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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:38 AM
Original message
Birth Control Allowed at Maine Middle School

By JOEL ELLIOTT
Published: October 18, 2007

PORTLAND, Me., Oct. 17 — The Portland school board on Wednesday approved a measure allowing middle-school students to gain access to prescription birth control medications without notifying parents.

The proposal, from the Portland Division of Public Health, calls for the independently operated health care center at King Middle School to provide a variety of services to students, including immunizations and physical checkups in addition to birth-control medications and counseling for sexually transmitted diseases, said Lisa Belanger, an administrator for Portland’s student health centers.

All but two members of the 12-person committee voted to approve the plan.

The school principal, Mike McCarthy, said about 5 of the school’s 500 students had identified themselves as being sexually active.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/18/us/18portland.html?ex=1350360000&en=7fb352244936243a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

My first response is; what the hell? Only 5 out of 500 kids identify as sexually active. And somehow I can't see dispensing birth control to a 12 or 13 year old, in school, without parental consent.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Would you rather they take a chance on getting pregnant?
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 10:41 AM by pnwmom
Or end up in the office asking about abortions?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. It doesn't seem as if the risk was terribly
high in this school, but in any case, yes I have a problem with a school dispensing birth control to 12 and 13 year olds without parental consent. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think that's it.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. It's likely the 14 year olds and even 15 year olds (there are always some in MS)
who are among the sexually active but I think if a younger student is old enough to get pregnant, she's old enough to get birth control.

And if a 12 year old IS sexually active, it's also likely that there is something wrong at home -- alerting the parents might be the worst thing to happen.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. First of all, there are few 15 year olds in 8th grade.
This is, I believe, 6th thru 8th. But more importantly as another poster said, kids that age are not responsible enough to deal with taking the pill regularly. Condoms are a better idea.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. How do you know they're not being advised to use both?
That's the best advice, to get the highest degree of protection from both pregnancy and disease.

And there are only 5 kids involved in this. They easily could be all 14 or 15 year olds, but again, what is the big difference? There are plenty of 14 year olds in high school who would have access to birth control. Why not 14 year olds or even 12 year olds in middle school?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. It's a prescription drug available to young children
who are medically recognized as being a population not capable of complying with the rigors of taking a pill regularly.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. You're assuming the nurse isn't evaluating this on an individual basis.
I'm assuming she is.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. I'm assuming the nurse isn't watching each child swallow her pill
everyday.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. Plenty of middle schoolers are mature enough to do that every day.
And the nurse should evaluate their motivation and ability to do that.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. That's baloney. A majority of kids that age
do not have the maturity to adhere to taking a pill every day. In fact there's a significant failure rate amoung adult women.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. It's up to the nurse to make an individual decision based on the student.
Whether the majority can or cannot is not significant.

They're are only 5 girls involved at this point!
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #50
86. And they've got the maturity to adhere to parenthood?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. If the kid doesn't have pills, she won't swallow them any day.
The potential lack of compliance strikes me as a really silly argument for denial of treatment.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. it's not mere speculation and bc pills in this situation
aren't treatment.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
64. In CT kids can get treatment for STDs without parental consent.
I would prefer my kids talk to me first, but if they feel they just can't I would perfer them getting the bc.

This could mostly be solved if parents would take the lead in being their kids sex educator. It should be presented in the context of the family's own values and it should be medically accurate. Unfortunately, that is beyond some parents' ability to do. Sad, really.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, only five have identified themselves as sexually active.
Who knows how many don't identify themselves.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Mixed feelings on this one. I would support passing out condoms, but the pill?
That requires a prescription and the parents really must be involved in that. What's the difference between that and the school proscribing your child Xanax or some other drug? None.

This is not about abortion and the right to choose. This is a school board stepping into the role of medical adviser to children that aren't theirs. They made the wrong choice.

Note: this is my school district and the school mentioned is one block from me.

(this post copied verbatim from the matching thread in the Maine Forum)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. That sums it up well.
and that's exactly what troubles me.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Additionally, passing out the pill is probably riskier to this age group than passing out condoms.
The pill requires discipline to be effective and even then, does not prevent STDs. The condom can be effective 'last minute' and does prevent STDs. Children (which they are) are not good at the discipline needed for the pill to be effective. The school may inadvertently be promoting pregnancy and STDs by not restricting family planning to the condom.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
65. How do you know they're not advising the pill WITH condoms?
That combination is the one that provides the best protection against pregnancy and STD's.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. So a parent should be able to deny their child birth control?
How about penicillin? blood transfusions?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Pitiful that you can't see the difference.
Antibiotics and blood transfusions are not the same as the pill.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. They're all medicine.
Something that both the doctor and the patient want.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Where did you pull that crap from?
Condoms are birth control.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. So are birth control pills.
Do you think schools should need parental consent to get condoms?
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I see you didn't read my post before responding, but to be clear: condoms OK.
Dental dam? OK.
The pill? NOT OK.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yeah, yeah.
But you haven't given a good reason why.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. Actually I have.
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:03 AM by mainegreen
Condom and Pill: both birth control.
One is a prescription drug, one is not.
One requires daily discipline to be effective, one does not.
One has medical implications, one does not.
One prevents STDs, one does not.
One should involve parental consent if given to children, one should not.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. I meant a good reason.
"Condom and Pill: both birth control."

You aren't suggesting condoms are an adequate level of birth control, are you? Because that would be, ironically, a junior high level of sexual naivete.

"One is a prescription drug, one is not."

And? The kid will still need a prescription.

"One requires daily discipline to be effective, one does not."

Condoms don't require discipline? My goodness.

"One has medical implications, one does not."

And? Again, there will still be a doctor involved.

"One prevents STDs, one does not."

Yeah, and blood transfusions don't protect against STDs either. I still don't see why a parent should be able to deny one.

"One should involve parental consent if given to children, one should not."

Yeah, but why? If a kid is fucking her boyfriend, and she wants the pill, and the doctor says sure, why should a negligent parent be able to say no, she can't have one?



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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #38
49. My reasons are better than yours.
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:18 AM by mainegreen
You aren't suggesting condoms are an adequate level of birth control, are you? Because that would be, ironically, a junior high level of sexual naivete.
That statement is foolish flamebait.

And? The kid will still need a prescription.
Schools proscribing proscription drugs to children without telling the parents? You don't see the problem with this? Wow. Let's see how you feel when they give your kid lithium because they're sad without telling you.

And? Again, there will still be a doctor involved.
Without the parent. I am fully opposed to the school playing doctor with your kids without your consent. And no, I am not against children being allowed to get abortions without parental consent, before you try and make that foolish analogy.

Yeah, and blood transfusions don't protect against STDs either. I still don't see why a parent should be able to deny one.
That statement makes no sense when you think that about the safety of the blood supply and the emergency nature of a situation that would require a blood transfusion vs a child in the nurses office and the nurse having the choice of reaching for the basket of condoms vs a prescription pad, does it now?

Yeah, but why? If a kid is fucking her boyfriend, and she wants the pill, and the doctor says sure, why should a negligent parent be able to say no, she can't have one?
Without parent consent? She can still get condoms.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #49
67. Are you also against this clinic giving out the morning-after pill (which is a
a form of contraception.)

Why should a teen be able to get an abortion without parental consent but not be able to get a prescription for birth control?

Do you not understand that the failure rate for condoms is much higher than for the pill -- and the best prevention involves using BOTH?
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #67
80. nt
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 12:41 PM by mainegreen
Wrong post, wrong spot.

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #49
85. ...
"You aren't suggesting condoms are an adequate level of birth control, are you? Because that would be, ironically, a junior high level of sexual naivete.

That statement is foolish flamebait."

Why? Are you not arguing that condoms are good enough

"And? The kid will still need a prescription.
Schools proscribing proscription drugs to children without telling the parents? You don't see the problem with this? Wow. Let's see how you feel when they give your kid lithium because they're sad without telling you."

The school isn't prescribing it, the medical professionals coming to the school are the ones prescribing it. And no, I don't see a problem with it. Medical professionals are certainly better at medicine than parents.

"And? Again, there will still be a doctor involved.
Without the parent. I am fully opposed to the school playing doctor with your kids without your consent. And no, I am not against children being allowed to get abortions without parental consent, before you try and make that foolish analogy."

So wait, abortions are OK, bcp aren't? How does that make sense to you?

"Yeah, and blood transfusions don't protect against STDs either. I still don't see why a parent should be able to deny one.
That statement makes no sense when you think that about the safety of the blood supply and the emergency nature of a situation that would require a blood transfusion vs a child in the nurses office and the nurse having the choice of reaching for the basket of condoms vs a prescription pad, does it now?"

Denying somebody birth control doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. It seems the equivalent of Jehovah Witnesses who deny their children blood transfusions.

"Yeah, but why? If a kid is fucking her boyfriend, and she wants the pill, and the doctor says sure, why should a negligent parent be able to say no, she can't have one?
Without parent consent? She can still get condoms."

So if she can get condoms, and she can get abortions, why the hell shouldn't she get bcps?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Why is the pill okay for a 9th grader in high school
but not for an 8th grader in middle school?
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. It's not ok for the school to give it to either without talking to the parents.
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:02 AM by mainegreen
At least I don't feel it's ok. If I absolutely *must* draw an arbitrary age line, I'd draw it at 16.
Or maybe 17. 16.5?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. High schools are doing this all over the country. It's nothing new.
And it's a big part of why pregnancy rates are down.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. Pregnancy rates were way down in Maine without this, and this is not high school. n/t
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #51
58. They're way down in Maine because of this -- in high school.
And the likelihood is that the 5 girls who need this in middle school aren't that much younger than girls who need it in high school.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
87. Yes indeed.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a low
teen-pregnancy rate might be DUE TO good information
and birth-control availability.

Claiming it's "not necessary" is like saying a diabetic
could throw away their insulin because their blood sugar
has been regular for awhile. :silly:
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. Yes, there are definite pluses and minuses to BCP
and potentially serious health implications. I'd be concerned that the overall picture (of the patient) wasn't being sufficiently examined. Family health history, personal health history, etc.

I understand where they're coming from, and I do absolutely agree that barrier methods should be available, no questions asked. But this is another whole step.

What's being done (not just here, across the board) to help parents develop the kind of relationship with their kids so that parents *are* involved? We've always been very open with our teen, and that's returned. Educating parents might help in this as well.
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. I would prefer my daughter talk to me
but for god's sake if she's having sex and doesn't want to talk to me I want her getting birth control some other way from some adult with medical knowledge. I don't want her fear of talking to me to lead to her getting pregnant.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. The pill is a prescription drug
What right does the school have to dispense a prescription drug without notifying the parents of a 12 or 13 year old. As someone else said, condoms are one thing, the pill is another.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. What is so different about the medical risk of a 13 year old in middle school
vs. a 15 year old in high school?

If one can receive birth control without a parent's permission, why not the other?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. delete
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 10:54 AM by Bornaginhooligan
wrong spot.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. How about an 11 year old. This school has 6th graders.
And lines are drawn all the time. Drinking, voting, driving, etc. It's just the way things work.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. In this case, the logical place to draw the line is after elementary school,
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:02 AM by pnwmom
because that is when most girls reach puberty.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. I couldn't disagree more. n/t
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. Would the logical place be menarche?
I think if a woman's old enough to be pregnant, she should be old enough to choose her own birth control options.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. Kids know when it's safe to ask Mom and Dad for birth control
and when it is not. They know their parents better than anyone does.

Do you know what happens to a 12 year old body when it becomes pregnant? Do you know the physical consequences of being forced to give birth by the type of parents who freak out about a 12 year old having access to birth control?

Educate yourself. Please.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. Exactly. And a 12 year old who is risking getting pregnant
may have other serious problems -- at home.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Are you kidding?
Some kids don't know at all and some kids already know the answer will be 'no'...even if they're older such as 16.

Sadly enough, I've seen 12 year old girls give birth and the physical consequences are no greater than if they had been 25 years old in most cases.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. If a girl hasn't fully developed in size the consequences can be serious. n/t
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. Pregnancy is usually serious in most women...
the two greatest concerns for this age is the underdeveloped pelvic region where if there is obstruction then a c-section is done. The other is the lack of pre-natal care due to not telling the parents about the pregnancy.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
57. You seriously don't know what you are talking about
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:22 AM by Warpy
because the incidence of peri and post natal complications like fistula skyrocket when the mother is under 16, not to mention the stress on developing systems like bones, muscles, kidneys, heart.

Then there are the emotional consequences.

A child who has decided to start exploring sex has already taken the biggest step---WITHOUT PARENTAL APPROVAL---already. If she is responsible enough to protect her own health, then she should be given access to birth control with no questions and no parental notification.

The consequences of not doing so are dire.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. I'd say they are more dire if someone is dispending these kids...
prescription medications without doctor's approval. Given all we know about the complications that birth control pills can cause I think it's safe to say that giving them out without a pelvic exam and a physical is just plain irresponsible. I understand the school's need to protect these kids and their helping them to protect themselves, but it seems to me it's a hurried response to a complicated problem when it comes to kids this age. Where is the counseling? Where is involving the parents? When is it okay to hand out pills to kids who are making adult decisions about their bodies without telling the parents their child is at serious risk? High school kids...I'd be more okay with, but we're talking about 12 year old girls. No way are they even close to the same level of maturity, responsibility or comprehension, IMO.

I've got girls. One is 23 with her own kids and the other is 17 so I've been down the road before. I also have a mom who refused to give me birth control. I spent enough years in the medical field to watch young girls having babies along with their distraught parents. Most of the parents I met all pretty much said the same thing 'I didn't know. If I had it wouldn't have been like this'. For whatever reason, whether it's rightly or not, these girls did not go to their parents and if a school is going to take something like this on I'm of the opinion that if they discover a 12 year old girl is going to become sexually active for whatever reason that's when the parents need to be brought in...along with a family counselor.

Just because a kid at this age is exploring sex doesn't mean they should be allowed to continue on if it can be helped. We all know that if a kid wants to have sex bad enough they're going to do it anyway no matter what. The very least we can do is to be socially responsible enough to provide more than just birth control pills and send them on their way. 12 year old kids? No way.

Oh, and I've watched kids this age give birth and it is tragic, but in most cases they've done just fine. The few that had problems were because the pelvic bones hadn't developed enough to accomodate giving birth. That's when a c-section is necessary.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #60
71. They're not just handing out pills. This is a county health center
which has a clinic at the school, and that clinic offers a range of health services including physical exams and immunizations. As with the clinics at the high school, I'm sure they provide the same exams and counselling that they would provide for anyone at a county health clinic -- they would be liable if they didn't, but that's a whole separate issue.

Why are you assuming they're just handing out pills and sending them on their way? There's no indication of that at all in the post.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #60
91. Again, in this instance, the need for control is blinding people
to the risk/benefit part of the equation.

It is extremely risky to ignore these children.

It is extremely risky to prevent them from seeking help in protecting their health because parents need control and authorities will have to "rat them out" to mom and dad.

It much less risky to give them the knowledge and equipment to protect themselves from the horrible consequences of juvenile pregnancy.

Don't forget, we're talking about CONDOMS here in most cases.

Personally, I think they should be given out on lunch trays, as someone accused Jocelyn Elders of proposing.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
16. I'm torn on this...
on one hand if kids are going to opt to be sexually active they need to be able to protect themselves. Many of them will be too afraid to go to their parents.

On the other hand, I'm not keen on birth control pills being handed out without a physician's say so. There are too many factors that can result in health problems for the kids.

As a mom, I sure do not want someone handing my kids pills without my knowledge. I'm also bothered by the ages, too. My girls were twelve years old when I began talking to them about sex, birth control and all that. They were still playing with dolls, too.

There is a lot more going on, IMO, if a 12 or 13 year old kid is having sex. At such an age, the kid is at serious risk and that should rank high on their list of concerns as well, IMO.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. Big reason I think the schoolboard did this: the school has a large % of Somali children.
They are not getting any talk about this at home. None at all. The Somali parents around here don't seem to realize how Americanized their kids are after 1 generation. Knowing the people on this school board, I'm sure that was their reasoning. Flawed reasoning IMHO, but that's why I think they did it.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Maybe it'll force parents to have a serious discussion with their kids...
about sex. As we all know some parents don't do it and maybe this will compell them if they're against it enough. :shrug: Just being hopeful, I suppose.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #31
44. Another possibility is that they'll arrange for little genital mutilation (FGM).
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:29 AM by pnwmom
Either with a willing practitioner here or by taking them back to Somalia for a visit. This is a real risk -- hospitals and doctors in my area get requests to do this.

There is a good reason for those girls NOT to want to involve their parents in their sexual decisions.
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
22. The point here is that some parents don't even want to deal
with this issue. They don't want to talk to their kids about sex, let alone birth control.

Now, I have a problem about this school passing out the pill or patch (shown to cause certain cancers), but definately the condom. More education on sex, society and the consequences of your actions would also be appropriate.

Current day reflects just how out of touch the Repukes are: against birth control, against abortion, but at the same time, don't give disadvantaged parents the help they need to have health insurance for these children that the Repukes so desperately wanted born into this world.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
28. They should hand out hangover meds, needles, and matches for smokes as well
We know they will drink and smoke and take drugs :)
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #28
59. And that would protect them from the dangers of smoking or drinking -- how?
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. If they are going to do it we may as well make it safe, like a smoking zone at school
so they don't have to sneak off somewhere and risk getting hit by a car. And by handing out needles (and even drugs) we make it safer for them to do it without spreading a disease or getting shot in a drug deal.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. Smoking zones at school don't make kids safe.
The analogous situation would be setting up sex zones at school.

:shrug:
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #72
90. Give it time :)
The idea is that 'kids will have sex, even if we tell them not to' so let's make it safer (but not totally safe - the pill won't stop STD's).

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JoDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
35. The pill is a prescription drug
for a reason. There are side effects that can range from the annoying to dangerous (blood clot risk). Also, many doctors will not write a prescription for the pill unless the woman has had a full pelvic exam within the last year. The reason for that is simple and sensible--if a woman is old enough or sexually active enough to need the pill, she also is old enough or sexually active enough to require an exam. It is still the best way to detect cervical cancer, STDs and a host of other medical problems. By linking the pill to the exam, doctors encourage women to get an exam they might otherwise avoid.

If these girls are sexually active enough to fear pregnancy, they need to have regular exams. Will the school be providing those as well? Also, the pill is not a one-size-fits most proposition. The formula that works best with the lowest amount of side effects for one woman may not be the optimum formula for another. So is the school going to spend the money to stock a variety of pill formulas? And what about the boys? Will they be able to get STD screening? And will the school dispense the pill "no questions asked", or will they actually ask the girls about their sexual partners, to make sure these children are not the victims of abuse or rape?

It seems that the school is going for a quick, splashy answer that is going to lead them into a very thorny situation.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #35
53. High school nurses have been offering birth control prescriptions for years.
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:27 AM by pnwmom
All of your objections would apply to that situation, too. In any case, these prescriptions are being offered at a clinic that offers physical exams and other medical care.

"The proposal, from the Portland Division of Public Health, calls for the independently operated health care center at King Middle School to provide a variety of services to students, including immunizations and physical checkups in addition to birth-control medications and counseling for sexually transmitted diseases, said Lisa Belanger, an administrator for Portland’s student health centers."

High school birth control has contributed to a significant drop in pregnancy rates among teens. Should we roll back the clock to the days before high school nurses could give out prescriptions for the pill?
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
45. 1% admit to being sexually active...
A larger percentage are not telling the truth.

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
54. I know for a FACT that middle school kids are having sex. One girl from my son's 8th Grade class
went into her freshman year pregnant.:( It's a known fact they are having sex. I think this is a great idea. I'd rather they have birth control and condoms than to get pregnant or contract AIDS. I'm getting ready to buy my son a box of condoms. I offered him a demonstration on how to use them (banana and condom) and you should have heard him!:rofl::rofl: Funniest reaction EVER!:7 He did let me expound on not letting a girl with long fingernails put a condom on for him...his ears perked up. He must not have heard that one before. I also told him I want to show him penises that are diseased from STDs and he REFUSED to look. I'll get him to look someday.;) Better safe than sorry, I say. Kids need ALL the info and all the options available to make the right choices and to do the right thing where sex is concerned. Birth control and condoms should be readily available for kids, IMCPO.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
55. "without notifying parents "?? -- That's not was reported on my news!
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:25 AM by Breeze54
My understanding is that they have an in-school clinic that
will take care of the kids WITH permission from the guardian.

============

School Committee increases access to birth control for middle schoolers

http://news.mainetoday.com/updates/017349.html

The Portland School Committee voted Wednesday to allow some pupils at a middle
school to get birth control pills and patches at the student health center.

The proposal, offered by city health officials, makes King Middle School the first
middle school in Maine to make a full range of contraception available to students
in grades 6 through 8, according to the state Department of Health and Human Services.

The board voted 5-2 for the proposal. Three student members of the school committee,
representing each of Portland's three high schools, also voted "yes."

Chairman John Coyne voted against the measure, saying he felt providing the birth control
was a parental responsibility. The other "no" vote came from Ben Meiklejohn, who said the
consent form does not give a clear enough definition of the services being offered.


Opponents who spoke at the public meeting cited religious and health objections.

Condoms have been available since 2002 to King students

who have parental permission

to be treated at its student health center. Now those same student will have access to prescription methods.

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #55
61. That's very reasonable to me! With parental permission only from a CLINIC.
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:41 AM by in_cog_ni_to
Can't argue with that.:thumbsup:
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #61
74. So you think girls should be able to get abortions without parental permission
but not birth control to prevent one?
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
62. Condoms yes; birth control pills, no.
The pill doesn't protect from STDs -- ONLY people in monogamous relationships should use it as their only method of birth control. Kids? Nope.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. They already have access to condoms and are taught how to use them.
Edited on Thu Oct-18-07 11:53 AM by Breeze54
It's a win-win.

If it prevents teen pregnancies and disease? Then YES!!

If you think kids in the middle schools aren't having sex, you're out of the loop.

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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Condoms are great.
I came of age during the first big AIDS crisis. I'm all over the banana lesson.

But middle schoolers are very young, and, IMHO, not mature enough to use the pill properly. (Of course, they're not mature enough to have sex, but I know they're having it, or some are, anyway.) It's just not a reliable form of birth control for them (I, for one, was conceived while my young mother was on the pill). I don't think children should be on ANY medication except under the supervision of their parents. I wouldn't want the school handing out antibiotics, either.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. The School Health Center distributes the prescription drugs!
The nurse handles it!

The pill is much more reliable than a condom!!

But no birth control is 100% anyway.

The kids ARE under the supervision of their parents!!

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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Do the parents get the prescription?
My doctor would never give my kid his prescription for his allergy medicine -- it goes through me.

Preventing AIDS and Hepatitis C is even more important than preventing pregnancy; the pill does not do this, while condoms do both.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. I'm sure there are laws regarding that! My son couldn't pick up his prescriptions either as a minor.
I had to show ID and then, at one time, I gave the prescription to
the school nurse, who then monitored him taking it every day at noon.

That's typical of all schools, I believe.

And the nurse also needed a note from me and the doctor.

Everything was on the up & up.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #70
77. Why should a teen be able to get an abortion without parental permission
but not the method of birth control that is the surest way to prevent one?

But, to be clear, I hope they're recommending both condoms and the pill or another form of contraception, to be used together.
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #70
93. Hep C isn't a sexually transmitted disease but Hep B is.
I've never seen any proof that it is sexually transmitted.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #62
75. Condoms yes, pills, yes. Condoms alone don't provide the same pregnancy
protection the pill does; and obviously condoms are needed for STD's. The best medical advice, which these girls are entitled to receive, is to use condoms along with another form of birth control, which is often the pill.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
73. Crap, that story left out one important detail: parental consent is needed to visit the clinic.
What a cute detail to leave out.
So in essence this doesn't do diddley-bubcus. Children of enlightened parents will get birth control, children of those that aren't, wont.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. The NYT's need to be sent a letter!! They're lying!
I agree with you, and thought the same thing. They omitted a HUGE detail! :grr:
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. When are these journalists going to be called out for false reporting?
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. Media Matters calls them out all the time but that
shouldn't stop you or I from writing them a letter of complaint either! ;)
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. Your absolutely right, they attempt to demeen media matters every chance they get...
I guess here lately people are getting tired of complaining by writing constantly but what I believe is that it doesn't take that much time and the moment we stop is the moment they have been waiting for, nothing worth fighting for is ever easy nor does it always get quick results.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. Thanks, mainegreen. It's been an interesting discussion anyway. n/t
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Lively.
I like lively discussions. They always help one clear up how one really thinks about things.
That's the beauty of GD.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
81. To be honest with you I think this is an issue that needs addressing, far too many
parents are unwilling to believe that their children would dare go against their demands not to engage in sexual activities and the long and the short of such often leaves the child and I do see someone that young as a child feeling as if they have no where to turn and without having someone to confide in and help them out, the end result is not always what they might have envisioned.

Heck even adult minds thrive on the same mantra "It couldn't happen to me"

I think its very responsible since their are medical personal to aid these children and I have no doubt they are given information and knowledge about what can happen when someone becomes sexual active. Like it or not not all parents can deal with discussing sex with their children.

I tried being more open with my daughters because my mother was one of those that had a hard time discussing this with me, in her eyes even talking about it was admitting to wanting to behave in nothing less than sluttish behavior, I recall trying to talk to her and she began ranting and raving that if I had sex the whole neighborhood would find out and call me a whore her words I swear.

I'll never forget that, crazy.

Even if only five out of five hundred kids are engaging in sex, such numbers don't matter, at least those five will be safe from getting pregnant or perhaps getting a desease...

Though I tried to keep my daughters as pure as the driven snow for as long as I could since I didn't want to see them grown up so fast it does happen, I remember when my daughter came to me, after, sheesh, I thought I could take it, I didn't handle it very well, I ranted and raved and cried and was depressed for a good week. But at least my daughter did not get pregnant until she was of the age to get married.


My take, it isn't hurting anyone and in the long run it can help save a young child from entering into a world that their parents are not old enough or mature enough to help them deal with it all.

My opinion only.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
84. 17 pregnancies in 3 middle schools (not counting miscarriages or abortions)
in four years led to this decision.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iVGnJMjw7hzjRGVQ_yviGL9GR2Cw

Students need parental permission to access the school's health center. But treatment is confidential under state law, which allows the students to decide whether to inform their parents about the services they receive.

SNIP

Portland's three middle schools reported 17 pregnancies during the last four years, not counting miscarriages or terminated pregnancies that weren't reported to the school nurse.

SNIP

King is the only one of the three schools with a health center, primarily because it has more students who get free or reduced-price lunch, said Lisa Belanger, who oversees Portland's student health centers.

Five of the 134 students who visited King's health center during the 2006-07 school year reported having sexual intercourse, said Amanda Rowe, lead nurse in Portland's school health centers.

SNIP
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Feron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
89. 17 years ago when I was in the 6th grade..

some of my classmates were already dating and sexually active. Unfortunately sex ed wasn't until the next year in jr. high.

Yes ideally parents would be informed ,but unfortunately there are situations in which that isn't possible.

And yes I think that 12 years old is entirely too young to have sex. However society isn't ideal and it happens. I would much rather these kids have an adult to guide them in absence of a parent rather than pretend it isn't happening and leave these kids to figure things out on their own.

Furthermore if a child is being abused, it can be another opportunity for disclosure.
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