What would have satisfied you?

What could Congress have done that would have met with your approval? Let me stipulate from the get go, that I'm disappointed in some of the leadership's actions or inactions as well. But I'm convinced that a vocal minority here would bitch and snipe no matter what they did.

If they'd impeached and failed, there would be howls about how they didn't go about right and didn't really want to impeach and convict, and that's why it failed. (And yes, the odds are heavily waited toward failure)

If they'd held a vote on contempt citations and failed, much of the same complaints would be heard. If they issued contempt citations and Taylor did nothing, there would be howls about that.

Some people are more invested with blaming dems for all and everything. That's their shtick. Nothing would satisfy them short of the absurd- like the Congressional dems marching on the WH and bodily throwing bushco out.

I don't think it would fail if it was a serious investigation. The evidence is piled all around them in various committees.

And if they Impeached and failed, I would call them Patriots and heroes. This should be job number one, IMO.

illusion that it would succeed. You'd need to find bushco with the proverbial "live boy" to get enough pukes on board.

I'm for it because I think the precedent set by not initiating impeachment, is horrendous and dangerous.

But, like you I don't believe that it would have succeeded, even if Bush was found with the "live boy". The pukes don't care as the evidence continues to show, even if photos surfaced of Bush sacrificing a child the pukes would still defend him.

They worship the man, and piss on the constitution every day.

I would rather have seen votes to impeach.
Votes for contempt citations.
Votes to restrict the use of war funding.
Votes against a FISA extension.
Votes against military commissions.

and, if Dimson vetoes them, vote for them again.

I'd rather see the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party setting an agenda.

Instead of rolling over and playing dead. Excuse me-"keeping their powder dry."

Sometimes an act of futility is pretty courageous.

One of the worst things that happened to our democracy (IMHO) was Ford pardoning Nixon. I think that is THE reason for the treasonous behavior this white house undertakes and gets away with. The Dick saw the president's power eroded and by-god he was going to fix that if he ever got the opportunity to get his sleazy self back in power. Now, that's my problem with the House and the Senate, they won't take the power that belongs to them.

Investigations. Not of this pussy-footing "Oh please
give us the documents or we'll hold our breath until
Utah turns blue!" kind, but real investigations with
real badged, armed men showing up to collect documents
or haul people off to the clink for not producing them.

Impeachment. If Bush, Chenney, and the senior officials
of his administration are not impeachable, then no one
is or ever will be again. The House has a *CONSTITUTIONAL
DUTY* to take this step for high crimes and misdemeanors
and we ain't talking about a semen stain on a blue dress
here.

No war funding without timetables. After that first funding
bill was vetoed, they should have passed it again. And again.
And again and again. And if Bush never signed it, why the
war would end because there'd be no further funding for the
war.

Noise. I'd expect every elected Democrat to make noise
every day about the Republicans and the Bush administration
Take no prisoners. Tell the unvarnished truth. *LEARN TO
USE THE WORDS "LIARS", "LIES", and "LIED", and use them
often.

The Democratic Congress that we worked so hard to elect
is turning out to be a miserable failure.

Tesha

I meant the same.

I'm inclined to say pull the plug on the Iraq War. As Gravel stated it ate the Dem debate, it can be done. The repubs could do things like that.
But that is indeed a tough one in your media climate.
What I really fear though is that actually the majority in congress DOES feel that going to war over a strategic interest such as oil is acceptable. It all starts with the "we're better than the rest" attitude.

One thing I do not understand is the ignored subpoenas. Not raising TOTAL HELL about that 24/7 makes Congress irrelevant. Raising that hell would at the very least present an opportunity to educate the american people on the endless list of crimes of Bush*co. Now it remains on the sidelines and known only to politicos such as Duers I think.

I don't. One of my Senator's doesn't seem to think it's as simple as Gravel. But why would I trust Bernie Sanders?

As for the subpoenas, let me give you a brief explanation: Contempt citations, including inherent contempt require votes. I suspect strongly that they don't have them. And if they issue them, Bush has instructed the U.S. Attorney for D.C. not to pursue them. Can he order Taylor to stonewall contempt citations? Evidently.

It'll be interesting to see whether the subpoena issue and the contempt issue are brought up in confirmation hearing(s) for Mukasey.

can you reference his position on it? I'm just interested, no offense intended.
Why I liked what Gravel said : it displayed the kind of take no prisoners attitude I expected from a Congress that got such a clear mandate.

How many votes does contempt need? The dems do have a majority, no? Is that not enough? Or is it a case of the Dems not being lockstep when they NEED to?

By the way, I agree with your premise that some people will never be satisfied. Are you? And why (not)?

either the last time he was on, or the time before that. They don't don't have transcripts but do have podcasts. It's listed under programs and then Vermont Edition.

As for votes for contempt it's my understanding that it's a floor vote not just a committee vote, and no all the dems are not on board.

No, I'm not satisfied. I'm specifically dissatisfied on the 6 month FISA bill, the RESTORE Act's 'basket warrants, not impeaching, and the lack of an effective tactic to foreshorten the war.

I don't find the right podcast right away at http://www.vpr.net/listen/podcasts/ since Bernie isn't listed directly.

It is a pity not all dems are on board. I do appreciate the Dems not being lockstep on everything but why one would not support the enforcement of subpoenas issued by a committee with a Dem chosen chairman is beyond me. But if you say that is the political reality, I believe you. I'd wish to know who would vote against though.

What WOULD be an effective tactic to foreshorten the war...now that's a great question too. I just can't imagine there is NO possibility at all when you have the majority. The war, imho, is illegal, insane and counterproductive and a majority of the people think the same. There is hardly a tactic that would be inappropriate. Not trying at all (and I don't mean words but hard action) would make me feel real bad if I voted Dem for CHANGE in 06.

postponing debate on the war. WTF?

Bush and his cohorts have committed crime after crime, and for the health of the state, the Congress needs to fulfill its Constitutional duty of oversight. Even if they had failed in the effort to impeach, just doing so sends a message and wakens the public. But sadly, they've failed to do so, and this failure will only encourage further crimes by future administrations.

They should also defund the war. The overwhelming majority of the public want the war to end. Most Americans would support defunding. They were elected to majority power last fall with the clear mandate to end the war ASAP, yet instead they continue to fund it, and prolong it. They are failing in their basic duty to be representatives of their constituents.

This is what would satisfy me, yet all they have done so far is pass meaningless resolutions and mouth pious platitudes. This achieves nothing, and allows the death and destruction to continue.

muffler. The obstruction is not being seen for what it is.

There is a cure for this!

Make the Repugs actually veto the votes... Make them read the phone book overnight on CSpan while they sweat to keep some really popular legislation from getting to the floor. That would make the media:

1) COVER it because it would be unusual and funny looking
and
2) EXPLAIN it, because it would last long enough to make them "fill air time" with it.

That satisfies me.

I look forward to what they will accomplish in nine more months, and the nine mothhs after that.

because I KNEW he/they would NEVER be removed - NEVER get 67 votes in the Senate - HOWEVER somewhere along the way and its been a while now I changed my mind. I did this because the criminality of this administration IS SO OUTRAGEOUS it needs to be brought to light - investigated - and exposed EVEN if they are not removed they need to be held accountable in some way. Also I firmly believe it is a Constitutional responsibility of the Congress to impeach.

I was SO hopeful after the Dems won the majority and am now SO disappointed not necessarily because of impeachment but because of all the caving - seemed so good at first all the hearings and supposed investigations BUT other than Gonzales leaving I see NO RESULTS of the Dems 10 months in the majority and I see more BS and whining than I can stand - it seems like they are caving on continuing the investigation of the crap going on in Justice - what is going on with vote caging - it was bad the US Attorneys fired but I fear it is WAY worse what the ones who weren't fired are up to. The August FISA thing was ASTONISHING and I fear the Dems will cave again.

Bottom line is I've almost reached complete hopelessness - I use to think the Dems were acting like this because they were either suffering from battered wife syndrome, were being threatened in some way or in on it - Now I'm convinced they are in on it - their actions make no sense.....

and I don't mean all Dems I know there are a few good ones - but they are not being listened to and neither are we....

destroy the 'Patriot' Act, impeach Shooter, de-fund the war and bring the troops home. With those items completed they would receive an A on their report card. For extra credit, get the paperwork ready to send *ush to jail when he gets out of office. Big orders for people that seem to shake in their shoes when they receive marching orders from their 'Commander and Chief'.

Democrats are sharing power and do not have complete control. But to negotiate with an intransigent opponent, you need to pick an issue that

- Is important to your opponent
- You have some power over, and
- Are willing to use that power.

The last one is what the Democrats failed on with the Iraq funding. Even given the prospect of being blamed for anything that goes wrong when the money runs out, Democrats should have bottled up the funding bill after the veto. And waited.

Politically, Bush cannot accept a complete cutoff of funds, but history has shown he will make concessions if he has no other options. That's infinitely better than shrugging and sending him what he wanted all along.

of what your chances of succeeding are- It is about standing up for something- Taking a stand that you are just not willing to be 'scared' out of - for fear of failing.

People bitch and moan about everything- If those who represent us are going to refuse to act based on the fear of failure or grumbling- (which seems like the current MO-) then what is the point of having the SHAM of "representation"?

Your question is like people who say "what is the point of voting?"- "my vote doesn't make any difference"-


It isn't about "blaming Dems"- imo- not by a long shot- it is about being able to have trust in those who tell us they will do something, to be true to their words- and to the ideals they CLAIM to support and defend.

peace~

And in the minority here, but used to that....

You can't do it with fifty one, especially when some of the fifty one aren't riding on the antiwar train....

At least McMurphy tried to move the sink.