Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Anybody debunk "A History Lesson"?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:30 PM
Original message
Anybody debunk "A History Lesson"?
I got a much forwarded email titled "A History Lesson" Of course, it's RW bullshit. I taught history, and I know bullshit when I see it. I don't have the time to go thru it point by point, and I can't find it on snopes. Does anybody out in DU-land have a pre-canned debunk?

- - - - - -
SOME OF YOU ARE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THAT NEARLY EVERY FAMILY IN AMERICA WAS GROSSLY AFFECTED BY WW II. MOST OF YOU DON'T REMEMBER THE RATIONING OF MEAT, SHOES, GASOLINE, AND SUGAR. NO TIRES FOR OUR AUTOMOBILES, AND A SPEED LIMIT OF 35 MILES AN HOUR ON THE ROAD, NOT TO MENTION, NO NEW AUTOMOBILES. READ THIS AND THINK ABOUT HOW WE WOULD REACT TO BEING TAKEN OVER BY FOREIGNERS IN 2007.

This is an EXCELLENT essay. Well, thought out and presented.
-snip-
We have four options:

1 . We can defeat the Jihad now, before it gets nuclear weapons.

2 . We can fight the Jihad later, after it gets nuclear weapons (which may be as early as next year, if Iran 's progress on nuclear weapons is whatIran claims it is).

3 . We can surrender to the Jihad and accept its dominance in the Middle East now; in Europe in the next few years or decades, and ultimately inAmerica.

OR

4 . We can stand down now, and pick up the fight later when the Jihad is more widespread and better armed, perhaps after the Jihad has dominatedFrance and Germany and possibly most of the rest of Europe. It will, of course, be more dangerous, more expensive, and much bloodier.

If you oppose this war, I hope you like the idea that your children, or grandchildren, may live in an Islamic America under the Mullahs and the Sharia, an America that resembles Iran today.
-snip-
Americans who oppose the liberation of Iraq are coming down on the side of their own worst enemy!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Raymond S. Kraft is a writer living in Northern California that has studied the Middle Eastern culture and religion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please consider passing along copies of this article to students in high school, college and university as it contains information about the American past that is very meaningful today -- history about America that very likely is completely unknown by them (and their instructors, too). By being denied the facts of our history, they are at a decided disadvantage when it comes to reasoning and thinking through the issues of todaybi They are prime targets for misinformation campaigns beamed at enlisting them in causes and beliefs that are special interest agenda driven.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Crusades all over again. Great plan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. There is an obvious "false choice" fallacy
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 10:43 PM by cosmik debris
These are NOT the only options, and the consequences of the options stated may not be what the author suggests.

Edit: another irony I noticed: "Americans who oppose the liberation of Iraq are coming down on the side of their own worst enemy!"

Just turn that around: "Americans who SUPPORT the OCCUPATION of Iraq are coming down on the side of their own worst enemy!(Iran)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Fight the Jihad"
By the way, whatever happened to Osama "Jihad" Bin Laden? Or are they too shit skeerd to look for him?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Since he's all about the "we," I'm guessing Mr. Kraft has signed up? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. inaccuracies
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 10:53 PM by Eric J in MN
...listed here:

http://www.theabsurdreport.com/2006/subject-historical-significance/

Alan Tibbetts Says:
February 28th, 2007 at 3:51 pm

This article is so full of historical inaccuracies I would be embarrassed to send it to 5th graders, much less college students.

A few of the many inaccuracies:

“Then along came Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and in outrage Congress unanimously declared war on Japan, and the following day on Germany, which had not yet attacked us. It was a dicey thing. We had few allies.”

1. Congress did NOT declare war unanimously on December 7th 1941. On December 8th Congress voted to declare war on Japan and one member of Congress, Jeannette Rankin of Montana, voted against it.

2. Germany and Italy declared war on the US on December 11th, the US then (afterwards) declared war on them.

3. The same day that the US declared war on Japan the following countries did the same: Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Free France, the Netherlands, the Netherlands East Indies, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras and Panama. On Dec 9th China, Cuba and South Africa declared war on Japan (even though China had been fighting Japan for years). December 11th Nicaragua and the Polish government in exile declare war on Japan; Dominican Republic, Guatemala and Nicaragua declare war on Germany and Italy. December 12th Haiti, Honduras and Panama declared war on Germany and Italy. Let’s not forget Australia, S. Africa, Canada, the Free French, exile governments from Pland, Czechoslovakia, and the Netherlands among others were already at war with Germany, and India was part of the British Empire. The Soviet Union was at war with Germany but did not declare war on Japan until 1945. The list of American allies grew longer as the war proceeded, countries like Mexico and Brazil contributed forces to fight against Germany.

“Actually, Belgium surrendered on one day, because it was unable to oppose the German invasion, and the Germans bombed Brussels into rubble the next day just to prove they could.”

Belgium fought Germany from 10 May 1940 until 28 May 1940. The Germans bombed Rotterdam (Netherlands) on 14 May 1940, shortly after the the Dutch government agreed to lay down arms, destroying 20,000 buildings and killing 980 people. The Dutch government fled to Britain rather than surrender. The Germans did not bomb Brussels into rubble.

“Russia lost something like 24 million people in the sieges of Stalingrad and Moscow alone… 90% of them from cold and starvation, mostly civilians, but also more than a MILLION soldiers.”

Er, that was Leningrad and Stalingrad. The Germans never besieged Moscow. The Soviet Union might have lost as many as 24 million - during the entire war, not in two battles. Perhaps 35% were civilians.

If this is a “history lesson” it is history from an alternate reality. The rest of this article is as wrong as the “known common facts” quoted by Mr Kraft.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. more inaccuracies...
"Together, Japan and Germany had long-range plans of invading Canada and Mexico"

-they had no such plans. Germany cared only about Europe, and Japan about their Co-Prosperity Sphere.

"America’s only allies then were England, Ireland, Scotland..."

-Ireland stayed neutral in World War 2. England and Scotland are not countries. He should have said, United Kingdom.

"All of Europe, from Norway to Italy, except Russia in the East, was already under the Nazi heel."

-Switzerland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Finland, and Turkey were not under the Nazi heel. All but Finland stayed out of World War 2.

"America was certainly not prepared for war"

-Military conscription was introduced Sept. 1940 in United States, expanding the army from 2 divisions to 34, with a manpower of 1.6 million, by the middle of 1941. Mobilization plans were in place, and the US Navy had been fighting an unofficial war with the German U-Boot fleet for at least a year.

"...at the outbreak of WW2, army units were training with broomsticks because they didn’t have guns, and cars with “tank” painted on the doors because they didn’t have real tanks."

-may have been true in the 20's and early 30's, but by Dec 1941, the US had four armored divisions largely armed with M3 Lee medium tanks.

"Britain had already gone bankrupt,..."

-Britain did not go bankrupt during World War 2. In large part, this was thanks to Roosevelt's Lend-Lease aid before and during American entry into the war.

"saved only by the donation of $600 million in gold bullion in the Bank of England, that was actually the property of Belgium, given by Belgium to England to carry on the war when Belgium was overrun by Hitler (a little known fact)"

-seems to have been "little known" because Kraft pulled this one right out of his ass.

" was saved from being overrun by Germany only because Hitler made the mistake of thinking the Brits were a relatively minor threat that could be dealt with later..."

-Britain was saved by the English Channel. Hitler wanted to invade in Operation Sealion, but because the Royal Air Force was not defeated by the Luftwaffe, a cross-channel invasion was viewed as too risky, because the Luftwaffe could not protect the attack barges that would carry the invasion fleet from the Royal Navy while the Royal Air Force still existed to shoot down the Luftwaffe.

"...first turning his attention to Russia, at a time when England was on the verge of collapse, in the late summer of 1940"

-Hitler's attention had been on Russia at least since he wrote Mein Kampf in prison. Hitler directed the Wehrmacht High Command to plan for a Russian attack in Sept 1940, but anticipated a mid-1940s invasion. Anyways, the invasion took place in June 1941, not in late summer of 1940.

"Ironically, Russia saved America’s butt by putting up a desperate fight for two years.."

-Russia was invaded in June, 1941. America entered the war Dec, 1941. That is six months. Not quite sure how Russia "saved America's butt", since America was never realistically threatened with invasion by Germany.

"Had Russia surrendered, Hitler would have been able to focus his entire war effort against the Brits, then America. And the Nazis could possibly have won the war"

-Germany might have eventually conquered Britain, but a cross-Atlantic invasion while trying to hold all of Europe (including Russia) was a pipe dream to all but World War 2 revisionists. Germany had neither the manpower, the industrial base, the fleet, nor the inclination to invade North America.

Should I go on?

Surely Kraft meant his bizarrely inaccurate article as a joke, sort of a "how to make shit up" article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. The idea that Iran could invade and occupy the USA
is totally absurd. or all the Muslim countries combined for that matter. We can't even invade and occupy little Iraq, what makes them think it would work in reverse? The only other way is if we let a tiny minority of Muslims living in the US impose Sharia law somehow, which is so far off the deep end. Their argument doesn't make any sense. Germany and Japan circa 1940 are pretty scary. Iran and Syria circa 2007 are laughable in terms of their offensive military capability.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. Did that Kraft fool get his info from Fox News?
He might have also mentioned that Bill O'Reilly said American soldiers committed war crime massacres against the SS at Malmedy during the Battle of the Bulge. That would have been in line with the other reams of false facts he mentioned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. .....
~snip~
"If you oppose this war, I hope you like the idea that your children, or grandchildren, may live in an Islamic America under the Mullahs and the Sharia, an America that resembles Iran today.
~snip~

And if we don't defeat the growing influence of Fundamentalist religion in politics here in the good ol' US of A we're gonna' end up with our own homegrown version of the same thing...with its own set of proscriptions, of course.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. I'm still waiting for the Cubans to storm the beaches of Miami.
Or, the Russians to be parading down 5th Avenue.

Or, the Vietnamese to be renaming Malibu Ho Chi Minh Beach.

Or, the mighty Grenadians launching a blitzkrieg in Des Moines.

Never fear, Mr. Kraft hiding under your bed, we are "The Land of the Free and the Home of the BRAVE."

Which is just as laughable as your quivering terror of evil Jihadis decking out your daughter in a Burqa.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. It's attributed to one Raymond S. Kraft
@ the Absurd Report.
Just another wingnut w/ a keyboard.
http://www.theabsurdreport.com/2006/subject-historical-significance/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 16th 2024, 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC