The 'ticking time bomb scenario' as justification for waterboarding is disingenuous...

There is no reason to believe that use of 'torture' will yield the information you seek in such a scenario.

Brownback just said 'you go just as far as you can to save AMerican lives.' Ridiculous. How is torture a reliable method of acquiring accurate information --and if it does not, how is that going to save American lives.

The entire premise if wrong.

into history used the same excuse.

I mean, since he says we need to go as far as we can to save American lives, he is for universal healthcare, right?

Oh I forgot. It's only good to save American lives if you're torturing non-Americans.

How long HAVE we been using this tactic?

Let's take the argument that a terrorist has placed a nuke in a major US city and that we had captured the mastermind. Ok, good, fine. Now ya gotta give him an "incentive" to tell ya where the bomb is.

First, if this person is so ruthless that he desires the death and destruction that setting off a nuke would bring, what makes you think that he will not have the internal will to stay silent until the timer trips.

Second, what makes you think that any information thus gained would be accurate enough to be of any use prior to the scheduled detonation?

Third, considering the mindset of anybody who would do such a thing (setting off a nuke in an urban area), it is much more likely that said device would not have a timer, but rather a simple human operated toggle switch.

Terrorist "talks," gives you false info, you chase dead ends and fake leads, bomb goes off - mission accomplished.

Terrorist does not talk, bomb goes off - mission accomplished.

Terrorist knows threat of death is not actually behind torture: you cannot torture him until he dies, otherwise the only source of info is lost, and the bomb goes off - mission accomplished.

In the "24" scenario espoused by so many torture advocates, I have only two things to say:

1. The "terrorist" in any such situation holds all the cards; and
2. This is most important of all: 24 IS A GOD**** TELEVISION SHOW.

mikey_the_rat

Of course those shows are simply fantasy.

Think about that scenario for a minute and put yourself in the place of the criminal.

You hate this country and its people so much you are going to set a time bomb so devastating that thousands and thousands of people will die and you will probably die too.

The evil empire's police capture you. You know the bomb is going to go off in 30 minutes. They start torturing you. You put up with it (for show) for so long, then let slip that you placed it on the largest bridge. You know it will take hours for them to search the bridge. You wait and watch them run around the silly bridge while the bomb goes off in the main terminal of the subway, killing thousands of thousands of people....

Why would anyone spill their guts just because they are in very severe pain? Why not get back at the people who are torturing you, and tell them lie after lie as they run around like fools. Maybe you could even antagonize them so much that they lose control and kill you, which is what you want anyway.

The problem with republican scenarios is that they can't imagine themselves in the other guys head.

it divides the world into us and them. We can kill and maim, torture and imprison as many of "them" as we want IF we can save one of "us"? No wonder there are opponents to our foreign policy.

The Rs do not get the most fundamental of basic American principles, that "all people" are equal. It does not say that "all Americans" are equal.

He's given himself up for dead already and has nothing to lose by sending his tormentors on a series of wild goose chases. He knows exactly when the pain is going to end, when the ticking time bomb detonates.

The whole scenario is stupid. Torture doesn't work.

Back in the days when we the people ran this country, we didn't torture other folks because of who we are, not because of who they are or what they wanted to do to us.

I am ashamed of Schumer. I am ashamed of Mukasey. I am ashamed of my country for putting either man into high office.

with a captive who knows how to defuse it? This is why it's a "scenario" rather than an actual incident.