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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 07:49 PM Original message |
Question: Why is homosexuality considered to be Genes vs Choice |
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More Than A Feeling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 07:52 PM Response to Original message |
1. Ask the fundies, They think its a "free will choice" to "rebel" against god. |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 07:53 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. yeah...its all the fundies. nt. |
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demigoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 07:58 PM Response to Original message |
3. there was this documentary on tv back in the seventies and they interviewed |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:00 PM Response to Original message |
4. Considering that Homosexuality has been around as long as... |
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tekisui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:01 PM Response to Original message |
5. I don't understand why it matters. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:04 PM Response to Reply #5 |
8. Ask yourself, what's the difference between "Choice" and "Environment"? |
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More Than A Feeling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:06 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. Fundies can still use environment to make fundy parents even more |
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tekisui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:14 PM Response to Reply #8 |
15. Ask yourself, why does it matter? |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:18 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. Personally speaking, I agree |
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AuntPatsy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:14 PM Response to Reply #5 |
14. I like your response. Simple and makes a more than valid point. |
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Occulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:55 PM Response to Reply #5 |
71. It matters a very great deal, actually. |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:11 AM Response to Reply #5 |
82. I had a ton of poo thrown at me for making a similar statement. Bottom line, I agree. It shouldn't. |
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peacebird (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:01 PM Response to Original message |
6. for me it's like "intelligent design" vs evolution... those who tout "intelligent" design |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:46 PM Response to Reply #6 |
63. Intelligent design doesn't dispute evolution. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:50 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. It also has zero, zip, zilch, none, less than any, supporting evidence. |
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Hoof Hearted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 01:29 AM Response to Reply #65 |
97. And what of those who do not see any conflict or challenge at all between the two? |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:02 PM Response to Original message |
7. Just to be clear - I'm not asking if you think it's genes or choice |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:08 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. I think the phrase |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:13 PM Response to Reply #11 |
13. I didn't recognize it until I read the title |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:19 PM Response to Reply #13 |
19. Yeah, I see that as well |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:29 PM Response to Reply #19 |
22. Them old folks can be pretty hip when you're not looking |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:34 PM Response to Reply #22 |
26. Over some heads, I agree |
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jgraz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:04 PM Response to Original message |
9. Why do we even put up with the question?? |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:12 PM Response to Original message |
12. Because it is a case where we can hit the authoratative dogma over the head with facts |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:15 PM Response to Reply #12 |
16. Agree, but why is the question framed as one of "Genes vs Choice" |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:27 PM Response to Reply #16 |
21. Well its not really genes and the fight is not only political |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:32 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. That's a very interesting take on it |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:48 PM Response to Reply #21 |
64. Not quite accurate... |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:16 PM Response to Original message |
17. Because environment doesn't equal choice. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:24 PM Response to Reply #17 |
20. Thank you |
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Lex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:29 PM Response to Reply #17 |
23. Are there studies linking sexual abuse with "development" of homosexuality? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:34 PM Response to Reply #23 |
27. Deleted message |
Lex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:38 PM Response to Reply #27 |
29. It is NOT common knowledge. Can sexual abuse cause one to be straight? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:44 PM Response to Reply #29 |
32. Deleted message |
Lex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:46 PM Response to Reply #32 |
36. Uh-huh. And I think your "common knowledge" |
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NMMNG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:46 PM Response to Reply #32 |
37. Cite some real facts |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:19 PM Response to Reply #32 |
56. Can I just say you are dumb? |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:40 PM Response to Reply #56 |
60. No. |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:44 PM Response to Reply #60 |
62. See, this is what makes your statements dumb... |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:53 PM Response to Reply #62 |
68. Ok, now it's your turn. What "scientific data" supports that orientation is set before birth? n/t |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:59 PM Response to Reply #68 |
73. Is the American Psychological Association a good source? |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:07 AM Response to Reply #73 |
78. "scientists today agree that sexual orientation ... result of a complex interaction of environmental |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:11 AM Response to Reply #78 |
80. Doesn't mention age, which is key here... |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:18 AM Response to Reply #80 |
84. No, that's not what it says. |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:24 AM Response to Reply #84 |
87. "Enviroment" is a VERY general term... |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:25 AM Response to Reply #87 |
89. Agreed that it's not a choice. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:52 PM Response to Reply #32 |
67. That's not causative data. You're just making shit up. |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 08:19 AM Response to Reply #32 |
106. Your sexual orientation is hard wired into you |
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NMMNG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:40 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. And what about the kids who were sexually abused |
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Lex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:42 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. I can't believe what I see here sometimes. |
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NMMNG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:45 PM Response to Reply #31 |
34. Me either |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:58 PM Response to Reply #34 |
44. me three |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:48 PM Response to Reply #30 |
38. What about them? |
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Toasterlad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:57 PM Response to Reply #27 |
43. It Is FAULTY Knowledge. |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 09:01 PM Response to Reply #43 |
46. If your theory is true, then that would explain the increased level of homosexuality among abused. |
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Toasterlad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 10:09 PM Response to Reply #46 |
50. I'm Telling You That Your Belief is False. |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 10:16 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. But you said a likely scenario is that pedophiles might target gays, did you not? |
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Toasterlad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 10:29 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. I Offered That Scenario As An Explanation for What Happened to Your Friend's Brother. |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 10:33 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Meh. You essentially are saying exactly what I've said. |
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Toasterlad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:02 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. I Most Certainly Am NOT. |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:37 PM Response to Reply #55 |
59. You are saying the results are the same. The evidence is the same. n/t |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:53 PM Response to Reply #59 |
69. You have yet to cite ANY evidence, pal. |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:57 PM Response to Reply #69 |
72. Evidence for what, pal? n/t |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:11 AM Response to Reply #72 |
81. Causation. You have thus far failed to cite any evidence for it. |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:19 AM Response to Reply #81 |
85. See post 78 n/t |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:41 PM Response to Reply #52 |
61. Cause and effect. |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:55 PM Response to Reply #61 |
70. Yeah, draw me a picture. |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:00 AM Response to Reply #70 |
74. The boys were ALREADY gay. |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:04 AM Response to Reply #74 |
76. And AGAIN, your theory jives perfectly with everyting I've said. |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:09 AM Response to Reply #76 |
79. Well, I know several STRAIGHT guys who were |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:20 AM Response to Reply #79 |
86. Although interesting, your (and my) anecdotes mean little. |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:25 AM Response to Reply #86 |
88. But this "common knowledge" you offered up |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:26 AM Response to Reply #88 |
90. I never said any such thing |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:29 AM Response to Reply #90 |
91. So you deny you posted post 32? n/t |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:37 AM Response to Reply #91 |
94. No, I don't |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:52 AM Response to Reply #94 |
96. You also claimed its "common knowledge... |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:32 AM Response to Reply #90 |
92. Oh, come on. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:51 PM Response to Reply #27 |
66. Offensive homophobic bullshit. |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 08:18 AM Response to Reply #27 |
105. If a lesbian is raped by a man, does she become straight? |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:35 PM Response to Reply #23 |
28. Not that I know of |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 09:04 PM Response to Reply #23 |
47. Deleted message |
Toasterlad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 10:14 PM Response to Reply #47 |
51. A Lesbian Is Not a Woman With an Aversion to Men. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:25 PM Response to Reply #51 |
57. Deleted message |
LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 07:50 AM Response to Reply #57 |
102. Oh brother -- that reads like an afterschool special of bad lesbian stereotypes |
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Withywindle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 11:30 PM Response to Reply #47 |
58. Well, that just makes no sense at all. |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:32 PM Response to Reply #17 |
25. re environment |
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Harper_is_Bush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:49 PM Response to Reply #25 |
39. yes. That's why the genes/environment combination occurs, imo. n/t |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:45 AM Response to Reply #25 |
95. That doesn't change their orientation, a bisexual is a bisexual... |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 01:42 AM Response to Reply #95 |
98. Well it can get a bit tricky |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 05:34 PM Response to Reply #98 |
109. That's the reason why self-identification is unreliable... |
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fizzgig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 01:58 AM Response to Reply #95 |
99. and even remain loyal? |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 08:24 AM Response to Reply #99 |
108. OT Fizzgig and Mononokies |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 02:05 AM Response to Reply #17 |
100. Sexual abuse 'makes' people gay? |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 07:52 AM Response to Reply #100 |
103. Duh -- it's "common knowledge" |
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Danger Mouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 09:39 PM Response to Reply #103 |
110. "Common knowledge" among fundies and freepers. |
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LostinVA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 08:17 AM Response to Reply #17 |
104. No, being gay is not even partially because of environment |
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Basileus Basileon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:45 PM Response to Original message |
33. Because you can't blame someone for the environment they grew up in. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:49 PM Response to Reply #33 |
40. Thank you |
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Basileus Basileon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:55 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. Because we're pretty damn predictable. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:58 PM Response to Reply #42 |
45. My thinking is along the lines of yours |
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leeroysphitz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:45 PM Response to Original message |
35. Just my two cents but I see no difference... |
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TZ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 08:51 PM Response to Original message |
41. actually every human behavior is |
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iamjoy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 09:07 PM Response to Original message |
48. It's Actually A Combination Of Factors |
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UncleSepp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-06-07 09:51 PM Response to Original message |
49. Proof of homosexuality as genetic will NOT work |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:04 AM Response to Original message |
75. Does opposite sex sexual abuse make one straight? |
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libnnc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:15 AM Response to Reply #75 |
83. Thank you. |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:06 AM Response to Original message |
77. sense when do my pants have anything to do with it? nt. |
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U4ikLefty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 12:34 AM Response to Original message |
93. Cause they get to "choose" what's in their partner's jeans...um, I mean "genes". |
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Neshanic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 06:21 AM Response to Original message |
101. Judging from some of the responses here, lets talk about heterosexual sex. When you screw your wife |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-07-07 08:19 AM Response to Original message |
107. From this thread, I have learned the following: |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Mon May 13th 2024, 04:12 AM Response to Original message |
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