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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 01:53 PM
Original message
As officer slayings rise, a new brutality surfaces
Let me preference this article by saying I am NOT a LEO basher. This article is distrubing to me there seem to be some justification here to declare war on the public. I am curious if someone else is getting the same "read".

A new brutality surfaces

The bodies of two local police officers — both shot in the head — had just been removed from the backyard. A third lay mortally wounded at a hospital with a shotgun blast to the neck, when accused killer Larry Neil White calmly emerged from his weathered frame house and offered a chilling explanation for the early evening slaughter.

"You got these guys coming to your door," White told authorities, who originally went to his home on a domestic disturbance call. "What would you do?"

Never in the 73-year history of the Odessa Police Department had an officer been fatally shot in the line of duty. Nearly as striking, says Texas Ranger Capt.

== snip ==

As of Tuesday, 60 officers had been fatally shot this year, up 54% from the same period last year, according to the National Law Enforcement Memorial Fund in Washington, D.C., which tracks officer fatalities. There already have been more fatal shootings of officers this year than in all of 2006, when there were 52 such slayings, a decline from 59 in 2005. The rate of police slayings began to accelerate in late 2006, and the trend has continued this year.

Police officials from departments across the country say they are confronting more combative suspects in situations ranging from robberies to routine traffic stops.

== snip ==

The escalating brutality has driven many police agencies, including Miami and the Orange County, Fla., sheriff's department, to provide more powerful guns to patrol officers, including military-style assault weapons. Read More ...


LEOs are an overworked group of individuals with a heighten sense of danger because of their contact with "society". And, lord knows, this is not a body count issue, yet, I can not help but notice that there were probably far more in-custody deaths than there were LEOs deaths in any given year. There have also been several high profile man hunts. Texas and Florida seems to be having this problem. Could it be we are observing "blow back" from harsh law enforcement actions?

Ignoring increases in LEO firepower to offset their perceived threat from society is not good.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. It is different from when I was growing up
then I was not afraid of cops. Now with the militarization of the police and their ability to confiscate property, swat teams used more and more often and a few horrible personal experiences ..I am afraid of them. I don't know what the answer is.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Throw in the OK to go into homes without knock & identify...
THAT alone will cause more officer deaths.

Anybody charging into a home unannounced is damned likely to be met with a shotgun blast every so many doors. In an age of more violence and stories about home invasions, cops barging in unannounced are likely to be taken for criminals barging in unannounced.*

*and in some locations, the cops can be both.

Some people will defend themselves and their homes. The no-knock rule was/is a disaster waiting to happen and keep happening.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Not unforseeable that soon there will be a case
where (1) cop enters a house without knocking and identifying himself and (2) is shot and possibly killed in a "make my day" state. Be interesting to see how that plays out. Theoretically, the "make my day" law should act as a defense for any occupant of the home.

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Already happened.
An 82YO woman was killed after shooting 2 cops on a no knock at the wrong address in Georgia, IIRC.

-Hoot
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Then they framed her? n/t
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks
I had forgotten about that incident. Do you know if this unfortunate woman's family litigated and sought damages for her death?

What I would really like to see is litigation regarding the matter at the federal appellate level. One of those two laws would be deemed subservient to the other. And the "make my day" laws arguably have a much stronger constitutional basis.

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I think they are, but, that would be in State Courts for a while before seeing any Fed appeal. n/t
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. 92YO Kathryn Johnson
Kathryn Johnston

In an attempt to justify the no-knock warrant, the Atlanta Police Department initially claimed that the police were searching for drug dealers after a police informant was said to have bought crack cocaine at Johnston's home earlier in the day. However, both a federal and state investigation revealed that this was untrue.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Empowering both sides to use lethal force is trouble
Florida has the Castle Doctrine, so homeowners can use whatever level of force deem necessary.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. A lot of bad reporting there...
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 02:24 PM by benEzra
New push to restrict weapons

Until the internal review of the officers' response is complete, Pipes says he'll hold off on making changes to department policy. Other law enforcement agencies, however, are bolstering their defenses, alarmed by the apparent increasing threat to officers.

In addition to pushing for a new ban on assault weapons, the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) wants a ban on high-caliber sniper rifles and armor-piercing handgun ammunition.

If you look at the credits in the IACP "report," it appears to have been written by the director of communications of the group that funds most of the U.S. gun-ban lobby, NOT the IACP. It appears to me that they basically rented the IACP's name to put on the report.

Scott Knight, chairman of the IACP's firearms committee, says an informal survey of about 20 police agencies earlier this year showed that since the assault weapons ban expired, departments either have increased the number of weapons in officers' patrol units or upgraded to military-style arms.

Hundreds, probably thousands, of departments shifted from patrol shotguns to small-caliber patrol carbines during the '90s and early '00's, and it had nothing to do with the expiration of the Feinstein law. It was the realization that small-caliber autoloading carbines offer much less risk to bystanders than the traditional .729 caliber patrol shotgun, offer much greater effective range, more precise shot placement, less risk of richochet, AND are easier for small-statured officers to use effectively. For example, see:

Roberts G.K., "Law Enforcement General Purpose Shoulder Fired Weapons: the Wounding Effects of 5.56mm/.223 Carbines Compared with 12 ga. Shotguns and Pistol Caliber Weapons Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant, Police Marksman, Jul/Aug 1998, pp. 38-45.

INTRODUCTION

Until recently, the 12 gauge shotgun has remained the universally accepted shoulder fired weapon for United States law enforcement use, despite the shotgun's limitations as a general purpose weapon--short effective range, imprecise accuracy, downrange hazard to bystanders, small ammunition capacity, slow reloading, and harsh recoil. While 12 gauge shotguns still have a valid law enforcement role, especially to deliver specialized munitions and possibly in close quarters combat (CQB), recent recognition of the shotgun's significant limitations as a general purpose weapon have prompted many American law enforcement agencies to begin adopting the more versatile semi-automatic carbine for general purpose use.(12) Semi-automatic carbines offer more accuracy, less recoil, greater effective range, faster reloading, and a larger ammunition capacity than the traditional shotgun.

...

Less well known is that 5.56mm/.223 rifle ammunition is also ideally suited for law enforcement general purpose use in semi-automatic carbines.(5,6). It offers superb accuracy coupled with low recoil, and is far more effective at incapacitating violent aggressors than the pistol cartridges utilized in submachineguns and some semi-automatic carbines.

...

CONCLUSION

A 5.56mm/.223 semi-automatic carbine with a minimum of a 14.5" to 16.5" barrel may be the most effective and versatile weapon for use in law enforcement. When used with effective ammunition, the 5.56mm/.223 carbine simultaneously offers both greater effective range and less potential downrange hazard to bystanders than a 12 ga. shotgun, handgun, pistol caliber carbine, or SMG , as well as far greater potential to incapacitate a violent criminal than any handgun, pistol caliber carbine, or SMG.

...

The routine issuing of 5.56mm/.223 semi-automatic carbines for general purpose use to all law enforcement officers woudl significantly enhance officer safety, increase police effectiveness, and decrease dangers to innocent bystanders in all situations requiring the use of firearms.

Notice the date--1998. USA Today's "informal survey" of a handful of departments was just lousy reporting, IMHO.

In Florida, after the fatal shooting of a Miami-Dade County officer Sept. 13, Miami Police Chief Timoney announced his officers could carry department-issued assault rifles if they completed training.

"We're seeing a huge increase in the number of AK-47s on the street," Timoney says.

Color me skeptical.

2005 data:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_20.html
Total murders............................14,860.....100.00%
Handguns..................................7,543......50.76%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....1,954......13.15%
Edged weapons.............................1,914......12.88%
Firearms (type unknown)...................1,598......10.75%
Shotguns....................................517.......3.48%
Hands, fists, feet, etc.....................892.......6.00%
Rifles......................................442.......2.97%

2006 data:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_20.html
Total murders............................14,990.....100.00%
Handguns..................................7,795......52.00%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....2,158......14.40%
Edged weapons.............................1,822......12.15%
Firearms (type unknown)...................1,465.......9.77%
Shotguns....................................481.......3.21%
Hands, fists, feet, etc.....................833.......5.56%
Rifles......................................436.......2.91%


But why Timoney may be trying to point the finger at external factors. Here is what the local media is saying about his tenure:

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2007-09-20/news/john-timoney-america-s-worst-cop

John Timoney, America’s Worst Cop

He has spent 138 days on the road in just a few years on the job. Who’s minding the Miami Police Department?

By Tamara Lush

Published: September 20, 2007

...He has trampled civil rights, from the 2003 Free Trade Area of the Americas protests to the soon-to-be-placed video cameras throughout downtown. He accepted a free Lexus SUV from a local auto dealer and then lied about it. And, according to the police union, he allowed subordinates to manipulate crime statistics to make it appear he's doing a good job.

There's also this: City cops hate him. On September 4, 520 of 650 police union members cast no-confidence votes against the chief.

All of that has been publicized. But until now, no one has talked about perhaps his greatest sin. He's the city's best-paid employee — with a compensation package worth more than $214,000 per year — but he's not around much. During four years and nine months in office, Timoney has been out of town for at least 138 days — not counting vacation. During his 30 jaunts to places like Belfast and Los Angeles, he has stayed in the Wilshire Grand and the Mandarin Oriental. Cost to taxpayers: more than $28,000.

In 2005, the year County Commissioner Art Teele shot himself in the Miami Herald's lobby and Wilma ravaged Miami, Timoney was on the road for one of every five workdays. In 2006, while killings in the city skyrocketed by 41 percent, he took off for 30 days.

The information is documented in 200 pages of reimbursement forms, hotel bills, and other receipts provided by the city in response to public records requests. And there might be much more. Trips to Iraq to study security, to tour Guantánamo, and to Oklahoma for a speech to a small-town police force aren't included in the city file. And Timoney is not required to report all absences to his superiors.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. The harshness of prison & the sentence lengths & the perceived lack of justice
have turned criminals into super-criminals.. I'm guessing that once upon a time, people thought that they would at least get a fair chance, and might give up...and now they seem desperate and willing to kill to try & get away..

It's probably the same percentage who commit the crimes but they have certainly escalated.. Did they get meaner and force the law into it too, or is it the other way around?

I do NOT support crime, but criminals are definitely getting bolder..
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. Direct, and totally predicted, result of the escalation of force started in the 80s,
and continued through to today. The replies here generally bear out that cops have been given tacit, if not outright, permission to brutalize suspects. Mandatory sentences and societal prejudice have ensured that there is no such thing as "reintegrating into society". Instead of being respected, cops are now feared by ordinary citizens.

This cycle of escalation can only lead to more of all of the above and eventually the disintegration of society at large.



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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Geez ...
If we see it coming, what can we do to stop it?
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. In over 20 years I've not found the answer to that. People, like sheep, react
to what they perceive as a threat regardless of whether that threat is real or imagined. In the 70s our society had been changed far more than many people were comfortable with, they were uneasy. Raygun came along and told them that the changes were a threat to them and he would make it acceptable for them to hold onto their prejudices and bigotry because that is "the American way", and they liked that.

They/he went on to create and reinforce a plethora of mythical "threats" (commies, hippies, welfare queens, etc.), and among them was the myth of rising crime caused by "liberal courts" and the "permissive society". Ignoring the actual reason for the slight rise in crime, the shitty economy made worse by his insane giveaway, he began the campaign of escalating brutality in law enforcement. The People, like any prey animal, reacted quite predictably by "surrendering their essential liberties for temporary security" and here we are.

We see these things coming, but most do not, so, the question is; how do you get people to take a moment and consider the consequences of an action and/or consider if/how they are being manipulated by people with a hidden agenda?
:kick:


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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Many times, I ponder that very thought ...
when people have been made to believe the improssible it's very difficult to help them. I do understand from organizations that I have observed a postive change at the top ripples throughout the org.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. So, how do we get a positive change at the top?
The gatekeepers aren't about to let any reformers get through.

After our meaningless primaries, I'm changing my registration back to independent. I'm just so thoroughly disgusted by the scum that control both parties, I'm thinking of just selling everything, loading up the Ms, & the dogs, and going to South America.

I think we are just lost and there is no hope of saving what is left of our potentially great nation.



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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Years ago, I remember learning the power of local politics
an how local movements began national movements.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Brutal enforcers of privilege. Live by the sword....
No tears here.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Cops in Florida are totally corrupt. I don't trust any of them.
The Delta squad in Sarasota Florida finally got caught planting drugs in cars so as to facilitate confiscation of vehicles and other properties including homes and boats. In Pinellas county Florida, when the Colman boys (as in good ol boys) were running the force they were also planting evidence and beating up people and leaving them out in the Ocala forest. In Largo Florida a police officer commited suicide after being caught with an under aged female who was participating in the Flordia Sherif Youth Group. The police chief also resigned after the incident. You don't want to get pulled over for any reason here in Florida because these cops approach your car with hands on their guns. In Stark prison 3 guards murdered a death row inmate who was convicted for killing a police officer and they got away with it. The same police that go to your church are the same ones who are going to beat you for protesting. I hate these big fat jack booted thug pigs.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. The rot in law enforcement in Florida starts at its head ...
Do you believe that Secretary James R. McDonough is really trying to clean up his part? I read the prison commission report about the roving "goon squads", really scary.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. another factor: this suspect, Larry Neil White, is terminally ill and had nothing to lose...
Apparently, he has cancer of the stomach, and is not expected to survive past March or so.

In other words, when he shot the policemen, he was a sick man with nothing to lose, and he knew it. He knew that he was a man without a future, and would not be around to serve a prison sentence. Being of a violent and callous nature to begin with, he saw no reason not to pull the trigger when the officers knocked on his door.




http://www.mywesttexas.com/site/news.cfm?dept_id=475626&newsid=18867525

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