So is the problem that people creating disturbances are getting arrested (in airports), or that they

Guaranteed

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Mon Oct-01-07 10:57 PM
Original message

So is the problem that people creating disturbances are getting arrested (in airports), or that they

die after they have gotten arrested?

I think two issues are being confounded with a lot of these reports on police actions that end up with tasering and/or death.

Is it that the police acted to arrest the person that went over the line, or that they allowed the person to die in the process?

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Kagemusha

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Mon Oct-01-07 10:59 PM
Response to Original message

1. I think the uh, dying part, is notable here.

But I don't believe anyone's story so I'll wait for the autopsy. Hopefully the story will come out from the evidence, to use a CSI cliche.

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Guaranteed

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Mon Oct-01-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #1

3. Waiting for the autopsy to find a place to begin judgment is good thinking.

The cause of this woman's death is important.

Normally, people don't die from being taken down to the ground, or put in handcuffs. Just speculating, I'd say that there is a very good chance that she had a heart condition.

The possibility of which raises another question: How are police to deal with the possibility that the person that they are arresting may be in ill health, and that procedures that would not put a person of normal health in danger of losing their life could very well put that person in such danger if they have such a condition?

It seems as if it would be difficult for police to tell just from looking at a person.

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atreides1

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Mon Oct-01-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #3

6. Let's hold our judgment until the autopsy is performed

But, it won't be a surprise if it comes out in favor of the officers.

When I worked at the county jail in Tucson it was standard procedure that as part of the intake process, the arrestees were seen by the jail nurse on duty, I'm sure that somewhere in the Sky Harbor airport there was at least an EMT available!

As for the cause of death, seeing as how the local ME has a personal concern, i.e. keeping on good terms with local law enforcement, perhaps an independent ME should be brought in, if for nothing else, to at least keep the locals honest.

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pitohui

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Mon Oct-01-07 10:59 PM
Response to Original message

2. the problem is they killed the woman

i have no problem w. a proper arrest for drunk and disorderly if this be the case, i have a problem that the woman was pretty obviously mishandled -- it is impossible that she died the way they claimed, they should make it at least a LITTLE believable when they screw up and then cover up, yanno?

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emilyg

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Mon Oct-01-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #2

9. wait for autopsy report.

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pitohui

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Tue Oct-02-07 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #9

10. you know what, i have a brain and a heart

i can make a judgment based on the information i have now and if BETTER info comes in later, fine, i'll adjust

but if you have to wait to make a judgment based on what we know now...well...all i can say is, god help the people who have to live with you

what the authorities say happen isn't credible, what her family and what witnesses say happen is credible, and i've been to that airport many a time

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DaveJ

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Mon Oct-01-07 11:14 PM
Response to Original message

4. When the TSA employs idiotic thugs it doesn't matter what the reason

Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 11:14 PM by djohnson

It's not like they can respond to rational civilized training. I had a lame temp job involved in the hiring of these people and they were not the cream of the crop, to say the least.

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Guaranteed

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Mon Oct-01-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #4

5. OK, that's just characterization.

What policies would you put into effect to rectify the situation?

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DaveJ

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Mon Oct-01-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #5

7. How would I train thugs? First, some jail time.

Really, I'm not sure how to respond. The likes of these TSA hires will manage to squirm around any policies. They should have kept existing security personnel after 9/11 in the first place, people with years of experience, instead of hiring these street urchins.

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Guaranteed

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Mon Oct-01-07 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #7

8. Will jail time teach them how to deal with such a situation more

effectively?

Where are you coming from on this?

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pitohui

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Tue Oct-02-07 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #8

11. no but for a period of time it will stop them from killing others

jail isn't free college for the perps, it is also about punishment and justice for the victim

what jail teaches whoever murdered this lady is pretty secondary, first and foremost we need to know if we're murdered for the crime of being drunk, someone will pay

this crap of hurting prisoners may happen a LOT in phoenix, suggest you google their sheriff and their pd, this is a cult of fetishistic cruelty and many victims don't have family behind them to get justice

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Guaranteed

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Tue Oct-02-07 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #11

12. ....yeahhhhhh

Look, if you have an idea of how authorities are supposed to deal with the possibility of someone having a heart condition when they're being arrested, you should suggest it.

The idea isn't to just let the authorities act arbitrarily, and then if bad results occur, throw them in jail. Because that doesn't do anyone any good- the authorities or the people they're arresting. Sure, this woman might feel better if the police acted negligently and were put in jail for that, but it won't help much when she's dead. She'd probably rather that policies were put in place to begin with that actually address the problem. So would anyone in the future to whom this might happen.

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