Fighting To Stop Torture-By: John Kerry

Fighting To Stop Torture
by John Kerry
Wed Nov 07, 2007 at 06:10:47 AM PST

OK, enough double-talk and obfuscations from the Republicans. Let’s get it out in the open: who believes the United States should never use torture, and who does not?

No more statements like the typical Republican response, “We won’t comment on specific procedures we may or may not do.” Let’s get specific and show everyone what makes America America: We don’t torture, and waterboarding is torture.

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But he said that if Congress passed a law that made it clear where we stood on this reprehensible practice, he’d enforce it. So, here we go: let’s define waterboarding as torture once and for all.

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The sad truth is that we need to do this when you have an Administration that has blurred the lines of torture and a Vice President who lobbied for it. It’s time to make the Administration hear the voice of the American people saying, “We believe this is wrong, and we won’t have this done in our name.”


read the rest at:

http://www.johnkerry.com/2007/11/7/fighting-to-stop-torture

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/7/908/72619


And while you're at it, see also:

http://www.johnkerry.com/2007/11/6/just-say-no-legal-loopholes-on-torture

http://www.johnkerry.com/2007/11/1/just-say-no-mukasey

We do not need to "define" a damn thing. The "defining" has been over for hundreds of years and the "legislative fight" has been over for generations -- US CODE Title 18,2441 War Crimes.

And we do not need our oath-bound, sitting Senators to be circulating petitions. We can do that for ourselves.

We need our "leaders" to DO their damn jobs. We need them to defend the US Constitution and fulfill our treaty obligations.

That means demanding impeachment and prosecution of known war criminals. Even if that isn't convenient right now and makes for tense Georgetown cocktail parties.

Anything else -- like this drivel -- is the "double-talk and obfuscations."

It is the DC Dems that need to "hear the voice of the American people."

Failure to impeach is complicity -- approval -- exoneration for the regime.

Stop talking and start DOING.

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This will not be the first time Congress passes a law stating that torture is illegal, even when there were already existing laws.



People are screaming about existing laws, precedent and filibusters. Filibuster? With who, Schumer and Feinstein?

Are there 41 Democrats who oppose the nomination? Last time I checked only about 11 have stated they'll do so.

We've watched the administration buck legal precedent time and again. Just screaming precendent and filibuster when there is not enough support to challenge them does no good.

This bill reiterates the illegality of Bush's activities in specific terms, not just the problem with Mukasey's nomination.

Because as you say the regime will "buck legal precedent time and again."

So why is Kerry pretending that lawbreakers will follow new laws? Or that he has votes to override a GOP filibuster and a veto?

I am not "screaming precedent and filibuster." (Though there's no reason not to filibuster "Judge Torture" at this point.) I am screaming that the problem is not "legislative" and that pretending that legislation will DO anything at all is a huge lie. And while Kerry and the rest of the Dems among the DC/Euphemedia Analstocracy may well be lying to themselves, it is still a lie.

Which is why "screaming" about all their rationalizations for inaction is the only thing that might get them to come to their senses and ACT (we've had plenty of reiteration, thanks).

It is our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

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Stay the course is not an option!

You need to read the diary and Kerry's responses because you obviously haven't. It's easy to say Kerry and the rest of the Dems, but silly when they are actually different people. Kerry is doing something. Now you can go scream at the others, like Schumer and Feinstein.

But Only Impeachment is doing.

Kerry and the rest continue to "stay the course" by reiterating, and defining, and legislating, and restoring -- none of which is actually doing anything at all -- other than complying and enabling (and perhaps self-deluding).

It's just talking. Doing is a very different thing.

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He is doing.

...by talking about "legislating" in the face of filibuster, veto, and "Rule By Signing Statement."

He is talking into his hat.

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A taser is a stun gun.

Its voltage is so strong it often causes internal damage to organs and primarily the heart.

It is a convenient killer because the damage is not seen external, but the damage is done internally and fatalities may in fact happen days later.

if you've any doubt as to whether tasering is torture that periodically even causes death in a minority of cases, it should be tried on YOU (whoever makes this claim). I'm happy to catch up on the facts but it's intriguing to contemplate what facts could overcome the universal prohibition on torture, which prohibition applies without exceptions even in times of war, and because the international law against torture is what's called a jus cogens norm, it is binding on all nations without regard to the ratification of a treaty, or the lack thereof.

If the story is that Kerry properly spoke out, let's hear it. But last I heard, he sent out a statement expressing his hope that the cops, and the student, were not hurt. Though we all support the noble work of police, it struck me as truly gratuitous and uncalled for to hope that the (in effect) torturers didn't get hurt as a result of the torture.

the facts were posted many times. I'm sure you understand why he didn't jump from the stage run over and wrestle the police to the ground.

Film at 11.

How could he stop what he did not know even occurred. Not to mention he was on the far other side of the room. What would you want ANY person to do. There were 700 people in the room. The police were not under Kerry's control. Although the Fl code may be too free to use a taser, the circumstances fit the state guidelines. Was Kerry supposed to have walked off stage, down the aisle and started punching the police?

I can see objecting to the FL guidelines. I can see you thinking the police over reacted. But Kerry actually gave the student a chance to speak, after he was already disruptive, that few politicians would have given. Meyer was a senior at the school, he very likely knew what behavior was allowed at these events. Once he overstepped the line and was told by authorities to leave, he should have followed orders. Had he immediately calmed down, the police might have let him stay when Kerry said he would answer the question.

and whatnot