I will never consider people who condone torture in any way worthy of breathing the same air as me

And I am not sorry about saying that.

I don't care if the motherfuckers are wearing US flag pins or swastikas. They are all the same.

And I am not sorry about saying that either.

This is where I draw the line in the sand.

Don

I can understand an uneducated public at times but not anyone in power putting it in effect.

what isn't. One of the most important attributes needed by leaders who disapprove of torture is recognizing when someone doesn't.

described their harsh training regarding torture, ie what to do when one is on the receiving end.

The exercise was intended to provide methods of giving misinformation, which, no doubt, is what torture produces.

And there was never any question but that WE adhered to the Geneva Convention. No question, and this was emphasized throughout the military.

That was something of which to be proud, and I wonder now, if our troops receive any training on humane treatment of POW's or the Geneva Convention statutes.

MKJ

on edit, there's so much about my country I don't recognize anymore.

the flap in the hearings was about "Civilian" torture.. and the judge creating a situation that would prevent the White House torture monkeys go free.. the CIA said that at least 299 innocent people were tortured to death..

if you scroll down on this site there are some graphic photos of torture
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3943.htm

this is dubyas kind ao place..
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27873.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1146979,00.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/05/01/MNGE5CI9MO1.DTL

not only does the WH torture but there have been a lot of people kidnapped from other countries, and their own homelands, and taken to other contractor countries and tortured.

one of the 'ghost planes' that was used in extreme rendition recently crashed and had tons of cocaine on it

i dont respect anyone who has a position other than it is evil...and it is..despicable and disgusting...the line is drawn in the sand for me as well...and this is my moral and ethical gut..has nothing to do with politics..i am so ashamed at what we have become..

:argh:

This bears another shot:



The Day The Nazi Died
Chumbawamba

we're taught that after the war
the Nazis vanished without a trace
but battalions of fascists
still dream of a master race
the history books they tell of their defeat in 45
why did they all come out of the woodwork
on the day the Nazi died

they say the prisoner of Spandau
was a symbol of defeat
whilst Hess remained imprisoned
then the fascists they were beat
so the promise of an Aryan world would never materialize
so why did they all come out of the woodwork
on the day the Nazi died

the world is ridden by maggots
the maggots are getting fat
they're making a tasty meal
of all the bosses and bureaucrats
they're taking over the board rooms
and they're fat and full of pride
and they all came out of the woodwork
on the day the Nazi died

so if you meet with these historians
I'll tell you what to say
tell them that the Nazis never really went away
they're out there burning houses down
and they're peddling racist lies
and we'll never rest again
until every Nazi dies

Those who advocate torture are anti-American and politically dangerous.

But they're still people, and deserve the same civil liberty as anyone. We need to defeat them politically, for all of our sakes. Not dehumanize them. They already have done enough of that. Keep in mind that Bush's thinking on this is closer to Osama bin Laden's than to ours. We never want to turn the tables. We want to remove those tables from use, and put them in a museum, to remind our grandchildren of the terrible past they must not repeat.

:hippie:

Does that make any sense? Of course not.

I am also against the death penalty.

So for me that only leaves one option. Prison. That is where tortures belong. Permanently.

Don

justify torture.

the Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves right now.

That's exactly the kind of anger and hatred that they think gives them the license to torture.

They view their opponents as non-human.

It doesn't matter what the "enemy" does, the justification for torture springs from within the twisted heart of the torturer. The Jews in the Holocaust went quietly by and large, and they were killed in the most despicable ways their captors could think of. All torture needs to justify itself is that hard nut of fear in the bosom of the torturer.

:toast: