Mother Jones: Some of Obama's Best Friends Are Gay. No, Really.

Are we supposed to applaud Sen. Obama's courage in standing up to the "special interests"?

Despite the backlash, gay-bashing preacher-singer Donnie McClurkin brought the noise to the contender's South Carolina, pander-to-black-hatred tour stop yesterday. So, not only is he legitimizing black bigotry, he's also a coward by choosing not to share a stage with McClurkin. Instead, the campaign scrounged around for a token to prove that some of it's best friends were gay:

Sidden is the white, gay pastor added to the concert bill as a last minute compromise by the Obama campaign. Sidden's appearance was notably brief and anti-climactic: He said a short prayer to the auditorium at the very beginning of the program, when the arena was only about half full, and then he left.

We're supposed to believe that Obama thought CP Time wouldn't be in effect for once?

Disgraceful, all around. Whether Obama had ever intended to attend the concert, he should have after the scandal broke or he should have cancelled it and admitted the error (pot calling the kettle black watch: didn't he hammer Sen. Clinton for waffling on admitting her Iraq War vote was a mistake?). Hiding behind the black masses and their unassailable hyper-religiosity will not soon be forgotten by those supporters who thought him the man who'd bring integrity and truth-telling back to Washington. If he doesn't soon answer this question, his silence will do the job for him: how does Obama reconcile his mild, but clear, support for gay rights with an embrace of those who believe God "saves" believers from the sin of homosexuality? No points, Senator, for hiding behind the bigotry of the black masses while positioning yourself as he who will tell blacks, and therefore the country, what they don't want to hear. I guess he just means the ones who'll still vote for him no matter what he does.

Maybe it's true what they (used to) say (out loud) about blacks and music: funk it up and anything blacks' ignorantly fear becomes sacrosanct and you, a racist, for objecting.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2007/10/5968_some_of_obamas.html

I don't really trust either of the front corporatist runners, and, that's a shame.

what else is new in this screwed up world?

Guess there isn't enough hatred and intolerance to go around yet-?

I'm not an Obama supporter- but the way he is being burned at the stake for this just underscores how ugly we human beings are.

all around.

myself included.


:nuke:

Please don't confuse the issue and blame the victims of this ugliness.

:grr:

do him any favors then-

Because like it or not, hating and ostracisizing Mcclurken because he claims himself to be a 'healed' homosexual- (and that IS the whole issue here) is bigotry.

It isn't very pretty from either perspective.

If Mcclurken is wrong (and I believe he IS- ) demanding that he be shunned and avoided actually only gives him a twisted kind of power.

peace~

mean anyway...

response to your post.

It makes sense. I often have trouble putting words to my thoughts, but this isn't one of them. :crazy:

You may not like what I'm saying, but if you read it, you'll hear it.

peace~

you aren't backing it up Bluebear!-

I don't deny that the GLBT community is oppressed- but I don't see this as an act which was designed to target or harm anyone-

Can you give your idea of what Obama should have done once Mcclurken was invited? Unless I am completely mis-informed, (which is possible) I understood that the original invitation was for this man to SING- to perform in a concert- not to give a sermon, not to discuss sexuality- but to sing.

Is it possible that rejecting him solely because he denies he is gay- could be just as wrong as denying someone a job, an apartment, legitimacy based on the fact that they are openly gay?

Please try to see this from the view of 'the other'.

The only winners in this situation are those who delight in division, anger, and negativity.

Haven't they won enough already???

peace~

Nothing 'ex' about it.

is sad-

think about it.

Really think about it.

I do think it -is- sad that this guy is bouncing around the country apparently convincing at least some people that gay can be 'cured'...but I am not at all certain that's what you meant. ???

He shouldn't have done this to begin with.

That he's now paying the price for it is his fault. He bet on bigotry and he lost.

opinion- not based on anything more factual than mine, which is that he never realized that Mcclurken's sexuality was going to be an issue until after the event was announced-

You have a right to your opinion- as i do to mine.

I don't believe he bet on bigotry- asking mcclurken to sit it out because of his denial of his sexuality would be nothing less than bigotry- He wasn't asked to perform sexually- he was asked to SiNG.

we need to learn how to live together- or our world will surely fall apart.

That sounds lovely.

But inviting a KKK grand dragon to a concert because he has a nice voice....is not my idea of inclusion, or a life's lesson that we must live together with our enemies or our world will fall apart. When the KKK member then goes on to denigrate people of color on stage, the concert organizer cannot be surprised and then say furthermore that it is an excercise in inclusion.

Bluebear- we aren't going to agree on this issue.

And I'm not going to invite more ugliness by trying to find common ground in this tangled mess.

I have my own issues where I can't see beyond the pain- I believe the issue of Mcclurken is one like that for some here. That's human. And I'm sorry that it is happening.

I'm not your enemy- nor are you mine.

peace~

Giving him a platform to spread his hateful nonsense. And Obama sent a video message saying the performers were "among his favorites."

Obama would never have taken such a "let's live together" attitude about a known racist.

Stop defending his hypocrisy.

homosexuality became an issue for this concert when Obama was encouraged to reject Mcclurken based on his sexuality- I believe.

Had he used the venue as a platform to press his agenda before all the groundswell from the media and some in the LGBT community, he would have been seen far differently IMO.

Can Obama not like this mans music because of his sexuality???? HOW in the world is that not bigotry???? how is that being open- affirming- accepting????

I'm not defending anyones hypocricy- I'm asking you to look closely at what you are encouraging and promoting.

geesh!

WTF?

That's the fourth time you've hinted the issue is only with McClurkin's sexuality.

Are you REALLY that clueless or are you playing dumb?

when you come right down to it the issue that would cause this man to be "un-invited" would be about what?

Not his religion- not his ability to sing or perform- (which is exactly what he was supposed to be doing) but because of his sexuality-

Perhaps you can't see it.

I can't ignore it.

Bigotry is bigotry- You aren't objecting to this man's singing. You are objecting to his being someone who denies his homosexuality. You want him to BE something he is not willing or able to do. The answer is what? Make a very CLEAR DISTINCTION between the man's stand on homosexuality, and his value as a human being, his talent as a performer/singer or flat out reject HIM- as anything- valuable, based solely on this one aspect of who he is.

Is he asking that Gays be rejected and shunned until they adopt his life view? Does he refuse to have a part in anything that would include an openly Gay person???

I can't endorse his position. But I can't endorse this kind of stuff either.

hate is hate

I don't give a flying fuck HOW he self identifies.....but when he says all gays are suffering from some sort of illness only Jesus can cure, THEN I have a problem. When he says gays are cursed, THEN I have a problem. When he says gays want to kill our children, THEN I have a problem.

Stop being intentionally obtuse. That shit doesn't fly on DU. If you want to come out and say this shit doesn't matter to you, fine. DO IT........but don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.



"The gloves are off and if there's going to be a war, there's going to be a war. But it will be a war with a purpose?.I'm not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children." - Donnie McClurkin.

wouldn't waste my time here- and i'm NOT being intentionally obtuse-

I'm not pissing on anyones shoes- I've asked for examples of Mcclurken's hate speech, and all I got was his statement "God healed me from homosexuality".

Why is it so difficult to present your persepecive and facts without needing to destroy anyone willing to ask for facts?

Can you give me a link to your quote- that is EXACTLY what I've been asking for- words from the man himself that speak hatred to others- that encourage hatred .

I'd appreciate it if you'd address the issue- like your linking reputable quotes, rather than offering your opinion of what my reasons for discussing this issue are- or telling me what i think.

Is that too much to ask?

it's really about.

Sorry, but I've had it up to here with clueless presidents in my lifetime...the last 7 years should be enough for anyone's lifetime!

whether it is Blacks, Gays, women, etc.
I would think this is a little more important of an issue than how big someone's house is, or how much they pay for haircuts, or whether they develop convenient accents.
That is all fluff.
Throwing a subsect of humans under the bus (or vicariously endorsing someone who does) is the heart of the matter.

to hate people who claim to be 'healed' homosexuals? Is this guy not in a specific group HWNN? Is he really advocating Hatred of Gays? Does he demand that anyone who is LGBT not share a venue with him?

I'm hearing an awful lot of things put in this mans mouth - far too few of his actual words other than those about his own personal 'life'.

I don't support the concept that being gay is something that is a choice. But if I demand that Mcclurken 'admit' that he is gay, or say he is...less than worthless... until he does is different ... how???


I'm not playing the devils advocate here- I'm really troubled by the reaction of people I share many similar progressive perspectives with. I'm trying to find

peace~

Those words, delivered straight from the man's lips last night. Defend that.

has been credited with an awful lot of things throuought history- god has also been said to have some pretty odd demands- likes dislikes. Now- if Mcclurken demanded that everyone needs to accept his view, or they will not be allowed to be part of his society,- that they not be allowed to participate in life, that would be different.

"God" makes some people rich- famous- saves some from disaster- likes 'some' countries, and not 'others'- I could go on and on and on- i've been wounded by the religious community more than I want to begin to think about-

He was talking about what he believes 'god' did for him.

That is a very personal statement.


Does he demand that anyone performing with him or vetting him adhere to his view of sexuality?


I shouldn't have to 'defend' this man's belief about what 'god' did in his life.

??? should I???

"God delivered from homosexuality"....like "homosexuality" was the plague or a fiery pit from which he had to be "rescued"

So if a performer appearing with Obama (or any other Democratic candidate) says something like:

God told me that black people are inferior
God told me Jewish people are going to hell
God told me that cripples should be thrown off a cliff because they contribute nothing to society
God told me that all Mexicans are illegal and are here to steal my money

we should back off and let the performer appear? Are you fucking serious?

you are going to see what you want to see-
everything is advocating hatred if it doesn't jibe with your take on it.

The only perspective that should ever be allowed, tolerated or accepted is the one that 'you' hold.
:sarcasm:
sorry-

Did you even read my post? Do you have any personal experience in the religious community? Have you ever heard what people claim to be "delivered from" in religious circles?

I've asked for actual statements from Mcclurken which advocate hating- marginalizing- discriminating AGAINST- people based on their sexuality. I haven't gotten any. yet. I'm not saying they don't exist, but no one is posting them.

What do YOU propose we do with people like Mcclurken???- how is your prejudice and bigotry any better than those who refuse to recognize someone on the basis of their being openly gay???-

and yes, i'm more than fucking serious-

I see a gay man, who cannot accept/love himself as he is.
So he rejects that aspect of himself.- And instead 'believes' that he has been changed into someone different.


You don't see anything beyond his sex- The fact that he rejects his sexuality is his 'sum-total' he has no value to you as a human apart from his homosexuality. That one issue trumps everything.

are you fucking serious???

wow.

I can't really believe this.

Holy shit, we are through the looking glass...

can decide that one FS-

Not me-

You know youself- I can only guess. And my guesses don't matter squat.

I have nothing to apologize for when I condemn bigotry and homophobia, particularly when it's given a microphone and an audience by a supposedly "progressive" candidate.

I will never apologize for standing up for my LGBT brothers and sisters against tyranny and hatred.

I will never back down from doing everything I can to deny those who spread hate and intolerance a "seat at the table"

I have no guilt about trashing hateful people and those who would excuse, defend, marginalize or apologize for their bigotry

of mental disorders in 1973? In 1987 publication of DSM-III-R, ego-dystonic homosexuality was deleted as well. Therefore, it is NOT classified as a disease, so how can one be "healed" of something that isn't a disease in the first place?
Continued advocation of language such as this is harmful to our society.

from any number of very human attributes.

The desire to have an equal voice for one. Desires are right up there among the big ones.

You are saying that he can't be 'healed' from being who he is. I agree.

Do you really think he was altered in any way by this belief? I believe he is denying his very natural desires.-

greed isn't in the dsm either- or hunger- or yearning-

I'm not advocating this man's position. I AM saying that demanding he be rejected as a performer at a religious venue based on his belief about his own sexuality is also harmful to our society.

Is the 'sum total' of this man his sexuality? Does his complete value as a being rest solely on his not rejecting his homosexuality?

How will we live HWNN????

What will we do with all those who don't embrace the issues that are dear to each one of us???

How will we ever find a meeting place if we don't reach out to one another and listen- not denying our feelings and beliefs- our own personal truths- denying who we are will never bring us true peace, but if we refuse to listen, if we refuse to speak in ways which engage the 'other'- we are doomed to this kind of a hell on earth forever.

I want better for us all- on all sides.

I want that world that is worth waking up to- that is worth hanging around to build- even if it will take a long time coming. We need to break out of this endless circle of hate- rejection-

I want my kids to at least have a tiny bit of hope for tomorrow being better than now.

I want everyone to have that hope.

peace~

to read this link (which has several others of interest) and get back to me?

http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2007/10/23/whats-the-matter-with-obama-this-is-not-a-question-part-1/

McClurkin has promised to leave 'happy gays' alone, according to the Obama campaign.

From the Washington Post:

The concert was to be the highlight of this outreach and while the crowd left excited, it was clear the campaign still regarded the controversy as complicated. Aides gave reporters a three-page memo detailing McClurkin's and Obama's views on gay rights that noted in capital letters "MCCLURKIN DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR LIVES AND HAS CRITICIZED CHURCH LEADERS WHO DEMONIZE HOMOSEXUALS," with quotes detailing those statements from the singer.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/10/29/post_159.html

Note to self: Must...remain...cheerful...

if being happy is a prerequisite to needing to be 'healed' then we are all doomed.
Happiness is fleeting- and only exists when balanced by its lack.


Very poor choice of words IMO- not that any words could do much better.

peace~

Or is it queer and colored? It's hard to keep track of what them people want to call themselves -- I'm sure Obama knows all about that. :evilgrin:

What has that got to do with anything?

And half of the republicans in congress are closeted?

And?

...witness early on, when they had a cover story assuring people that the only reason anyone would oppose Hillary was because they were "threatened by powerful, capable women." :eyes:

Obama did this ALL on his own. He doesn't need any help from Hillary folks to be such a PATHETIC imcompetent.