Should education programs be cut so we can save Social Security?

You know, the plan gutted so we could be in our rosy financial situation today?

NT

because that is exactly what is going on and I hate that kind of thing. We can't have education *and* social security?

to. Start living on a budget like most of us do!

I can't see any situation where such a choice is necessary.

increased and the DoD budget cut in half so that we can fund those programs as well as universal healthcare and alot more social programs that we need as well as build infrastructure (trust me cutting the DoD budget in half would be able to do that and more).

Education then yes. That should be the responsibility of state, city, and local taxes. The FedGov should keep their hands out of education. NCLB is prime example of that.

that have been neglected or discarded by politicians who are owned by corporations.

I know everyone does, but a Wal-Mart workforce isn't going to pay in to social security at a level that would allow them to retire on Social Security.

(not related), I responded "Then don't offshore! Even you rich retired people want your social security too!"

Seems to be working so far.

What about all those folks?

I have to:

Pay for my mortgage
Pay for my family's groceries
Pay for my son's education
Pay for my education
Pay for a whole bunch of other shit
Spend 12 hours a day at work

PLUS I have to pay for retirees NOW
PLUS I have to pay for the disabled
PLUS I have to pay for orphans
PLUS I have to pay for the poor
PLUS I have to pay for stock losers
PLUS I have to pay $ for future $ that will not be there when I retire.

OK. Hey...I pay SS every month dutifully like every other working American my age, KNOWING that the benefit I am paying for those people NOW will not be available to me THEN. When does the law of diminishing returns kick in, again?

Who has scared you into thinking that way?

God forbid if you become disabled tomorrow, you'd be covered.
God forbid if your kids lost their parent tomorrow, they'd be covered.

And contrary to republicans who try to scare enough people to totally undermine Soc Sec, it is in good financial health, and if they don't destroy it, it will be around to supplement lots of citizens for a very long time.

edit for typo!

above and beyond SS to provide for that.

I am not scared. I am a realist: I KNOW SS will not be available to me when I retire. The math is too simple and it points to a program that is unsustainable for the long term.

Your only guarantee is Social Security. No private program is guaranteed no matter what.

And on the retire part, I think you have bought republican math and scare tactics, meant to undermine the perception of Social Security. It's a hell of a lot more financially secure than any of those programs you mentioned which are all underwritten by the stock market.

If so, I've got a bridge to sell you, brother.

If you actively invest, then you KNOW that. I've ridden it up and down for many years, in many different vehicles.

HOWEVER, Social Security is there to provide a minimum amount of income for everyone, regardless of whether they lose their ass (or IRA or 401k or pension) in the market or not.

And yeah, having done governmental accounting for a portion of my career, I'm professionally convinced of the sustainability of the program.

So, back to all those other people, unlike YOU or I, who are not so lucky -what about the current retirees, the disabled, the orphans and the poor? What about them? Or, as a society, do we just say "too bad, I got mine?" Fortunes change overnight.

Stop believing everything the RW lies about.

http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/Content/2004-12/18weisbrot.cfm"> Social Security: It's Not Broken, So Don't Fix It

By Mark Weisbrot

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That was during the 80's when they had the last social security debate. Well, now I'm 50, and its still there. I pay for my morgage too, and my grocreies, and a bunch of other shit. I have worked 12 hour days 7 days a week. I have been putting as much as I can afford into a 401k since my 20's. Guess what? I still don't have enough to retire. A year being unemployed and then taking a job for less than what I was making took care of that. And no, I didn't break into my 401k during that period.

Social Security will be around unless they do something to break it, like making it into private accounts which will bankrupt the system immediately. Does social security and medicare programs need some adjustments to them? Yes, but it is working. At least it was until * bankrupted the country. What about the people that had been saving their whole lives, and had been promised a pension when they retired, and the company did away with all pensions? Some people, mostly unions, may have taking a smaller payraise because of promises that were made having to do with pensions. What about people who worked for companies like Enron, who lost everything they had saved? SSI is not meant to be a sole source of income, it is meant to supplement your income. Unfortunately, too many people are forced to work multiple jobs and still live paycheck to paycheck because of the cost of things like food, gas, and insurance? Or the ones that have major medical bills that ruin all of their plans? Or a sick parent that needs care? Or a parent whos spouse dies suddenly? What happens if the stock market crashes?

For a government to work well, the government and the people take care of the lesser among us. Taxes pay for many things, infrastructure, police and fire departments, education, etc. I don't have kids, but part of my taxes go for education. Thats life. Your post sounds like a right wing talking point, its me, me, me. Not everybody is fortunate enough to make 6 & 7 digit salaries.

what about people who work mulitple jobs or have night shifts? Since the government is completely out of the system I guess the invisible hand of the market must deliever our salvation yet again :sarcasm:

SS needs to be preserved because people don't have the time to research investment opportunities.

You know what I did? I invest through a licensed and trained stock broker to do that for me. This isn't fucking rocket science, yano?

I also have a Stanford MBA as a husband. Our accountant saved us from the Alt Min tax twice in the last 10 years. The other years we made out REALLY well.

We are doing very well.....


Guess what 98% of Americans don't have the resources I have to determine how to invest/save.

Your argument is embarrassing.

can make super big mistakes-- or be in on a scam.

If not, look into him - he sounds right up your alley.:crazy:

That is what * & Co are selling to the country but the truth is is that it is NOT broken!

Instead let's move to an all volunteer national defense force with the same proviso as the Japanese self defense force.

IE, no off shore adventures.

Then, let's divide the military intel budget to create the mother of all education, health, and security systems, and demand the same from anyone who wants to trade with us.

If anything should be cut it's a totally opaque and bloated military budget. We have no primary state military opposition and thus no need for all the big budget items like Osprey's, ACBM defense shields, ans all the other war industry support.

Why not the billions we are spending on an illegal war in Iraq for starters?

deep, to the bone, cuts. It is a thoroughly useless black hole that has destroyed our nation.

You're drinking the Kool-Aid. We've already put it the money. Don't let them spend it on wars.

It's ridiculous how much we're spending.

We can use the money for SS, universal health care, AND education.

Sounds like the RW gremlins are at it again! Trying to stir up
trouble and anxiety because it's getting closer to Election Day! :grr:

If you take away education you get a workforce who's earning potential is less and less. That means they contribute less and less to the pot. We need people getting more education so companies stay here and those employees will have more to contribute.

Education is the most important investment a country could make, Social Security is a doomed Ponzi scheme.

Who says you have to cut education or anything other than the bloated defense budget to save Social Security? Build the middle class and get rid of those Bush buddy tax cuts, and both can be kept solvent for years to come. He squandered the surplus already though. Now, we are screwn!!!11!!

Sorry, Toad, that poll is just fucked up. Cut neither. Save both. No backing down. :shrug:

From everything I have there is no reason to cut any programs in order to solve the Social Security Problem. Even when some of the right-wingers are confronted on the issue they begin backing off of the talking point that Social Security is broken. I listened to a debate, on Democracy Now, between the guy who was on CBS Nightly News last night and a more liberal economist. When the guy was push he mainly said the same thing the liberal economist was saying. The conservative economist actually admitted there really was not a problem with Social Security. He mainly stated that, yes, Social Security would have a great deal of money far into the future.

and poor labs and other facilities.

...dead simple...turn the faucet off..and fund everything else..PLUS a beefy surplus...

This country spends more on military expenditures than the next 15 countries COMBINED....time to re-work the priorities...