Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Neocon-AIPAC Espionage Case !

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:15 PM
Original message
Neocon-AIPAC Espionage Case !
The reports in the news about today's federal court pretrial ruling on the neoconservative-AIPAC Espionage Scandal are interesting, indeed. I would like to add a bit of context.

Larry Franklin was part of VP Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld's private "national security council," which operated outside of any congressional oversight. Franklin, a neoconservative, was the OSP's #1 Iranian expert. He has pleaded guilty to charges involving espionage.

Two AIPAC officials were coordinating the espionage ring with him. They are facing charges, and the newest ruling involves their case.

They are saying they were playing an unofficial role for the Bush administration, which included illegally passing classified documents to intelligence officers from a foreign country.

On 8-14-06, the federal judge hearing the case ruled that, "A thorough review of the FISA dockets in issue confirms that the FISC had ample probable cause to believe that the targets were agents of a foreign power..." That is, of course, distinct from being agents for the US government.

The judge ruled that the AIPAC spies can subpoena Condi Rice, Stehen Hadley, Richard Armitage, Paul Wolfowitz, and Marc Grossman. (Alert DUers may notice an overlap with the Plame scandal.)

Here is a link to today's 19-page ruling:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/aipac/memop110207.pdf



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Alert DUers may notice an overlap with the Plame scandal
:hi:



Analyst Charged With Passing Iran Info: Franklin Turned Self InTo FBI
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1444053
Fieth resigns from Pentagon today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1186412
Former CIA official looks to leak the truth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=886884
New Israeli spy probe has a 30-year history, insiders say
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=852863
Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=783161
FBI probes Jewish sway on Bush government
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802725
Money from Iran Fuels Iraq Insurgency -Rumsfeld
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=810129
Israeli spy nest in the U.S. - Ashcroft says: ’Don’t arrest them!’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802249
FBI probes DOD office (spy probe widens)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784155
F.B.I said to reach official suspected of passing secrets ....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=786361
Analyst Who Is Target of Probe Went to Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784792
Knight Ridder:FBI espionage probe goes beyond Israeli allegations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784274
Pentagon Analyst Was Cooperating When Israel Spy Case Became Public
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=786505
Iran-Contra II? Fresh scrutiny on rogue Pentagon operation -Josh Marshall
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784906
AIPAC's Overt and Covert Ops
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=788267
UK Express: (Perle) Faces (FBI) Quiz Over Links to Israeli Spy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=785131
Israel Says It Has No Need to Spy on U.S.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=787437
F.B.I. Is Said to Brief Pentagon Bosses on Spy Case; Charges Are Possible
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=788936
LAT: FBI Questions Israeli Lobbyists (AIPAC) in Spying Probe ((Gilon mentioned)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=789576
FBI briefs Wolfowitz on Israeli spy claim
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=790076
F.B.I. Interviews 2 Suspected of Passing Secrets to Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=792950
FBI seizes computer from AIPAC offices
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=791564
Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795432
Leak Probe More Than 2 Years Old (AIPAC)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795905
AIPAC hires lawyers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794332
Spy probe scans neo-cons' Israel ties (long article from Asia Times)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794029
FBI Informed White House of AIPAC Probe Two Years Ago
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=797181
Alleged Pentagon Leak to Iraqi Is Under Investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798060
Serving Two Flags The Bush Neo-Cons and Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=799167
Israeli political advisor may have received U.S. secrets
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795817
Wider FBI Probe Of Pentagon Leaks Includes Chalabi - WaPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798333
LAT: Israel Has Long Spied on US,Say Officials(but CIA, Mossad "intimate")
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798631
Defense, Cheney Iran Specialists Questioned in (Israeli Spy) Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801031
Leak Inquiry Includes Iran Experts in Administration (WaPo)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801678
A Web Of Intrigue Inside the Israel espionage investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=803022
Pro-Israel Lobby Has Strong VoiceAIPAC Is Embroiled in Investigation of Pe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=803035
Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=783161
FBI probes possible Pentagon leak to Iraqi exiles
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=805885
Reporters' Files Subpoenaed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=815381
Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x803017
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Long time coming!
This is something the Cheneyites are going to have to try to derail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. The 3rd. Leaf Of The Clover!
It has been suggested that Condi will ignore the subpoena...is that possible in Federal Court?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
79. Yes, of course she always has the option of ignoring the subpeona
And the federal judge has the option of sending a Marshall to explain that it's a really bad option.

-Hoot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #79
101. It isn't that easy
in this context. If you read the ruling, you'll see that it is almost looking like the judge is continuing to try to find a quiet way to shut the case down. He has opened the door for the administration to stop the prosecution. This judge lacks the character of Reggie Walton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #101
113. Yes, wether or not the judge will exercise the option is quite another question.
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 03:30 PM by hootinholler
Sad to hear of his lackey tendencies.

-Hoot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #101
121. Reggie Walton? Plame Case Yes, Sibel Edmonds No
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 07:41 PM by Wiley50
He's got a few dark corners such as hiding his income and assets
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #121
142. Sibel Edmonds & Judge Walton
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #101
126. CrrrrrAP. This is exactly what I did not want to discover.
Damn IT! Another positioning scheme.

I should have known.

There are still options (especially if there is a power shift).

Ya' know, our justice system wasn't suppose to be worked let alone work this way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #126
134. There are still options.
DU is such an interesting space.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
T.Ruth2power Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Wow
Thanks for all that information.

Is there a synopsis?

:hi:

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Thanks for all of that - will read links tonight n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I was just going to say....Niger document forgeries also? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. The three leaf clover.
Plame// neocon-AIPAC espionage// Niger forgeries.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. Another very interesting development....

Saudi Arabia virtually admits having specific intelligence that could have prevented 9/11. What forces could have been involved in preventing the necessary action on that intelligence?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2192834

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Niger forgeries
http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2005/10/index.html#008117

HADLEY NAMED. La Repubblica has a dynamite series this week on the origin of the yellowcake forgeries. Laura Rozen reports:
With Patrick Fitzgerald widely expected to announce indictments in the CIA leaks investigation, questions are again being raised about the murky matter that first led to the appointment of the special counsel: namely, how the Bush White House came into possession of discredited Italian intelligence reports claiming that Iraq sought uranium "yellowcake" from Niger.
The key documents supposedly proving the Iraqi attempt turned out to be crude forgeries on official stationery stolen from the African nation's Rome embassy. Among the most tantalizing aspects of the debate over the Iraq War is the origin of those fake documents and the role of the Italian intelligence services in disseminating them.

In an explosive series of articles appearing this week in the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, investigative reporters Carlo Bonini and Giuseppe d'Avanzo reveal how Niccolo Pollari, chief of Italy's military intelligence service, known as SISMI, brought the Niger yellowcake story directly to the White House after his insistent overtures had been rejected by the Central Intelligence Agency in 2001 and 2002.

Today's exclusive report in La Repubblica reveals that Pollari met secretly in Washington on September 9, 2002, with then–Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley. Their secret meeting came at a critical moment in the White House campaign to convince Congress and the American public that war in Iraq was necessary to prevent Saddam Hussein from developing nuclear weapons.

The La Repubblica article quotes a Bush administration official saying, "I can confirm that on September 9, 2002, general Nicolo Pollari met Stephen Hadley."

Laura will have more on this story later today.


and this



JANUARY 2001 BREAK-IN AT NIGER EMBASSY

At night, between the first and second of the January 2001, a mysterious thief came to the embassy of Niger in Rome and into the residence of the counselor in charge. It turned out that some letterhead and seals (see photocopy) were missing. A second dossier on Niger-Iraq trade soon came into Martino’s hands, one that included references to uranium trafficking. Martino claims he got it from embassy personnel and that he thought it was authentic.


http://nuralcubicle.blogspot.com/2005/10/berlusconi-behind-fake-yellowcake.html

Double-Dealers and Dilettantes--the Men Behind Nigergate Were All Italians.

The military intervention in Iraq was justified by two revelations: Saddam Hussein attempted to acquire unprocessed uranium (yellowcake) in Niger (1) for enrichment with centrifuges built with aluminum tubes imported from Europe(2). The fabricators of the twin hoaxes (there was never any trace in Iraq of unprocessed uranium or centrifuges) were the Italian government and Italian military intelligence. La Repubblica has attempted to reconstruct the who, where and why of the manufacture and transfer to British and American intelligence of the dodgy dossier for war.

They are the same two hoaxes that Judith Miller, the reporter who betrayed her newspaper, published (together with Michael Gordon) on September 8, 2002. In a lengthy investigative piece for the New York Times, Miller reported that Saddam could have built an atomic weapon with those aluminum tubes. These were the goods that the hawks in the Bush administration were expecting.

The "war dance" which followed Judith Miller’s scoop seemed like "carefully-prepared theater” to an attentive media-watcher, Roberto Reale of Ultime Notizie (The Latest News).

Condoleezza Rice, who was then White House Security Advisor, said on CNN: We don’t want the smoking gun to look like a mushroom cloud. A menacing Dick Cheney told Meet the Press that We know with absolute certainty that Saddam is using his technical and commercial capacities to acquire the material necessary to enrich uranium to build a nuclear weapon. This was the beginning of an escalation of fear.

26 September 2002: Colin Powell warns the Senate: The Iraqi attempt to acquire uranium is proof of its nuclear ambitions.

19 December 2002: The information on Niger and the uranium is included in the three-page President’s Daily Briefing prepared each day by the CIA and the Department of State for George W. Bush. The ambassador to the United Nations, John Negroponte, added his stamp of approval: Why is Iraq dissimulating its purchase of Niger uranium?

more

http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/25/la-repubblica-scoop

....

It’s a fact that on the eve of the Iraq war, and under the supervision of the diplomatic advisor to the Foreign Ministry, Gianni Castellaneta (today ambassador to the USA), the director of SISMI organized his agenda in Washington with the staff of Condoleeza Rice, who was National Security Adviser to the White House at that time. La Repubblica is able to document this two track process between the government and Italian intelligence. At least one of these ‘barely official’ meetings of Pollari’s was, according to secret service agents, the ‘creation of a system’ that would bring together government, intelligence and public affairs .

To summarize: Nicolo Pollari’s SISMI wanted to substantiate the the Iraqi acquisition of raw uranium to build a nuclear bomb. The game-plan was rather transparent. ‘Authentic’ documents relating to an attempted acquisition in Niger (old Italian intelligence from the 1980’s) were the dowry of the second-in-command of CISMI’s Roman headquarters (Antonio Nucera). They were bundled together with another fabricated document … through a simulated burglary on the Nigerien embassy (from which they had gotten headed notepaper and seals). The documents were shown by Pollari’s men to CIA station agents, and at the same time, a SISMI ‘postman’ by the name of Rocco Martino was sent to Sir Richard Dearlove of MI6 in London.

turning to the second chapter of the Great Swindle, organized in Italy, to build the case that military intervention in Iraq was necessary. … the Italian report on uranium …

… The CIA analysts thought the first report ‘very limited’ and ‘without the necessary details.’ INR analysts in the Department of State assessed the information as ‘highly suspect.’ … The immediate impact on the American Intelligence community wasn’t very gratifying for Pollari … Gianni Castellaneta advised him to look in ‘other directions’ too, while the minister of Defence, Antonio Martino invited him to meet ‘an old friend of Italy’s.’ The American friend was Michael Ledeen, an old fox in the ‘parallel’ intelligence community in the US, who had been declared an undesirable person in our country in the 1980’s . Ledeen was at Rome on behalf of the Office of Special Plans, created at the Pentagon by Paul Wolfowiz to gather intelligence that would support military intervention in Iraq. A source at Forte Braschi told La Repubblica : “Pollari got a frosty reception from the CIA’s station head in Rome, Jeff Castelli, for this information on uranium. Castelli apparently let the matter drop . Pollari got the hint and talked about it with Michael Ledeen.’ We don’t know what Michael Ledeen did in Washington. But at the beginning of 2002, Paul Wolfowitz convinced Dick Cheney that the uranium trail intercepted by the Italians had to be explored top to bottom. The vice-president, as the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence tells it, once again asked the CIA ‘very decisively’ to find out more about the ‘possible acquisition of Nigerien uranium.’ In this meeting, Dick Cheney explicitly said that this piece of intelligence was at the disposition of a “foreign service.”

… Forte Braschi says that “Pollari was incredibly cunning – he knew that it wasn’t enough to rely on the CIA to push the uranium story. It was necessary to work, as Palazzo Chigi and the Department of Defence had indicated, with the Pentagon and with the National Security Adviser, Rice. … An administration official has told La Repubblica “I can confirm that on September 9 2002, General Nicolo Pollari met Stephen Hadley, the deputy to the National Security Adviser, Condoleeza Rice.”… SISMI’s ‘postman,’ Rocco Martino contacted a journalist for a weekly newspaper – edited by Carlo Rossella – to sell her the documents at issue. … Panorama had a worldwide scoop. Title “The War? It’s already begun,’ it spoke of ‘half a ton of uranium.’ … The government asked. The intelligence service gave. The media spread it. The government confirmed it. It was an old disinformation technique from the Cold War. Exaggerate the danger of the threat. Terrify and convince public opinion of it.

more
http://nuralcubicle.blogspot.com/2005/10/sismis-war-in-iraq-iranian-connection.html


Monday, October 31, 2005
SISMI's War in Iraq: The Iranian Connection

Carlo Bonini and Giuseppi d'Avanzo are at it again. Another three-part blockbuster exposé on the involvement of Italian Military intelligence inside Iraq.

Part I: From Chelabi to Iranian Agents--SISMI's War in Iraq
A strategic summit in Rome with the Pentagon.

ROME: He’s another politico-military intelligence chief. He’s a SISMI man. He makes his way slowly down the narrow hallway of the bar at the Hotel Eden in via Ludovisi. He stops to admire the sky and the attractive skyline of Rome in the April sun (it is 22 April 2003) through the hotel’s large windows. He looks elegant in his Chairman's Committee grisaille. . He selects a table at the center of the terrace. The waiter walks over and solicitously takes his order. The gentleman orders a freshly-squeezed orange juice and a double espresso. The Anglo-American invasion of Iraq began on the night of 19-20 March, thirty-three days earlier.

Today, as Silvio Berlusconi reveals that he never supported the military intervention in Iraq, it is fitting to tell the story of how our country, Italy, although allegedly opposed to war as our Premier now claims, was an active protagonist in war preparations and operations.

We will reveal the different arrangements and plans of action, as well as who planned them and with whom they were planned.

For us Italians, recounts the high-ranking SISMI official to La Repubblica, the war on Iraq was already underway in the days before Christmans, 2002. He smiles. He is animated with a glint of excitement in his eyes and for once seems seems to have no qualms about letting his personal satisfaction slip from behind a frozen mask.

Our man is too disciplined to crow about his successes and too stubborn to be discouraged by defeat. He tells us: It was a novelty, a revolution for our intelligence services. Never before in its history has SISMI been so prominently involved in military ground operations and a major role in planning a war campaign, to boot. The Italian Government? Of course our work was authorized by the Italian Government—are you joking? It was real war, not an exercise! The twenty men we sent to Iraq were risking their lives. He pauses. The espresso arrives. He sips it slowly, his eyes half-closed with satisfaction.

He continues. Twenty men from three SISMI departments were involved: Intelligence, Operations and Counterterrorism. They were divided into small groups which were to operate in and around the areas of Kirkuk, Baghdad and Basrah using outlandish disguises. Each unit was unaware of the identities and the mission of the others. Each unit was ordered to operate within a sector of territory and to work with intelligence “assets” who had already been selected and trained. The objectives were twofold: To identify Iraqi defenses and to evaluate the readiness of the Iraqi armed forces.

If combat was less intense than expected, it is due to the job we did—and we didn’t do it alone. If we won the war before firing a shot, it was due to our successes at infiltration and intelligence-gathering.

The story of Italian military intervention in Iraq begins when the resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, Michael Ledeen, sponsored by Defense Minister Antonio Martino, debarks in Rome with Pentagon men in tow to meet a handful of “Iranian exiles.” The meeting is organized by SISMI. In an Agency “safe house” near Piazza di Spagna (however, other sources have told us it was a reserved room in the Parco dei Principi Hotel).


"Reid: Cheney Obstructing Investigation"

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/002979.html

Reid: Cheney Obstructing Investigation
From Laura Rosen at War and Piece...

Reid on Fire

The New Republic has more on what I reported last month: that Cheney has intervened with chairman Pat Roberts to obstruct the Senate Select Intelligence committee's investigation of the Bush administration's use of Iraq intelligence. TNR write:

...--More dramatically, Reid also made it clear that he believes the delay in the Senate Intelligence Committee's investigation of prewar Iraq WMD--the underlying issue behind Tuesday's closed session--is entirely attributable to Vice President Dick Cheney. "Nothing happens regarding intelligence gathering ... unless it's signed off on by the Vice President," he said. " Roberts couldn't do it"--i.e., Roberts couldn't conduct a full investigation without Cheney's approval. When I asked Reid whether he meant to state so flatly that Cheney was personally and directly stalling the Intelligence Committee's work, he didn't pause a beat. In fact he almost stood from his chair. "Yes. I say that without any qualification ... Circle it." ...

I don't understand why we haven't heard Pat Roberts complaining more vociferously about the obstruction he's experienced from the Veep. Why would the Senator stand for the administration bucking oversight and Congressional reporting requirements on Iraq intelligence, torture, black site prisons, etc.? (Via Tapped's Ezra Klein).



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051103/pl_afp/usital ...

But committee staff sources say that before the cooperation ceased, the committee had received from Feith’s office internal memos suggesting that the office may indeed have been conducting unlawful activities. In particular, Democratic staffers are interested in a secret December 2001 meeting of two Feith deputies, Larry Franklin and Harold Rhode, with Ghorbanifar in Rome. The meeting also included members of a foreign intelligence service (Italy’s SISMI). The catch is that it wasn’t reported in advance to the intelligence committee or the CIA, in possible violation of Section 502 of the National Security Act, which says that anyone conducting intelligence activities must inform the committee and the agency



"Italy MPs probe Niger-Iraq claim"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4402594.stm

Italy MPs probe Niger-Iraq claim

The director of the Italian military intelligence agency (Sismi) is due to give evidence over allegations that Iraq sought to buy uranium from Niger.

Nicolo Pollari is testifying before a parliamentary committee over reports that Italy wilfully gave the US and UK evidence that turned out to be false......


The Italian hearing into the claims is being held behind closed doors, but some details were expected to emerge later.

Italian newspaper La Repubblica says Italian agents gave the false dossier to British and American intelligence services........


"Niger Uranium Forgeries: Excavating a Roman Mystery"


One has to wonder how Laura can have such certain knowledge of what Fitzgerald has or has not requested. Ah, but if there is no such report -- and she cites the head of the Italian intelligence oversignt committee, one Enzo Bianco, denying it -- then how can Fitzgerald have requested it? There is, here, perhaps some confusion as to the nature of the "report" -- is it official, or is it just a transcript of a hearing? I think this guy, whoever he is, has the right idea.

Giovanni D'Avanzo, writing in La Repubblica , poses a few questions to Senor Bianco's oversight committee, and in the course of them avers:

"Sometime after October 9, 2002, a team of SISMI agents are ordered to keep Rocco Martino under close surveillance ... Why was no surveillance memo or report issued to judicial investigators on Rocco Martino, who is investigated by the Rome Public Prosecutor’s office in 2003, until the fall of 2004?"

So there was an investigation, albeit not by the Italian parliament but by Rome's public prosecutor. It could be that this is what both Walker's and my own sources are referring to.

Laura cites several other skeptics, including a reporter for La Repubblica and "a former U.S. official recently in Italy," who say this story is "the echo of a rumor put out by people back the States." She also cites Vince Cannistraro, "who at one time heard rumors of such a report from Italian sources," and who

"Now says there doesn't appear to be a parliamentary report either. 'There is no published report,”'Cannistraro told me Monday. 'If there is a report, we might expect it would have some analysis and conclusions. There is no report, at least not a published report. …I think this stuff is just getting circulated.'"

Of course it isn't published -- that's the whole point.

Yes, it's true, as Laura says, that the Italians aren't too eager to have the blame pinned on SISMI -- but that doesn't mean SISMI isn't involved. And some Italians -- the left-wing opposition coalition, for example -- might be understandably eager to expose the scandal in the run-up to Italy's elections scheduled for next year.

Laura goes into the Italian role in creating and disseminating these documents, referring to the La Repubblica series on the subject, but somehow neglects to mention the crucial American angle -- and the key role of American neocons, i.e. Michael Ledeen, in funneling the information contained in the Niger forgeries to Washington. Someone legitimized these fake documents by doing an end run around the CIA and the mainstream intelligence community, and injected a fabrication into the American intelligence stream. Who was it? La Repubblica fingers the Office of Special Plans, and names names, including Ledeen, Harold Rhode, and Larry Franklin, the confessed spy for Israel.

...

I trust my source, and I furthermore think it's unimportant whether this information is coming from the Italian parliament or Rome's public prosecutor: the point is that the information is there, and it's getting out. Antiwar.com stands by its story.


"Open the Ledeen Dossier!"



The stakes involved in the Ledeen dossier are much more significant than the particular incident around the yellowcake. As EIR documented at great length, Ledeen is not just a nasty American political operative, but had been brought into the service of one of the remnant fascist organizations of the Mussolini era, the Propaganda Two (P-2) freemasonic lodge. P-2, which was founded by avowed wartime fascist grandmaster Licio Gelli, is an outgrowth of the Venetian synarchist bankers network which runs international terrorism, and proceeds from the avowed aim of destroying all nation-states, particularly the United States. The P-2 network has been exposed over the past 20-plus years as the real center of international terrorism, including the left and right wings of the "strategy of tension" which carried out such atrocities as the 1980 Bologna bombing, and the assassination of former Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro.

Italian political life is riddled with assets, if not outright agents, of the P-2. Notable among them is Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi himself, whose membership card is a matter of public record. Given the prominence of P-2 influence in Italy, it should be no surprise that the Italians, under a Berlusconi government, were the ones who provided the cover of the forged Niger yellowcake documents, to support the Cheney-Bush war drive.

The question raised here is a fundamental one. The role of former P-2ers Ledeen and Berlusconi in promoting the war, underscores the reality that the drive for empire and world dictatorship, for which Cheney is a frontman, is in fact the project of an international synarchist oligarchy, the direct descendants of those banking families who funded Hitler and Mussolini, and created World War II. Cheney is undoubtedly a fascist thug, eager to carry out whatever wars, torture, and economic genocide are on the agenda of the desperate synarchist bankers. But the brains for these operations come from the top level of the heirs of the Venetian banking system, who know that they will destroy the United States as a republic by carrying out these plans.

The prime objective for all those patriots and world-citizens who wish to save this planet from a descent into a New Dark Age, is, of course, to remove Dick Cheney from office. But exposing the roots of Cheney policies in the global Venetian synarchist banking system, is a crucial concomitant, if we are to get the alternative, FDR-like policy put into effect.




How would the neocon think tanks view martial law? Michael Ledeen, a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, and close and trusted White House adviser, has this to say on p. 173 of his book Machiavelli on Modern Leadership: Why Machiavelli’s Iron Rules Are As Timely and Important Today As Five Centuries Ago: “Paradoxically, preserving liberty may require the rule of a single leader – a dictator – willing to use those dreaded 'extraordinary measures,' which few know how, or are willing, to employ."

According to the Boston Globe, Ledeen in a 2003 speech to the American Enterprise Institute, asserted our nation’s insatiable lust for war by claiming that "All the great scholars who have studied American character have come to the conclusion that we are a warlike people and that we love war. . .What we hate is not casualties but losing." Did anyone in the media ever challenge an administration spokesman to defend Ledeen’s staggeringly wrongheaded, anti-American values? Did any of the (self-described) scholars at AEI that day ask why the GD fool would say such a thing? President Bush, for his part has personally offered these congratulations to the AEI: “At the American Enterprise Institute, some of the finest minds in our nation are at work on some of the greatest challenges to our nation. You do such good work that my administration has borrowed 20 such minds.”

The leaders of the War Machine – with their gulags, their lies, their senseless, immoral war – do not treat enemies and purported enemies terribly well. In the event of martial law, it would be naïve indeed to suspect that they would treat Americans any better. Patriots – left, right and center – should unite under the American flag to stop the War Machine today while they still can. The impeachment of Bush and Cheney is the obvious place to start. We, the people, should demand it of the US Congress, just as statesmen and citizens of their time demanded the Bill of Rights. Congress should be ordered, as well, to act responsibly and responsively and in the best interest of the sovereign Republic of the United States of America, not in the interest of neocon warmongers.


"Italy's Top Spy Names Freelance Agent as Source of Forged Niger-Iraq"

... Uranium Documents


http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytim ...

Italy's Top Spy Names Freelance Agent as Source of Forged Niger-Iraq Uranium Documents

November 4, 2005 by ELAINE SCIOLINO and ELISABETTA POVOLEDO

ROME, Nov. 3 - Italy's spymaster identified an Italian occasional spy named Rocco Martino on Thursday as the disseminator of forged documents that described efforts by Iraq to buy uranium ore from Niger for a nuclear weapons program, three lawmakers said Thursday.

The spymaster, Gen. Nicolò Pollari, director of the Italian military intelligence agency known as Sismi, disclosed that Mr. Martino was the source of the forged documents in closed-door testimony to a parliamentary committee that oversees secret services, the lawmakers said.

Senator Massimo Brutti, a member of the committee, told reporters that General Pollari had identified Mr. Martino as a former intelligence informer who had been "kicked out of the agency." He did not say Mr. Martino was the forger.

The revelation came on a day when the Federal Bureau of Investigation confirmed that it had shut down its two-year investigation into the origin of the forged documents.


http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/002983.html

Laura Rozen: "The (Niger forgeries) Report that Wasn't"

For weeks in the run-up to the Libby indictment last Friday, reports swirled in the blogosphere and some wires. They contended that CIA leak prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald had “widened his probe” to include investigating the origins of the Niger yellowcake forgeries themselves. They spoke of Fitzgerald getting ahold of a secret Italian parliamentary report that reportedly fingered a gang of American neoconservatives and aides to Ahmad Chalabi as being behind the Niger forgeries.

...

There’s just one problem: Not only has Fitzgerald not received such a report or even indicated he has any interest in one. There is no Italian parliamentary report, published or unpublished, on the Niger forgeries. In fact, until today, there has been no Italian parliamentary investigation of the Niger forgeries, or the claim promoted by the Italian military intelligence organization Sismi to the CIA and other western intelligence agencies that Iraq was seeking vast quantities of yellowcake uranium in Niger.

...

A reporter with the Italian newspaper Repubblica, which published a blockbuster series on the origins of the Niger forgeries last week, said that he heard rumors of such a report while in Washington this past summer, and went back to Italy and checked them out with his sources. He was left scratching his head. Not only is there no such report, there is as yet no such Italian parliamentary investigation. Sismi’s director Nicolo Pollari was interviewed by the Italian parliamentary committee overseeing the intelligence services on Thursday, in a closed-door session.

...

The Italian military intelligence organization Sismi reported that Iraq had signed a contract to purchase 500 tons of yellowcake uranium from Niger to the CIA in October 2001 and February 2002. It also reported those claims to Britain’s foreign intelligence service, the MI6, which reported them back to Washington. A motley crew including a senior Sismi officer, a former Sismi officer turned intelligence peddler (Rocco Martino), and a Sismi asset at the Niger embassy in Rome were identified by Repubblica as having collaborated to assemble the Niger forgeries, after staging a robbery on New Year’s Day 2001 to get official Niger embassy letterhead and a diplomatic codebook. Martino reportedly sold the dossier of forgeries to the French, the British, attempted but failed to sell them to the American embassy in Rome, and to an Italian reporter working for a Berlusconi owned magazine.


Lets hope Fitzgerald really does stay un-compromised, period because everyone knows from reading it Cheney deflected the blame to Italy.

The real forgers were NOT mentioned ie Duane Claridge so you can immediately see it.....total fucking whitewash in progress and its going to take a huge entity/army to get this bastard once and for all.

Notice how there was never any mention of....MICHAEL LEDEEN, mossad etc....

More about the Whitewash....you can spot them a damn mile away now.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051103/wl_mideast_af ...

"no one here has any recollection of Niger and uranium being discussed"


http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com /

QUESTION: Thank you. Any more explanation of the Berlusconi-President discussion about Italian intelligence on Iraq -- is this to say that Mr. Fitzgerald's finding that the Niger claim had its genesis in Italian intelligence was wrong?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Mr. Fitzgerald's -- I'll have to look back at what his finding was. I don't recall the specifics of that.

QUESTION: Fitzgerald found that what we had been calling British intelligence, the document -- the forged document --

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Maybe I missed that. I don't think so. I don't think so.

QUESTION: -- alleging an Iraq --

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Okay, I don't think he did.

QUESTION: I'm wrong on this?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think he --

QUESTION: That's not ringing any bells.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Yes.

QUESTION: It's not ringing any bells with other people either.

QUESTION: No, it is, it is. And I can't remember if it's Fitzgerald or somebody else, but there's this is the central issue is --

QUESTION: The central issue was --

QUESTION: -- the source of the --

QUESTION: The source of the forged document was Italy, who handed it to --

SCOTT McCLELLAN: No, the -- we actually briefed on the source of the information back in July of 2003, and the source was the National Intelligence Estimate and British Intelligence. That was the basis for the reference in the President's State of the Union address.

QUESTION: Fitzgerald found an Italian tie, and I presume this is what the discussion between the President and Berlusconi was about.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Yes, they -- like I said they -- Prime Minister Berlusconi brought it up, and as they indicated, that there wasn't any documents that were provided to us on Niger and uranium by --

QUESTION: Wait, no documents or no intelligence?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: The press report out of Italy is a transcription -- it's a transcription of the forged documents, not the actual documents themselves. But Berlusconi said yesterday was, no information passed from Italy to the United States.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Yes, I think he was accurately reflecting what he indicated in the meeting.

QUESTION: So that accurately characterizes the President's position, that the United States never received any intelligence --

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, Prime Minister Berlusconi was reflecting that within the meeting, and we've previously said in regards to a question that came up about a meeting here at the White House that no one here has any recollection of Niger and uranium being discussed at that meeting, much less any documents being provided.



http://neworleans.cox.net/cci/newsnational/nationa ...
Italian Lawmaker Says Country's Secret Service Warned U.S. That Iraq Uranium Documents Were Fake


"Hadley told a press briefing that he had briefly met the head of Italy's SISMI secret intelligence service, Nicolo Pollari, on September 9, 2002 in a "courtesy call" aimed at getting to know his new colleague.

"There was a meeting in Washington on that date. I did attend a meeting with him," Hadley said in response to a question about a report published last week in the Italian center-left newspaper La Repubblica, which disclosed the meeting.

"It was, so far as we can tell from our records, about less than 15 minutes. It was a courtesy call. Nobody participating in that meeting or asked about that meeting has any recollection of a discussion of natural uranium, or any recollection of any documents being passed. And that's also my recollection," he said."
AFP News
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051103/pl_afp/usital ...

Well Hadley, I'm sure there was a meeting....and I'm also sure you took the Niger forgeries to Frederick Fleitz.

I mean, you wouldn't LIE about everything would you? And attempt to get executive priveledge to save your ass? Nah, not you Hadley, who lied about going to Italy to begin with!

http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp11012005.html

November 1, 2005

Berlusconi's Halloween Visit
The Plame Affair Leads to Rome
By GARY LEUPP

"All roads lead to Rome," and it seems that Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation into the Plame Affair, and more broadly the lies used to hoodwink the American people into supporting a criminal war on Iraq, will also trudge down the Appian Way lined this Halloween with the ghosts of crucified Iraqis.

The Italian newspaper La Repubblica has recently published an exposé alleging in essence that the Italian military intelligence agency SISMI (Servizio per le Informazioni e la Sicurezza Militare) at the specific behest of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi provided bogus intelligence to the Bush neocons in order to curry favor with the U.S. and to abet the relentless drive for war between 9-11 and the March 2003 invasion. This follows an Italian parliamentary report released in part to the public in July concerning the forged Niger uranium documents at the heart of the Plame Affair. These, which purport to show a deal between Baghdad and Niger for the purchase of huge quantities of yellowcake, were it seems produced in the Italian capital.

The report names four men as the likely forgers of the documents (Michael Ledeen, Dewey Clarridge, Ahmed Chalabi and Francis Brookes) and suggests that the forgeries may have been planned at December 2001 gathering in Rome involving Ledeen and SISMI chief Nicolò Pollari. Also in attendance at that meeting: Larry Franklin, Harold Rhode, Manucher Ghorbanifar, Antonio Martino and others including a former senior official of the Revolutionary Guard in Iran. Here is a true rogues' gallery.

Michael Ledeen: neocon columnist, National Review Online contributing editor, specialist on the thought of Machiavelli and on Italian fascism, former employee of the Pentagon, the State Department and the National Security Council, was involved in the transfer of arms to Iran during the Iran-Contra affair. Active in the American Enterprise Institute, Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), and Center for Democracy in Iran (CDI). Advocates regime change by force in Iran and Syria.

Nicolò Pollari: Author of many publications on legal and economic matters, investigation techniques and intelligence. Tax law Professor at the Mediterranean University of Reggio Calabria. SISMI head since October 2001.

Dewey Clarridge: former CIA operative, famous in mid-1980s for his role in the Iran-Contra Affair. Head of CIA's Latin America division 1981-84, directed the mining of Nicaragua's harbors and helped organize the Contras. Indicted in November 1991 on seven counts of perjury and false statements, pardoned by first president Bush Christmas Eve 1992.

Ahmad Chalabi: convicted swindler, leader of U.S.-funded Iraqi National Congress, neocon ally, presently one of two deputy prime ministers in Iraqi government.

Francis Brookes: member of the "Rendon Group," a "public relations" body formed by the Pentagon engaged to promote Chalabi and the Iraqi National Congress.

Larry Franklin: colonel in USAF reserve, subordinate to Douglas Feith in Defense Department, Middle East specialist, under arrest for espionage for Israel.

Harold Rhode: Pentagon official, Middle East specialist, Ledeen protégé, American Enterprise Institute, heavy neocon.

Manucher Ghorbanifar: Iranian exile, arms dealer, one-time CIA operative distrusted by CIA since 1980s. Key figure in the Iran-Contra scandal.

Antonio Martino: Founding member of Forza Italiano (Berlusconi's political party), Professor of Economics, adjunct scholar with the Heritage Foundation, Italian Defense Minister.




"Previous versions of the report were redacted and had all the names removed, though it was possible to guess who was involved. This version names Michael Ledeen as the conduit for the report and indicates that former CIA officers Duane Clarridge and Alan Wolf were the principal forgers. All three had business interests with Chalabi."

Alan Wolf died about a year and a half ago of cancer. He served as chief of the CIA's Near East Division as well as the European Division, and was also CIA chief of station in Rome after Clarridge. According to my source, "he and Clarridge and Ledeen were all very close and also close to Chalabi." The former CIA officer says Wolf "was Clarridge's Agency godfather. Significantly, both Clarridge and Wolf also spent considerable time in the Africa division, so they both had the Africa and Rome connection and both were close to Ledeen, closing the loop."

A veteran of the Iran-Contra scandal, Ledeen played an important role in the Iran-Contra "arms for hostages" scandal by setting up meetings between the American government and the Iranian arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar. Not all that unexpected coming from a self-proclaimed advocate of Machiavelli's amoralism. Today, Ledeen is among the most visible and radical neoconservative ideologues whose passion for a campaign of serial "regime-change" in the Middle East is undiminished by the Iraqi debacle. Just as the Roman senator Cato the Elder finished his perorations with the command "Carthage must be destroyed," so Michael "Creative Destruction" Ledeen closes his hopped-up warmongering essays with "Faster, please!," an exhortation presumably addressed to his confreres in the Bush administration.

Ledeen has kept the neocon faith – and the same friends – for all these years. He's still buddies with Ghorbanifar. In December 2001, he had a meeting in Rome with Ghorbanifar in the company of the Pentagon's top Iran specialist, Larry Franklin, and Harold Rhode, assigned to the Office of Net Assessment, a Pentagon think tank. Also at the Rome conclave: a number of Ghorbanifar's Iranian friends, including a former senior official of the Revolutionary Guard. Rounding out the distinguished guest list, we have the Italian delegation, consisting of SISMI head honcho Nicolo Pollari, the head of Italy's military intelligence agency, and Italian Defense Minister Antonio Martino, a neocon favorite. Once again, Ledeen plays the middleman – but what kind of a deal was he trying to negotiate?

more
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10571.htm


At the beginning of 2001, a few weeks before George Bush took office, there was a break-in at the Niger embassy in Rome. Strangely, nothing of value was taken. Months later came 9/11 and a month after that, as George Bush wondered how to get back at the terrorists, a report from the Italian security service (Sismi) reached the CIA: Iraq was seeking to buy uranium.

Disappointingly for the neocons, the CIA sent Ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger to check the story: he reported that it was nonsense. When the story was repeated by Bush, Wilson went public. His wife, CIA agent Valerie Plame, was then outed by the White House. Hence Rove's predicament.

An organisation called the Office of Special Plans (OSP) was set up in the Pentagon by Douglas Feith, a former consultant to Israel's Likud party, to prepare for the war. In the words of Robert Baer, a distinguished former CIA man, it was a "competing intelligence shop at the Pentagon"..."if you didn't like the answer you're getting from the CIA". In short, bogus stories would get a second chance at the OSP.

A clue to the ancestry of these black arts can be found in 1980, when right-wing Republicans wanted Ronald Reagan elected. They publicised a story that Billy Carter, the then President Jimmy Carter's colourful brother, had received $50,000 (£28,000) from the Libyan government.

The story was always denied by the President and no evidence of the payment was found, but the story helped to elect Reagan. Its source? Sismi, and an associate of a man called Michael Ledeen.



First of all, I am not a leftist. Secondly, the sources for the quotes of former CIA and DIA agent Philip Giraldi were my interviews of him, as indicated in the correctly transcribed entry on the Wikipedia page, and which I provided the mp3 link for. Fourth, I am happy that the US is no longer part of the British Empire.

As far as Ledeen and the Niger uranium forgeries, Giraldi explained in the interviews that the "couple of CIA agents" were paid in foreign accounts and that Fitzgerald had "already found the money trail." Ledeen's connections to the Office of Special Plans and Sismi are well documented, he attended a number of meetings in Italy with Harold Rhode, who "practically lived out of (Iranian spy) Ahmad Chalabi's office," Manucher Ghorbanifar and guilty Israeli spy Larry Franklin, around the time the Italians began passing on the (already debunked) story back to the US.

As Josh Marshall put it in The Hill:

"he intelligence reports that came in to Washington in late 2001 were from Italian military intelligence, SISMI. The other detail, according to intelligence sources I’ve spoken to, is that those reports turned out to be text transcriptions of Niger forgeries that didn’t surface in Rome until almost a year later...

From the very beginning, American suspicions about a Niger-Iraq trade in uranium were based on what turned out to be the forged documents. And the text transcriptions of those documents came in from Italian intelligence...

Burba, the Italian journalist who eventually brought the forgeries to the U.S. Embassy in Rome, got them from an unnamed Italian “security consultant.” His name turns out to be Rocco Martino, a retired SISMI operative. And as I mentioned last week, last summer, my colleagues and I conducted a series of in-person interviews with him.

It has sometimes been suggested in the Italian press that Martino himself is the forger. But he told us a different story — one that was corroborated by another participant in the handling of the documents. Martino told us that the documents came from a still-serving SISMI colonel, whom he named."

But where did they originate? Giraldi's partner, Vincent Cannistraro, Director for Intelligence Programs at the National Security Council under Reagan, has maintained that they were produced in the US and has said, "You'd be very close," in answer to the question of whether Ledeen forged them.

Combined with what Giraldi had to say, it sure seems like enough to take to a grand jury to me.

Or is it not a crime to lie a country into war?




July Friday 29th 2005 (05h28) :
KARL ROVE, MICHAEL LEDEEN SPIES PROCURED FORGED NIGER DOCUMENTS


KARL ROVE and VARIOUS SPIES HE IS LINKED TO

Karl Rove’s only full-time foreign-policy advisor is Michael Ledeen, a rabid anti-Arab, pro-Israel activist. The FBI is investigating Ledeen for procuring forged documents (shown here) on nonexistent WMD, which George Bush used to justify his war on Iraq. When Joseph Wilson exposed the farce, Rove helped "out" Wilson’s CIA wife. Did Ledeen procure the documents for Rove, and how might he have done that? The story includes multinational stool pigeon Rocco Martino, Italian spy Francesco Pazienza, wanted CIA spy Robert Seldon Lady, and Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin, who’s under charges of giving US secrets to Israel.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Rove’s foreign-policy advisor, Michael Ledeen, proclaimed "the rightness of the fascist cause" in 1972. In 1984 he got George Bush Sr to appoint Iranian arms merchant and Iranian/Israeli double-agent Manucher Ghorbanifar as a middleman in the scandalous Iran-Contra affair. Ledeen has been a fixture in Washington and Israel ever since, advocating a modern version of the Crusades against Islamic nations. Based on what he has said and written, I believe Ledeen is insane.
Michael Ledeen, Rove’s "brain," is one of the leading advocates for a US attack on Iran. The Washington Post quoted Ledeen as saying that Rove told him, "Anytime you have a good idea, tell me." I guess that means we can look forward to the Bush team drumming up a war with Iran.

George Bush Jr., when he assumed the presidency in 2000, already knew that he was going to settle the family score with Saddam Hussein. His "brain," Rove, quickly enlisted Ledeen to trump up a causus belli.

EARLY 2000: ROCCO MARTINO AND THE FRENCH CONNECTION

...


The war is not just about oil, Israel’s fears/ambitions, or US hegemony. There are contracts and contractors in Iraq. Modern-day carpetbaggers with briefcases descended like a plague of scorpions on the poor, bloodied, bombed-out, grieving people of Iraq. They included the daughter of the war’s chief banshee -- Simone Ledeen, Michael’s young daughter -- shown in the photo, greeting with an impish smile another occupier at the Baghdad airport -- getting ready to lord it over the Iraqis as she tries out her new MBA in working for the CPA. Caption: "The creatures step out of the tripods." Maybe it’ll help to pay off those student loans -- huh, Michael?


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/10/19/14555 ...

Keyser Soze aka Michael Ledeen.

Michael Ledeen was one of the founders of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). He holds the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a think tank for AIPAC. He is co-founder of the Coalition for Democracy in Iran. As far back as 1980, the CIA allegedly listed Ledeen as an agent of influence of Israel. Ledeen is the main foreign policy advisor to Karl Rove. Ledeens main obsession seems to be to overthrow Iran.

In 1972 he published the book Universal Fascism, in which he expounds upon "the rightness of the fascist cause." In Universal Fascism, Ledeen first builds his case that fascism was the "20th Century Revolution" and that "people yearn for the real thing - revolution". It's the blueprint for a fascist revolution.

In 1980 he collaborated with Francesco Pazienza of SISMI and P-2 in the "BillyGate" affair. This is the same Pazienze who was recently found out to belong to the parallel intelligence agency in Italy. In 1985 Pazienza was found guilty of political manipulation, forgery, and the protection of terrorists. Ledeen is identified in court documents as an agent of SISMI.

The Pentagon downgraded Ledeen's security clearances from Top Secret-SCI to Secret in the mid-1980s, after the FBI began a probe of Ledeen for passing classified materials to a foreign
country, believed to be Israel.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/MichaelLedeen.html


"Everything You Need to Know About Michael Ledeen"


April 7, 2005

Everything You Need to Know About Michael Ledeen
By Katherine Yurica

Would you be surprised to find that a man who was deeply involved in the Iran-Contra scandal during the Reagan Administration, a man who is the darling of the Bush White House and is an adviser to Karl Rove, a man who loves Machiavelli and studies him, a neo-conservative who has close ties to one of America’s leading “Christian” Dominionists—Pat Robertson, and a man who called Pearl Harbor “lucky” and a providentially inspired event—may be the man who is behind the forging of the Niger documents that convinced America to launch a preemptive strike against Iraq?

<snip>

It would be foolish for America’s political strategists and congressional leaders to ignore Michael Ledeen and his interpretation of Machiavelli. Mr. Ledeen speaks from the cutting edge of a group of men and women who desire nothing more than to reconstruct America in their own image. This nation is in grave danger. Ledeen belongs to a group of men, including Harry Jaffa, Pat Robertson, Willmoore Kendall to Allan Bloom, who, according to Shadia Drury, scholar and author of Leo Strauss and the American Right, share “the view that America is too liberal and pluralistic and that what it needs is a single orthodoxy that governs the public and private lives of its citizens.”<1>

The belief in a single voice that governs the public should cause all Americans to understand these men want to convert this nation to a permanent dictatorship. Their inspirer was Leo Strauss, a professor who taught Machiavellian methods to many of them at the University of Chicago. In fact, Paul Wolfovitz earned his doctorate under Strauss and many of the neo-cons in the White House studied under him. Strauss believed every society needs a “single public orthodoxy.” As Drury put it, “a set of ideas that defines what is true and false, right and wrong, noble and base.” Strauss believed that the role of religion was indispensable to the political success of a nation. For a political society had to hold together and act as a unit in lock step with the leader. Strauss believed that religion was the means to inculcate the desired ideas into the minds of the masses. He didn’t care what religion—just as long as it was a religion that could link itself to the political order.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. You are so good!
Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Alright you it's your turn where's those Plame threads?
:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Some of the DUers
who are far more talented than me have them "saved." Maybe someone will post them!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Here You Go
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Thank you.
I knew someone would read this thread and post them!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
54. I thought those were the days, but perhaps
These are the days! (Hope springs eternal)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
100. Links don't work for me.
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #100
108. You're Right
Don't quite understand it as I copied them from my journal. However I just checked and if you go to my journal, the links for 1-18 work (just checked) will have to try and fix the others

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. Hmmm, has the Robert Scheer thread, from quite a ways back,

gotten disappeared? I know I had this bookmarked, but some of my bookmarked links now go nowhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. This was an interesting post by DUer Peace Patriot that I saved....

Manucher Ghorbanifar (the Iran-Contra arms dealer) was also at that...
Edited on Sat Dec-03-05 07:54 AM by Peace Patriot

...meeting (in Rome), which may be the key to what-all took place there.

I don't think it was just about forging the Niger docs--CRUDE forgeries at that (also important--quite possibly). I suspect that it was about procuring nuke materials or components (or weapons) and smuggling them into Iraq after the invasion, to be found by Judith Miller in her high profile "hunt" for WMDs in Iraq with the US troops (on a special embed contract signed by Donald Rumsfeld).

The WMD-planting theory of Traitorgate goes back to the Niger forgeries. The participants at the Rome meeting could have produced better forgeries. Why didn't they? (The flaws in the docs were ridiculous, and easily detectable.) The motive could have been to draw the CIA out, to get them to commit to a public position of no nukes in Iraq, and to discredit them forever when, at the other end of this plot, the planted nukes were "found"--a deceit that would also have greatly benefited Bush and Blair politically. (Imagine what the political landscape would look like now, if WMDs had been "found.")

Manucher Ghorbanifar was likely there (at the Rome meeting) for his expertise from a lifetime of dirty arms dealing. (I don't know what his talent at forgery might be, but he is known for dirty, deceptive, politically important, covert arms procurement and movement.)

Newmax has an interesting posting from Oct. '03, quoting Ladeen and Ghorbanifar. I think all Traitorgate researchers need to read this.

Title: "Agency 'Blew' Chance to Recover Iraqi U235," by Charles R. Smith, 10/21/03.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/10/20/213705.shtml

Here's the lead...

"According to a leading Middle East expert, the CIA missed a golden opportunity to uncover a cache of Iraqi enriched uranium.

"Michael Ledeen, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, said Manucher Ghorbanifar, a figure from the Contra-hostage arms deals from the Reagan years, contacted him.

"According to Ghorbanifar, a Shiite Iraqi and a former Iraqi military officer in Iraq had access to enriched uranium. The uranium was reportedly part of a cache hidden by Saddam, some of which had been smuggled to Iran by the Shiite and the Iraqi officer.

"However, the U.S. intelligence agency showed little or no interest in checking out the report of weapons-grade uranium at an Iraqi nuclear site.

"'The CIA dropped the ball,' stated Ledeen...." (MORE)

--------------------

First I'd heard of this. I wasn't following Ledeen and Ghorbanifar back then (in '03). (Perhaps we should have been checking Neo-Con websites.)

The upshot of this article is that the CIA didn't trust Ghorbanifar and refused to deal with him--but met with the contact, demanded a sample of this "weapons-grade uranium," which was not produced, and their skepticism drove the contact back into hiding. Lost opportunity, according to Newmax, Ledeen and Ghorbanifar.

The dates of this incident are not mentioned anywhere in the article. All we can know is: sometime after the invasion (because the US is within Iraq, looking for WMDs) and before Oct. 21, 2003 (date of the article). Ledeen tries to peddle this uranium claim in several ways. Tries the CIA. They put him off ("we're looking into it"). Tries David Kay (who doesn't return Ghorbanifar's phone calls.) Then goes back to the CIA.

Here's how I read this: Ledeen-Ghorbanifar were trying to set the CIA up--to get them to buy into Iraq having uranium (that Ledeen-Ghorbanifar may or may not have successfully procured and planted in Iraq), or to buy into a false story that would then be discredited. The CIA smelled a rat, demanded evidence, and, when no evidence was produced, probably realized what was going on. They didn't "lose an opportunity." They judged the claim to be yet more crap from Ledeen-Ghorbanifar.

Interestingly, Ledeen points the whole thing (this incident) at Iran (where the uranium supposedly was smuggled to, from Iraq), and says some self-revealing things about the CIA. ("The CIA has a habit of turning on people who help them. They view the only reliable sources are those that they have recruited.") (??)

Newsmax then quotes Douglas Brown of the "Nathan Hale Institute" who rants about the Democrats at the CIA.

The article ends on a curious note--with a "senior intelligence source from a U.S. ally" suggesting that the reason the CIA lost interest was that it might have been American uranium. (?!)

I don't have enough information to parse this article fully--for what it may be inadvertently revealing about Ledeen-Ghorbanifar plots re: the Iraq war (or for what might be seeable with hindsight--in view of all that we know now). But it sure seems to support one of the main points of the WMD-planting theory of Traitorgate, that they were dealing in actual weapons components, not just in documents.

-------

(Note: The WMD-planting theory of Traitorgate is that there are signs of panic and rush in the Bushites' outing Plame--for instance, they called at least SIX journalists in the week of July 7-14, to find a patsy reporter to out her--and then, four days later, outed the entire CIA WMD-counter-proliferation project, Brewster-Jennings--overkill, if the motive was just to punish Wilson for his article. This panic was caused by something other than Wilson's article, that happened at almost the same time. The article was published July 6, 2003. On July 7, Tony Blair was informed that the Brits' chief WMD expert, Dr. David Kelly, who had been whistleblowing to the BBC (late May 2003) about the exaggerated pre-war WMD intelligence, "could say some uncomfortable things" (could say, not HAD said). If what Kelly knew over and above the "sexed up" pre-war intel (what he "could say" had to do with the WMD-planting plot, that could have been the source of the Bushites fear and panic about Plame--it was fear that their deceptive WMD-planting scheme and its foiling would be exposed. Plame was outed July 14. Kelly was found dead July 18. His office and computers were searched. Four days later, on July 22, Brewster-Jennings was also outed.

(There is also an intriguing connection between Kelly and Judith Miller. Miller had used Dr. Kelly as a major quoted source in her book "Germs," and it was to Miller that Kelly sent one of his last emails, on the day he died, July 17, warning of the "many dark actors playing games." Kelly was an old hand at Iraq WMDs, knew the country well, had friends there, and was a top scientist who strongly believed in his work of counter-proliferation. He would have been in a good position to discover and investigate such a plot. There were reports of such a plot (US plot to plant WMDs in Iraq, that was foiled) from Islamic news sources a few months before he began whistleblowing.)



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #43
67. There's a major flaw in this theory about planted weapons grade uranium
The isotopes in each batch of Highly Enriched Uranium (HEU) are so specific that it's possible for tests to determine exactly what kind of centrifuge equipment produced them. It's a signature that would have shown that planted U.S.-sourced or other third-country produced HEU was not made in Iraq.

Also, Iraq didn't have functioning centrifuges. Those also would have had to be planted, or if no longer in existence, their fate determined.

I suppose it is possible that someone could get their hands on a bunch of old, surplus A.Q. Khan centrifuges (Khan was the source for the pre-Gulf War Iraqi HEU program, along with that pursued by Libya, Iran, and a NK), and a batch of HEU produced in similar machines in Pakistan, and plant all this stuff at various sites in Iraq. Seems like that would be a very complex undertaking involving a lot of people - likely to blow up in their faces. So, even if there was the beginnings of a plan to do this, it didn't get very far.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. The Khan network was exactly what I was thinking of....

when I (re)read this. Also, Plame's alleged involvement in investigating same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #69
78. No question, Plame would have been "in the way" of efforts to plant or exaggerate evidence of
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 10:03 AM by leveymg
Iraq AND Iran WMD. I have long been convinced that was the true reason why she was "outed" along with BJ and CIA-CPD, more broadly, when on June 1, 2001 Armitage leaked information to Rupert Murdoch's Financial Times that the US was aware of AQ Khan's trade nuclear and missile technology with North Korea.

While I donot feel that I have adequate information to conclude that there actually was an effort to plant false evidence of a resconstituted nuclear program in Iraq, I am convinced that such efforts would have had to utilize HEU produced on Khan equipment, as Khan had earlier been Saddam's primary supplier.

Recall that Tenet and Armitage had met about eight weeks earlier with Gen. Mushariff in Pakistan. Another major related development at about that time was overtures from Khadafi to turn over his nuclear program in response to threats from the incoming Administration that they were going to use military and covert action to remove him if he didn't cooperate.

There's an excellent chronology of the Khan network here: http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=17420

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #78
83. No question, Plame would have been "in the way" of efforts to plant or exaggerate evidence of
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 10:51 AM by leveymg
I have long been convinced that was the true reason why she was "outed" along with BJ and CIA-CPD, more broadly, when on June 1, 2001 Armitage leaked information to Rupert Murdoch's Financial Times that the US was aware of AQ Khan's trade nuclear and missile technology with North Korea.

While I donot feel that I have adequate information to conclude that there actually was an effort to plant false evidence of a resconstituted nuclear program in Iraq, I am convinced that such efforts would have had to utilize HEU produced on Khan equipment, as Khan had earlier been Saddam's primary supplier.

Recall that Tenet and Armitage had met about eight weeks earlier with Gen. Mushariff in Pakistan. Another major related development at about that time was overtures from Khadafi to turn over his nuclear program in response to threats from the incoming Administration that they were going to use military and covert action to remove him if he didn't cooperate.

There's an excellent chronology of the Khan network here: http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=17420
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #78
114. Thanks for the informative link! People should also be aware that...

Valerie Plame has been giving numerous interviews where she repeatedly states that she was working on uncovering suppliers of nuclear technology and components to Iraq. If that's not the Khan network then it must be something very similar. She also states that the high-level co-conspirators responsible for outing her are guilty of treason. Just last night on Maher's "Real Time" she indicated that they should face the death penalty. Not just "perhaps they should be put to death" but she vigorously shook her head up and down with an excited look on her face when Maher suggested it, as if to say: "yes, what I was working on was THAT important!".

Notice that the Bush Administration would not even participate in a Congressional hearing last year to determine whether the Khan case should be considered closed:

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa27811.000/hfa27811_0.HTM

Recent reports indicate Khan supplied nuclear technology to Syria:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3251768,00.html

This probably led to the recent bombing of a Syrian nuclear facility.

Could it be that the former oil executives in the Bush Administration (Rice, Cheney, Bush) need to wheel out Khan as needed in order to perpetrate aggression in the Middle East?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #114
124. The IAEA can not confirm a Syrian nuclear program.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3466373,00.html

I would agree with you, however, that at this late point in the game -- years after it was unmasked and supposedly suppressed by the Musharaff regime -- if the AQ Khan network is still proliferating, particularly to Syria, it's acting as an agent provocateur.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. excuse my ingorance...
but does this have anything to do with Sibel Edmonds?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Absolutely.
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 03:42 PM by seemslikeadream
"Scott Horton:

erhaps your case is tied in with the AIPAC spy scandal?

"Sibel Edmonds: Absolutely. And I cannot go into any details. … But even the AIPAC spy scandal, as far as I'm reading today, is just touching the surface of it. It's going only to a certain degree. It doesn't go high enough, in what it involves and how far it goes, and that's as far, and the best – as far as I can explain."


http://www.weekendinterviewshow.com/InterviewDisplay.aspx?i=124


The following is the transcript of my Aug. 13 interview with the courageous FBI linguist/whistleblower Sibel Edmonds. What connection does Sibel Edmonds' story have to the prosecution of Larry Franklin, Steve Rosen, and Keith Weissman of the Pentagon/AIPAC spy scandal? And for that matter, to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001? The answer has something to do with international drug, weapon, and money-laundering rings, and their ties to terrorists and unnamed officials of the Departments of State and Defense. This mess also goes back to at least 1997. Sibel says that when the truth comes out, it will make the AIPAC case look "lame" by comparison. Who are the State Department officials 1 and 2 and the Defense Department officials 1 and 2 referred to in the AIPAC indictments<1><2>? Are they the same unnamed officials in the new Vanity Fair piece about Edmonds? Are these the same neocons who hired Iranian spy Ahmed Chalabi, lied us into war with Iraq, drew up the occupation plans, and leaked the name of Valerie Plame to the press? Is the quashed federal investigation out of Chicago into corruption on the part of high-level members of both parties, referred to in the article as "the reason" Sibel was gagged by John Ashcroft, related to the investigation of terrorist financing by former agent Robert Wright? What does Patrick "Bulldog" Fitzgerald know about it? Which countries involved in the international heroin market are the subject of such "sensitive diplomatic relations" that their involvement in 9/11 should not be known to the people of the United States? Uzbekistan? Tajikistan? Kyrgyzstan? Pakistan? Kosovo?



Sibel Edmonds and other Whistleblowers Group
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=344

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. thanks... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. And it would make the AIPAC case look lame, actually.
SH: I see. I want to get a promise out of you that when they finally lift this gag order, that I get to interview you first. I have a long list of questions that I can't ask.

SE: Sure. And believe me, once they lift the state-secrets privilege and once the court case actually begins and we have the witnesses and we can subpoena documents, it will be public. And it will be major. And it would make the AIPAC case look lame, actually.

SH: Oh, it will make the AIPAC case look lame?

SE: Correct.

SH: I can't wait. Let me go ahead and share with the people some things I know you're not allowed to talk about but are in the Vanity Fair article. Now talked to the debriefers from the different agencies, the FBI, the congressional investigators and, I believe, also the Sept. 11 commissioners, and they shared with him some interesting allegations that Sibel is not allowed to talk about or she'll go to prison. Most importantly that Dennis Hastert, the speaker of the House of Representatives, at least is implicated, in cooperating on some very important issues with the ATC, and that one of the phone calls overheard was that one of the ATC officials bragging that they bought the Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert for $500,000, they gave him half a million in order to change his vote on an Armenian genocide resolution. I think we all know the genocide against the Armenians by the Turks in the 19-teens, and various states around the world have passed resolutions condemning that, and the Americans were about to pass a resolution – in fact, there's a pretty substantial Armenian population in California and the press all the time that this was happening pointed out that it was pretty obvious that Dennis Hastert was pushing this condemnation of Turkey for the genocide of the Armenians was in order to help some Republicans in California get reelected. But then, at the last minute he changed his mind and withdrew the resolution – right as a major helicopter deal was going through – this resolution that would have made Turkey look really bad. And according to David Rose in Vanity Fair, Dennis Hastert got paid $500,000 to change his position on that. Am I going off the story anywhere Sibel? Can you comment either way?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #19
80. Sibel has said that it is all the same case
Just each one starts at a different place. The same players are involved in all 3.

-Hoot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #80
135. Here's one link that seems to tie much of it together....
via Turkey and drug money profits used to manufacture parts essential to nuclear weapons:

http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/06/swiss-aq-khan-story.html


...

Is it possible that the 'AQ Khan network' is actually a misnomer - in the most literal sense - that they used the wrong name? Perhaps it should be called the D. Rumsfeld Network. Or the D. Cheney Network. Or perhaps the R. Perle Network. Here's Stanton (talking about Sibel):

"US officials like Cheney and Rumsfeld—and those operating in and out of government, (and their counterparts in Pakistan and Turkey) took a Pontius Pilate approach to Pakistan’s black market acquisition of nuclear weapons components, as well as Turkey’s complicity in helping that cause through drug money profits, to include the illicit manufacture of parts essential to a nuclear weapon. According to Anwar Iqbal of UPI (October 2004), Turkish workshops “made the centrifuge motor and frequency converters used to drive the motor and spin the rotor to high speeds. These workshops imported subcomponents from Europe and elsewhere, and they assembled these centrifuge items in Turkey. Under false end-user certificates, the components were then shipped to Dubai…”"

...


This is also the crux of why it is essential to begin impeachment proceedings against Cheney and to get to the bottom of this nexus of corruption involving the neocons in our government.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. That's quite a collection of links there!
Several I've never even read before. It's almost enough to make a person think you've been waiting for this for quite some time now. :)

Thanks for the list. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:43 PM
Original message
FIVE FRICKING YEARS
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #66
91. High crime
Nothing less that public executions of the entire nest of spies and collaborators.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. No wonder dead-eye Dick was calling Chavez President
of Peru today. He was clearly distracted. The noose is approaching. Coffin also resigned yesterday. Time for dead eye Dick to lawyer up.

Great news H2O Man - thanks for your usual informed post.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. "lawyer up"
He did already. Cheney had hired private attorneys before meeting with Mr. Fitzgerald in June, 2004, to discuss a related scandal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. For this case n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. He will be
using the same legal team, if the administration can't derail this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Thanks
There's a gathering storm heading in the goons' direction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. So It Finally Comes Out
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 03:28 PM by Me.
AIPAC must be losing it's collective hair today. This is certainly info they didn't want to go public, how much influence they have on our foreign policy. From the MSNBC piece:

‘Lobbyists Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman have argued that the Israeli interest group played an unofficial but sanctioned role in crafting foreign policy and that Rice and others can confirm it. If they ultimately testify in court, the trial in federal court in suburban Alexandria, Va. could offer a behind-the-scenes look at the way U.S. foreign policy is crafted.’ Cont…

‘But defense attorneys suggested that top U.S. officials regularly used the lobbyists as a go-between as they crafted Middle East policy. If so, attorneys say, how are Rosen and Weissman supposed to know the same behavior that's expected of them on one day is criminal the next?’ cont…

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21599734

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. When the judge ruled
that the FISA documents indicated they were agents for a foreign power, everything changed. They couldn't play the "journalist" card -- neither being journalists -- and instead had to shift to try to prove they are agents of the administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. This Presents A Tricky Dilemma For AIPAC
As employers of these men, and the hinted at wink and a nod as regards their activities, will AIPAC come to be tarnished with the same brush, as being agents of a foreign power?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
45. AIPAC is a political construct from the donations of many organizations.
  If AIPAC should ever become tarnished or the brand "AIPAC" diminished suitably another construct could be created for the many donor organizations to funnel money into. Since lobbyists for AIPAC are not required to register agents of a foreign government, AIPAC II (if you will) would not suffer much of a setback.

PB
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
81. If the AIPAC defendants were to establish that they were carrying out Cheney-Bush policy directives,
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 10:44 AM by leveymg
planting false Iran WMD data in Pentagon files in a deception program coordinated with Israeli intelligence, that would prove that the Vice President and President's closest national security advisors committed treason. The same cabal deceived (some of) the Joint Chiefs, lied to (some in) Congress, and carried out an aggressive war pursuant to fraud, killing thousands of Americans and close to a million Iraqis in an illegal war that has bankrupted the countty. Make that Treason with a Capital Crimes T.

The next question is, would the Supreme Court buy into the defendant's argument that eveything the President does is legal, if the case got that far? Based on the Court's Hamdan decision, I don't believe SCOTUS would rule that way. I doubt such a case would reach trial, much less the appellate stage.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
129. There is another game they are more likely playing out as "agents" of the administration.
I find this intriguing.

Libby could have pulled this stunt, if directed.

This case is so much more obscure to public view, though, than "scooter's" even though it involves even higher stakes and a larger network of players.

I have to wonder just how confident the OSP network is about the future. They weren't confident enough to suggest this kind of tactic by "scooter" and political forces have declined since then.

I need to do some more reading. First question: who represents the defendants? Second question: who are the prosecutors?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #129
130. Since I am bookmarking this thread,....
,...I am going to add this link on Steven J. Rosen:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/07/04/050704fa_fact
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski,...a woman who should never fall through the cracks.
Incredibly, the FBI had not interviewed her AT THE TIME of this release (some time has certainly passed since).

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0901-09.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. Well, Me, the posts will start up soon - denying anyinfluence by Israel.
Even though the second paragraph that includes the words 'Israeli interest group' undoubtedly applies to AIPAC - it's Israel that is there by implication. There is a parallel interest group over there. So, we're approaching sensitive air and light.

We need to find out if Dick can have George sign any kind of Executive Order disallowing subpoenas or even a court case.

All the connections to invading Iran are in the heads and hands of the same group of people and their workers.

I think tonight or this weekend the lobbyists will get 'invited' on programs to deflect importance or imact. If not this weekend, soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. Indeed an overlap.
Also with the Sibel Edmonds case. And then it all ties up into a nice big picture. Let's hope the press is interested in exploring it all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. k&r
:bounce:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I love that graphic
Thanks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. It's missing a few names, but hopefully they (all) will be exposed soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. Hey Swampie, did you catch this pic of the cute couple?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
144. What a fitting portrait of my Senator....

to all the Democratic apologists out there, yes there are evil Democrats and DiFi is proving to be one of them. With all of the millions she and her war-profiteering husband have made off of the war, it is no wonder that she would rubberstamp a DOJ head who will no doubt continue the lawless, inhuman policies of the current administration, destroying the credibility of the United States when it comes to human rights.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Great stuff -thanks
Swamp Rat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Hey malaise!
:hi:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Hi Swamp Rat
Enough of that war criminal :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
Thanks for all your work H20 Man
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Thank you.
I'm proud to be part of a very talented, dedicated group of DUers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
36. Well, they can't really sweep this flaming elephant turd under the rug, now can they.
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 03:59 PM by BeHereNow
Can't wait to see Helen Thomas skewer Dana at the next WH news conference
on this one.
Bwahahah!!!!!!!
Thanks H20man, you made my day.
BHN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
countingbluecars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
37. It's threads like this one
that keep me here. I learn so much. Thanks to all for the wealth of information.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
41. It's been a long time coming.
I'll look forward to reading the rulers tonight.

Thanks for the post!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I'll be interested
in seeing if any of the corporate journalists cover the story now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. This will not get much play in the Corp Media.
It is not "sexy", "exciting", entertaining or simple. Complicated stories die quickly.
This story is for hard core pol junkies. It will drag on in the Courts for a few years & then
fade away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. Condi's subpoena
should make it unavoidable.

(And as an aside, I've never been more ashamed to have Feinstein as one of my senators as I am tonight.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
46. It always puzzled me that AIPAC was never required to register as an agent...
...of a foreign government. Zogby did a poll a few years back when the scandal broke:



The poll found 61% "strongly or somewhat agree" that AIPAC should be asked to register as a foreign agent and lose its tax exempt status, while only 12% strongly or somewhat disagree that it should. 27% were unsure on the issue.

A majority of people within almost every subgroup agrees. This includes 77% of 18-29-year-olds, 72% of Hispanics, and approximately two-thirds of independent voters, 50-64-year-olds, residents of the West region, Catholics, single adults, parents of children under 17, and men.

15% of Jewish Americans "strongly agreed" and 15% "strongly disagreed" with the statement that AIPAC should register as an agent of a foreign government and thereby lose its tax exempt status. However, 60% were unsure. Three times as many "Born Again Christians" agreed with the results than disagreed, with almost one-third unsure. These are the traditional pro-Israel bases of the Republican Party.


PB
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
48. that list reads like a who's who of neocons...can they ignore these subpoenas?
most people can't, but this list is not most people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Actually, they might.
These subpoenas go through the "Touhy regulations." The administration may very well try to shut the case down, by having department heads formally assert a privilege that justifies refusal to comply. This is in a risky area. The court makes the final decision, but the administration can try to force the DoJ to shut down the case based on "national security."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. And Judge Ellis
is no Reggie Walton
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. And we're into the territory of "graymail" type tactics again,
and hoping we get a Reggie Walton, and not a Scalia or Roberts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #59
71. That's Already A Lost Cause
Judge Ellis has done his best, in many aspects of this case, to be less than a circumspect jurist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #71
132. Would you give more detail on Judge Ellis?
He sentenced Franklin to over ten years in a plea situation. According to sources, Franklin has been the upstanding one.

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #50
75. It is my understanding that if the government refuses to allow these people to testify
that then the government has to withdrawal the charges against the defendants. The government might want to charge them with lesser or other charges, in oder to avoid having them testify.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
49. Kick for justice!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
51. Bookmarked!
Many great threads, all in one place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
53. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OxQQme Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Richter scale Aspenquake
shook them leaves all the way down to bare twigs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. **HEADLINE**
Ring of Fire Destroys Diseased Clump of Aspens at their Roots!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
57. Notice what the defense said.... what the two men did was normal aipac business
"For over two years, we have been explaining that our clients' conduct was lawful and completely consistent with how the U.S. government dealt with AIPAC and other foreign policy groups.

For a top official to release top secret data to a lobby firm that supports a foreign govt (and many would say at the behest of a foreign government) is "normal"?

This may be so, unfortunately. But was it the right thing to do?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #57
70. Business As Usual
Which needs to be noted and remarked upon, often. And I would imagine that this situation, where another nation's interests interfere with our own, would not please the American people if they were fully aware of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
60. And now DiFi and Chuck support the new AG who will quash any
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 09:59 PM by Hubert Flottz
real investigation of anything to do with any of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
61. Espionage...short for treason, eh. Interesting how all the puzzle
pieces fit together; even months and months later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
62. There needs to be House and Senate joint inquiries into this....
....with a Special Select Committee in the Senate like the Watergate Committee and testimony from Sibel Edmonds and others. If only the Dems would get with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #62
74. Powerful Dems are obstructing the path. That is the tragedy.
and an HRC presidency will acquit everyone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
63. Kick, R, and KUDOS to H20Man and SeemsLikeaDream
The two hardest working people in the good thread business!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
64. Let the squirming begin!
Open the can of worms!


K and R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
65. K&R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freefall Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
68. K&R and putting aside time to delve into all links later.
:kick:

And many thanks to the hardworking H2O Man and seemslikeadream!!


:yourock:

Peace,

freefall
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
72. Kick. Rob on WJ read this article this morning. KO needs to
work on it too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
73. The thing that's going to infuriate me is when key Democrats
are proven to have had sufficient info to blow the whistle long ago. But they played ball with the crime family.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
76. TRAITORS! That's all there is to say anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. Dontcha just harken back
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 09:11 AM by Turbineguy
to the days of Spiro Agnew who was merely a tax-cheat?

Then you have to wonder.... How is it that Osama bin Laden (dragging his dialysis machine along) has managed to evade capture this long?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
82. K & R for the hope that this may finally be the something to bring the rat bastards down!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. Sadly, I'm Wondering If Judge Ellis Did This On Purpose
and allowed in the possibility of the case being shut down, which would be a great help to the * admin. This situation is ripe for greymail. Which is just what the admin and the defendants want. Nobody wants to let the cat out of the bag, that our foreign policy is not our own or determined by what is best for the US.

Previous rulings in this case by this judge has not been in the interests of justice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #84
86. one wonders how much longer the lid can be kept on this boiling cess pool..
They are very good...but it's multi-national...and there must be good folks in other places working hard to connect dots and apply pressure in ways we don't yet know. Some of what we know is coming from those dedicated good souls and the folks here and on the liberal internets who are keeping the information flowing so that as each piece is uncovered and another phase moves forward we are kept informed of what went before.

K&R..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #86
93. The good thing is
that the government did not oppose having any of those defendants testify due to "national sercurity" reasons. Of course, that could come up. But it's a case that extends deeper and longer back than just during this recent set of events. It goes back to at least the Reagan era.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #84
133. The Pandora's Box was a greater fear in the Libby case, clearly.
I don't know what previous rulings you are talking about and I haven't seen any posted to date.

I won't pretend to know whether this is another positioning scheme or not.

However, from everything I have read,...and the sudden quiet among witnesses,...in addition to other information,...

I am figuring, something beyond the control of the network could be happening, here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
85. If Judge Ellis compels testimony
by exalted members of the Royal Privy Council like Kindasleazy and Abrams, inter alia, I predict that the White House will try to play the "National Security Privilege" card to trump the prosecution.

Assuming Judge Ellis denies that, expect an interlocutory appeal to the 4th or D.C. Circuit (depending on which has jurisdiction). Both courts are safely packed with Busheviks. Game over.

On the other hand, if the National Security Privilege fails and there is no interlocutory appeal, expect to see the Prosecution fold its tents.

Either way, the Israeli spies walk.

Sickening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #85
88. It Won't Have To Be Appealed
Judge Ellis is quite capable of giving the admin whatever it wants. And AIPAC, with all it's influence doesn't want its dirty laundry aired in public. Pressure will be brought to bear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. Yep. And the Israeli spies walk.
Like I said: sickening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
87. You do good work, waterman.
:thumbsup:

Thanks for the thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
90. Thank you K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
92. "They are saying they were playing an unofficial role for the Bush administration, which included
illegally passing classified documents to intelligence officers from a foreign country."

I'm sorry, is that not wartime treason? I thought being a wartime spy against your own country was an executable offense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. Of Course It Is
But Cheney, in particular, has been betraying his country and oath all along. He set up a secret government consisting of the executive branch and corporations only, he had an important NOC outed, he lied us into war. This is why impeaching him is so important. These crimes must not be allowed to stand.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. I agree.
This is not the government that our Constitution defines. It isn't our democracy.

I saw Joseph and Valerie Wilson on the one HBO show. Their comments were in line with what progressive DUers have been saying. Joe focused on how the group in power now is intent upon destroying our Constitutional democracy. Valerie noted that if the senior White House officials had shared her identity with a foreign journalist, everyone would agree it is treason. In the neocon/AIPAC espionage case, it is sharing classified military secrets with a foreign government.

I find the defendants' claim they didn't realize they were possibly violating any law to be an obnoxious lie. If one reads about the tactics they used when dining with Larry Franklin, for example -- where they moved from building to building, and attempted to avoid detection -- it is clear that they were consciously engaged in spying activities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
96. Kick.
I have been following all of these scandals for quite some time and can't begin to thank all of you who have the intellectual capacity to put all of the pieces together.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. agree....keeping all of this in memory when daily there's a new assault on
our reason is impossible. Without efforts of Du'ers who have kept the links and refresh our memories with commentary as each new part unfolds...it would all go down the memory whole.

This is what's so terrible about our M$M today and why the 1996 TeleCom Act was so devastating to our Democracy. It's one of the reasons that i turned against the Clintons after being one of their biggest defenders. In hindsight...loosening the regulations on our public airwaves by allowing media ownership consolidation (begun under Reagan) has allowed so much of what we are seeing now to go forward and metastasize with little or no accountability.

Many of us who have been following the Crime Families trail for years here on DU and other liberal sites can't keep up with it all so how can the average American who only sees a headline or two as each new treasonous act is exposed connect the dots and get a full picture? Without a media who will stay on these events and keep connecting the dots in a narrative form ..it all goes down the "memory hole." Even the Wall St. scandals and criminality fall into the same black hole with the average American knowing something is wrong and has been wrong for years with Wall St. and Banking schemes but could never put all the pieces together to demand that congress and FCC put tougher regulations in place. In fact the Gingrich Congress further eroded banking regulation put in place after Great Depression. Senators Dodd and lieberman were complicit in that.

What a mess....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
97. When all is said and done, it is astounding
that a relatively small group of people can be responsible for such a tremendous amount of damage in the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #97
102. It is.
It really is. It is unreal to think that this relatively small group of people are not only attempting to destroy the Constitution, but they are accomplishing their goal.And the elected officials in the House and Senate are afraid to challenge them on anything of consequence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
99. Finaly, the heart of the issue
is no longer able to be ignored.

Our government has always had the resources to buy off whoever needed to be bought off to secure the resources we covet, but a forced regime change in the region is not something the US needed, it is however something the right wing Likud needed.

Dig a little deeper and the forged Yellow Cake docs will float to the surface as well.

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
103. if one gives classified information to another country illegally
how is that punished?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. Some Who Have Done So Have Gone To The Electric Chair
Robert Hanssen, friend of Novakula, who gave documents to the Russians, is in prison, in solitary 23 hours a day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. Will Cond Rice et al go to jail?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #106
111. No.
I wish that the case would go forward, and show the general public the extent that this group has compromised our nation. But I do not think that there is any chance of Rice and the others being incarcerated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
104. Excellent background piece from Rolling Stone:
Even before the bombs fell on Baghdad, a group of senior Pentagon officials were plotting to invade another country. Their covert campaign once again relied on false intelligence and shady allies. But this time, the target was Iran.
How did the Bush administration sell the Iraq war? Check out our award-winning story on the PR machine for regime change in Iraq.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/10962352/iran_the_next_war
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #104
110. Thank you
for posting this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KaptBunnyPants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
107. Anyone think that this will go anywhere?
Our government is run by political agencies. There is no civil oversight, no politically immune check of executive power. These judicial decisions have to be enforced by the executive, and we all know how that will go. And even if we switch executives, both Parties are aware and supportive of this type of behavior. This is Israel we are talking about here. I'm surprised it's even technically illegal to pass classified documents to Israel. We gave them the bomb, for Christ's sake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #107
117. Israel got their nukes from France BTW with US approval of course
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 05:17 PM by DrDebug
The deal is thorougly documented in The Samson Option by Seymour M. Hersh. Israel first contacted the CIA and the President and they refered them to France which provided the nuclear technology. It is similar to the A.Q. Khan deal with Pakistan which was refered to the Netherlands, because they were in violation of the non-proliferation act with Urenco (a privatized commercial uranium enrichment plant!) which was essentially a deal between the UK, the Netherlands and Germany to share nuclear technology.

To answer your question: There is no justice. Never has, never will. Government will always break laws with impunity and make dubious deals for even more dubious reasons...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
109. Ironically, the ruling cites Elliot Abrams' earlier prosecution for certain points
relating to admissibility of third-party conversations.

Reading up on that case, you find yourself back in Iran-Contra with many of the same characters, and with guys like Felix Rodriguez. That makes for a pretty quick connection to questions about the JFK assassination.

Small world, huh?

United States v. Elliott Abrams:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_25.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #109
137. .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
112. I wonder if Sibel Edmonds is involved in this too?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
115. This thread
reminds me of the old "Plame Threads." Others have noted that, as well. I want to thank everyone for adding insight, energy, and truth to this thread.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. Concur
It's great to see a topic being discussed fully
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
118. .... because it's such a good read for info...with LINKS! to keep
one going for days!

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. I think so, too.
It's a good thread.

If people want to read more pretrial documents on this case, here are a couple:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/aipac/index.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
120. So is it the consensus of long-time followers of the case
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 07:34 PM by bleever
that Ellis is putting forth such a strong case for a defendant's sixth amendment rights because it increases the likelihood of dismissal?

Strange that the government so far isn't resisting on the ground of classified info but on the argument that the testimony wouldn't be helpful to the defense. Ellis seems to deny that the government gets to make that determination, and to affirm that the defense has the right to supersede that argument.

Ellis also seems inclined to reject the argument that the subpoenaed testimony would be merely cumulative.

I'm still trying to catch up here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #120
128. I Am Unanimous In That Opinion
Judge Ellis has worrried me for a long time. Miracles do happen however..........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #128
136. I need
to catch up on the history of the rulings so far.

If the cabal is good at anything, it's using the law to foster their lawlessness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
122. ...Great Weekend read....good stuff with many links to Bookmark
to read at your leisure..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
123. Can we keep this one kicked for a week or two?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #123
127. I Will
if you will
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #127
138. Who, me?
Or you, Me.?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #138
140. The Answer Is You
Unless you're a Me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
125. Kick. Grrr!!!! I hated I had to split when this news came out. Now,...
,...it's catch-up time after over two days of no internet.

Hopefully, as I go through this thread, I'll figure out why, uh,...

,...aw, geez,...

Please, do not let this be another positioning scheme. Argh! Well, I'll catch up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #125
141. Positioning scheme?
You mean an effort to get the case thrown out because the subpoenas can't be executed? All up to the judge and his fortitude, I would think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Progressive Friend Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
139. Kick for justice!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
143. Bookmarked!
Thanks for staying on top of this H2O Man! Sorry I didn't recommend this early enough. Looks like we're seeing more overlap with the Plame scandal as the AIPAC trials proceed. Very interesting!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
145. Tuesday Kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 13th 2024, 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC