pelosi is not the party, neither is Hillary. We need to kick this weak, corporate shit to the curb if we really want to start making a difference.

:thumbsup:

then organize boycotts of those companies you so hate and demand progressive legislation of them.

If not then you only appear to complain without doing anything about those companies that wield too much power over the legislation process.

:eyes:

Unless you are willing to set up your own little Amish style community - there is no way you can boycott. Grow your own food, and your own grain for bio mass fuel and spin the wool for your clothes - yeah RIGHT! If you are some kinda billionaire I guess you could do it. (But if you were some kinda billionaire then you could finance the re-buy of the companies that were once decent little mom and pop ventures)

Even little "decent" companies like Ben and Jerries have been merged into something else.

The huge GMO desiring Corporations like Novartis and Monsanto even deliberately set out to get as many "green" companies as they could - so as to further their agenda.

Hartz Mountain pet food got gobbled up by one of them and the first thing that they did was to destroy the heirloom seed bank that Hartz Mountain had developped over DECADES. That way it makes it much more likely that the only birdseed out there can be GMO.

to the curb, if he had more money for his campaign, Dennis would, he is corporations worst nightmare.

Dennis Kucinich simply cannot win the presidency in 2008. It's a sad fact that we all have to accept. We haven't done the groundwork necessary to convince enough people that he's the best choice.

Kucinich's message is too complex for most of the people in this country who have grown up under Reagan/Bush/Clinton. They take many many things for granted that we thought were radical conservatism back in the 70s. The idea that there's a higher purpose than being rich? That we all owe a debt to each other, and that the wealthy owe a higher debt to the rest of us? That government can be a force for good? All of those were givens 30 years ago, but now people are laughed off the podium for saying it.

We need to reboot Democracy first, and that starts locally. Until then, you'll never see a Kucinich or anyone close to him in the White House.

We need to throw out the ENABLERS!

yes, he's proven spectacular at coalition building, how many pieces of his legislation have passed?...:sarcasm:

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to die in this war to steal Iraq's natural resources.

Nancy, along with Hillary and Diane Feinstein do need to refrain from further enabling those white wealthy males who are making a mint off of the bodies of innocent Iraqis and our young women and men who were at the least, HOPING to get an education and/or an economical break from joining the military.

Instead they have become cannon fodder.

Gheeze Louise!! :crazy:

it is, some, maybe many, will view it as such. Whatever, she isn't helping women.....I had such high hopes for her in the office of the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives...powerful position turned into mush.

Up until last year, it was men in charge and mostly men that voted for the invasion of Iraq.

House Speaker Barbara Lee, anybody?

ROFL!!!

"step aside and let a strong man do the job"

What an asisine sexist remark.:thumbsdown:

Votes are more important than lives.

:rofl:

I seem to recall a LOT of people here have bent over backwards making excuses for her until it's just reached the point that there were no more excuses to make.

Nancy haters....hey,maybe she earned it.:shrug:

She said she would do EVERYTHING in her power to bring our troops home; she lied.

a LIAR HATER.

Hell no!

Do you mean like Joe Lieberman, who thinks that bi-partiasanship is when you help with the cover-up of Bush's crimes.

Bi-partisanship? No way!

Give me one example in the last six years where bi-partisanship was a good idea! Just one example!

Bi-partisan today, the "new boss" tomorrow.
"Won't Get Fooled Again" This song just keeps telling the truth.

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

(chorus)

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the foe, that' all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

(chorus)

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie

There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

(chorus)

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

Chorus:
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

We have that. On their issues our party votes with them. On our issues, their party marches lockstep in solidarity and votes everything down. This bipartisan thing is working out very well.

don't want to let Republicans monkey wrench legislation. Shame on them.

You keep on thinking Big Z, it's whut yer good at.

nm

I need a bowing emoticon...short and to the point! :rofl:

Now how do I capture that little guy for future use? :rofl:

and then save it in your picture file.

Look at the top of the file box that pops up.
If it doesn't say 'pictures' then use the down arrow button
and find your picture file and click on it. Then save the pic.

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:eyes:

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You're really out of line to use Dr. King's image in posts that bash progressives and peace activists.

Thank you for saying that.

over and over again that they don't believe in it?

My god son, you really need to enlist...

I once liked Pelosi. But, her continued surrender to the Blue Dogs and republicans has evaporated any respect that I once held.

- We won the war.

- Saddam and his vile sons are dead.

- The Iraqi people have "freely" elected a new democratic government and constitution.

- Instead of the anti-American Baathist party in power, there is now the pro-American al Maliki administration.

- After a long trial, the new Iraqi justice system sentenced their former dictator and his top officers to death.

- The Iraqi military is now a U.S. ally, and is helping us hunt down insurgent fighters including al Qaeda terrorists (like al Zarqawi) throughout the country.

- Similar to Afghanistan, we won the war.

- AND NOW WE MUST BEGIN REDEPLOYING OUR BRAVE HEROES OUT OF HARM'S WAY AND BACK HOME TO BE SUPPORTED.

Posted by liberalsoldier5

This was posted as a suggestion to what Dems in Congress could declare. I say it is what Busholini just might announce after the Iraqi's give 80% of their Oil Revenues to US & Brit Oil Corps. There would be a major US Troop Deployment but the Mercs would remain.

Too bad Nancy won't listen!

WHY?!



WHY CAN'T SHE?!

This is WHY!

....because green is for Martha's like Nancy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid's_Tale#Socially_Accepted_and_Promoted_Categories_of_Women_in_Gilead">Marthas are older infertile women whose compliant nature and domestic skills recommend them to a life of domestic servitude in the houses of the elite. Marthas dress in green smocks.

- Compliant, made for servitude in the houses of the elites. It all seems more appropos to me....

:dem:

When we needed a pit bull, we got a miniature poodle.

When we needed to seize control of our colors, she waved the white flag.

When we needed momentum, she froze up in the middle of the road.

Ideologically, the Democrats are fine. Politically, they are a shambles.

Pray tell, who will represent US?

view.

We have had enough of her setting us back a century for women.

:thumbsdown:

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sugar must be low because I've sure been hot to jump in with the sarcastic remarks. Really -- I'm sorry and thanks for pointing it out to me.

:banghead:

I'd better be VERY careful from now on lest I keep attacking people undeservedly.

:blush:

:toast:

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Well that's rich.

Thank you for that suggestion. For now I will stay.

Don't pass any funding bill or keep sending the same funding bill with conditions to Bush's desk. It is really quite simple. The answer to ending the war is to stop funding the war. We have been telling you that since this Congress was seated. You have refused to listen. You have no strategy that ends the war, we have one that will do just that.

Don't send any appropriations bill at all until Bush agrees in advance to funding troop withdrawal only. Dems have what Bush wants not the other way around. Make it that the republicans can't get enough votes to continue funding the war...not the other way around. Don't give Bush anything.
Stop funding the war.

whose progressive cred has been steadily eroded -- for the last year and a half that she's not met with us, aka, her constituents.

:silly:

Each and every day we continue to occupy Iraq, we continue to be a nation of cowards and outlaws.

Stop further legislation until they squeal.

Get a spine!

Why even bother working with the guy?

Let's let HIM get the blame for things falling apart.

No good comes from even trying to compromise with the Dubster. For them, compromise just means the Dems do what the GOP wants, like it always was with your boys in the Nineties. Republicans never meet US halfway.

That was the result of the AFL-CIO and every union in this country building up popular support at the grass-roots level for a minimum wage increase.
The Republicans didn't compromise on that as much as they caved in order to save their jobs.
"It was the activists, stupid" to paraphrase Carville.

The real result of "compromise" was things like a "welfare reform" bill that used right-wing talk radio lies about the alleged immorality and laziness of the poor as the basis of national legislation. Our "Democratic" president signed it with only trivial, cosmetic changes, and didn't gain a single vote for abandoning the poor.

Convictions and enthusiasm can win. Grass-roots energy can win. Big donor politics, well...nah, not really...

then the minimum wage bill was attached to the Iraq funding bill.

Here is a link for the compromise bill:

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR02206:@@@D&summ2=m&|TOM:/bss/d110query.html|

Democrats got the increased minimum wage and Bush got some tax cuts and funding for the war in Iraq.

Still, labor pressure had a lot to do with getting the increases through in both cases. The GOP know they'll be fighting to hang onto everything they've still got in Congress that year, and workers can make the difference in whether they survive or not. If nothing else, grass-roots pressure was crucial even to get the GOP to accept THIS deal.

And more funding for the slaughter in Iraq is hardly an acceptable tradeoff.

...er, you DO agree that there's no good reason to keep that war going, dontcha Freddie?

If not, then the GOP Game Plan of dividing us has come true....George Washington went through trying times...at one point, the Continental Congress wanted to fire his ass...things were dismal in those Rev Daze....but in the end...Gorgie Boy came through with flying colors....

Them Pubs are vicious and conniving...stay together and we win

Divided we lose....

Well, what do we do then - throw in our towels too? I don't think so.

We need to throw out Madame and Mouse and go for strong leaders who can get the job done!

It won't take much...all we have to do is DEMAND STRONGER LEADERS....and to FILTER OUT those DINOs who infiltrated our Party...

Remember. those PUBs are cunning and vicious...they already have infiltrated some of their boys...

Remember Carl Sheeler?? From R.I....wanted to be a US SENATOR? He was a Pub Posing as a DEM...Thank God he was so stupid he lost to Whitehouse....who went on to be Senator and is doing quite well....the point is, the Pubs know they taking gas...so what do they do?...if ya can't lick um...join um....hence a bunch of DINOs in the Party....

The DEM Party is far from perfect...its up to us citizens to correct the many f/u's and focus on the BIG PICTURE of staying, somehow, together until we can effect a change...a GOOD CHANGE....

OK with me. Is Red running? Which is the Red Party?

and considering what they've done, and still call themselves "democrats", maybe it is time for our party to die.

Quit asking us to sacrifice morals and lives for your benefit.

Bushco and the 'Pugs knew they could do what they wanted when Pelosi took defunding the war and impeachment off the table.

These two epitomize the fightless Democrats, getting ass-kicked since 1980. What a party we have.

CNN

September 30, 2007





















Ms. Pelosi, all of this "legislation" you are touting HAS NEITHER STOPPED THIS OCCUPATION NOR BROUGHT OUR TROOPS HOME FROM IRAQ. It is hollow. It is meaningless to anxiety-ridden and grieving families, both here in America and in Iraq and Afghanistan.


"Legislation" is not going to affect this tyrannical executive.



There is only one way to get his attention.


To put it very plainly:


You are the majority in the US House of Representatives.


Impeach both Bush and Cheney IMMEDIATELY.


Use this power that We The People gave you nearly one year ago.

DO IT NOW.

"I've always said that impeachment is off the table. This is President Bush's war. It's Vice President Cheney's war and now it's become the war of the Republicans in Congress."

No, it's not just Bush's war. It's also Congress' war because they continue to FUND IT! This was not what the American people elected the Dems to do. We expected a bit more spine, a little less cowardliness.

Nancy Pelosi : "I've always said that impeachment is off the table. This is President Bush's war. It's Vice President Cheney's war and now it's become the war of the Republicans in Congress."

Moochy: Noone is saying it's your war, or the democrat's war, least of all your base. This is such a ham handed attempt to re-frame a non-attack. Sort of a fig leaf to cover doing nothing substantial to end the war.

"BLITZER: But you could in the House of Representatives use your power of the purse, the money, to stop funding the war if you really wanted to.

PELOSI: I wish the speaker had all the power you just describe. I certainly could do that. That doesn't bar the minority from bringing up a funding resolution. They have their parliamentary prerogative as well."

COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT, NANCY.

With a majority we can EASILY prevent any funding FOR the war. If the house does not fund it then it has to end.
Yes, everything else might grind to a halt for a few weeks, too, but ending the war must be the first and highest priority.

Nancy, you're smart, you're sweet, you've got a good heart and class but YOU'RE FUCKING WRONG if you say house Democrats cannot defund the war.

It's a sad day when so many are so willing to let our freedoms be stolen. Things will have to get a lot worse before the lazy Americans will wake up to this tyranny. Let's hope it isn't too late or what happened in Burma (Miramar) will happen here.

I am especially saddened by the politicians that apparently value their parking place more than our freedoms. For America's sake, take a chance, make a stand, stand up for freedom. If you lose you job, so be it, but you would have taken a stand.

Our forefathers must be crying at the lack of spirit for freedom.

Every day Pelosi. Aren't their lives worth trying what you are refusing to even try. Is it so easy to just accept their deaths blaming it on the senate republicans and giving up by your insanity (insanity= doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results like sending bills the senate won't even let get to the president's desk for him to veto). Send no bill, give no funding. Funding only for withdrawal. This you CAN do. Aren't their lives worth trying. How do you sleep at night knowing you are allowing Bush to continue to get them killed?

Even Pelosi's last seconds!

Before posting, I read the thread and noted the number of demands that Nancy Pelosi step aside and let some nebulous "real" strong democrat take over for her.

I would pose a question--to wit:
Just whom do we have, politically well positioned, who can take over for her? Is there anyone in the chain who is no worse than she?

There's obvious reason to be more than just passing angry, but to what pragmatic purpose can it be put? Solutions, anyone?

In fact, I think there's a GOP seat opening somewhere in CA -- isn't there???

And I can't help but agree with her.

By running as an independent, she can kick Pelosi in the ass all the way up to November. If she ran as a Dem, Pelosi would win the primary without even having to acknowledge that Cindy exists.

But . . .. I had thought there was a GOP seat open -- a guy is bailing due to some scandal --
Cindy might have been able to go all the way on this seat -- and actually get elected --
WHILE keeping on Pelosi's tail --

And where would you want to live -- downtown San Francisco or some podunk McEnclave that elects Republicans?

this would be re running as independent --
I thought I heard that, though I'm not sure why????

Not exactly an upgrade, IMHO, but it's at least tolerable.

departing . . . .

The news of it was right about the time Cindy was talking about having to move --

I'll keep an eye out for it ---

If it was a real opportunity for Cindy, I'm sure she would have been made aware of it --

Pelosi and there's no way they're going to allow another Democrat to compete against her. It was the Democratic Party that locked her out which is why she went 3rd party. I'm not sure what your comment about the GOP seat was about. As far as I know she's never been a Republican.

And it looks like a DLC "machine" ---

The California seat I am talking about was in Republican hands --
the guy was bailing due to some scandal.
Presumably, a Democrat could successfully challenge for this seat --

AND, she could keep calling out Pelosi -- they would NOT be running for the same seat --!!!
AND, Cindy might end up with a seat in the House ....? Why not?

AND, my guess is that if there is this CA open seat that the "machine" wouldn't dare try to keep her from gaining it because I think every anti-war supporter is going to be closely watching Cindy Sheehan and what's going on -- aren't we???

...that blocks any attempt to fund the occupation.

dweebs and keyboard warriors who couldn't get in the door of Congress if their mothers were holding it open.

And the crybabies here are falling for it.

Anybody kow what it costs to stop a war? Or how long it takes?

I didn't think so.

Anybody know how difficult it is to impeach?

Didn't think so there, either.

Congress generally sucks and is driven by craven assholes who only care about winning the next election. But, although that's the way it's always been, and always will be, this constant whining and pissing in the wind accomplishes nothing.

And, again, I ask someone doing all this complaining to give me just ONE example of a Congress, or a Speaker, at any time in our history, successfully standing up to a President. Shouldn't be a problem-- I'm sure history is rife with them if Pelosi is such an unusually pathetic loser. Must be hundreds of them. Maybe thousands. (Nixon is too easy, and it took a really long time anyway.)

Didn't think so.

I already vote that, so the more the merrier :evilgrin:

woman just can' t do it. Or rather won't.

Times were never as bad. You need someone else. And before all you need to get rid ot the DLC...

-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to the Hague!

during WWI, Shay's Rebellion, the Civil War, the Depression, WWII...

Really, now. Just a bit of historical perspective would be nice.

not an American and my perspective is different. I say it again: Times were never as bad.

-------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

On July 24, 1974, the Court unanimously ruled that Nixon had to surrender the tapes.

On Saturday, July 27, the House Judiciary Committee approved its first article of impeachment
charging President Nixon with obstruction of justice. Six of the Committee's 17 Republicans
joined all 21 Democrats in voting for the article. The following Monday the Committee approved
its second article charging Nixon with abuse of power. The next day, the third and final article,
contempt of Congress, was approved.

Articles of Impeachment: Approved by a vote of 27-11 by the House Judiciary Committee on Saturday, July 27, 1974.)

Article 2: Abuse of Power. Approved 28-10 by the House Judiciary Committee on Monday, July 29, 1974.)

Article 3: Contempt of Congress. (Approved 21-17 by the House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday, July 30, 1974.)

Consequences:

On Friday, August 9, Nixon resigned the presidency and avoided the likely prospect
of losing the impeachment vote in the full House and a subsequent trial in the Senate.

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/nixon.htm

Cambodia, how much Kissinger bullshit...

And it took a Supreme Court ruling to set the stage. Think we'll get one of those now?

You were factually wrong.

Your handle, TreasonousBastard, is very, very apropos.

History. It's your friend.

Two weeks?

Heh. And the Allies took Berlin in a day.

After the hard part was over, of course...

Wow.

===

1964 - U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War officially begins.

Daniel Ellsberg begins work at The Pentagon.

Ellsberg acquires the Pentagon Papers.

Ellsberg gives copies to Neil Sheehan.

June 13, 1971: The New York Times begins to publish them. The Washington Post soon follows. Richard Nixon reacts with outrage.

September 9, 1971: The "White House Plumbers" burglarize the office of Ellsberg's psychiatrist, seeking damaging information.

June 17, 1972: The plumbers are arrested at 2:30 a.m. in process of burglarizing (planting surveillance bugs in) the Democratic National Committee offices at the Watergate Hotel.

May 17, 1973 : The Senate Watergate Committee begins its nationally televised hearings.

May 19, 1973: Independent special prosecutor Archibald Cox appointed to oversee investigation into possible presidential impropriety.

June 3, 1973: John Dean tells Watergate investigators that he has discussed the cover-up with Nixon at least 35 times.

July 13, 1973: Alexander Butterfield, former presidential appointments secretary, reveals that all conversations and telephone calls in Nixon’s office have been taped since 1971.

July 18, 1973: Nixon orders White House taping systems disconnected.

July 23, 1973: Nixon refuses to turn over presidential tapings to Senate Watergate Committee or the special prosecutor

October 20, 1973: "Saturday Night Massacre" - Nixon fires special prosecutor Cox and others.
U.S. Supreme Court issues its ruling in New York Times Co. v. United States supporting the free press and limiting prior restraint.

April 30, 1974: White House releases edited transcripts of the Nixon tapes, but the House Judiciary Committee insists the actual tapes must be turned over.

June 15, 1974: Woodward and Bernstein's book All the President's Men is published by Simon & Schuster (ISBN 0-671-21781-X).

Congress moves to impeach Nixon.

July 27 to July 30, 1974: House Judiciary Committee passes articles of Impeachment.

Early August 1974: A previously unknown tape from June 23, 1972 (recorded a few days after the break-in) documents Nixon and Haldeman formulating a plan to block investigations.

Key Republican Senators tell Nixon that enough votes exists to convict him.

August 9, 1974: Nixon resigns presidency. Gerald Ford becomes President.

September 8, 1974: President Ford ends investigations by granting Nixon a pardon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_timeline

June 1971 to August/September 1974...two weeks.

Mm.

Tip O'Neill.

(i'm on your side, but you asked)

did he ever get any of his pet programs (I think children's health care was one) past Reagan? Or even on the floor?

Did he ever stop Reagan from any of the White House grand designs? Reagan complained about him all the time, but I don't remember any major initiatives being stopped.

On the other side, Gingrich gave us that "Contract," closed down the government and started the wheels turning for Clinton's impeachment. How'd all that work out?

Nope, I still say anyone who thinks the Speaker can wave a magic wand over a slim majority and make everything OK is dreaming.

Well, read for yourself.

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/1209.html

:)

Tip kinda ruled.

I still say anyone who thinks the Speaker can wave a magic wand over a slim majority and make everything OK is dreaming.

:toast:

kind of make my point:

"When President Reagan persuaded Congress to curtail many of Mr. O'Neill's favorite social programs, the Speaker lamented that the Democrats had been too successful at their work. He said the Democratic programs had created a broad middle class whose members had forgotten the many benefits they had received from government -- in education and housing, for example -- and wanted to pull up the ladder behind them."

"Mr. O'Neill never shied from wielding power, although he frequently lamented that the power of the Speaker had declined since the days of Sam Rayburn, the Texas Democrat whose word became law during his 17 years in the post, ending in 1961. That was when a Speaker could get binding commitments from committee chairmen; it was before the diffusion of power that Mr. O'Neill himself worked to bring about."

O'Neill's one of the good guys in my book, but I don't see him going down in history as a great Speaker. Given the present realities, I don't see the Speaker as being that much of a powerful force any time son.

Don't want to misquite Kucinich -- and I read it rather quickly.

We got troops there quickly -- we can bring them out quickly.

Damm, I think Nam was cleared in less than a week?
Not that we want to imitate that one!!!

could be impeached. And a Supreme Court decision. I'm not arguing that Shrub isn't as bad as Nixon, I think he's infinitely worse, just that the present circumstances make an impeachment problematic. I'd have to look stuff up, but methinks the timeline for Clinton's impeachment may have been shorter. Depends on whether you start with the initial Whitewater investigation or the blue dress.

As far as getting out of Iraq goes, everyone I've heard who seems to know about moving troops around says it will take close to a year for a proper evacuation. We didn't just show up one day-- there were months of preparations and since we've been there massive amounts of equipment and material has been moved in.

130,000 uniforms, another 100,000 or so mercenaries and other civilian employees of the military, a pile more civilians working administrative and advisory jobs in Baghdad... And don't forget trusted Iraqis who could be killed in the coming purges when we leave.

So, we got what, up to half a million, with half of them households, will have to be evacuated. And even if we only take the weapons we don't dare leave there...

Ain't gonna happen in a matter of weeks no matter how long Dennis or anyone else dreams.

Nixon of course was a criminal -- like Bush --

With a permanent war thrown in --

And things will get worse if we don't impeach him -- and Cheney ---

Wear pads. It can get rough under the bus.

in which Aphrodite, who as we all know is the goddess of love and beauty, was married to Haephaestos the god of the forge. Due to an unfortunate accident in his youth, Haephaestos had a game leg which even his supernatural gifts could not heal, so that he walked with a limp forever afterward.

Maybe for that reason or maybe just because she's naturally oversexed, Aphrodite developed a bad case of the hots for Ares aka Mars, the god of war, who after all is quite a hunk despite his obvious negatives in other areas. So Aphrodite and Ares started getting it on and somehow Haephaestos her husband found out about it.

To pay them back for cheating on him, Haephaestos forged a steel net so fine it was invisible and hung it over Aphrodite's bed and then hid out to wait for just the right moment. He didn't have to wait long. When Ares and Aphrodite were otherwise engaged and of course too preoccupied to be aware of the net or anything else, he lowered the net and pinned them to bed, caught right in the act.

The rest of the population of Mount Olympus all came to witness it and have a big laugh at their expense. A patriarchal gloss says that only the male gods showed up, but the other goddesses stayed away out of modesty. Personally, I think they couldn't bear to see one of their own publicly humiliated and I'm not sure I believe that part of the story anyway.

But this is 21st century America and times have changed to some degree...but not nearly enough, apparently.

Pretty embarrassing, isn't it...ya two-timing bitch! Except it's not the least bit funny and I am NOT laughing!

Simply tie an amendment ordering troops out of Iraq into the war funding bill. If the Republicans block it then they don't have funding for the war, simple as that. It is not the duty of the Democrats to pass every bill the Republicans want passed, we are in control we set the rules. If they don't like a bill that forces the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, well then they won't get any bill at all and they won't be able to fund their illegal occupation any longer.

Really pleased with herself by explaining how she's done all she could do, it's the republicans fault, it's Bush's fault, there is nothing else we can do.

Why doesn't Blitzer call her on her bullshit. You could impeach...you could stop funding the war. Thanks for trying everything else...Now we've tried it your way with no results at all...time to do what we elected you to do. Stop telling us what you can't do and start listening to what you can do.

Realize you can do 2 things at once 1) cut the funding and 2) start impeaching Cheney. She will not even discuss it. "I have said impeachment is off the table", who died and made you king? You are complicit in continuing this war...you are complicit in all the corruption and the mass murder of thousands of Iranians if Bush attacks Iran, by your own stubborn refusal to do what is necessary to stop Bush.
You've turned into quite the loser and we all have to suffer from your cowardice and stubbornness. You are just like Bush now, only you are acting "helpless".
If I could think of anyway to be rid of the likes of you I would do it in a heartbeat. I have lost all respect for you because you have closed your ears and mind to those who voted for you. No wonder you don't have townhall meetings anymore. Watching you on video points out your authoritarian stubborness deciding you know what's best over all objections.

No matter what else you do the only thing you will be remembered for is taking impeachment off the table during the most unpopular and corrupt administration in our nation's history. You single handedly did more to ensure continuation of the war and WH corruption than any other member of congress by refusing to do what is necessary to stop it. Stupid or stubborn...it's the same result...failure and defeat.

in her hand. She caved right after she was handed that gavel. She got into the ring with "lovely George", got a bloody lip & the Ref. threw in the towel. Now she's crying that she is helpless. America needs a real contender to do the job that she is to weak to do. I recommend Kucinich.

want to do. Just sit behindher podium and play with her gavel.

Defund the war and impeachkment, she has that option, do something and live with it.

Otherwise, if she does not want to lead, give the leadership position to someone else.

Not sure she's going to even do anything with the e-mail except send it to her SPAM folder.

has experience as a leader of the Congressional Black Caucus, 17 years in the House, was a leader in the Democratic Party in the Assembly in California, and voted against counting the electoral votes of Ohio in the 2004 election. She is not going to buckle under to Bush, you can be certain of that.

I'm sure there are other potential candidates. Strong Democrats with a backbone.

gawd, wouldn't the Repukes just go ballistic! :evilgrin:

They are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

End of story.

No end to the war.

she is going to stop annoying Bush with all those nasty bills that he has to Veto!

Is that what she's telling us --

What will should the reaction to that be -- ????

the Constitution. Shame on her.

Since Congress doesn't know what to do, they must be given directions on how to proceed.

Directions for how to do a Service in the catholic church is called the missal.

It's time to send one to Madame Speaker, KPete's is a good start:

You can do EVERYTHING you can to end this war and TRULY hold Bush accountable....or you can throw in the towel.

You can tell Bush and America that YOU will not continue the war....by not funding it.

You can do EVERYTHING you can to hold Bush accountable for lying us into war.....by Impeaching him and Cheney.

Or you can throw in the towel.

(and it may have been addressed above), but can't Pelosi & co. simply shut down all fund (like Newt did in the mid-90s)? Call the junta's bluff!

That won't remove Bush from office.

That requires Republican Senators willing to vote for a conviction.

And since the Congressional Dems have given up passing any legislation that matters, what does it actually hurt?

How about some dignity, people?

How about some OVARIES?

Right in a cow pie. The impeachment thing, your legacy! Now take a seat along with the rest of the robots.

Don't forget the bombing of Iran and worthless resolutions. WTF

What year is it?

step down, Betwenn Bush and new failed leaders, they're hurting us more then being of any help. shoot! let Pelosi kee p that freegin plane just pack it in and move on...

they are complicit.

It's not enough to say, it's the Repub's war. If they could do something about it and don't, it's theirs, too.

ive wanted to say that for years:sarcasm: ... if only Nancy P had some Intestinal fortitude... guys call it BALLS!:argh:

If the minority is able to block everything the Dems want to do then why is it the Dems were not able to block anything when they were the minority party?

Or rather more pointedly a lack of shared values in the Big fucking tent.

Instead of throwing in the towel, just resign as Speaker and let someone that honors their oath of office take over. GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY AND LET A REAL LEADER TAKE CONTROL OF THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS.

YOU, PELOSI, ARE INCOMPETENT and criminally derelict in your duties to your office and this country.

I was really hoping that she would grab that bull by the horn and crack a few ribs. I am not very keen on Margret Thatcher's politics, but that women took no ones shit and hand a spine of steel. Nancy needs to get some Thatcher nerve.

to alienate the base. It looks like they enjoy minority status where they can't be held accountable.

of the house and senate to someone else. Their records on standing up to the GOP are abysmal. If they keep going the way they're going they will hurt the Democrats chances in 2008. People already think the Democrats are weak and ineffective and Harry and Nancy only reinforce that perception. We need new leadership in both houses now!

a Democrat who actually supports and defends the constitution, who is willing to oppose the conservative corporate junta.

Rethug's believe they can do anything now because Nancy didn't put IMPEACHMENT on the table to show she meant business.. So WTF does she expect now!!

Put impeachment on the table and see how these rethugs act..

So what do we do ?

What do we do ..........:banghead:

I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya!

I wonder how Condi is handling the idea of not being the only person that Bush is sleeping with... *BUZZ* Oh! There I go again spreading that salacious rumor. It's off to Stephanie's penalty box for me!

Any measures will be blocked by the Republicans. And defunding the war might not end it, we know that Bush isn't giving up that easily. There really isn't any way to end this war without executive authority.

And doing nothing more than telling people "Elect a Democratic president" is the same thing as giving up 'til then.

We aren't impressing anyone with the phased political redeployment to the periphery strategy.

Has much changed for the will of the people since 2006? You might want to check this out Nancy:

Published on Tuesday, October 2, 2007 by The Washington Post
Most in Poll Want War Funding Cut
by Jon Cohen and Dan Balz

Most Americans oppose fully funding President Bush’s $190 billion request for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a sizable majority support an expansion of a children’s health insurance bill he has promised to veto, putting Bush and many congressional Republicans on the wrong side of public opinion on upcoming foreign and domestic policy battles.

The new Washington Post-ABC News poll also shows deep dissatisfaction with the president and with Congress. Bush’s approval rating stands at 33 percent, equal to his career low in Post-ABC polls. And just 29 percent approve of the job Congress is doing, its lowest approval rating in this poll since November 1995, when Republicans controlled both the House and Senate. It also represents a 14-point drop since Democrats took control in January.

Despite discontent with Congress this year, the public rates congressional Republicans (29 percent approve) lower than congressional Democrats (38 percent approve). When the parties are pitted directly against each other, the public broadly favors Democrats on Iraq, health care, the federal budget and the economy. Only on the issue of terrorism are Republicans at parity with Democrats.

Part of the displeasure with Congress stems from the stalemate between Democrats and the White House over Iraq policy. Most Americans do not believe Congress has gone far enough in opposing the war, with liberal Democrats especially critical of their party’s failure to force the president into a significant change in policy.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/02/4251/

So why not show some backbone and support legislation that fulfills our will? You might be surprised at how your approval ratings increase!