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Blackwater Security in Iraq could very well be UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS.

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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 01:51 AM
Original message
Blackwater Security in Iraq could very well be UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-blackwater15oct15,0,3485346,full.story?coll=la-home-center

The designation of lawful and unlawful combatants is set out in the Geneva Convention.Lawful combatants are nonmilitary personnel who operate under their military's chain of command. Others may carry weapons in a war zone but may not use offensive force. Under the international agreements, they may only defend themselves.

<snip>

But there is debate among those studying the question. Lawyers at the Justice Department are skeptical that the contractors could be considered unlawful combatants, but some in the State and Defense departments think the contractors in Iraq could be vulnerable to claims that their actions make them unlawful combatants.

<snip>

U.S. officials have described many of the suspected Al Qaeda and Taliban affiliates it holds at Guantanamo Bay as unlawful combatants either for taking part in hostilities against the United States or by supporting the hostilities while not part of a nation's military.

By that standard, some of the private guards in Iraq and Afghanistan also could be seen as unlawful combatants, particularly if they have taken offensive action against unarmed civilians, experts said.

------------
The article also mentioned that what Blackwater has been doing could be considered a war crime.

I just think this is interesting, because if these guys are not in our uniforms, are taking offensive actions and even killing civilians- under the same law that Bush is using to keep people in Guantanamo, they would be in very, very big trouble.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Now, To Find a Judge and a Jury Uncorrupted by BushCheneyGOPCo
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Probably wouldn't be the U.S. to ring them up, and they are immune
to Iraqi law.

But an international tribunal could do it. They'd have to get them in custody, first.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Exactly, they don't seem very worried or at least they didn't when they were being
questioned under oath, that alone should worry us all, who protects them and how far does their stronghold reach out.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. I hear Belgium is nice this time of year. n/t
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good take on the armed, private forces in Iraq. Bremer's blanket immunity
for the contractors and lack of military oversight were ripe for abuse.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Bremer's blanket immunity
isn't worth the paper it is printed on.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. First of all, the Geneva Conventions (plural) do not define unlawful combatants.
Only the US, unilaterally, defines unlawful combatants.

The Geneva Conventions distinguish between lawful combatants... and civilians, including civilian criminals.

In this case, the laws of Iraq grant criminal immunity to Blackwater. Declaring Blackwater personnel to be unlawful combatants would be the same damned abuse of international law as the US has wrongfully engaged in.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. "Iraq's" grant of immunity was forced upon the country by an occupying
force which had invaded it illegally.

So much for the "laws" which grant immunity to Blackwater.

Only raw power protects them and the war criminals which pass themselves off as the Bush Administration.

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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. It's not my fault the Maliki govt is too scared to revoke the immunity.
I mean, all stuff of "do they have the power to do it" aside, they'd get a favorable hearing before the UN if they just said, we're claiming the right to revoke this law, it's extra-constitutional.

Until the Maliki government does so, those "laws" are in full force with the knowing consent of the sovereign government of Iraq.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. It's hard to take such action when you are being subjected to a
brutal occupation at the hands of a nation twelve times your size and vastly more powerful.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. All that says is that they consent because they feel they need to.
If they're not willing to take the first step themselves, they shouldn't look at 'unlawful combatant' designations for solace. Like I said, that's a definition used only by the US. It's a made-up classification.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Such is always the case in conquered nations. But the oppressors and their
mercenaries will be kicked out in the end.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. from the article it says they do...
The guards also operate under immunity from Iraqi law -- immunity was granted in 2004 by U.S. officials -- and in a murky status with respect to American laws.

The designation of lawful and unlawful combatants is set out in the Geneva Convention.Lawful combatants are nonmilitary personnel who operate under their military's chain of command. Others may carry weapons in a war zone but may not use offensive force. Under the international agreements, they may only defend themselves.
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. You are correct, the Geneva Conventions do not define unlawful combatants
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. The Author Has A Sound Point, Sir
The Geneva Conventions look with disfavor on mercenaries.

These hired guns fit neither the Geneva definitions of a signatory state's armed forces, nor of a legitimate partisan body.
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. k&r
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Chimpy McCokespoon Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
8. BlackwaterUSA is a terrorist org.

Eric Prince is worse than 10 Bin Ladens. The man is evil.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Prince should be sent to Gitmo right away.
Blackwater attacks innocent civilians, shooting them in the back as they try to flee. Iraqi insurgents plant IEDs, blowing up American vehicles. What exactly is the difference here? Just that Blackwater is "good" and the insurgents are "bad"? Sorry, that won't wash.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. thanks for the post
K&R
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
10. I hope this line of thinking is pursued
Many Blackwater folks need to either spend the rest of their lives in Jail or be executed for their war-crimes.
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Elspeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Agreed!
kick
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
13. It's interesting the argument that US is holding "unlawful combatants" in Gitmo
saying that they aren't part of a defined military...when Blackwater and other contractors status could be viewed as the same.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
17. Write your representatives and ask them if Blackwater falls under the
definition of illegal combatant.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
18. Anyone participating in a war action but not in a military uniform
may be considered to be a spy. Spys are usually executed when captured.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
19. That means no due process and that they can be tortured, right Neocons?
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. this is why the U.S. needs to recognize the jurisdiction of the ICC....
It is IMPOSSIBLE to prosecute any such case in a U.S. court. The ICC exists to remedy that situation.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. Blackwater USA is a mercenary company
Mercs are unlawful combatants, and have been cosidered unlawful for ahem... DECADES now
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. merceniaries: looked down upon for centuries
... Hessans, the Swiss, the condottieri, Landsknechten, Varangian Guard (which could be considered mercenary), and so on... social standing slightly above pond scum...

...mercenaries were notorious for changing sides if they got a better deal... and if captured, they were often treated far harsher than actual troops (think about those four mercenaries near the beginning of the Iraq mess)... after all, they were mercenaries...

(I know N.B. knows this already, but many don't)
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