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(Newsweek) Fareed Zakaria: The American discussion about Iran has lost all connection to reality

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 09:53 AM
Original message
(Newsweek) Fareed Zakaria: The American discussion about Iran has lost all connection to reality

http://www.newsweek.com/id/57346

Stalin, Mao And … Ahmadinejad?

Conservatives have become surprisingly charitable about two of history's greatest mass murderers.


At a meeting with reporters last week, President Bush said that "if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing (Iran) from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon." These were not the barbs of some neoconservative crank or sidelined politician looking for publicity. This was the president of the United States, invoking the specter of World War III if Iran gained even the knowledge needed to make a nuclear weapon.

The American discussion about Iran has lost all connection to reality. Norman Podhoretz, the neoconservative ideologist whom Bush has consulted on this topic, has written that Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is "like Hitler … a revolutionary whose objective is to overturn the going international system and to replace it in the fullness of time with a new order dominated by Iran and ruled by the religio-political culture of Islamofascism." For this staggering proposition Podhoretz provides not a scintilla of evidence.

Here is the reality. Iran has an economy the size of Finland's and an annual defense budget of around $4.8 billion. It has not invaded a country since the late 18th century. The United States has a GDP that is 68 times larger and defense expenditures that are 110 times greater. Israel and every Arab country (except Syria and Iraq) are quietly or actively allied against Iran. And yet we are to believe that Tehran is about to overturn the international system and replace it with an Islamo-fascist order? What planet are we on?

When the relatively moderate Mohammed Khatami was elected president in Iran, American conservatives pointed out that he was just a figurehead. Real power, they said (correctly), especially control of the military and police, was wielded by the unelected "Supreme Leader," Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Now that Ahmadinejad is president, they claim his finger is on the button. (Oh wait, Iran doesn't have a nuclear button yet and won't for at least three to eight years, according to the CIA, by which point Ahmadinejad may not be president anymore. But these are just facts.)
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Re.
"The American discussion about Iran has lost all connection to reality"


Is it any wonder that is has? The W Administration lost ALL connection to reality YEARS ago....that's if they EVER had ANY connection to reality in the first place.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I've always said these people are addicted to their own fears
They're afraid of gays, terrorists and "socialism", and thus cause themselves to find these things even where they don't exist just to justify the fact that they're already afraid of them. It's a vicious cycle.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. You make a good point
This crowd run on fear, their own fear of nearly EVERYTHING and their obsession with trying to frighten people into submission....I don't think that the latter works for them anymore, in fact it stopped working for them in 2005.

People woke up to their perverted little game already....I don't think they can pull off going to war with Iran myself, not with Iraq being such a monumental FU and still ongoing.

Then there's Russia and China of course, somehow I don't think Russia and China are going to let Iran get invaded.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. They're not the ones afraid
they play on people's fears to get what they want. There are plenty of idiots that believe in this "new caliphate" garbage, and thus are ok with what we are doing.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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neweurope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. k & r


-------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. "Israel and every Arab country
(except Syria and Iraq) are quietly or actively allied against Iran."

This is the reality behind the rhetoric. Bush-Cheney are doing the geo-strategic dirty work of other countries.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. Kick & recommend
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Norman Podhoretz
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. And a major menace. n/t
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. If you were interested in avoiding World War III,
you shouldn't have revealed CIA agent Plame.

I know what planet we're on. But which planet is Cheney on. Or Bush, but he's doing Cheney's work.


Fareed is one hell of a great guy. Bright, and able to communicate very effectively.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. If Bush is interested in avoiding WWIII, he should stop attacking
other Countries.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
11. that was a fantastic article.
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ahmadinejad will leave office within 7 months of Bush, mark my words.
He is very unpopular at home right now for good reason.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. That why Bush and Cheney are so anxious to start the war now,
before Iran can replace him with a more reasonable leader. Bush has a seven month window in which to commit what might be has final act of major treason against the U.S.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. If Iran possessed a nuclear weapon today, why would they use
it to pre-emptively attack anyone? How would they profit from that?

If they nuked Israel, the U.S. would rain destruction on them beyond belief.

Would that send a submarine to offshore N.Y. and lob a cruise nuke missile? No, there is absolutely no reason to do that.

However, if Iran had a nuke today, the U.S. wouldn't know where it is stored. And if the U.S. declared war on Iran, they could get desperate and mad enough to load up their one nuke and find a way to deploy it against some American coastal city.

I am saying that the only threat we could ever have from being nuked by Iran would be as a result of a first strike by the U.S.

Ironically, if the use of alternate today was at say 35% of all energy consumed, the crises in the middle East would simply "run out of gas" due to the drop in oil consumption. And that is likely to happen with within 20 years. So, if we could disarm Bush for the remainder of his tenure, we might avoid a destructive, dangerous and senseless war with Iran and it's allies.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. How many thousands of nukes does Iran have?
No thousands. No hundreds. No tens. Not even in the single digits.

How many thousands of nukes does the USA have?

Quite a few. Enough to level and contaminate every city in Iran and barely put a dent in the inventory.

The American public seems to forget this. Rest assured every foreign leader knows this, even Ahmenajahd.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You are correct. Ahmenajahd is more of a threat to the U.S.
than Saddam was. The entire crisis is a piece of political, business B.S.
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. "...we create our own reality."
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. Bush again proves he is the master of facile, disingenuous historical comparison
Remember how much like Vietnam the Iraq war is, which means that we should stay. :D
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. Armenia currently has a deal with Iran to take NG from Iran
(for free) and send back electricity! That's how desparate they are for new sources of power.

FYI: Armenia has its own nuclear reactor as well

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. We are living in a parallel universe
up is down, down is up - a total and complete inversion of reality. The only threatening fascist state on the planet today is the United States.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ironic
The US walks into the halls of infamy with Stalin, Mao and the others, by accusing Iran of exactly that.

Other than the oil, you have to wonder what the allure of Iran is...unless you want a a mega-block of countries you control in the mid-east.

Maybe Bush IS planning on pushing Russia to start WWIII. Putin won't hesitate if properly provoked, I think.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. I guess he does not want to enable another neocon war
too bad he didn't think this way in 2003. :eyes:
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
25. Religio-political culture...
...Sounds familiar...Hmmmmm......
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