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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 08:57 PM
Original message
President misquoted over gays in Iran: aide
"What Ahmadinejad said was not a political answer. He said that, compared to American society, we don't have many homosexuals," presidential media adviser Mohammad Kalhor said.

Kalhor told Reuters that because of historical, religious and cultural differences homosexuality was less common in Iran and the Islamic world than in the West.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSBLA05294620071010
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. wow, whodathunk!
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. LOL. You Ahmadinejad
apologists are so funny. From a post about this in LBN:

"Here we go with the BS again, backtracking by his aides on what he said. I speak farsi he was not misquoted or mistranslated, now if he wants to backtrack and apologize that is a different story."

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I just want to make sure you see this so I'm posting it twice
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 09:22 PM by seemslikeadream
I doubt that Polk is an apologist

Author of the books



The Middle East: Taking Stock and Looking Ahead
Source: FPA Event
Author: Remarks by William R. Polk, Senior Director of the W.P. Carey Foundation


http://www.fpa.org/topics_info2414/topics_info_show.htm?doc_id=404719


The famous quotation from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was mistranslated. He never said he intended to “wipe Israel off the map.” He certainly does not like Israel and has said a number of harsh words about it, and, as we all know, he did come out with a foolish denial of the holocaust. But what he said was that Israel as now conceived is an anomaly and will either transform itself or will fade away. Many outside observers, although fearful of being changed with anti-Semitism if they say so publicly, privately agree. A few weeks ago, reacting to the events of the Middle East, Alan Hart of the BBC openly told an audience at the International Institute for Strategic Affairs in London that “what we might now be witnessing is the long beginning of the end of the Zionist state of Israel.”
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Sorry, the nuance between
vanish from the pages of time, evidently a colloquialism and wipe Israel off the map, may be real, but in the context of the other things he's said- some very recently, I don't neccessarily agree with Polk. And btw, does Polk speak Farsi?

And I love the way he diminishes what Ahmadinejad has said denying the Holocaust by characterizing it as "foolish". Yep, just a foolish slip of the tongue. And the Holocaust denial Conference was just a foolish little mistake.

I ain't buying.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I believe he's a little smarter than you
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 10:21 PM by seemslikeadream
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_R._Polk

William Roe Polk is a veteran foreign policy consultant, author, and relation of president James K. Polk. He was born in Fort Worth, Texas. He studied in Latin America and worked on a Rome newspaper before matriculating and earning a BA and PhD from Harvard University, and BA and MA from Oxford University. Polk taught at Harvard from 1955–61, when he joined the State Department's Policy Planning Council specializing in Asian and African issues. While there he served as a member of the Cuban Missile Crisis management team. Polk joined the University of Chicago faculty as Professor of History in 1965 and taught there for ten years. During that period he established their Center for Middle Eastern Studies, and in 1967 became president of the Adlai Stevenson Institute of International Affairs. He served as an advisor to McGeorge Bundy during the 1967 Six-Day War.

Polk is senior director of the W.P. Carey Foundation and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He lives and writes in southern France.


Books
Backdrop to Tragedy: The Struggle for Palestine (1957). coauthors William R. Polk, David M. Stamler, and Edmund Asfour. Beacon Press online edition
The Opening of South Lebanon, 1788-1840: A Study of the Impact of The West on the Middle East (1963). Harvard University Press
The United States and the Arab World (1965). Harvard University Press, 3rd edition 1975: ISBN 0-674-92718-4
The Arab World. 4th edition 1980, hardcover: ISBN 0-674-04316-2, paperback: ISBN 0-674-04317-0
The Arab World Today. 5th edition 1991, ISBN 0-674-04319-7
Beginnings of Modernization in the Middle East: The Nineteenth Century (1968). University of Chicago Press, ISBN 0-226-67425-8
Passing Brave (1973). Alfred Knopf, ISBN 0-394-47893-2
The Elusive Peace: The Middle East in the Twentieth Century (1979). Palgrave McMillan, ISBN 0-312-24383-9
Neighbors and Strangers: The Fundamentals of Foreign Affairs (1997). University Of Chicago Press, ISBN 0-226-67329-4
Polk's Folly: An American Family History (2000). Doubleday, ISBN 0-385-49150-6, Anchor paperback ISBN 0-385-49151-4
Understanding Iraq: The Whole Sweep of Iraqi History from Genghis Khan's Mongols to the Ottoman Turks to the British Mandate to the American Occupation (2005). HarperCollins hardcover: ISBN 0-06-076468-6, paperback: ISBN 0-06-076469-4
The Birth of America: From Before Columbus to the Revolution (2006). HarperCollins hardcover: ISBN 0-06-075090-1
Out of Iraq: A Practical Plan for Withdrawal Now (2006). coauthor George McGovern, Simon & Schuster paperback: ISBN 1-4165-3456-3
Violent Politics: A History of Insurgency, Terrorism, and Guerrilla War, from the American Revolution to Iraq (2007). HarperCollins hardcover: ISBN 0-06-123619-5
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. LOL. Could be.
Does he speak Farsi? Oh, and whether or not he's smarter than I, isn't exactly the issue here. Lots of people are smarter than I am. Again, that's not exactly germane.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I imagine he's got some great resourses

http://democracyrising.us/content/view/658/164/
When U.S. Occupation in Iraq Ends the Violence is More Likely to Subside PDF | Print | E-mail
Written by Kevin Zeese
Monday, 04 December 2006

Half Measures Seem Less Dangerous, But Are Often Moreso
An Interview with William Polk, Author of Out of Iraq

William Polk is co-author with George McGovern of Out of Iraq and can be purchased on Amazon and at many other outlets. He taught at Harvard University from 1955 to 1961 when President Kennedy appointed him a Member of the Policy Planning Council of the United States Department of State. In 1965, Dr. Polk became Professor of History at the University of Chicago. There he also established the Center for Middle Eastern Studies and was a founding director of the Middle Eastern Studies Association. He was called back to the White House briefly during the 1967 Middle Eastern War to write a draft peace treaty and to act as an advisor to McGeorge Bundy, the former head of the National Security Council, who was the president's personal representative during that crisis. Dr. Polk is also the author of a treatise on The United States and the Arab World (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1963, 1969. 1975, 1980 and 1991), Understanding Iraq, (HarperCollins Publishers, 2005) and numerous other books. More information on Dr. Polk can be found at: http://www.williampolk.com/ and in the article below.




Kevin Zeese: Describe the relevant parts of your background, e.g. connection to Iraq, experience with insurgencies and your study of insurgencies.

William Polk: I visited the Middle East first in 1946 because my older brother George Polk was then the chief CBS correspondent there. On my way back to America, I stopped for some weeks in Baghdad. I was to return there many times over the years. In 1951, as a Fellow of the Rockefeller Foundation, I lived in and began a serious study of Iraq. That resulted in a short book for the American Foreign Policy Association called "What the Arabs Think." I then went on to Oxford where I studied Arabic and Turkish. After Oxford, I taught and did my doctorate at Harvard where I was assistant to the director of the Middle East Studies Center, Sir Hamilton Gibb. From there, President Kennedy appointed me to the Policy Planning Council where I was responsible for most of the Islamic world and took part in a wide range of studies and actions. I was head of the interdepartmental task that helped to end the Algerian war and was a member of the crisis management subcommittee that dealt with the Cuban Missile Crisis. Through my work on Egypt, President Nasser gave me an opportunity to visit, travel extensively in and meet the senior officials in Yemen and then Crown Prince Faisal of Saudi Arabia afforded the same opportunity for me to meet with the Yemeni Royalist guerrillas. During that period, I also visited Viet Nam where former Vice President Henry Cabot Lodge allowed me free rein to talk with all the American and Vietnamese officials. Drawing these first-hand experiences together and reading widely on others, I made an extensive study of guerrilla warfare on which I lectured at the National War College. After four exciting and informative years in government, I resigned, partly because of the Viet Nam war which I opposed and (unpopularly) predicted we would lose, and became professor of history and founder-director of the Middle East Studies Center at the University of Chicago.

While at Chicago, I co-chaired (with Evgeni Primakov who later became Russian prime minister) a Pugwash committee on peace in the Middle East, twice lectured at the Soviet Academy of Sciences in Moscow and participated in various study groups at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. In 1967, I also became president of the Adlai Stevenson Institute of International Affairs where I participated in a number of studies of guerrilla warfare including those of David Halberstam and Neil Sheehan who both began their books on Viet Nam there.

Over the next few years, I often visited Iraq and wrote several books (The United States and the Arab World, The Elusive Peace: The Middle East in the Twentieth Century, etc.). I visited Iraq a few days before the invasion and discussed with Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz how it might have been avoided. I then reported at the School of Advanced International Affairs in Washington what I thought could have accomplished the purposes of the American government while preventing the tragic events that followed the invasion. Obviously, I failed.
But as I read and heard what was being reported, I was appalled by the lack of understanding of Iraq by almost all journalists and most officials. With one outstanding exception, a former student of mine, Ambassador Hume Horan, no one even in Paul Bremer's administration knew Arabic and had a sophisticated understanding of Iraq. So I wrote a primer on the subject entitled Understanding Iraq. After reading that, Senator George McGovern, whom I have long admired as a man of rare integrity, suggested that we write together the book that laid out clearly and succinctly how we got into Iraq, what happened to us, the Iraqis and our position in the world when we did, how we could extricate ourselves with the least possible damage to ourselves, Iraq, and our reputation, and what will happen if we do not. That project became Out of Iraq: A Practical Plan for Withdrawal Now (Simon & Schuster, October 2006).

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. sure it is you always seem to think you know it all
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. hm. I'm an apologist? how so?
leaping to conclusions, much?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I speak farsi
and I leap to conclusions in English
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. lol! but I was talking to cali
there may be some confusion
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wasn't there a movie scene where an interpreter almost starts a war? n/t
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh, he said that Iran doesn't have MANY homsexuals as opposed to ANY!
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 09:18 PM by rocknation
My bad...or should I blame it on the translator?

:eyes:
rocknation
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
4.  He gets misquoted a lot

Author of the books



The Middle East: Taking Stock and Looking Ahead
Source: FPA Event
Author: Remarks by William R. Polk, Senior Director of the W.P. Carey Foundation


http://www.fpa.org/topics_info2414/topics_info_show.htm?doc_id=404719


The famous quotation from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was mistranslated. He never said he intended to “wipe Israel off the map.” He certainly does not like Israel and has said a number of harsh words about it, and, as we all know, he did come out with a foolish denial of the holocaust. But what he said was that Israel as now conceived is an anomaly and will either transform itself or will fade away. Many outside observers, although fearful of being changed with anti-Semitism if they say so publicly, privately agree. A few weeks ago, reacting to the events of the Middle East, Alan Hart of the BBC openly told an audience at the International Institute for Strategic Affairs in London that “what we might now be witnessing is the long beginning of the end of the Zionist state of Israel.”
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. You don't really think that's definitive
proof do you? kind of childish waving that around as if it were some sort of talisman.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. So what do you think of that great statesman George McGovern?
Too liberal for ya?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Love George McGovern. So?
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 10:23 PM by cali
Is this really your idea of a cogent argument? How sad. You can return now to your noble defense of Ahmadinejad.

Oh, and my Senator's not too liberal for me, either- and he's a socialist.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. That is sooooooooo surprising
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 10:26 PM by seemslikeadream
I wouldn't think you'd have to much in common
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Actually, I'd guess that Bernie
has much more in common with me than you. And I'd be in more of a position to know that.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Do the two of you want to get out of Iraq now?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. you're someone badly in need of the
the Tilopa treatment.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Oh that's rich
Edited on Wed Oct-10-07 11:24 PM by seemslikeadream
go enlighten yourself

Ms. "can't let go of Pelosi"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2007486

Why can't you just answer the question?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. snarky is so yesterday
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-10-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. The hangings are a little harder to misunderstand
Not a lot of different ways to translate the swinging bodies of executed gay youths.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
23. Of course he doesn't
Because he freaking executes them. That's why.

Why are you such an apologist for this guy?
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-11-07 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
26. Oh, I see. They have less of us because of "cultural differences"
Edited on Thu Oct-11-07 03:39 PM by Harvey Korman
i.e., homosexuality is a cultural "problem," not an innate characteristic.

Couldn't be that due to your backwards, archaic, and oppressive social and religious rules, and your barbaric standards of crime and punishment, homosexuality is just less apparent because people fear for their lives, could it?

Oh, and I almost forgot, there are less of us in your country because you kill gays and lesbians and transgender people wherever you find them.

Fuck Ahmadinejad and fuck anyone who apologizes or "clarifies" for him.
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