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Sadie4629 Donating Member (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 11:37 AM
Original message
Article about the Jena 6
Anyone familiar with the case know if this is true? Were the activists too quick to jump in? Or is this just out-and-out false?

Jena, La. - By now, almost everyone in America has heard of Jena, La., because they've all heard the story of the "Jena 6." White students hanging nooses barely punished, a schoolyard fight, excessive punishment for the six black attackers, racist local officials, public outrage and protests – the outside media made sure everyone knew the basics.

There's just one problem: The media got most of the basics wrong.

*more at link

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1024/p09s01-coop.html
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. I thought it was odd to see signs saying "free the Jena 6".
Only one of them was in jail??? Where do they get "free the Jena 6"?
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Sadie4629 Donating Member (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Weren't more of the students in jail right after the beating?
Off-topic, but what a beautiful dog! A lab, maybe?
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. At the time of the protests only one was in jail.
Because he had four prior convictions.

Off topic- No, Larry the dog is a cross between an American eskimo & a beagle mix. He looks a lot like a small lab though.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good Article
Plenty of facts and information were left out of the national media blitz...

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. Actually, it's not a good article. It directly contradicts
the excuses of another Jena racist who is on the school board and who was interviewed by Amy Goodman. She interviewed two people at length. One was this guy and the other was a former administrator at the now defunct black school.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/19/1412250&mode=thread&tid=25

Looks like the town bigots didn't bother to get their story straight.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. I agree. Looks like they didn't get their stories straight.
And I'd hardly consider this guy to be an unbiased source.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. He did a great job of exposing himself and the culture.
Imho, we owe him.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. My favorite part was his description of the "Gotta-Go Store" incident...
"Myth 6: The "Gotta-Go" Grocery Incident.
On Dec. 2, 2006, Bailey and two other black Jena High students
were involved in an altercation at this local convenience store,
stemming from the incident that occurred the night before.
The three were accused by police of jumping a white man
as he entered the store and stealing a shotgun from him.
The two parties gave conflicting statements to police.
However, two unrelated eye witnesses of the event gave statements
that corresponded with that of the white male."


I love how he presents this as some sort of "he said/they said"
situation. I guess the white male was just minding his own business,
entering the store with a shotgun, when those mean black kids
jumped him and stole it? :rofl:

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Now you're just playing the race card against good Americans.
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 02:56 PM by sfexpat2000
:sarcasm:

Frankly, this thread scared the sh!t out of me.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #49
98. unfortunately, it's all so unsurprising
Frankly, this thread scared the sh!t out of me.
It's all about plausible deniability. There are a lot of people acknowledge racism is bad, they just don't want to believe it exists, so they will latch onto any excuse or opportunity to explain it as something other than what it is: "Some guy who writes for the Jena paper says the national media misrepresented it? Ah, so that explains it!"

Alas, happens all the time, even here on DU ...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. That guy on the school board that Amy interviewed
looked like someone's favorite uncle.

He never said an overtly racist word and gave "the banality of evil" a fresh illustration.


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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
60. I read the interview and miss the point.
By the way you're very loose with the label of "racist" with these people.

Break out the part of the interview you find most offensive and we can discuss that.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Which part did you miss?
The part about the whites only tree? The part about how hanging nooses is just a big joke? The part where the DA comes into the school and threatens the black kids?

The part where the black kids were subject to the adult criminal justice system but the white kids were treated as kids?

If you managed to miss ALL of that, I can't help you.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #62
84. You Know What, Though?
Even that good old boy thought attempted murder charges were a bit too much. And that's what the Jena 6 story was all about. No one said the 6 were choir boys, we said "attempted murder" was a charge that didn't fit the crime.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. And that still doesn't address the fact that white kids are kids
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 04:55 PM by sfexpat2000
and black kids are adults in the eyes of the "law".

I'm not actually enjoying running down these facts, Crisco.

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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. Bingo!
"that's what the Jena 6 story was all about"
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. the activists were exploited by a savvy sociopath and his mom
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 11:58 AM by pitohui
altho i'm from louisiana, i never heard of jena prior to this event, apparently it's a pretty small place, and i certainly can't verify this reporter's assertions BUT i do know that bell, has a history of violence, and continued to beat the other teen and kick him, with the help of friends, while he lay on the ground unconscious

this was not a good cause or a good person to take up, bell apparently has the most wonderful and most loyal mom in the world to get him media attention and defense, but the reality here is that defending bell is defending the indefensible -- i expect his mom to do this, but i don't expect, say, mayor ray nagin to travel up from new orleans where we have serious crime and recovery issues and instead grandstand in some country town where he has no jurisdiction or job to do

remember -- bell beat a boy, with the help of other boys, while that boy lay there unconscious -- that is not the kind of activity we want or need to defend in this state

he belongs in jail or prison, he does not belong walking around free to do this again, instead of consequences he has received the reward of celebrity/notoriety

my opinion only but i hope you can see why i have formed it

i don't know or care if the nooses were put up to send a message, if they were, the kids sending a hate message need to be dealt with, i would have expelled them not merely suspended them if i thought it was a genuine hate crime BUT there is a huge difference between hanging up a sign/sending a message (which is arguably protected by freedom of speech, even if we despise the speech) and tackling a boy, knocking him to the ground unconscious, and beating him with the help of other boys while he is unable to defend himself

we need to judge people on their actions, not on their skin color, and beating an unconscious teen-ager (with the help of your friends, yet!) is the act of a coward and a bully

the activists screwed up big time when they took on this "cause"

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Sadie4629 Donating Member (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Actually, if the article is totally true
I think it's real progress that the kids who hung the nooses on the tree didn't know about the history. It means that it truly is a thing of the past.

It seems odd to me that they wouldn't know, but then I'm in my (early!) 50's, and am very aware that Jim Crow was alive and well during my lifetime.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I find it absurd to think that teens in the south don't understand the symbolism
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 12:14 PM by FLDem5
of the noose.

They do have movies and stuff about it all around.

and a lot of what is presented as "facts" is no more than eyewitness accounts - and it is silly to think people in that town haven't taken sides.

Jena residents have said the town is racially divided, too - this entire article just adds to the "he said, she said" element of the case.
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Sadie4629 Donating Member (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I guess it depends on the movies they watch
Anyway, if kids understood symbolism, their English teachers would have an easier time teaching literature!
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. This Whole Country Is Divided Across Racial Lines
But it's an unsupported "stretch" to assume that it was any worse in Jena than it is anywhere else.

Ooops, accept now of course, since this incident has been magnified to the billionth degree....
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
71. It is not worse in Jena.
This is why the "activists" were there. They experience Jena incidents (unequal justice) in their lives and in their towns on a regular basis.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. if the kids truly "didn't know about the history" of the noose, I don't see that as progress at all
First, I find it quite hard to believe that they didn't know about the symbolism of hanging a noose. Beyond that, even if they truly had no idea, that doesn't mean it didn't cause a great deal of pain and anger among African-American students who understood the symbolism all too well.

I don't see that as progress any more than I would see it as progress if some high schooler in Germany was shocked--Shocked!--to find out that the swastika had a history.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. i think there is no way for us to know the truth behind that
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 12:33 PM by pitohui
the reporter discloses that his wife is a teacher at the school and i think he has to live in this (small) town and to a certain extent get along w. everyone

i have no idea why the kids hung the nooses, it is not impossible for me to believe that they did it for a racist reason and then lied, and they were certainly punished as if the school believed they'd done SOMETHING wrong other than kid around about the rodeo, altho perhaps not punished as strongly as they would be if it were not a small insular little town

i can't tell from here if there was favoritism or racism or not, i assume there probably is some racism

nonetheless, my belief is that you don't get to beat another kid while he's unconscious, and with the help of other brats piling on, and then say that you're some kind of innocent victim of racism who doesn't belong in jail

bell is a violent psychopath regardless of whether or not the white kids are racists

david duke for example is openly racist and was so in high school and college, even wearing a nazi armband, yet other kids were not allowed to beat the crap out of him -- unfortunately, it is not illegal to have nasty beliefs and ideas and even to share nasty beliefs and ideas -- it IS illegal
to beat the crap out of people while they're unconscious

the germany analogy is not a good one, in germany there are laws against the swastika and glorifying the nazis, there are no such laws in louisiana against hanging up nooses or spouting off racist bullshit -- the school can punish a kid for stirring up trouble, but the law would be limited in what it could do even if it could be proved that the kids were trying to make a racist statement

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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
70. How far in the past? There was a hanging in 2000 in
Mississippi. Black kid who dated white girl decided to end it all. And if you believe that, I've got somw WMDs for ya.
I wonder if they know about the Holocaust. Or if they have progressed so far that they do not know about the history of the Native Americans.

Progress to know nothing about American History? Or is it considered progress to know nothing about Black American History?
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Anita Garcia Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
102. How is ignorance progress?
Your reasoning is ridiculous.
Are you arguing that history is not a worthy educational pursuit?

Where did the idea of hanging nooses come from if not from the hate of the past?
And, in that vein, hanging nooses is a continuation of that hate and therefore evidence of hate in the now.

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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
68. Were you an eye witness? You KNOW that Bell and his
friends did this? According to the other eyewitness, Coach Benji Lewis, Malcom Shaw hit Barker. If you were a witness, maybe you should give a statement.


"The witness no one called
* Coach Benjy Lewis gave two statements immediately after the school incident in which he clearly states that Justin Barker was facing him when Malcolm Shaw (not Mychal Bell) struck Barker from behind. “I saw Malcolm Shaw hit Justin Barker with his right fist to the right side of Justin’s head, right around the temple,” Lewis wrote. “Justin went down face first, knocked out . . .” Most witnesses agree that a single punch knocked Barker out cold. The only adult who witnessed the punch says Mychal Bell didn’t throw it.
* In a signed statement given immediately after the altercation at the school, student Jesse Beard stated that moments after the assault Coach Manning asked him where Malcolm Shaw was."


What "cause" brought the activists here? Do you have any idea? How many of the "activists" did you talk to?


http://friendsofjustice.wordpress.com/2007/07/02/ineffective-assistance-of-counsel-what-blane-williams-should-have-known/
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Anita Garcia Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
101. Show me your "cause" and I'll show you mine?
"the activists screwed up big time when they took on this "cause""

Please, get over yourself already.

This was and is serious discrimination and racism.
What pisses you off?
Murder only?
How do you feel about the war? Is that a good enough reason to protest or take on a "cause".
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. The author of the article is the assistant editor of the Jena newspaper
I don't necessarily think that makes him an unbiased authority.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. He Already Claimed to be a journalist
What did you read into that, that he wrote for the New Yorker?

ANyways good point. You do have to look at biases.

But it's not about taking apart this article that's needed to find the truth, it's about unraveling the truth to find the truth.

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. well, the article was in the Christian Science Monitor
"What did you read into that, that he wrote for the New Yorker?"

I didn't read anything into that. :shrug: I was only pointing out in this thread that the writer doesn't write for the CSM.

"But it's not about taking apart this article that's needed to find the truth, it's about unraveling the truth to find the truth."
I'm not sure what you mean by that. What's about unraveling the truth to find the truth? And what does it mean to unravel the truth to find the truth? And why should taking apart this article not be a part of that?
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Because we make the article the prime issue
and can be side-tracked from finding out what actually happened.

This issue like many others has become very charged. People have taken sides and it's turned into a debate. Each side wanting to win.

But in the end, the truth of what happened lies in the town of Jena. ANd finding the truth is going to be one hard nut to crack.

I guess on my end, it's not so easy to dismiss the whole damn town as racists. Jumping to conclusions about white Southerners is just as prejudicial as pre-judging any other race or ethnic group. I don't form large and loose opinions on other groups of people as I don't know all of those people.

But that thought was lost on Jena. I think it's unfair.

But like I said, you do make a good point to check for biases, maybe I didn't say it as well as I should have.

Cheers.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. But the article is making truth claims
so the article is hardly tangential to the issue.

I guess on my end, it's not so easy to dismiss the whole damn town as racists. Jumping to conclusions about white Southerners is just as prejudicial as pre-judging any other race or ethnic group. I don't form large and loose opinions on other groups of people as I don't know all of those people.

But that thought was lost on Jena. I think it's unfair.

I have a hard time seeing "Jena" as the victim here. And people acknowledging that there is an absolute history of racism manifesting in the power structures of southern towns such as Jena is not the same as saying that everyone in Jena is racist. I'm not sure many people have been dismissing the whole damn town as racists.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. He's so full of it. For example. he just elides the fact that during
"integration", they shut down the black school and just bussed all the kids to the white school where they, to this day, are still made to feel like tourists at best.

He's FULL of it.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. yes, that's what integration means, all students regardless of color must attend the same school
while i agree the guy is obviously biased, this particular point isn't a very good one -- integration was necessary for the very good reason that "separate but equal" schools for blacks and whites simply doesn't work

would you instead prefer to have the black students stuck in the "separate but equal" black school forever? because that's the alternative to having kids of all races attend school together

the black only schools in many towns were in DEPLORABLE condition, they often didn't have proper heat or cooling systems, they didn't have enough books for the kids, they were not given sufficient funds to keep the buildings in good repair, they were often places starved of $$$ deliberately while the majority of funds for maintenance and books went to "white" schools

it is only logical, when children are educated together, to close the inferior, run-down, non-maintained property and put them all in the shiny, superior, well-maintained property

you can't seriously be arguing that integration of the school system was wrong and the black students would be better off isolated forever?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Go watch Amy Goodman's reporting at the link I posted.
In this case, "integration" didn't happen. What happened was the black school was closed and the black kids are second class citizens at the white school. I don't say that lightly, btw.
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Huh?
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 02:27 PM by midlife_mo_Jo
"In this case, "integration" didn't happen. What happened was the black school was closed and the black kids are second class citizens at the white school. I don't say that lightly, btw."

Yeah, but what's the point? I grew up in a small Louisiana town in the late sixties and early seventies when black kids were moved to the "white school." That was decades ago. No one in that town still think that the blacks are "second class citizens" at the white school. To this current generation, integration happened a long time ago. Yeah, there's still racism, but the "second class citizens" in the "white school" is just not a factor.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Yeah, there's still racism. But second class citizenship
is just not a factor.

Sure.
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
64. The fact that
black students moved to the formerly all white school DECADES ago is not a factor, now. It was certainly a factor in my day.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Recent history seems to disprove that. n/t
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
72. She's referring to Jena, not your town.
This was discussed by Jena residents on the Amy Goodman show.
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Integration occured decades ago
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 04:36 PM by midlife_mo_Jo
Either you go to the same school, or go to integrated schools. Right? Would it be preferable to go back to integrated schools? I brought up my town because I gerw up in Louisiana, and the schools there were integrated in the late sixties. That's decades ago.

I'm not denying racism. I just don't see the point of making this an issue, unless one wants to go back to integrated schools!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #76
85. Apparently some parts of LA were not integrated successfully.
:sarcasm:
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. IF you mean that there is still racism.
Yes.

If you mean that the blacks had to go to the "white" school....

Well, what would be the alternative?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. That's a good question.
What would be the alternative to forcing black students to integrate into white culture?

Excuse me while I :puke:
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #90
96. Yeah, excuse me while I throw up, too
after all, it's been so disgusting having to integrate my "white" culture.

:sarcasm:

What do you want?

Separate, but equal? Just come out and say so, will you?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. Those are the choices? "Separate but equal"
or pushing around black kids in a school that palpably doesn't want them?

You don't actually live in Jena, do you?
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Anita Garcia Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #87
103. The alternative:
"Whites" go to "Black" schools.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. Thanks for posting the
Amy Goodman links--I'll have to peruse them when I get a bit more time :thumbsup:
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
58. Well that's a very sophisticated point
and I thank you for it. But the impression certainly does come across that Jena is being portrayed as a racist town. Whether that's intended or simply collateral damage, is besides the point.

The actions of a few are certainly going a long way to type-cast the rest....

Racism.

Plenty of angles on this and I respect those. But this one is mine.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Jena is a racist town. They have a double standard
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 03:24 PM by sfexpat2000
for white and black juvenile offenders. Their paper defends the white viewpoint. Their DA had no problem threatening the black kids as a DA WHILE being the attorney for the school district, which is clearly a massive conflict of interest.

This thread has been educational, to say the least.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. So the whole town's Racist!?!
Wow,,, that almost sounds like,,,,, racism.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. No sh!t. n/t
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
97. to say Jena is a racist town is not the same
as saying everyone in Jena is racist. Not even remotely the same.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
89. And Yet, He Obsfuscates
What the protest of the Jena 6 was all about: a miscarriage of justice in the charges (attempted murder) that were lodged against the 6.

Battery, yes. Murder, no.
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. This was posted a couple of months ago
and it was debunked on this board.

I did watch the Congressional hearing and those claims don't match the testimony given.

The Federal Attorney did admit that the noose incident was indeed a hate crime and they choose not to file it because of the age of the white boys.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. yeah i agree
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 12:35 PM by pitohui
some of his "myths" are just "he said, she said" type statements

the article would have been much stronger if he had cut out some of the more self serving or feeble arguments and just concentrated on what actually happened before and during the beating

a case of an editor needing an editor!
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You Mean Like,,,,
the argument that "it was just a school yard fight"?

The whole case on either side is based on "he said, she said". Because at the end of the day when "he" and "she" are done "saying", in some way shape or form, they've described what actually happened.

And barring live video feed, isn't that actually all we have?
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beltanefauve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm skeptical about this one
"Myth 2: Nooses a Signal to Black Students. An investigation by school officials, police, and an FBI agent revealed the true motivation behind the placing of two nooses in the tree the day after the assembly. According to the expulsion committee, the crudely constructed nooses were not aimed at black students. Instead, they were understood to be a prank by three white students aimed at their fellow white friends, members of the school rodeo team. (The students apparently got the idea from watching episodes of "Lonesome Dove.") The committee further concluded that the three young teens had no knowledge that nooses symbolize the terrible legacy of the lynchings of countless blacks in American history. When informed of this history by school officials, they became visibly remorseful because they had many black friends. Another myth concerns their punishment, which was not a three-day suspension, but rather nine days at an alternative facility followed by two weeks of in-school suspension, Saturday detentions, attendance at Discipline Court, and evaluation by licensed mental-health professionals. The students who hung the nooses have not publicly come forward to give their version of events. "

So if this is a myth, why HAVEN'T they come forward? And sorry, I find it hard to believe that a Southern teen wouldn't understand the significance of nooses as equated with lynchings.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. they haven't come forward because another boy was beaten unconscious
i wouldn't come forward either, would you?

now i'm confident the kids are probably lying, is it really believable they don't know the story of the noose, but there is nothing to be gained and everything to be lost by coming forward and putting themselves in the public eye

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. This article is bullshit.
Go check out Amy Goodman's reporting on this.

Here is the search for "Jena 6" at her site:

http://www.democracynow.org/search.pl?query=Jena+6
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. ...
"The committee further concluded that the three young teens had no knowledge that nooses symbolize the terrible legacy of the lynchings of countless blacks in American history."

This is bullshit....imo.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Of course it is. n/t
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. If those teens that hung the nooses didn't know what that symjbolized,
then they are some dumb asshats. And if they told the authorities that, then they are lying. Why else would they put the nooses up? And why did they put them up right after the black boy asked to sit under the tree?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. It's Cr@P! If you haven't seen Amy's interviews in Jena
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 01:35 PM by sfexpat2000
go see them. She did and is doing a GREAT job of covering this story.

Hanging nooses in this country is a death threat. Period. And since no one has been held accountable, there have been copycat incidents all over the country.

I cannot believe the CSM is printing this mierda.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
51. Crap?
So the viewpoint you agree with is automatically correct, while a different viewpoint is labeled as crap. I think the writer made some solid points.

What jumps out at me is that the beating incident occurred months after the noose incident, and was against someone who had no connection with the noose incident. So I have trouble making that connection, and I'm not buying the whole "racial tension" that was ongoing for months as a cause of the beating. That's an excuse.

And I'm struck by the whole "white tree" thing. I'm curious if it really was a whites-only tree or if it was mixed. Only those who have seen the tree in action can tell us that.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I've spent a good deal of time following this story
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 03:03 PM by sfexpat2000
so there is nothing automatic about my viewpoint.

How much time have you put in? What exactly do you know about that community? Very little, judging from your remarks.

On edit: Yes, this story in CSM is cr@P.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. 4 hours and 17 minutes
Is that enough?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Sure.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #51
78. I agree with you. It doesn't seem to me that the school beating
was a direct result of the noose incident. The school incident happened two days after the Bailey boy was brutally attacked at the Fair Barn. Barker was taunting Bailey about his butt kicking which resulted in the school fight.


"A fire, a fight, and a firearm
* In signed statements, several white and black students mentioned a series of verbal altercations during the lunch hour preceding the attack on Justin Barker. The trash-talking was directly related to a fight at the Fair Barn three days earlier. On that occasion, Robert Bailey and a few of his friends were invited to an all-white student party by some of their white friends. When Robert entered the building he was punched in the face by a 22 year-old white male. In seconds, Robert was assaulted with beer bottles, punches and kicks in a virtual mirror image of the altercation at the high school three days later. The only differences were that the identify of the instigator in the Fair Barn incident was undisputed and that Robert remained conscious after the initial blow and was thus able to minimize the impact of the attack."
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. sure they're lying, SO WHAT?
i think we can be pretty clear that the kids who said they didn't know what the nooses meant are probably either stupid or lying

it still doesn't mean that it's OK for mychal bell and his buddies to beat a DIFFERENT kid while he is unconscious

bell belongs in jail and the jena 6 is just a stupid, stupid cause for people to take up

how would you feel if your child was the one beaten unconscious because he happened to be the same color as some other fuckwits at his school?

an awful lot of people seem to be easily distracted by the shiny glitter -- bell wasn't arrested beause he wrote a LTTE about how nasty it was that some white kids put up some nooses, he was arrested for a violent crime on a kid and he has been arrested for previous violent crimes also, he has a record

he is just plain a bad seed, and he should not be rewarded w. celebrity for beating another boy while that boy lay there on the ground helpless

you can argue that there is no freedom of speech on a school campus and the kids who put up the nooses should be punished, and i agree, however, in louisiana at large there is freedom of speech and even hateful speech is protected (which is how we got stuck w. david duke) - hanging up a noose or a confederate flag are considered grounds for suspension/expulsion from a school, but they are not (like it or not) jailable criminal offenses

there is no state where it is legal to attack someone and to continue beating him when you have him outnumbered and when he is unconscious -- that is a crime and usually a felony

both sides are no doubt in the wrong, but one side is in the wrong for acting like asshats as it is probably their legal right to do, the other side is in the wrong for a violent attack on an unconscious student which is never legal

if people truly can't see the difference between these two actions, then that's a little scary
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I couldn't agree more. It's just plain scary. n/t
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #30
47. What's ironic is the one kid that identified Mychal as being involved
in the fight was one of the students that hung the noose.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Well, Jena is a small town, you know.,
:sarcasm:
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
73. To actually expect anyone to believe that is an insult.
"teens had no knowledge that nooses symbolize the terrible legacy of the lynchings of countless blacks in American history."
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. No kidding, NOLALady.
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thanks for posting this. I wrote a LTTE and I hope DUers who
are familiar with this case will do the same.

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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
31. Does the noose incident excuse the assault?
I don't think it does but convince me otherwise if I am missing something.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. No, of course not. But check this out.
The white kids get handled as juveniles and the black kids get tried as adults.

What is that?

And, where were the adults in this situation?
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. What are the laws regarding putting a noose in a tree?
Racist? Yes. But from what I understand there is no law in Louisiana that prohibits it. They were punished by the school but the law apparently had no jurisdiction in the matter. Maybe the law needs to be changed to prevent this in the future.
I agree that in five of the kids cases it should have been handled in juvenile court. The sixth had four previous convictions, two of which were for assault.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. You think we need a LAW that prohibits hanging nooses in trees?
Holy shit.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
77. It's difficult to prosecute someone when there is no law.
No law = No crime. It is as simple as that.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. I keep hearing all these legalistic arguments
that have nada to do with human decency.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. How would you have handled it?n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. First, there would have been a federal criminal investigation
on the noose hanging. With publicity so the perpetrators could have learned a clue or two.

Second, there would have been a school assembly that didn't try to intimidate black students but would have had FUCKING EDUCATION as its goal. But, that would have probably been impossible in Jena.

If the students on both sides thought this incident was being taken seriously, it's very possible that white kid wouldn't have been beat up. And, it's possible that copycat crap wouldn't be happening all over the country.

This stuff hurts EVERYBODY.

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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. So the white kid was tageted because of his race?
Isn't that a hate crime?
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. He wasn't attacked because of his race.
The attack occurred because of the taunting.

* In signed statements, several white and black students mentioned a series of verbal altercations during the lunch hour preceding the attack on Justin Barker. The trash-talking was directly related to a fight at the Fair Barn three days earlier
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. That's rich.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #37
81. Right.
And how do you think the Bailey beating should have been handled? And what do you think should have happened to the man who pulled the gun on the juveniles?

Do you think maybe this could be a problem about unequal justice?
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. unfortunately a death threat is not taken very seriously in louisiana, while an actual assault is
the reason this is a shaky example of instutionalized racism is because death threats are simply not taken seriously in this state, i've had occasion to report a death threat on myself (i had the threat on a recording because it had been made multiple times by this person, who was delusional from a mental disorder) and it's basically laughed off, they'll take the report, but they are not going to do anything about it, until such time as you are actually injured or killed, at that time, they will take out the file and include the person who threatened you in the investigation -- that's what one of the cops told me, "we can't really do anything about this until he actually hurts you"

that's what happened to me, that's pretty much what happens all the time around here

so it is not amazing that the white kids got handled as juveniles, even if you do argue that putting up the nooses was a threat, that's just how police handle threats, frankly, they don't handle them

the black kids on the other hand participated in beating a kid who was on the floor unconscious, that is pretty violent and i don't blame any DA for going for the maximum if he thinks he can get it, it's kind of the DA's job to violent criminals out of society for as long as possible any way he can


in this particular case it is shaky to say that the kids were treated differently because of color, it looks like they were treated differently because they committed different offenses



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. They were treated differently BEFORE the assault on the white kid.
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 02:07 PM by sfexpat2000
Give me a break. Or, don't. I really don't care.

On edit: I wonder how many apologists understand that that white kid was put in danger BECAUSE of the rampant racism in Jena. I think we need an ignore time out here.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
83. The Fair Barn attack was a group of whites beating
a black youth. The school attack was a group of Blacks beating a white youth. How are these offenses different? They certainly weren't treated the same.

"in this particular case it is shaky to say that the kids were treated differently because of color, it looks like they were treated differently because they committed different offenses"
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
65. Well,, is it possible that they committed two separate offenses
That's what I heard.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Please continue your defense of the bigotry in Jena.
It will help us all sleep so much more soundly at night.

I for one don't want to fear a race war. :sarcasm:
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Maybe you should consider that your opinion is not the only valid one.
You may feel that you have this issue "nailed" but I would suggest that you, like most people, all have something to learn.

And by the way, settle down. This is the DU, we're all against racism and for equal treatment.

We're on the same side.

Let's start a thread about what would really help our black brothers. Like equal quality education. Equal access to health-care. Seems so ironic, this divisive "go no-where" issue is based around one school. Isn't it a bigger issue to you that black kids all across the country are stuck in second class schools?

How about health care? What's the percentage of black people covered as compared to other groups?

Katrina victims. All but forgotten.

It's almost like the neo-cons are trying to distract us.

Let's move forward on important issues and leave the divisiveness behind.




:dem:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Bullshit. As long as you or anyone can so easily hand off
responsibility for outright, in your face racism, we'll get nowhere.

No appeal to unity or any other red herring can change what happened / is happening in Jena.

Let's deal with it. Now.
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Anita Garcia Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #65
104. Nice name, huh?
"Nightrider".
I guess we're supposed to believe that you are unfamiliar with history, too?
Pick whatever name you want and justify the reason, if you choose.
Defend the use of nooses, please.
I will continue to fight for your right, our right to speak freely.
However, I just note, for others, that I personally find your name as offensive as the hanging of nooses.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
80. The noose incident does not excuse the assault.
It does not excuse the assault on the Bailey child or the Barker child.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. I've yet to see anyone argue that.
Although, I have said in this thread that the noose incident mishandled did nothing to diffuse the tention.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
43. Warning: graphic. This is what nooses in trees mean in our culture.
Edited on Wed Oct-24-07 02:27 PM by sfexpat2000
I'm a professional comedy writer and I don't see a joke here. :sarcasm:







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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Kicking your post.
:kick:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Thank you, cat_girl25.. Here's some Brooks for you.

A BRONZEVILLE MOTHER LOITERS IN MISSISSIPPI.
MEANWHILE, A MISSISSIPPI MOTHER BURNS BACON.

From the first it had been like a
Ballad. It had the beat inevitable. It had the blood.
A wildness cut up, and tied in little bunches,
Like the four-line stanzas of the ballads she had never quite
understood--the ballads they had set her to, in school.


Herself: the milk-white maid, the "maid mild"
Of the ballad. Pursued
By the Dark Villain. Rescued by the Fine Prince.
The Happiness-Ever-After.
That was worth anything.
It was good to be a "maid mild."
That made the breath go fast.


Her bacon burned. She
Hastened to hide it in the step-on can, and
Drew more strips from the meat case. The eggs and sour-milk biscuits
Did well. She set out a jar
Of her new quince preserve.


. . . But there was something about the matter of the Dark Villain.
He should have been older, perhaps.
The hacking down of a villain was more fun to think about
When his menace possessed undisputed breath, undisputed height,
And best of all, when history was cluttered
With the bones of many eaten knights and princesses.


The fun was disturbed, then all but nullified
When the Dark Villain was a blackish child
Of Fourteen, with eyes still too young to be dirty,
And a mouth too young to have lost every reminder
Of its infant softness.


That boy must have been surprised! For
These were grown-ups. Grown-ups were supposed to be wise.
And the Fine Prince--and that other--so tall, so broad, so
Grown! Perhaps the boy had never guessed
That the trouble with grown-ups was that under the magnificent shell of adulthood, just under,
Waited the baby full of tantrums.
It occurred to her that there may have been something
Ridiculous to the picture of the Fine Prince
Rushing (rich with the breadth and height and
Mature solidness whose lack, in the Dark Villain, was impressing her,
Confronting her more and more as this first day after the trial
And acquittal (wore on) rushing
With his heavy companion to hack down (unhorsed)
That little foe. So much had happened, she could not remember now what that foe had done
Against her, or if anything had been done.
The breaks were everywhere. That she could think
Of no thread capable of the necessary
Sew-work.


She made the babies sit in their places at the table.
Then, before calling HIM, she hurried
To the mirror with her comb and lipstick. It was necessary
To be more beautiful than ever.
The beautiful wife.
For sometimes she fancied he looked at her as though
Measuring her. As if he considered, Had she been worth it?
Had she been worth the blood, the cramped cries, the little stirring bravado, The gradual dulling of those Negro eyes,
The sudden, overwhelming little-boyness in that barn?
Whatever she might feel or half-feel, the lipstick necessity was something apart. HE must never conclude
That she had not been worth it.


HE sat down, the Fine Prince, and
Began buttering a biscuit. HE looked at HIS hands.
More papers were in from the North, HE mumbled. More maddening headlines.
With their pepper-words, "bestiality," and "barbarism," and
"Shocking."
The half-sneers HE had mastered for the trial worked across
HIS sweet and pretty face.


What HE'd like to do, HE explained, was kill them all.
The time lost. The unwanted fame.
Still, it had been fun to show those intruders
A thing or two. To show that snappy-eyed mother,
That sassy, Northern, brown-black--


Nothing could stop Mississippi.
HE knew that. Big fella
Knew that.
And, what was so good, Mississippi knew that.
They could send in their petitions, and scar
Their newspapers with bleeding headlines. Their governors
Could appeal to Washington . . .


"What I want," the older baby said, "is 'lasses on my jam."
Whereupon the younger baby
Picked up the molasses pitcher and threw
The molasses in his brother's face. Instantly
The Fine Prince leaned across the table and slapped
The small and smiling criminal.
She did not speak. When the HAND
Came down and away, and she could look at her child,
At her baby-child,
She could think only of blood.
Surely her baby's cheek
Had disappeared, and in its place, surely,
Hung a heaviness, a lengthening red, a red that had no end.
She shook her had. It was not true, of course.
It was not true at all. The
Child's face was as always, the
Color of the paste in her paste-jar.


She left the table, to the tune of the children's lamentations, which were shriller
Than ever. She
Looked out of a window. She said not a word. That
Was one of the new Somethings--
The fear,
Tying her as with iron.


Suddenly she felt his hands upon her. He had followed her
To the window. The children were whimpering now.
Such bits of tots. And she, their mother,
Could not protect them. She looked at her shoulders, still
Gripped in the claim of his hands. She tried, but could not resist the idea
That a red ooze was seeping, spreading darkly, thickly, slowly,
Over her white shoulders, her own shoulders,
And over all of Earth and Mars.


He whispered something to her, did the Fine Prince, something about love and night and intention.
She heard no hoof-beat of the horse and saw no flash of the shining steel.


He pulled her face around to meet
His, and there it was, close close,
For the first time in all the days and nights.
His mouth, wet and red,
So very, very, very red,
Closed over hers.


Then a sickness heaved within her. The courtroom Coca-Cola,
The courtroom beer and hate and sweat and drone,
Pushed like a wall against her. She wanted to bear it.
But his mouth would not go away and neither would the
Decapitated exclamation points in that Other Woman's eyes.


She did not scream.
She stood there.
But a hatred for him burst into glorious flower,
And its perfume enclasped them--big,
Bigger than all magnolias.


The last bleak news of the ballad.
The rest of the rugged music.
The last quatrain.


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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. Unreal ...
some DUers were trying to explain away the benign symbology of nooses in one of my recent posts about a noose incident at the workplace in Texas. The employee claimed it was HIS necktie.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Search "necktie parties".
If you have the stomach.

Wtf is it with this denial?

:wtf:
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Anita Garcia Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #43
105. Nightriders
the ones responsible for the fear of being caught and hung!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. So the poster was right. I did have something to learn in this thread.
Thank you.
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