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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:38 PM
Original message
Poll question: Disappointed in Nancy Pelosi so far as speaker?
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Mutineer Donating Member (659 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nightmare? More like fuck-up
or is that suck-up (to the GOP)?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yeah, a nightmare.
I once had a nightmare that dems regained power, but didn't do anything with it. Looks like it came true.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Nightmare is a bit extreme. Nightmare to me would be no investigations, no opposition of torture
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 07:43 PM by jpgray
No attempts to halt belligerence or expansion of the Iraq war, no support for habeas corpus, etc. Now they have been -disappointing- on all these fronts, but it could be much, much worse. Bush and the GOP have a lot of legislative goals they simply aren't able to effect, and that's progress from a year ago, which was truly a nightmare.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. That's about my take too
Reid I knew from day one was a HUGE mistake- but Pelosi I had higher hopes for.

Disappointed, to be sure- but it could be worse.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Right, and I don't mean just in the realm of possibility it could be worse
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 07:52 PM by jpgray
A true conservative Democrat as speaker would be much more of a nightmare.
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. Nightmare.
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 10:24 AM by midlife_mo_Jo
I don't think she's at all inspiring and she's not effective.

What is there to like about her leadership?

Even if the republicans stop her every move, one could hope that her leadership would be an inspiration for change next election. Frankly, I think she turns off more voters than Hillary Clinton. At least HIllary "looks" real when compared to Pelosi. (Go ahead and blast me, but it's true.)

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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. You have to be disappointed with this performance. But with a tiny, fractured majority--it's tough
25% of your delegation is too scared to stand up to Bush, so your "majority" is mostly going to be toothless unless you're one hell of a leader.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. The tiny fractured majority isn't keeping her from meeting with her district
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. I guess the only stupid question is the one you don't ask...so, what is she SUPPOSED
to be doing? I am not sure how directly responsible she is for what happens or doesn't happen in Washington. It always seems to me that people here have inflated ideas about how much Dems can get done with a majority of ONE in the Senate and not exactly a huge majority in the house. Plus, the GOP is down, but she ain't out. And you have a Republican in the WH. I dunno. I guess I am not disappointed because I am not sure what to expect.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Omigod .... you mean you don't hate her????
You must be a Republican. <---- sarcasm to the extreme
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Oh shit...I am supposed to hate her, aren't I? I can never keep up with what the popular
kids are doing!!

Damn. I am destined to be an outsider wherever I go.
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. You and me at least sittin' on the same bleacher...
in the nosebleed section of the opposing team, the Democrats... hang on, isn't this a Democratic forum??? :shrug:

oh Well, at least the beer's cold! :toast:
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. If you want to use a sports analogy then just remember
fans expect their managers/coaches to perform.

And if they don't, then they should expect the fans to get restless.

The poll results don't surprise me a bit.
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. If my team doesn't "perform", I try to find out why and help them fix the problem...
I don't piss all over them and defect to the other side.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Right. Well that's interesting you would accuse
people of defecting to the other side.

Because people could easily say the same thing about you.

How does that make you feel Labors of Hercules?
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. In regard to sports teams?
Who cares?

In regard to politics: If someone were actually accusing me, it would depend on whether I actually did it or not. :shrug: (By the way, a metaphor referring to myself in an "if... then" scenario is not necessarily an accusation).
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Yea, some how I don't think you were talking about
sports when you used the word "defection." LOL
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Damn... He's onto me...
The gig is up. :evilgrin:
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. Very much so. nm
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. way to support the only people standing in the way of
the Republics completing the destruction of the country. :sarcasm:
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. 'complete destruction,' as opposed to what?
nearly complete?
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Holy Shiite!
:wow:
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I do not hate her personaly. I don't think most on DU hate her.
Most are real disappointed with her. She caved, then caved again & again. The slim majority in Congress is a lame excuse. That only Busholini can end the US Occupation of Iraq is a lame excuse. She is good with lame excuses. Most Dems on DU know what she could have & should have done. Is that a mystery to anyone now?
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Is it really a lame excuse if your nominal majority contains 25% skittish enablers?
I mean, yeah that's a failure of leadership on some levels, but even for a true progressive that would be a tough job.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
42. It is an utter failure of leadership, which is what her freaking position is
If she can't twist the arms necessary to push our agenda, then she needs to be replaced. Granted, I really don't know who would be best for the job, since it needs to be someone with a great deal of rapport with members, but still the ability to kick their asses when needed. And that can also be done in a nice seemingly grandfather way, a la O'Neil, or in the don't fuck with me or your family dies way of LBJ.

But people don't seem to understand the proper role of the Speaker anymore. The leaders of both houses in Congress are there to push their parties' agenda and ensure it is passed by their respective chamber. The leaders are NOT there just to hold press conferences and get face time for self promotion.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Hey, you get no argument from me. n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. "Nightmare" it is..
Nancy makes Speaker of the House and "Impeachment is OFF The Table"..People are still dying and getting irrevocably maimed in Iraq and Nancy's bunch Condemns Moveon for their hard hitting ad, "Or betrayus?"..

BUT, she's said she will fight to the finish to have fascistwingradio allowed to say what they want but Condemns the anti-killingspree wing. Nancy gets interviewed on Nightmare tv and says "at least they arrest homeless people, don't they?" when asked about the Peace Brigrade camped in front of her house protesting her stance on "IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE" and adding.."I don't want to hear from you freak-show suckers".

Nightmare reports..you Decide.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. If I was having a nightmare
Say, about a guy who was being tortured. And HE was having a nightmare himself....

THAT would be Nancy Pelosi.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm disappointed in her, and I think Harry Reid has been even worse....
At least the House does occassionally manage to get a decent bill passed, only to have it pissed on in the Senate.
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RebelSansCause Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. nightmare!!!!!!!
i am all for showing the president the democrats means business. do not bring the funding bills to the floor, it is very simple. force him to compromise on OUR terms, or at least much, much closer than the so-called bullsh*t compromises we have been getting.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. No. and thank you for asking. n;/t
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left is right Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. I had hoped for someone (anyone) else at the beginning
other than Pelosi and Reid. I thought they were both too weak for the job. But they got the top positions and the first 100 days were pretty exciting, so I thought I was wrong in my initial assessment. It's like the old joke: I thought I might have been wrong once...so, no she has not been a disappointment
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. has she started draining that swamp yet?
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. No, she jumped right in
and is cuddling up with the GOP gators.
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. Pelosi BIG dissapointment - Shrub & Shooter = nightmare! .. n/t
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. Merely a disappointment
Newt was a nightmare, Nancy's a lightweight by comparison.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. Disappointed? She's been 'bout what I expected
She's co-opted and weak.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
29. She came into office saying "Impeachment is off the table,"

which was just plain stupid. No Republican with half a brain would have said that. The leader should say to the reporters, "I have no plans for impeachment," and let someone else do the dirty work, then decide whether to support impeachment after the Articles of Impeachment have been drafted and it's time for a vote.

Never, never say anything you might eventually want is "off the table." Keep your options open, always.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. She said that over half a year before the 2006 elections
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. It seems that she said "Impeachment is off the table" in order
to get more people to vote in Dems for '06. She can't take that back unless 100% proof emerges of crimes commited by the Pres. &/or VP. So far, there is none. The FISA Violations do not seem to matter.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
36. I can see some people voting for her doing an okay
job, but seriously, a good job? :crazy:

At any rate, the results are quite telling.
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
37. She looks like a deer caught in the headlights
She likes smiling wide-eyed for the cameras and wearing colorful new pants suits each day so the pundits have something to chatter about, but when push comes to shove, she's not an effective leader. We need someone who can keep the Lieberman-esque elements of the party in line and mount real opposition to Bush and the GOP. Nancy ain't up to the task.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
38. Disappointment.
I would have thought that she would have done more by now, but, sadly she seems to be too weak. We, as Democrats don't have enough votes to over-ride vetoes, so maybe it's tougher than I thought.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
52. Hello.
Welcome to DU! :hi:
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. Hello.
Thank-you for the greeting.:hi:
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
39. She's done a good job.
You try herding cats.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
40. Republicans are doing everything possible to make Pelosi look bad
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 06:03 AM by Maribelle
and will campaign on the premise that it's entirely Nancy's fault that this congress has such low approval scores. This, of course, was entirely predictable from the moment Nancy was historically made Speaker. Nancy is the highest ranking representative in a house where too many truly believe women should be subservient to men, and where too many believed Rove would give republicans control ad infinitum.

What is surprising, however, is how many Democrats are so willing to fall in lock step with the corrupt republican contingencies.

In addition to being a great leader, Nancy is a remarkable woman, doing so much for this raped nation, and a prefect role model for many women struggling to get ahead.

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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #40
47. 100 % correct, repugs could care less about passing
any legislation to do anything. They only want to make Pelosi and dems look bad so than can get the majority back.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. The disenfranchised voters in her district disagree with you. n/t
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. You are obviously clueless as to what Disenfranchised Voters means. n/t
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. No she's not
She lives in Pelosi's district and voted for her. And she can tell you what a poor representative Nancy has been. So, sfexpat is far from clueless.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. Disenfranchised voters are deprived from either voting or having their votes counted n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. No, as a matter of fact, I'm not. I know down to the ground what it means.
In our case, it means a district that has been abandoned by our representative.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. A look at the disenfranchisement of Florida’s voters during the 2000 Presidential Election


Disenfranchised Voters

Disenfranchised voters are individuals who are entitled to vote, want to vote, or attempt to vote, but who are deprived from either voting or having their votes counted. The most dramatic undercount in the Florida election was the uncast ballots of countless eligible voters who were wrongfully turned away from the polls. Statistical data, reinforced by credible anecdotal evidence, point to the widespread denial of voting rights. It is impossible to determine the extent of the disenfranchisement or to provide an adequate remedy to the persons whose voices were silenced by injustice, ineptitude, and inefficiency. However, careful analysis and some reasonable projections illustrate what happened in Florida.

The disenfranchisement of Florida’s voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of black voters. The magnitude of the impact can be seen from any of several perspectives:

  • Statewide, based upon county-level statistical estimates, black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than nonblack voters to have their ballots rejected.

  • Estimates indicate that approximately 14.4 percent of Florida’s black voters cast ballots that were rejected. This compares with approximately 1.6 percent of nonblack Florida voters who did not have their presidential votes counted.

  • Statistical analysis shows that the disparity in ballot spoilage rates—i.e., ballots cast but not counted—between black and nonblack voters is not the result of education or literacy differences. This conclusion is supported by Governor Jeb Bush’s Select Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology, which found that error rates stemming from uneducated, uninformed, or disinterested voters account for less than 1 percent of the problems.

  • Approximately 11 percent of Florida voters were African American; however, African Americans cast about 54 percent of the 180,000 spoiled ballots in Florida during the November 2000 election based on estimates derived from county-level data. These statewide estimates were corroborated by the results in several counties based on actual precinct data.

Poor counties, particularly those with large minority populations, were more likely to possess voting systems with higher spoilage rates than the more affluent counties with significant white populations. There is a high correlation between counties and precincts with a high percentage of African American voters and the percentage of spoiled ballots. For example:
  • Nine of the 10 counties with the highest percentage of African American voters had spoilage rates above the Florida average.

  • Of the 10 counties with the highest percentage of white voters, only two counties had spoilage rates above the state average.

  • Gadsden County, with the highest rate of spoiled ballots, also had the highest percentage of African American voters.

  • Where precinct data were available, the data show that 83 of the 100 precincts with the highest numbers of spoiled ballots are black-majority precincts.

The magnitude of the disenfranchisement, including the disparity between black and nonblack voters, is supported by the testimony of witnesses at the Commission’s hearings. These witnesses include local election officials, poll workers, ordinary voters, and activists. Among the sworn testimony:
  • One potential voter waited hours at the polls because of a registration mix-up as poll workers attempted to call the office of the supervisor of elections. The call never got through and the individual was not allowed to vote. A former poll worker herself, she testified that she never saw anything like it during her 18 years as a poll worker.

  • A poll worker in Miami-Dade County with 15 years of experience testified, “By far this was the worst election I have ever experienced. After that election, I decided I didn’t want to work as a clerk anymore.”

  • A poll worker in Palm Beach County testified that she had to use her personal cell phone to attempt to contact the election supervisor’s office. Despite trying all day, she only got through two or three times over the course of 12 hours.

  • A Broward County poll worker testified that in past elections it took about 10 minutes to get through to the elections supervisor. During the course of the November 2000 election, she turned away approximately 40–50 potential voters because she could not access the supervisor of elections.

  • A Boynton Beach poll worker explained how his precinct workers turned away about 30–50 potential voters because they could not get through to the supervisor of elections. He was successful only once during an eight-hour period.

  • Other persons testified about waiting in long lines only to be ultimately denied their right to vote.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm

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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
41. Here are the stats on Congress's performance. They've done an excellent job.
"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric fool you. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. And post Congress's approval ratings too while you're at it
They are LOWER than Bush's.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. I just heard last night on Washington Week that that figure is misleading.
Republican numbers are far lower than Dem numbers in job approval. Also, a lot depends on how the question is asked. People tend to give Congress as a whole a low rating, but give individual congresspeople higher ratings.

And what the first poster was quoting wasn't opinions. Those are the FACTS of the legislation that has been passed or blocked. What you are quoting is a basic mass opinion poll which is probably tainted, as was pointed out, by media rhetoric.

Face it. It doesn't matter if Congress shits solid gold and cherry flavored too...people just like to hate them.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
45. I think she has done what she has had to do. (n/t)
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ThePowerofWill Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
46. Add me to the nightmare category. nt.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
51. DISAPPOINTMENT
but far from a night mare.
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
53. Great disappointment or the Greatest disappointment?
n/t
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
62. Nightmare. She is weak and ineffective.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
63. I voted that She's doing a good job
Because I think she is, she's having to work under extremely difficult circumstances, and I think she's doing the best that she can, she should be cut some slack.

Speaker Pelosi is Liberal Democrat and I'm a Centrist Democrat, sure I don't agree with her on everything therefore, but I think she's doing a good job and I wish that people would give the woman a bit more credit for the job she's doing.
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