Wow... If This Is True, It Is Beyond Depressing...

<snip>

During the 2000 Florida recount, I became acquainted with an advisor to Al Gore’s campaign. I recently asked this guy why the former vice president had decided against running in 2008. He responded that if Gore became president the Iraq War would end and that Gore understands the Iraq War will not be allowed to end, therefore Gore cannot become president. Mr. Gore believes that he could win the presidency again, but as the 2000 election demonstrated winning the presidency and becoming president are two very different things.

For Al Gore devotion to principle exceeds personal ambition, words that have never been written about Giuliani or Clinton. For them, as with all the other viable presidential contenders, the goal is to honor the corporate agenda and reap the considerable personal benefits of doing so.

Consequently, next year Americans will experience yet another farcical exercise in democracy. No matter who wins the election the Iraq War will continue. American soldiers will continue to die and American taxpayers will continue to pay so that American corporations will continue to thrive. That is reality, and there is no relief in sight.

When Ricardo Sanchez said the nightmare is endless, he wasn’t exaggerating.

<snip>

From the end of Podvin's piece: http://makethemaccountable.com/index.php/2007/10/14/david-podvin-eternal-nightmare/

I really hope that that advisor was talking out of his ass.

:banghead:

and I figure that things are far worse than he is showing.

There is no formal opposition to the war or proper representation of what the people think. Just handy little sound bytes now and then from a few renegades, but nothing substantial to threaten the stoppage of the well planned out raping and pillaging of Iraq over which sooooo many people are getting so much richer. from so many camps.

this corporate christofascist cabal is fucking over the entire world.

take what you can get. there is no law for the high and mighty.

I hope thats not true.

Of course it is, and we all know it. Nothing has changed with the voting system. It is just a show to keep the masses entertained. The appearance of normalcy. Make us believe. Make believe.

The phrase "BREAD and CIRCUS" comes to mind. Like a sporting event. The Superbowl of politics. And the people are eating it all up.

It isn't who votes that matters, its who counts those votes.

the candidates are the same and are controlled by the same powers that be.

would be stolen from any Democrat who was prepared to end the war -- then he should be screaming his head off about what he knows.

In 2000, Gore gave up fighting too soon. He shouldn't run if he isn't prepared to put up a much bigger fight than he did then.

This sums up what I have been trying to say in a few threads.

(assuming it's true)

Devotion to principle would mean protecting democracy in the US.

Gore has to know that an agenda to improve the environment can't be advanced unless we have democracy and a legal government that represents people.

That said, Gore had a lot of advisors on his 2000 campaign that were ineffective and wrong and who he no longer listens to for advice. Let's hope the one the OP spoke with is one of those.

'globalism' has done much to hurt the environment. I don't think there is too much talk about stopping that big machine from gouging the earth in ravenous greed. business as usual, but buy some better lightbulbs! or like factory farming and hamburger disease - just fry it real good! it's the consumers' responsibility - but business as usual for the mega's. ca ching, ca ching.

and can do a lot of good across the globe, not being harnassed by a brazillion issues like the POTUS deals with.

*shrug*

... and a disqualifier for the Presidency. In fact, there's a large contingent here who revel in that opinion.

Why would anyone be surprised?

What a system, eh???

:hi:

If Gore knows of a massive conspiracy to rig elections and keep the Iraq war going, and yet remains silent and/or business as usual, how is that putting principle above personal ambition?

He may simply have decided not to subject himself and his family to the onslaught of attack that he'd face. He may judge that, given he'd face such rabid opposition even if elected, he may be more effective outside of the White House than within. Many people believe the worst about the current regime in power today, of which Bush is a figurehead. Perhaps Gore does not want to be Wellstoned.

>>For Al Gore devotion to principle exceeds personal ambition.<<

That's a nice thought, and I've nothing against Al, but that statement clashes with my personal memories of him.

When, exactly, did he put principle over personal ambition? When he decided not to run for President?

Ah, but he DID run for president -- more than once. And I distinctly remember Primary candidate Gore pandering with the rest of them. I specifically recall a day in 92, when he was campaigning in New York. His campaign wasn't going well, and he was literally calling out to passers-by, trying to impress them with himself -- shouting, (for example) to one, "Are you a veteran? I am! I'm a veteran."

Not that there's anything wrong with that -- but it isn't noble; it isn't the kind of behavior a man of real principle engages in.

When Robert Lee turned down command of the Union forces rather than 'raise his sword' against his 'countrymen', (even though he knew it would cost him verything he had), THAT was a man putting principles ahead of personal ambition.

Can you imagine RE Lee standing on a street corner, campaigning for office, calling out to strangers, "I'm a veteran. Are you a veteran? Vote for me."

He's not the same person he was in 1992, or 2000.

Ya know? People change, evolve personally.

In my mind, he could have had the presidency this time as easy as pie. But he doesn't want it. THAT makes him truly unlike most politicians. To know you could have that position, and to decline it.

Gotta be some principal involved, no?

:shrug:

The military-industrial corporatocracy?

The "representatives" of the people - you know, that Democratic majority we elected last November who hasn't done shit?

It's truly disheartening to realize that the wheels on this Train to Hell were greased by those who were supposed to be doing the will of the people? :mad:

It's also truly disheartening to understand that the most intelligent and qualified person to lead this country is disqualifying himself because our 'democracy' is so warped. :(

Who knows how much the "advisor" in the OP actually know about what Gore thinks?

Really, the "hanging chads" (brought to you by ES&S, by the way--see Dan Rather's "The Trouble with Touchscreens" - www.HD.net) were child's play compared to the lock the global corporate predators now have on our election outcomes, with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, in all the new voting systems fast-tracked around the country (with $3.9 billion in boondoggle funding from the Anthrax Congress).

This locked down, non-transparent, undemocratic, illegal, unconstitutional, corrupt, and extremely insecure and insider riggable vote 'counting' system was put into place by a bill--the so-called "Help American Vote Act" (he, he, he)--in the same month as the Iraq War Resolution(Oct '02), and is closely related to it. The IWR guaranteed unjust war; HAVA provided the means to shove the unjust war down the throats of the American people, 56% of whom opposed it from the very beginning (Feb. '03), and a whopping 70% of whom oppose it now.

Gore is right. The global corporate predators who rule over us will NOT permit the war to end. We're in for a Draft and an endless corporate resource war at our expense--until we start peeling back the METHODS by which the fascists have overcome that great, peace-minded, justice-minded American majority. First priority: restore transparent vote counting. This is the bottom line of democracy--vote counting that everyone can see and understand. Without it, we cannot even begin to reform this country.

I think this aide is right on. I think that's exactly the situation. No one who would stop the war, and do what's right for our country and our people on this and other matters, will be permitted into White House. Non-transparent, corporate-controlled vote 'counting' locks change out of the system. And all those "unitary executive" powers that Bush/Cheney have meanwhile pioneered--with so much Democratic leadership complicity or mind-boggling silence--are for suppressing US.

It's not good, folks--but we need to face it all with open eyes. And we need to get to work, at the state/local level--where ordinary people still have some influence--to rebuild our democracy, from the bottom up, starting with the demand for TRANSPARENT vote counting, while it still remains a LOCAL power.

They want to keep the Fiasco going for their benefit of the '08 Elections & also want that Oil Deal to be finalized. The MIC & the Multi-Corps control them all. The majority of Dems don't give a rat's ass what the citizens want. They are also banking on Dems to vote for them no matter how betrayed they feel.

If the occupants of the WH are just little tool puppets, why did he rum in 2000?

The people pushing these wild ass stories need a bump up in their meds.

cause this is not the America I grew to Believe in .

:grr: :cry: :grr:

I also believe it will take another American Revolution to end the corporate and washington tyranny. The American voters and public are growing more restless and intolerant of our government's extreme corruption.

talking about how fucked things are gives them
an adrenalin rush that is satisfying and narcotizing
at the same time.
If things are fucked, you get to be angry and
righteous and tell yourself that "they're all
FOOLS, BLIND FOOLS",
but you don't actually have to DO anything, right?

I just find its not an empowering path, and history
shows that although the powerful will always find new
ways to try to oppress and dominate, change does
happen.
My approach is just to get to work. We dont get advance
guarantees that anything will come out well. We only
have our inner voice that tells us to speak up, and
speak out.
</sermon>

I've never had any doubt that Gore's "Moral Compass" always fights with the "Political" side of him.

My hope is that he will be CALLED in a way that his "moral compass" will force him to heed.

It's pretty much what's left to us, right now... :-(

Let me begin by saying that I seriously entertain the thought that if Gore had made it into the WH in 2000, that if he didn't play along with the neocon agenda then Gore would have had an "accident" and Lieberman would have taken over the presidency.

In that vein, what if Gore has come to understand exactly who the BFEE is and what they have done to maintain power. Imagine that he has read all of the same information that Octafish lays out in his "Know Your BFEE" posts.

If Gore knew all of that information, couldn't he be suggesting that any president who doesn't go along with BFEE will not be "permitted" (as in allowed to live) to continue in office?

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

Greeman, I so agree with you. We DO need to analyze our situation accurately, and face it with open eyes, but I also understand that inducing depression and feelings of powerlessness are a deliberate strategy of the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, in particular, and of the rigged voting system and other aspects of our fascist political establishment in general. We need to fight this depression like the devil. We need to keep reminding ourselves that SEVENTY PERCENT of the American people oppose this war and want it ended, and that all other stats point to a sturdy, undauntable, peace-minded, justice-minded American majority. We are not alone. We are not a minority. And we are not powerless.

Many people are mystified why the system isn't working, and succumb to feelings of hopelessness--and they need to express this. But we--especially we activists--need to focus on how to empower people, and on the strategies and tools that people need to empower themselves. I think one very, very important one is citizen activism at the state/local level on restoring election transparency. This is doable. It is a movement that is showing signs of snowballing. And it is a critical step back toward democracy.

I just read Lynn Landes' site on the DoD, CIA, corporate news monopoly, and far rightwing interconnections beween the election theft corporations who have taken over our voting system. It is a hair-raising analysis. But it just brings home, with a hammer to the head, how important it is to get our vote counting system back into the public venue. Take a look at this site. It is amazing how much work she has done, to pull all this info together. It is very motivating. Most people don't have to have this detail--they just need the very simple message that the voting system in now in corporate/war profiteer hands, and is run on "TRADE SECRET" code, and we must--we simply MUST--do something about this. It is a no-brainer.

http://www.thelandesreport.com/VotingMachineCompanies.htm

Keep telling people that we are a peace-loving, progressive people, because that is the truth. If it were otherwise--if I thought my fellow Americans were stupid and uncaring, or had fallen for all the fascist propaganda--I would say so. That's a different problem. But the problem here is DISEMPOWERMENT, and, above all, DISENFRANCHISEMENT. And solving it is a very simple, practical matter--certainly not easy, but straightforward and easy to grasp: vote counting that everyone can see and understand. That's all we need to start effecting very dramatic changes. The appalling thing is that it has been kept so under the radar--by our own party leaders as well as the entire political establishment.

Anyway, when this fascist-media induced depression hits, GET PRACTICAL. What's the bottom line of democracy? What's the most needed thing--when you have a whopping 70% anti-war majority in the country? Counting all the votes! And what can you and others do to make that happen?

Koko, there are no "knights in shining armor" who can save our democracy. Only you and I, and the many kindred souls in our communities and in our country, collectively, can do it. If the presidential race sickens you, forget it. Work on the basics. Think ahead to the NEXT election. What do we do as the Emperor Hillary regime unfolds? Can we pressure the emperor--with her "liberal" veneer--to restore transparent elections? It might be possible. She actually voted against the e-voting bill--one of only 2 Senate votes against it. And once she's locked into power, maybe she'll give back on that progressive item. If not, we do it locally. Or we work on both at the same time.

Our democracy was not destroyed in a day, and it will not be rebuilt in a day. And no leader can save it. It's been a long, long erosion of our rights and our sovereignty. And it's going to take time, and a great collective effort to get it back. We have to learn patience and endurance. Most people in the U.S. don't know it, but there is a huge democracy and social justice movement occurring in South America, with leftist (majorityist) governments elected in Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Uruguay and Nicaragua--and likely Paraguay this year. This amazing movement didn't spring out of nowhere. It is the result of long hard work on transparent elections and other democratic processes, grass roots organization, individual courage, and thoughtful, large-minded analysis--thinking big. We have the model for recovery right here in our own hemisphere. And we have virtually an entire continent, to the south of us, who will cheer us on our way, and help us in any way they can. It is in THEIR interest, too, to have good government in the U.S.

If the South Americans can do it--after decades and centuries brutal repression, often at U.S. hands--so can we.