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Does anyone think the Democrats may be showing a little more spine?

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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:02 PM
Original message
Does anyone think the Democrats may be showing a little more spine?
They didn't give in and water down SCHIP. There will be the first override of a Bush veto (which I'm very happy about because it shows the separation of powers still has a faint pulse.) Now, we might be directing how war funds must be spent. I believe the Dem leaders know Dennis is right more than they'll say. Now they won't go as far as I would like, and the Repukes, with their bully and authoritarian mentality, still won't respect us much unless we keep it up. But maybe there's hope that Pelosi, Hoyer, and Reid are listening to what Dennis and other supporters of a stronger approach are saying.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mukasey trumps everything. Schumer and Feinstein . . .
Have crossed the line and I hope they get ousted in favor of *anyone* next time they run (preferably by vertebrate dems).
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I might not have started this topic if I hadn't heard that..
more Senators are going to vote against Mukasey. Perhaps I'm just looking for anything in these bleak times.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. I don't think it's "spine" with those two..
it's more like "follow the money" and you'll see just how corrupt they can be. They're getting away with fucking murder under the guise of dems and they are dinos whose intial should be f for fascist.

I take umbarage to that especially since one is my senator.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. They're throwing us a bone...
..I'm throwing it back.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes...
But unfortunately its laying in a gut pile.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. I do not think Pelosi et al are listening to anyone, nor that schip and the water bill
show spine. those two bills are fully backed by the republicans.
BUT, I think the possible filibusters on Mukasey and FISA are of great possiblity. Those two possibilities make me feel like something is chainging. It is not the dlc leadership changing, but the rank and file listening to their hearts (or minds) instead of the leadership.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Well, they could have caved in and made SCHIP
veto-proof. They didn't. Dodd has also been good lately.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes Dodd was the first to stand up about FISA!
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Let's hope he gets the ball rolling
Edited on Wed Nov-07-07 04:20 PM by mvd
I think you might be right about the water bill. Perhaps that's just a consequence of how extreme Bush has gotten.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. The bi-partisan, going along with the crowd thing is easy. Standing up against injustice
is different.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. nope
I remember they had that first 100 hours agenda that they publicized like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

They didn't tell us the rest of the hours were going to be spent funding the war, condoning torture, making sure nobody in the administration is held responsible for any crimes, and so forth.

Health care for children here, while funding the killing of children there, does not count as a spine.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. And health care for children only IF people keep smoking
Kind of stupid.

Michael Moore agrees with me.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Well luckily they have people like me that smoke to pay
for kids health care. That was an easy one for the politicians. Smokers are bad anyway so make them pay. And I will. It would have been nice to spread around this tax to others.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. As a scuba diver, I've seen jellyfish and octopi ...
... with more vertebrae.


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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. what an amazing photo! Is that you?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Nope. But it's nearly identical to an encounter I had with a lion's mane jelly off Monterey ...
Edited on Wed Nov-07-07 04:30 PM by TahitiNut
... about 15 years ago. It was a startling encounter since it was close in in about 45' of water. The jelly was about 8'-10' in length ... and not something to tangle with.

Here's a photo of me ... diving at about 60' depth and takiing a video of a moray eel (and playing with it).



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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Those are the moments in life which give you great perspective...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Scuba diving ranks right at the top of my absolute favorite experiences.
It's like visiting another planet ... and one on which I could FLY! The immense joy of "flying" and visiting with a plethora of life forms (pelagics) is a thrill I'd never be able to describe adequately. After over 100 open ocean dives around Tahiti, in the Caribbean, and off the California coast, it just kept getting better.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. It is mine too.
There is little I enjoy more. Flying off Bloody Bay wall over the black depth of about 6000 feet was the most exhilarating thing I have ever done. Mostly I like to stay off by myself and look at all the cool little stuff that most people don't ever look at. It is so calming, so "other wordly" and once I took Zen Diving and really learned how to do it I can stay down for much longer. Gosh I hate making people wait on me, NOT. My personal favorite...Blennies. God they are cool.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Oh! Wall dives are awesome. I'd love to do the Caymans.
Edited on Wed Nov-07-07 05:44 PM by TahitiNut
The immense sense of freedom over the "deep blue" is beyond description ... especially when I came 'round a corner and found myself instantly in the midst of a large school of horse-eye jacks. (I did my best wall dives off Provo in Turks & Caicos.)

Yes, I also love to meander and watch the blennies flit and dart. Even more, I love to feed scrambled eggs to a huge school of butterfly fish flashing in the sunlight at about 30' down. It's like visual 'giggles'. Indescribable.

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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Oooh man
I wonder how many divers we have here. I would love to have a divers group so we could talk about this stuff. Life has gotten in the way and I have not been diving for 5 years and it is killing me not to go. I used to go every year and dive like a mad woman, 3-4 dives a day if I could squeeze them in and if my computer would let me. We need a place to talk. If you know more people who would be interested we should set up a group.

Visual giggles, I like that. Snapping shrimp always do that to me, they way they dart out and grab your pencil and yank on it. It is amazing how loud they are. There is so much wonder down there and I am devastated at what is happening to the reef. I would love to talk to you about California diving since I have never done that and Turks and Caicos has been of interest to me as well. Right now I want to head back to Honduras and try Utica and attempt to see whale sharks.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It's been about 12 years since my last dive. (Sigh!!)
Edited on Wed Nov-07-07 10:16 PM by TahitiNut
My situation has changed so much that I'm pessimistic about being able (economically AND physically) to go again. Living in Michigan doesn't permit anything close to the kind of diving I'd want to do. Freshwater dive spots around here are 'good' of the viz is 5'-10'. Nothing beats warm water open ocean dives off a dive boat, wearing just a diveskin or a thin shorty, with viz of 100'+. Shore dives in California were fascinating - the sea life was abundant - but the wetsuit, 40# of weights, and steel-95 are more than I want to deal with at this point, especially doing the "Monastery crawl" in and out of a vigorous on-shore surf.

"If I won the lottery" (my way of dreaming), I'd want to do Belize (reef and hole), the Red Sea, the Maldives, and the Great Barrier Reef. Hell ... I'd probably try to live in Cozumel or the Caymens just so I could dive whenever I wanted. I can't think of a more idyllic existence - and the post-dive "nitrogen highs."

I'd do up to four dives a day when I could, too. I maxed out my dive computer nearly every time. Another thing I like about diving ... is the people. While the newbie "fad" divers can be a pain, the more experienced folks who truly love it are kindred spirits. It's one of those rare times I feel I'm in the company of REALLY trustworthy and decent people - typically bright and open-minded, too. (Oh .. I don't do "hunting" and stay away from those who pretend to be at the top of the food chain.)

A dream would be to "tag along" on a whale shark. I actually made "friends" with the wild dolphin ("Jojo") in Grace Bay of Provo in the Turks & Caicos. He came around on a few dives and played. Then, one day, we went swimming one-on-one, me on snorkel, mask, and fins. We played together for maybe 45 minutes to an hour ... and it was a truly transcendent experience. There was never any question which one of us was 'smarter' - he was. I'm no zoologist and wasn't very well-read about dolphins. I was describing my experience to a friend over dinner in Palo Alto one evening and the people at the next table happened to be Stanford academics with expertise in dolphins. They told me that what I was describing was typical "dolphin play" and that I'd been "adopted" as a playmate. Jojo (literally) taught me. He was my guru.


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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I would imagine
that living here in Kansas our situation is similar. It costs so much to get there but the dives are not terribly cheap either.

I've done the wetsuit, 20# of weight, monastery crawl too. Not real crazy about that. Bonaire is heaven for just wanting easy but fascinating (if you are willing to look) dives but the newbie and fad divers are always crawling all over the place. I would sit on the boat and go in last, waaaaay last so that the animals had come back after the flailing. You can't get lost there, wall on the left out, wall on the right back in lol. The one and only place I ever did a gorilla dive was out in open ocean off the coast of Guanaja, Honduras. We hit on the right time for Grouper spawning and happened to be there when the Explorer club president was there to see it so we got to dive under the Explorer flag. 90 feet straight down as fast as you could go because the current was so bad you had to hang on to anything you could find. Our fins waving like flags behind us. Grouper so thick you could hardly see except when they would part and a big old Bull Shark would swim through and there were tons of them but they were very well fed thank goodness. When we came up the 7 of us were scattered far and wide and you just had to wait until the boat found you. It was a trip. We went back two more years, I never did the dive again. I am not a happy camper when it gets like that so I just rode the boat out because I like the ride.

The Blue Hole...I got half way out from the boat to the hole and lost my air supply so I did not do it. Darned BC broke. I was OK with that since we did 135 feet the day before in preparation and I was not impressed. I like the colorful sea life when you can actually see colors and just really do not want to work real hard, I have fun.

That experience with Jojo is amazing. How cool is that? I'll bet you never forget that one. Lucky you. I saw dolphins shadowing us once but never been that close to them.

Divers are for the most part a great group. Always fun and always sharing experiences. I really really miss it. Maybe once, someday we will both get back. Yes my fondest desire would be to live on an island and dive every day. What a life huh? Meet you above the reef (a Zen diving saying :))
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. WOW
what a picture! As a scuba nut myself I live (or dive) to see something like that. How cool would that be? Great shot.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I only wish I could get the quality of photos like that.
It takes good equipment and EXCELLENT color-balancing to get a photo to come out like that. All mine came out almost totally blue ... with the usual loss of color at 60' or so. Even strobe/flash doesn't quite hack it.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I actually got a couple of decent photos
in Hawaii of a Spanish Dancer. It was pretty big and very beautiful and seemed to want to stay around for photos even landing on my hand at one point. All the rest of my photos were not so hot.

It actually looked pretty much like this one.

Cool Spanish Dancer video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBlB1-EabgI

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VP505 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. I don't
Edited on Wed Nov-07-07 04:15 PM by vpilot
think they are. Or I should say as a group I don't think they are.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. sending SCHIP back is good, but they should use those tactics on BIG issues like war, impeachment...
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. No... the only spine I see is in the books they read.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. After yesterday's display of spinelessness???? Hell no.
Did you watch the Impeachment vote? Did you watch Schumer and DiFi vote for Mukasey? No, the Democrats are a bunch of spineless, useless good-for-nothing WIMPS.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. Backbone? From our reps?
with a few exceptions (Kucinich) forget it
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
32. No.
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