I'll have to give this to the DLC \ centrist crowd

they are on the wrong side of almost every issue... but wow they keep at it.

Never mind that things like morality, or the US Constitution matter not as long as they keep power

They don't realize that this not fighting back and surrendering \caving every single time is leaving people with a bad taste

They believe that we will continue to vote the lesser of two evils... what happens when we don't?

And there is historical precedent for this.

The 1988 Presidential election

It was sown in... whoohoo happy days were here again!

We were taking the White House after eight years of Ronnie and Iran Contra... so the congress refused to even speak of impeachment over Iran Contra.

Now tell me people, how many of you remember that Democratic President? I certainly don't... because the next President was one George Bush...

Yet, they are making the same mistake, and all rationalizations aside, history is a bitch. And the Leadership, our Team B, is making the same mistake. What is more, this will cost us more than just the White House I suspect... and then the centrist will blame everybody except the DC Pundits who have been wrong every step of the way.

Of course this assumes the kabuki theater is more than just kabuki...

and simply calling people names, using humor to bring even more unsuspecting people on board by posting one liners, tantalizing little tidbits that are close to the truth but not, just enough to keep someone else from fact checking then they become no better than those they pretend to detest.

I agree with you, We can win this, the people can, but if we don't agree that winning with the truth and nothing but the truth is the way to go then we are lost.

We don't have all the answers Nadine to the hundreds of questions many of us are asking each and every day but that can't deter us from continuing to ask the right questions voice the right outrages, demand accountability from any and all politicians regardless of political ties then we might as well give up.

What bothers me most is that far too many people continue to focus way too much on the bad when it comes to what the Dem's have been "ALLOWED" to do and not the "GOOD" they have fought to accomplish.

I have no doubt we have Dem's that we cannot and should not trust, and I would hope that the good ones are just as aware of the bad ones as we are.


I don't have all the answers on how to fight to win back our country but I do have the want, the passion and the need to fight for my once unfailing pride in the country I was born in.


After reading quite a bit tonight, I think one of President Bill Clinton's biggest mistake was trusting the Republican party far too much to be fair, to unite, to care about keeping our countrymen on the same page.

Unlike this current cabal, he gave perhaps far too much free reign to those working behind the scenes who obviously begun working the moment Poppy Bush lost his second term to this newer and younger upcoming politician, one they thought they had no fear of.

He surprised them, they vowed he would not again.

The wooed him, cajoled him and tricked him once and what worries me now is that they have put fear into him so can he be trusted? I don't know, but we should be vigilant, we should be wary and we should never, never, stop asking, no DEMANDING that we the people have every right to get the answers to the questions that have yet to be addressed..

And whether some realize this or not, we are "ONE" country, not two not three not four. We have no choice but to find a happy if not tempered medium so that we can focus on what is important to all the voters of this country not a select few,

We have to find a way to get along, we are friends, neighbors family members and all citizens of ONE country and political leanings should NOT matter when demanding your voice be heard, somethings should NOT be up for sale nor debate ever, its completely UNCONSTITUTIONAL to ignore any citizen of America's rights that all citizens are guaranteed under the laws to enjoy, not women's rights, gay rights not one right of ANY AMERICAN regardless of color race and or creed , religious preference nor personal lifestyle.


Choice, it is ours not theirs.

We need to decide the real issues that concern us all, NOT a select few and the only issues of importance should regard Health care, Education, Wars, Veterans, Civil Rights, Constitutional Rights, the ongoing definite threat of Global warming, labor reform, the judicial system,

The political sphere needs desperately to be reworked, it needs a face lift, it needs stricter laws regarding such things as bribes, blackmailing, etc, politicians need to know there are laws they MUST abide by, they cannot forget, should NOT forget just exactly who it is they work for, we don't work for them, they work for us and so far way too many are in danger of being fired for not doing the jobs they were hired on to do.,

They should forget their vacation time, they have not earned it, it is time to work overtime in order to ensure the issues of real importance are addressed in record time, not at the pleasure of their whims.

They give themselves raises, paid vacations and the best health care insurance money can buy and who is paying them these excellent wages and mouth watering incentives? We the people are, and it's about time they began earning their wages paid by American Tax Dollars what for most people leaves them barely able to survive never mind enjoy the same life style that most politicians take for granted and demand.

it is bad for democracy and dangerous.

The Democrats appear to be on track to do the same thing, and they will get the same result. If they win, they will be the victims of an even more vicious assault that is even smarter and more effective than last time.

to be more vigilant, more demanding in making them have to answer to us? I agree the core of the Dem party is suspect to say the least, but we can insure they get back on track and remain that way, but others have to ensure their own party's too remain on track, obey the laws, follow the same rule of thumb they demand of the people.

Like it or not, its time to stop alienating people if at all possible, we need to get thicker skins all of us, those that are firmly rooted in their personal religious beliefs, those that differ from political leanings, those that simply have no exact label they go by.

I might not like or find the same value of another citizens private lifestyle but regardless of how they go about their every day lifestyle, we all period are deserving of the same laws to abide by, we all are deserving of having personal choice in our life and we are all deserving of having our neighbors not have to like it but at least respect our rights that are only given to those living in a full democracy....

in the late 1980s

The buzz talk then was of impeachment as well

worst campaign ever for a sitting president.

Some of his longtime campaign moneymen had made an earlier switch to a Dem candidate.

Jackson Stephens and Marc Rich were two of the named figures that the report wanted investigated further.

BTW - moneymen switched back to BushInc in 1999.

Does any of this sound like it should matter to American citizens the last 15 years?


http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci /

Matters For Further Investigation

There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:


1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.


2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.


3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.


4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al-Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.


5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.


6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.


7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.


8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.


9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.


10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.


11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.


12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.


13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.


14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.


15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.


16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.


17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.


18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.


19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.


20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.

feverish talk of impeachment in 1987 over Iran Contra Against Reagan

The leadership made the "calcuclated decision" not to rock the boat since they had the Presidency sown in and we the people could not handle that after Watergate

They treat us as children

And as you well remember the American people went, ok, fuck it... lets elect George

based on suspicious banking transactions Kerry uncovered during his IranContra investigation.

This nation was failed the moment Dems were convinced to cooperate with BushInc and protected those illegal operations from being exposed fully to the American people.

first in 1987=88 when we decided NOT to impeach

And then when they bought the Clintons... and I think they did buy big dog. I still remember
being angry when it was swept under the carpet.

And people know at a gut level there is something wrong

What John Dean calls broken government

And the "centrists" support this lack of action.

After all we are a rabble... that has to be treated like children

That is where the serious protection of BushInc's overall agenda occurred and no Dem congress or senate to get in the way - they were all preoccupied with protecting the Dem president.

I don't need to ask hundreds of questions.

I see that the main torch bearer for our side is supposedly Hillary Clinton. With her, troops might be out of Iraq by 2013. And she's all for a big stick thwacking away at Iran.

I see that Diane Feinstein approves of Attorney General-nominee Michael Mukasey who has no moral outrage, or any judgement about waterboarding as torture. He'll leave that up to COngress. (He already gets that they won't do much!)

I see that Congress, that could have stopped the war in Iraq simply by not bringing forward the funding bills, refused to take that way out.

I listen to Studs Terkel when he says that "the coup has already taken place." By that he means that the "Right" is so criminal that their policies are unthinkable but happening and that the "Left" or the "Liberal" side is so similar to what the Right used to be that Corporate America has us in a corner.

Excuse away, if it comforts you, but it doesn't change reality.

Edited so I could stop and look up the correct spelling and name of Mukasey

They were not only the most gifted, effective, and attractive natural politicians in the Democratic Party. After Mena Airport, they were the most compromised, and easiest to manage.

Independence is a dangerous trait in American Presidents. Something to be avoided.

link has letters written to and from Clinton at the time-very interesting:

The following article was printed in the Thursday, January 30, 1992
issue of the *The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette* on page 7B.

UA GROUP CHARGES CLINTON DID LITTLE ON MENA INQUIRY

By Cyd Tabyanan

FAYETTEVILLE - The Arkansas Committee charged Wednesday that Gov. Bill
Clinton did little to investigate the possibility that the Mena Airport
was used as part of a gun and drug smuggling operation in the mid 1980s.
"He did not respond to the people of Arkansas when they asked him for
justice," said Mark Swaney, president of the Arkansas Committee, a
University of Arkansas student group formed to support constitutional law
and human rights.
"We ask the people of the United States if they want to vote for a man
to lead this country out of a massive drug problem if he won't even
respond to his own citizens when we asked him to," Swaney said.
The committee is questioning Clinton's statement last year that he did
all he could to investigate allegations that the CIA used the airport to
export guns to Nicaraguan rebels and bring drugs into the United States.

-snip
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/the_arkansas_committee.html

which should have been a huge eye-opener for Democrats at the time because Jackson Stephens had been such a close friend to Poppy BUsh and he was also one of Poppy Bush's cronies in his illegal BCCI operations.

What happened with those investigations after Bill took office? Wasn't there a LONG LIST of outstanding matters that should have been addressed after years of Poppy Bush's stonewalling and obstruction?

he ran a terrible, terrible campaign. The real centrist candidate, remember, was Gary Hart. Hart wrecked his own campaign by being a cheating dumbass. Dukakis made idiotic blunder after idiotic blunder and basically never had a chance due to his size, ethnicity and some of the asinine things he said and did. That coupled with the fact that although Americans said that were pretty pissed about Iran/Contra, they actually weren't all that pissed at all and would have liked to have a) given Ollie North a medal of some description and b) humped Fawn Hall all night long.

My recollection of it was that the party basically gave the nomination to the 1988 equivalent of Kucinich and he performed exactly as well as Kucinich would perform today if he were given the same opportunity--he got slaughtered by a relatively moderate Republican. Dukakis, fool that he was, didn't even win Connecticut or California.

I remember being in College then... and one of my professors saying it... folks if they don't impeach, the demos just lost the WH. Does not matter who they put up

He was a political science professor... many of my fellow students laughed.

He was right.

It was never "sown in". And this election isn't either, though it's certainly more promising for dems. If anyone recalls, 1988 was when the the repuke party was in its ascendancy.

God knows the leadership in the House and Senate sucks, but I doubt that will be a huge factor in 2008.

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric fool you. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.

I cited history... hard facts

Try again

An 86% rating for her stands on Peace??

Or do we have more of these false info makers out there than just one group??

this country is a capitalist sham

but both national parties have been taken over by grops of folks who are pro business and who have no essential difference in foreign policy.

And capitalist sham... I guess even Ricardo and Smith are doing summersaults... they hated monopolies... and saw monopolies as the poison pill of capitalism

What we have right now is NOT capitalism, but something else... some may even call it fascsim... and from Mussolini's definition... IT IS.

same thing. the oligarchs use capitalism and capitalism uses corporations and corporations use "fascist" governments in order to use (up) everything. capitalism has metastasized into this rabid-devour-the-planet, greed-is-all race to the bottom and to the bottom of the resources bucket.

Poppy B*sh embodied the DLC ideology far more
than Dukakis did. DLC types considered '88 a
VICTORY, not a loss.

their infiltration of the Democratic party, and infiltration is a correct term.

Their goal was to change how the Democrats run campaigns and what issues are important to democrats

The Clinton Presidency was their only success really, but that had more to do with Clinton's charisma than their true understanding of why people vote.

The people like fighters... but the lets compromise and compromise some more started back then

As to the infiltration there are many theories, but some of these folks come from the same ideological bent as the Neo Cons who distrust democracy and the mob

I am convinced that the failure of the DLC to acknowledge Gore's win in 2000 (in fact they blame his "loss" on breaking with the DLC and becoming a populist-i'll post a link below) and their active role in keeping Kerry from challenging Ohio in 2004(thanks to Clinton ally James Carville (also posted below) was calculated as to allow a HRC run in '08. If either would have taken the office they won, then HRC and her corporate cronies would not have had a chance in 2008. Also look how they try to undermine Howard Dean. Anyway, here are some links:

FIRST..GORE BROKE WITH THE DLC TO BECOME A POPULIST:

Published on Sunday, August 20. 2000 in the Boston Globe
Thank You, Al Gore
by Robert Kuttner
A funny thing happened to Al Gore on the way to his surprisingly effective acceptance speech. He became a liberal.

The speech was as liberal as anything FDR or LBJ or Jesse Jackson or one of the Kennedys might have delivered. It was built around a commitment to fight for ordinary people, against large and powerful interests. This, of course, is precisely what made it effective.

The emotional heart of the speech, Gore's honoring of four ordinary American lives, did not just salute the struggles of workaday families, the way Ronald Reagan often did. It identified who was dishonoring their struggles - corporations. He singled out heartless HMOs who pressure a family to sacrifice a child; drug companies that force a pensioner to choose between food and medicine; corporate polluters; corporations that pay workers inadequate wages.

And he identified the solution: strong, reliable public Social Security; better Medicare; welfare reform that rewards work rather than punishing the needy; higher minimum wages; and more investment in public - not voucher - schools, so that working families don't have to send kids to crumbling classrooms.

What is the evil? Corporate power. What is the remedy? Effective government.

-snip
http://www.commondreams.org/views/082000-105.htm

SECOND, AFTER GORE'S WIN THEY BLAME HIS 'LOSS' ON BREAKING WITH THE DLC:

Strange Theory on Why Gore Lost



The so-called Democratic Leadership Council has decided that Al Gore should have acted more like a Republican in order to win the 2000 presidential electoral college vote in addition to his nationwide popular vote victory. This strange finding has drawn some attention, including coverage by the Associated Press and the Environmental News Service -- we have a few excerpts from their reports for you here.
Al Gore, the self-styled environmental candidate in the 2000 Presidential election, lost his bid for the White House because he campaigned on an outdated "populist" platform that was too liberal for most Americans, according to a new report drafted by the Democratic Leadership Council.

The 40-page report, titled "Why Gore Lost, And How Democrats Can Come Back," concludes that the Democratic Party must move towards the political right -- towards the Republicans -- if it wants to regain control of Congress in 2002 and the White House in 2004.

Al From, the DLC's founder and CEO, opened a freewheeling discussion forum by arguing that Democrat Al Gore made a huge tactical mistake by continually emphasizing that he would "fight for the people and not the powerful" as the nation's first president of the 21st Century.

-snip

http://www.progress.org/goredlc2.htm

AND FINALLY, CLINTON ALLY JAMES CARVILLE'S ROLE IN THE QUICK KERRY CONCESSION:

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)


By M.J. Rosenberg | bio




On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

-snip

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

-snip

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

RESEARCH THIS FOR YOURSELVES, BEFORE YOU CAST A VOTE FOR ANY DLC CANDIDATE!

and if HRC does not get the nod (based on US History... early leaders don't... that is the pattern), I fear they will do
all they can to PREVENT the democratic candidate from taking the WH, so they can try again in 2012

Yes, it is in conspiracy land, as many folks may put it, but unfortunately under the law the term exists for a reason.

I am speaking of this in the legal sense.... and if it was proven... folks would be going to the pokey... (on both sides)

blown away at the silence from the media, and mainly from the Democratic Party (with the exception of those who stood with Conyers to prevent the seating of the Ohio Electorates).

I do not believe the "Moneyed" Dems will do anything about the voting situation.

I mean, we clean the elections and next thing you know the rable will elect (insert progressive here)

they're as gutless a bunch of pathetic pantywaists as you'd ever hope to run against in a primary.

the pubs have chickenhawks and the dems are a bunch of chickenshits

you point out.

They call themselves "centrists" although there is hardly anything centrist about their issues, outlook, and methods.

quotation marks

They are way out of the mainstream, and some suspect... political scientists, that they are the other side of the neocon
movement

A gentler aproach in national politics, but a bankrupt movement nonetheless, even if it is holding to power.

isn't of interest to them. That being the case, who are they actually representing? It's not the ideals of the democratic party...so why should they get to sit at our table and tell us that our ideas are not allowed?

at least to my House Rep

:-)

So there.

The problem is that they "know" you will not vote for a republican and count on the lesser of the two evils.

But they rather you and I didn't vote... in that sense they are not that different from the lets enforce party discipline and
punish those who don't get it, in the GOP.

If they are the other side of the neocon coin, and they are insofar as foreign policy is concerned... then they really
don't want you to vote

Makes you wonder about 2000 and 2004 and how deep the crap goes.

to subvert our party. Given the facts, I can't say that isn't the case.

that is the sad truth, and you see the calls for party dicispine here every damn day

as we go into the future....WELL....moving past all the crimes of Bush1 forced us directly into Bush2 and we have Bill Clinton to thank for that because he thought Poppy Bush should have a peaceful retirement for all his service to his country.

FUCK that.

They're the rot that has corrupted the party.

"The Democratic Leadership Council's agenda is indistinguishable from the Republican Neoconservative agenda," http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Kucinich_DLC_agenda_undistinguishable_from_Neocon_0813.html

Let's just look at the cold, hard facts about the DLC and its record. The DLC has pushed, among other things, the war in Iraq and "free" trade policies, using bags of corporate money to buy enough Democratic votes to help Republicans make those policies a reality. They have chastised anyone who has opposed those policies as either unpatriotic or anti-business -- even as a majority of Americans now oppose the war in Iraq, oppose the DLC's business-written trade deals, and are sick of watching America's economy sold out to the highest corporate bidder. Additionally, in brazenly Orwellian fashion, the DLC has also called its extremist agenda "centrist," even though polls show the American public opposes most of their agenda, and supports much of the progressive agenda. http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0727-32.htm

The progressive movement has not just threatened this message monopoly -- it is undoing it. Through MoveOn, the rise of popular documentaries, blogs, think tanks, etc. It's not just that we talk about real values and innovative strategies. It's because we're talking, period, that the centrists feel threatened.

Hence the DLC's vicious attempts to discredit the movement. And that's what they want. They don't seek to win an argument over policy. They seek to destroy the credibility of their opponents and restore their message monopoly. http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=721

This is why the DLC is dangerous. For all their claims of supposedly wanting to help Democrats, they employ people like Marshall Wittman who specifically try to undermine the Democratic Party, even if it means he has to publicly defecate out the most rank and easily-debunkable lies. They reguarly give credence to the right wing's agenda and its worst, most unsupportable lies. They are the real force that tries to make sure this country is a one party state and that Democrats never really challenge the Republicans in a serious way. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/why-the-dlc-is-so-dangero_b_13640.html

DLC Watch, the wicked shall not escape justice http://dlcwatch.blogspot.com

Without a doubt, the DLC is the most fundamentalist organization within the caucus, the most ideologically rigid, and the most destructive to the progressive cause.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/5/24/1712/23448

These DLC types are amazing, they really are. Their pathology is unique; they all secretly worship the guilt-by-association tactics of Lee Atwater and Karl Rove, but unlike those two, not one of them has enough balls to take being thought of as the bad guy by the general public.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11275627/the_low_post_democrats_walk_themselves_to_the_gallows

I'll write in another Dem. I don't want to contribute in any way to their agenda.

They're your surrender monkeys.