If Turkey does send in ground forces - and they probably

will at this point - we are totally screwed. We will not be getting the kids out of there - it will escalate.

I really don't like to post this and I do not want to respond - it is too much for me.

Cause I hoped the US had persuaded Turkey that we could control things. Not that we could, but that we could throw up a facade long enough to get the kids the hell out of there.

I said this, maybe not clear enough once. Those people, these neocons - they are refighting the Peloponnesian war- I do not mean to be cute. That IS their point of reference. Every military history student knows it. They fricking admit it. Let me give you the quick and dirty - Sparta and Athens knock the living crap out of each other - Persia sees the opportunity and comes in - A FEW YEARS LATER comes in and burns Athens to the ground. THAT IS THEIR MODEL. Really. It is not cool.

We have time - in theory - it hasn't happened yet. We are at that point in the car accident where we haven't actually hit the wall. Not yet.

Pertaeus says he is mostly concerned about the supply routes out of the north. He must think we are pretty stupid, or he is. He should not be commanding those kids in either scenario.


Joe

and why now?

and BTW here's our own genocide denier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ica-XWfhLeo

they want a conflagration in the Mid East? It appears to be great for the war profiteers so why the fuck not?

As if we don't have enough problems in the ME, this almost 100 year old Armenian thing has come out of the blue, and once again we appear to be sticking our nose in places where no other country seems to go. I don't agree that it should have been turned into an issue because of the potential negative strategic impact to our military in Iraq at this point in time. There have been other genocides that have not been addressed. I don't see this boding well for anyone but the military industrial complex.

and they would like those Kirkuk wells too

The madness of the fools in DOD must be stopped. They can't expect our troops to take on the world while the rich cash in on war.

Thanks for posting, Joe.

the same thing. I think Fallon does too - and I think he has proven himself a good officer. SO maybe we have one thing going for us.

This guy - Petraeus is not competent - just not. He is likely to kiss ass all the way off the cliff.

They don't want to recall Clark - too democrat for them - fine. Get Batiste - he is a conservative - the thing is -THEY ARE BOTH COMPETENT.

The army must be throwing up by now - they know the deal here. I have not always been very flattering about the army - any army - but I know ours are basically competent.

When they took an oath to protect the constitution - they mostly meant it.

I am over the moral problems with this war in a way - I can look to the technical too - and they better do the same. If my ideology was liberalism it was tempered in reality - are theirs???

This better not be allowed to leave the borders of Iraq - afraid of supply lines my ass - be afraid of what a stirred up populace might do - this is deadly serious right now.

Joe

Always good to read.

more profits for the war profiteers

This is hitting very close to home for me. I have trouble speaking about it now - it used to be theoretical - and it is just becoming more and more real. Really I am a pretty good student of American 19th century warfare. It is funny to me I got published on 20th centruy war - to me.

But it doesn't matter - cause really, war is war is war. They are all pretty much the same. Different rationalizations, better or worse causes.

I am trying to say - if this thing crosses borders now - there is no way out for those kids to get pulled.

I only ever had one aim in anything I ever posted - I want our kids the hell out there - this is not our fight and it never was. This is really bad. Keep other countries out of this - It is already pretty tangled up.

Joe

and your son to be safe.

Thanks for keeping us informed about the north in Iraq.

Maybe once in a thousand years - you have to fight a war, you get no choice.

That happened to us in 1941 (and the world) - we had no choice, and we stopped a dark age and it cost us dearly.

That standard really better be our marker for when war is necessary. Those kids paid dearly to stop that dark age - they paid the price for many decades. They had to. And every other war - it just doesn't measure up to the cost.

We lost about 4000 kids now - we lost everything those kids would have every done in our society - all the taxes they would have ever paid. We got tens of thousand of kids maimed maybe times ten psychological wounded. SO what is the true cost in the end??

Wars of foreign intrique - they are the epitomy of what is wrong to a true liberal or a true conservative. We agree on this.

If the United States is an eagle -then we have two wings - a right and a left. They are true. Don't be in the middle when those wings meet each other.

Don't let this happen here - we have a lot of friends in this one concern and we better reach out to each other or this bastard is going to sink us. Sure as hell.

Joe

91% of Turks already hate American foreign policy.

Do you think this might push something off the cliff?

No NATO show down - China and Russia must be laughing their ass off at this point.

Why does the Sibel Edmonds case surface in my mind?

Feghali... intercepts... Turkish spies... FBI translation department... 9/11.... Congressional cover-up....

Now this: Turkish escalation of a war born from the ashes of 9/11.

Is it just me?

Power vacuum filled! :thumbsup:

more tribal.

Joe

Become the Kurds security forces. Make a pact with Turkey that we will suppress PKK activities if they stayed on their side of the fence. We will also make sure they get their fill of Kirkuk oil. Let the Shia and Sunni settle their differences. They've been spoiling for this fight for a long time. If they do break down to ethinic groups, the Sunni will have access to the western oil fields. That's not near what they had before the war, but it's something. They will also control The Euphrates starting just north of Ramadi.

which in fact it is.

Joe