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Dr. Wm Gray Calls Gore and Global Warming 'Ridiculous'! Is He PAID to Say This?

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 05:31 PM
Original message
Dr. Wm Gray Calls Gore and Global Warming 'Ridiculous'! Is He PAID to Say This?
Edited on Sun Oct-14-07 05:35 PM by leftchick
Nature, not man, is to blame, Gore critic insists

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003946751_nobelgray13.html

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — One of the world's foremost meteorologists Friday called the theory that helped Al Gore win a share of the Nobel Prize "ridiculous" and the product of "people who don't understand how the atmosphere works."

William Gray, a pioneer in the science of seasonal hurricane forecasts, spoke to a packed lecture hall at UNC Charlotte and said humans are not responsible for the warming of the Earth.

His visit, arranged through the meteorology program at the university, came on the same day that Gore was honored for his work in support of the link between humans and global warming.

"We're brainwashing our children," said Gray, 78, a professor at Colorado State University. "They're going to the Gore movie ('An Inconvenient Truth') and being fed all this. It's ridiculous."

Gray, whose annual forecasts of the number of tropical storms and hurricanes are widely publicized, said instead that a natural cycle of ocean water temperatures — related to the amount of salt in ocean water — is responsible for the global warming that he acknowledges has taken place.



It Looks as though he is yet another paid shill of the EXXON-MOBIL Climate Denialists machine....



http://www.prwatch.org/fakenews2/vnr40

<snip>

In June 2006, the broadcast PR firm Medialink Worldwide put out a video news release (VNR) titled, "Global Warming and Hurricanes: All Hot Air?" In accompanying materials, the firm identified "TCS Daily Science Roundtable" as the client behind the segment. But Medialink didn't disclose that TCS Daily is a website published by Tech Central Station and was, at the time, a project of the Republican lobbying and PR firm DCI Group. (In October 2006, DCI sold the TCS Daily website.) Or that DCI Group counts among its clients ExxonMobil. Or that ExxonMobil gave the Tech Central Science Foundation $95,000 in 2003, for "climate change support."

The VNR features Dr. William Gray and Dr. James J. O'Brien, who are identified as "two of the nation's top weather and ocean scientists." Gray denies that there's any link between global warming and the severity of recent hurricane seasons. "We don't think that's the case," he says. "This is the way nature sometimes works." The VNR attributes increased hurricane activity to "the cycle of nature."

In reality, the link between climate change and hurricane severity not been disproved. "No one doubts that since the early 1990s storms have increased in their intensity and no one doubts that average sea temperatures have increased slightly over the past 30 years," explained Andrew Buncombe in an August 2006 article for The Independent. "Whether there is a link between these two phenomena remains unanswered."

Peer-reviewed scientific studies on the issue have reached conflicting conclusions, though an in-depth analysis reported in September 2006 found "a large human influence" on rising sea-surface temperatures, which lead to stronger hurricanes. The same month, Nature magazine reported on a position paper from federal scientists that linked intensified hurricanes to global warming; the document was reportedly quashed by the Bush administration.

The TCS Daily VNR is correct in identifying Drs. Gray and O'Brien as meteorologists with extensive experience predicting hurricanes. However, Gray appears to have an ideological axe to grind with regard to climate change. In June 2006, he told the Denver Post that global warming is a "hoax," something that "they've been brainwashing us for 20 years."


AND he is known for quoting the psycho Inhofe!..... :crazy:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/04/gray-on-agw/


Gray and Muddy Thinking about Global Warming


Anybody who has followed press reporting on global warming, and particularly on its effects on hurricanes, has surely encountered various contrarian pronouncements by William Gray, of Colorado State University. A meeting paper that Gray provided in advance of the 2006 27th Conference on Hurricanes and Tropical Meteorology (taking place this week in Monterey California, and covered here by CNN), provides an illuminating window into Gray's thinking on the subject. Our discussion is not a point-by-point rebuttal of Gray's claims; there is far more wrong with the paper than we have the patience to detail. Gray will have plenty of opportunities to hear more about the work's shortcomings if it is ever subjected to the rigors of peer review. Here we will only highlight a few key points which illustrate the fundamental misconceptions on the physics of climate that underlie most of Gray's pronouncements on climate change and its causes.

Gray's paper begins with a quote from Senator Inhofe calling global warming a hoax perpetrated on the American people, and ends with a quote by a representive of the Society of Petroleum Geologists stating that Crichton's State of Fear has "the absolute ring of truth." It is the gaping flaws in the scientific argument sandwiched between these two statements that are our major concern.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. sandwiched in between inhofe and the society of petroleum geologists.....
Gray's paper begins with a quote from Senator Inhofe calling global warming a hoax perpetrated on the American people, and ends with a quote by a representive of the Society of Petroleum Geologists stating that Crichton's State of Fear has "the absolute ring of truth." It is the gaping flaws in the scientific argument sandwiched between these two statements that are our major concern.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dr. Wm Gray will probably live to see the consequences of his shilling...
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. that "pony tail" scale is frightening!
Edited on Sun Oct-14-07 05:54 PM by leftchick
:scared:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. You're "brainwashing" our children,
gray..Al Gore is trying to educate them.

Who pays ya, gray?..always follow the ducats.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Timing in media is everything... This came to light because Al
Edited on Sun Oct-14-07 05:58 PM by glowing
was in the media getting his nobel prize... but this is a hypothesis this scientist has researched. This is what science is... testing hypothesis. The older the scientist, the more likely they are to believe we are in a cycle.. like Max Mayfield (one of the reasons I believe he was retired) was because all through 04 and 05 with Katrina, he refused to be pulled into the global warming is making hurricanes... You can base a lot of prices on global warming is causing hurricanes thing(insurance, barrels of oil, and property rates).

And in my science classes, we were taught about climate cycles. Intesity and global warming may correlate... but the cycles are a naturally occurring phenomenom. There are levels in between. Watch out on being too caught up in certain spectrums of this debate.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. the fact that this man is paid by the oil companies doesn't bother you? the fact that he quotes
inhofe, that incredibly ignorant buffoon from OK as some sort of expert? who wrote the books you are using in your science classes?
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Everything is too be considered, but the biggest thing to be considered
is his work... That is the tell tale sign of fudging or hiding behind his methods... I'd want to see his work. Plain and simple.

Truth is there are cycle... El Nino, La Nina, Hurricanes... these do come in cycles.. as do on this earth's history, tropical environments and ice ages. These are in the Geological record. Personally, I'm more interested in knowing what is going to happen when the earth reverses magnetic poles... We are so due for one, and no one has ever been alive to experience this phenomenom...but according to the geological record, we are due.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. sorry, but if his 'work" is being funded by the oil companies, it is suspect, how hard
is that to figure out and whose work do you want to see? you aren't making it clear in your response.

and yes, there are cycles. in case you have not noticed, one of the qurestions in the issue of global climate change is whether humans are speeding up the cycle.

again, I want to know who wrote your text book.

remedial english, anyone?
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. I'm past the text books... I read scientific journals. The favorite thing
is the academic science exposes... the most current findings, models, and theories.

I would want to see his research methods, modeling, and basis for theory... Like I said, a lot of the old guys are more into the cyclical theory. I had an old, old prof. in my department. His scientific studies were some of the breaking theories and modeling in ecological processes, especially in marine estuaries... He always said it was a cycle... it remains to be seen if the cycles are influenced by year to year data sets within the last 25 years. But the ladies and gents who are more Al's age are running the data sets, models, and the work... and people my age and younger are taught that these things are facts.. like laws. So, that's why I like the conferences. They are so cool.

A scientist only accepts a few things as real laws, and some even question those. Never accept the world is flat or the earth revolves around the sun... Answers are good, but a good answer leads to another question.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. do melting ice sheets come in cycles?
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Yes.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. thank you for that fact based answer!
:eyes:
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Anytime the earth's climate has experienced global climate change,
Edited on Sun Oct-14-07 07:54 PM by glowing
the surface of the earth looks different... In fact the land mass distributions have looked differently as well.... when the earth has experienced glacial recession, the ice sheets melt. So, yes it has happened in the past...

You know.. I'm wondering about the saturation of carbon in the air and the reduction of oxygen in that mix... their is a less % saturation of oxygen now than in the past.. I've heard peers wondering if that saturation will lead to more breathing problems in the future.... think China on a smog day.

Edit: Also, concerned with the increased saturation in the ocean and the increase of dead zones because of this.
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sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Does it bother you at all
that the paper cited in the OP has not been peer reviewed?
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Yes. Peer review is used to make sure that the methodology is sound
and that the stats aren't fudged with. Peer review is important. And some peer reviewed journals are better than others. I would be more interested in this research if he was at a conference and I was speaking with colleagues... I would be interested in seeing how he presented his material in front of fellow scientists, compared to a lecture hall.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Personally, I would love a large scientific climate, geology, marine,
and meteorology conference to be televised... I love these things... Guess I'm just an egg-head. But you all would get a better idea of what is happening in the science world. It would make your arguments better or educate yourself on a larger scale.

I would love to sit down with Al Gore and discuss environmental science with him... I am kind of upset at his movie. I know he wanted to reach out on a massive scale and explain things to untrained people, but I am a bit dismayed that he lost the science. Science is an ever evolving hypothesis... New discoveries will come along, and what if its a bit different than suggested, will that young graduate student be booed off the stage. I remember when the grad student came up with the model for determining a hurricane's start... We all sat there in class and said "damn, that guy's set for life".

Science needs to be taught much better in school... it is so horribly touched on.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well They Have 3 Months Of Water Left In Atlanta
and some places in NC are running out fast. Let's see what everyone has to say in a couple of months, including the eminent Dr. Gray.
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. Whew !!!
I thought you were talking about William Gray of the UNCF.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. You don't need a weatherman.......
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. To understand how Gray's 'pioneer' comparison makes him
Edited on Sun Oct-14-07 06:34 PM by Jacobin
like General Custer at Little Big Horn,

simply go back and review his 'predictions' (changed twice during each season, on hurricanes and you will understand he is merely a charlatan
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. A couple revealing remarks by Dr. Gray:
"My feeling is some of us older guys who've been around have not been asked about this. It's sort of a baby boomer, yuppie thing."

" I don't think anybody in the world understands how the atmosphere functions better than me."

HURT EGO much?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/23/AR2006052301305_pf.html
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well, his hurricane forecasts for the last 2 seasons have been WAY off.
He forecasted very busy seasons in the U.S. he was completely wrong.
He always revises them mid-season too. So much for his forecasting prowess.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. exactly
and they refer to him as some fucking weather god. :crazy:
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. Chris Mooney talks about Gray a lot in Storm World
Really a good, balanced look at global warming and hurricanes.
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Chomskyite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. Something you never hear from this bunch
They never have an answer for the exponential increase of CO2 in the atmosphere over the past century. And they never attempt to tell us that exponentially increasing levels of CO2 is NOT a bad thing. Instead, they look at other variables like sun spots and ocean temperatures.

By the way, in 2005 the sun spot cycle was in a relatively inactive stage. Yet . . .
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