Robert Redford Exposes Hillary: "But we did know. That’s just bull—-. We just rolled over.”

Those words remind us that the perennially youthful Sundance Kid is now 71 (ironically, the same age as GOP candidate John McCain, who many consider too old to be president). Though the actor-director-activist might be riding off into the sunset, he’s still passionate about the state of our nation. “The values that this administration has trashed,” he said, his voice trailing off in disgust. “It’s going to take a long time to dig out of this hole.”

Later, talking about the scene where Streep tells her editor that she doesn’t want to be used as a pawn

Later, talking about the scene where Streep tells her editor that she doesn’t want to be used as a pawn in another march to war, Redford dismisses the easy excuses now offered by the body politic. “Like Hillary Clinton has said, ‘If I’d known then what I know now’ . But we did know. That’s just bull—-. We just rolled over.”

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/643028,CST-FTR-red09.article

Nice attempt at promoting his new movie, though.

propaganda. Everyone here at DU was watching Powell's sham of a presentation and screaming "BULLSHIT"! If they had something more convincing than the forged Niger yellowcake story and the "mobile weapons labs" they sure as hell would have used it to convince (and scare) the American public. If they gave a damn about National security they never would have outed Valerie Plame or gone into Iraq in the first place.

First, the storyline:

Now, the politics of Robert Redford:

I wish the kid had kept his face out of the sun. He is looking kind of wrinkly.

Robert Redford is..he's a very beautiful man.

though the reasons for him being there have changed. :loveya:

Long story involving a Trustafarian musician and a music video made in a dive in Athens, GA, but he STILL hasn't called!

And I refuse to take him off my future husband's list even though....:P

that officials tried to stop filming of Lions for Lambs.

http://www.pr-inside.com/liberal-redford-believes-officials-tried-r238700.htm

(snip)

He (Redford) says, "For the new film, I wanted a shot of Meryl Streep, who plays a veteran political journalist, coming down the steps of the Russell Senate Office Building in Washington.

"I was initially told it wasn't a problem. Word finally got back that the head of security wanted to speak to me directly. Directly? I thought that was odd. He ended up telling me no, which seemed to give him a certain amount of pleasure.

"Then, when our production designer inquired about taking measurements inside the building so we could recreate it for our sets - not an uncommon request, we started hearing questions like, 'Is this that Redford movie?' The tone of the question suggested it would be some sort of lefty picture, as if I were going to shoot down the whole building.

"In the end, we put in a call to Barack Obama, and he made it possible to get what we needed."

We can now expect to see Clinton's most loyal fan-club members here on DU trying to tear-down Redford's reputation and accuse him of helping the GOP by spreading right-wing talking points (which is how they respond to most of the legitimate fact-based criticizm of Senator Clinton's record and statements).

This should be fun! :popcorn:

"I am Apollo11, and I recommended this thread." B-)

Anybody with eyes can see what she did.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

calculated-ass policies. ;)

They'll wait for some new poll to continue shilling for her.

Robert is never hotter than when he's a-crusadin'

before being sure of victory as a precondition to action.

From the same Sun Times article:

"Still, Redford realizes that his movie is not an easy sell, especially in a season with lots of similarly themed films. "I knew this was going to be one of those projects that stirs controversy even before it gets made," he said. "But I accept that. I've seen that happen before with 'All the President's Men,' 'The Candidate' or even 'Quiz Show.' "

So he made the movie, even though he doesn't expect it to receive a fair reception. "You bet I did. Because what else can I do as an individual or as an artist? Just try to dramatize an issue, put it out there, make people at least think."

Indeed!

We were in the streets! We were writing! Millions of us! It was obvious to Kucinich. It was obvious to Feingold. It was obvious to Wellstone.

It was obvious. Period. All else is a LIE, in a pathetic, corrupt attempt to cover up a war crime.

Wish I could recommend you.

Intolerable.

I think that's one of the things that grates on me the most: the pretentious, condescending attitudes of campaigning politicians. Yes, I know it tries one's patience to hear the same old questions over and over again, but spinning total bullshit in response is, for me, a disqualifier for that candidate when the issue is as momentous as invading and occupying another nation. Tonkin Gulf was bad enough against the standards of the times ... the IWR was beyond redemption.

How well I remember those days leading up to that IWR vote when many here were faxing, calling, emailing Congress...

That's why I cannot give any of those who voted 'aye' a pass. Not a single one because if WE FUCKING KNEW, they had to, too!

Good on you, Sundance!

They ALL knew that a vote FOR the IWR was a Vote FOR War.
Robert Byrd (among others) TOLD them so from the floor of the Senate.

Hillary KNEW.
Hillary voted FOR the IWR for 2 reasons.

1)Her financial backers at AIPAC and the Armaments Industry (DLC) told her to vote FOR the IWR.

2)She thought it would look good on her presidential resume.

I wonder if the weight of all those useless deaths ever get to her late at night?

Hillary KNEW.
Those here (DU) that try to argue that "Bush lied to her" also KNOW.
They just don't care.

Hillary KNEW.
They ALL knew.

Her is a list of those who had the integrity and conscience to vote AGAINST the IWR.
The BLOOD in NOT on their hands.

The Democratic Party Honor Roll
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.

IWR

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu

A vote I cast that meant something.

Baldwin and Feingold. They are top notch. Wish I could say the same for Kohl.

She's learned that she can do it again and then claim ignorance.

What other possible reason would she vote for a bill that could lead us down a path to war with Iran ? I'm really afraid, it's already a done deal...

Robert Redford rocks in to the sunset!:yourock:

Thanks for the thread, kpete.:thumbsup:

For A Must See Movie For All
And That Includes All Dedicated Activists
For Truth And Justice.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:kick:

in the late 70's when the business roundtable and media magnates began to get their feet on this march to corporatism.

One of his movies, "Spy Game," is a must see.

"If If you don't STAND for something, you might FALL for anything"

Lions For Lambs HD Trailer- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRFynOCVMxM

"Lions for Lambs begins after two determined students at a West Coast University, Arian (Derek Luke) and Ernest (Michael Pena), follow the inspiration of their idealistic professor, Dr. Malley (Robert Redford), and attempt to do something important with their lives.
But when the two make the bold decision to join the battle in Afghanistan, Malley is both moved and distraught.

Now, as Arian and Ernest fight for survival in the field, they become the string that binds together two disparate stories on opposite sides of America. In California, an anguished Dr. Malley attempts to reach a privileged but disaffected student (Andrew Garfield) who is the very opposite of Arian and Ernest. Meanwhile, in Washington D.C. the charismatic Presidential hopeful, Senator Jasper Irving (Tom Cruise), is about to give a bombshell story to a probing TV journalist (Meryl Streep) that may affect Arian and Ernest's fates."
Hmmm... Presidential hopeful-- B-) Tom Cruise B-) ... I can't wait to see this movie! :yourock:

at the time. For anyone to use that excuse now is a liar. They'd just stolen the 2000 elections by lying and using Daddy's Supreme Court to nullify the count in Florida and immediately after 9/11 they want to invade Iraq? Redford is right. Some of our elected reps rolled over big time and now are saying "well they lied to us". Are they that stupid?

As for Robert Redford I really admire his honesty and integrity. I like him as an actor and as an activist.

That tells me they didn't want to know.

They voted to give Bush the power to go to war because it was the politically expedient thing to do. What they didn't know was that, to quote John Kerry, Bush would "fuck it up so bad."

great movie, underrated.

I am so surprised.

Telling the truth about Sen. Clinton is not bashing, hating or anti-democratic.

...I guess life is always full of pleasant surprises...

Good film. Hope it get wide play. The college scenes were filmed here in Claremont.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

There's a reason Hillary isn't liked. Do try to pay attention.

I posted this in another thread:

Is anybody but me completely SICK of the "Well, I didn't know he'd LIE" defense???

"DUH, w'ull, I din't know he'd lie to us . . . d'uh . . ."

UNbelieveable.

For all of Hillary's degrees, acclaim and experience, she sure can't seem to read people worth a shit.

People, he's a BUSH.

He steals, he lies, he cares only about corporations and gives no shit about anyone who isn't making $300,000 per year, he breaks the law and gets away with it.

That's what he DOES. That's what ALL Bushes do and have done. For decades.

What part of this did NO one understand going in? What was so enigmatic and charming about this fortunate son assrapist that no one GOT it?

What about this war-prelude fantasy concocted by defense corporation-bought warhawks was SO iron-clad a case that attacking a nation that threatened not ONE American citizen seemed so completely plausible?

Put it this way: It's pretty bad when a satirical newspaper is far smarter than the Senate, Congress and voters:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28784

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27693

Maybe it's me reaching for the sky to want my politicians to be smarter than that . . , I don't know.

Iraq then she is too stupid to be Pres. I am sick of this stupid Asshole who thinks
he is a freakin' King & all the weak, corporate Dems in Congress that keep bowing to him.

He was refreshing - what a man.

she is stupid beyond belief and not bright enough to become president. Millions knew it was all a lie, that there were no WMD, that Iraq was not involved in 9/11, that they posed a minuscule threat to us...The list goes on and on. All one had to do was be curious enough to connect with the plethora of evidence discounting *'s "slam dunk".

What is even more reprehensible is that even now, when the lies have been exposed, she will not come forth and admit she made a mistake in voting for the war. That should send up huge warning flags. We have someone in the WH now who cannot admit making a mistake - do we want another?

And let's not have voters in two or three years come back and say "We didn't know". That one has been played out.

I told 2 American Colonels that Bush was full of BS.

I have not been wrong about a single thing about Bush,

she chose to LIE and look tough on terra for her future presidential run. She chose politics over TRUTH! She is a fucking LIAR! just like bush!

a lot of people, would ask the question: How did these Bush fascists and their DLC colluders expect to shove this unjust war down the throats of the American people, FIFTY-SIX PERCENT of whom opposed it from the beginning (NYT, February 2003; all other polls, 54%-55%), and a whopping 70% of them oppose it now and want it ended?

That, to me, is the critical question. Not that a fascist president would wage an unjust war, and not that an anthraxed Congress would sign their war powers over to him, but how did they expect to prevent a rebellion against it, by the peace-loving, justice-loving American MAJORITY?

And I believe I know the answer to that. It's staring us in the face, but we don't see it (or many still don't), because the facts have been so black-holed by the corporate news monopolies, and by our own party leaders. In the same month that they passed the Iraq War Resolution, the Anthrax Congress passed the so-called "Help America Vote Act," which provided a $3.9 billion electronic voting boondoggle, to fast-track voting machines, all over the country, run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls.

And they are...

DIEBOLD: Headed by Wally O'Dell, a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer," right up there with Ken Lay), who promised in writing to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush-Cheney in 2004"; and

ES&S: A spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalcedon Foundation (which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things).

These are the people who "counted" 80% of the nation's votes in 2004, under a veil of corporate secrecy.

It is NO ACCIDENT that this non-transparent vote counting system--replete with extremely insecure and insider riggable voting machines and central tabulators--was enacted AT THE SAME TIME as the horrible, unjust, unnecessary Iraq War that 56% of the American people opposed.

Few people noticed what the polls were saying. The opinion of the MAJORITY of the American people was downplayed and buried in the "news." 56% is a significant majority. It would be a landslide in a presidential election (and believe me, it was). Instead, we were led to believe that the majority was goose-stepping to Bush and marching off to a parcel of damned lies. But the war profiteers and their political establishment were well aware of the fraudulence of their case for war, and of the LACK OF SUPPORT for it. And they also knew that opposition to this war would only grow--as it has, to an epochal 70% antiwar majority today.

But how can they prosecute a war with 70% of the people against them?

Answer: 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting!

'TRADE SECRET' vote counting is not the only thing wrong with our election system, by any means. But it is the 'coup de grace'--the final blow. It literally makes reform impossible. We can out-fundraise and out-organize the fascist minority in this country. But we can't do anything about 'trade secret' vote rigging, because we can't SEE it. And it is the one thing that we MUST change, if we are to have any hope of restoring our democracy. It is the bottom line of democracy. Without transparent vote counting, we HAVE no democracy.

And now I'm going to say something that may be construed as "class warfare." But I have to say it, because I think it's true, and I think it's a big problem. Multi-millionaires like Robert Redford--like so many well-intentioned, progressive people, who are major players in American society--don't live on the ground floor, where the vast majority of American voters live. And they just don't see it. They don't see that it is the literal disenfranchisement of this big peace-minded, justice-minded American majority--ordinary people, workers, the poor--that is the cause of this colossal mess that our country is in. And RE-enfranchisement is the solution! Democracy is the solution!

Robert Redford. Paul Krugman. Ariana Huffington. Al Franken. George Soros. Barbara Streisand. Ed Schultz. Noam Chomsky. Gore Vidal. Al Gore. Rob Reiner. Name any progressive "mover and shaker" that you want to, who exists in the world of money and power. I'm just pulling names out of that hat.

HIGHLY PRIVILEGED people--for all the good they may do with their money and their fame (and in some cases it is considerable)--can't see the real problem here, because they don't really believe in "one person, one vote." They believe that this fascist mess needs to be solved among the rich, by the big players--by the social, political and financial elite. By people who don't have to worry where their next rent payment, or meal, is coming from. By "moral persuasion" among "gentlemen," or, failing that, by the application of MORE money and MORE power in the highly elitist, cabalistic political game that most of us are excluded from.

But this American disaster could all along have been solved--and can be solved now--simply by counting all the votes.

The "little people" knew. The maids, the garbage collectors, the nurses, the firefighters, the secretaries, the waiters, the limousine drivers, the parts assemblers, the pizza deliverers, the teachers, the sales clerks, the wage slaves, the unemployed, the poor, the young, the Vietnam vets, the pensioners, the minorities, the women--ordinary people were flocking to the Democratic Party to throw the Bushite bastards out of office. The Democratic grass roots blew the Bushites away in new voter registration, nearly 60/40, in 2004. (Where did all those votes go?)

But nobody in the American political or social establishments--not even the most progressive among the rich and the powerful--seemed to give a goddamn about this. There was some small to-do about the suppression of African American votes, which was egregious, and possibly pivotal. But not one word was breathed, by anyone in a position to be heard--anyone with money or power--about the in-your-face, no-brainer, blatant rigging of the entire election system with 'trade secret' vote counting. If the fascists couldn't purge or suppress enough African-American votes to keep Bush/Cheney in power, and to keep the presidency out of the hands of someone who would be beholden to the American people, then they could--with a few lines of computer code, in a couple of minutes, leaving no trace--change or 'disappear' votes, to any degree necessary, almost anywhere in the country. And the evidence is overwhelming that that is what they did.

October 2002. The Iraq War Resolution. The Help America Vote (for the War) Act. It seems so obvious to me. And when a man like Robert Redford--who is typical of the powerful progressives that I am talking about--states that "we all knew," that "we" does not include you and me--the majority of the American people, who were systematically disenfranchised. It is the well-heeled progressive elite talking to itself--and ignoring the American people whose will was thwarted, by very deliberate means, in a fraudulent election system that was installed for that purpose, and is still in place.

The ANSWER is to GET RID OF that rigged system NOW, and COUNT *ALL* THE VOTES!

I want to see Robert Redford down at his county registrar's office in Aspen (or wherever) demanding that his maid's and his gardener's and his limo driver's votes BE COUNTED, in public view, along with his own. I don't mean to sound snippy (and snipey). I really don't. But I think that this myopia of the wealthy progressive establishment about what the problem is, is class-based. I don't hate anyone for their money--especially not anyone who puts it to such good use as Redford does. We're all human. We're all going to die. Most of us, rich or poor, do the best that we can, with what life brings us. Some are more virtuous than others, and money has nothing to do with it. In this case, what I'm saying is that money is a handicap. It is causing a kind of blindness. And it would be a great help to the rest of us if the people with money and power would OPEN THEIR EYES on this matter, and demand that transparent vote counting be restored, as the fundamental, bottom-line condition of democracy and good government. Re-enfranchise the American people, restore our sovereignty, and our rightful rule, and we WILL reform this country.

:thumbsup:

...especially given the current mess our country is in and how critical to our future it is to get this right. But I don't think many in the country have yet'caught up' to what is going on, either in Iraq or how we choose our leaders. Redford's film takes an educational step...even though we've known for years the story he tells. A LOT of people aren't there yet.

I am trying VERY hard to be patient...and gaining strength each time one of those leaders you mentioned takes action. I think they know what needs to be done...I also think they know how traumatic this will be for the clueless...and are methodically waking them up.

And, by the way, I worry about 2008.

There's even a number assigned to her, based on the hard-right legislation that goes through Congress, to prove it!

I can understand those who'll vote for her over any Republican--I'm one of 'em--but there's little in her record to inspire loyalty. She's a celebrity, since long before she entered the Senate, and failed to use her rock-star status to halt the march to war. She's not the only one, but her popularity makes her inaction all the more tragic.

Hillary, along with all the other senators and reps. was fed a continuous stream of selective "intelligence" by this administration to force the war.

Hillary's crime, if any, was choosing to believe in the honesty of this president and vice-president.

It seemed okay, right? After all, the administration let the congress look at "secret" and "classified" documents pertaining to Iraq.

All of said documentation, we now know, was created by people who make their living out of convincing others of the validity of their lies.

Face it, while we suspected that the administration wasn't on the up-and-up, congress was being fed disinformation and lies by this administration's guile-less frontmen.

Remember the circumstances.

Regards,

And continues to LIE. Call it flip-flopping, I call it LYING! Who the fuck would vote for another LIAR like bush! Not ME!

not some fan mail or sundance mail trash bin addy?

I've written a book that I KNOW theMan will LOVE..

At the very least send him directly a short synopsis?

Most folks that know me here should know that I'm one of the Truest Liberals here, and have done some excellent work way ahead of the Regime and most times even the Democratic Party :)

PM me if you can get me past all the hoops and to this fine man, eh? Anyone who can help me get this work to Him will be handsomely rewarded should he fall for the book, that screams to be The Movie...

gee, maybe he'll have nothing to do on Thanksgiving :)

Many (not me) expected trouble in Iraq, but how many understood how big the trouble would become? Probably few.

Reduce the criticism of Hillary, she has the right values. She's just trying to beat the Republicans, and that takes compromises etc.

she concedes the primary, and when she acknowledges error and apologizes for her harmful votes and non-votes in Congress during the Bush administration.

... Providing that they watched current events.

So, Hillary knew, and Kerry knew and etc,, etc, etc.

and all our supposed leaders act like they didn't see it. Yeah, right.

Of course, anyone paying attention knew. Some stood up, and some played the political expedience card. Unfortunately political expedience won the day and much of what we've endured from this administration can be traced right back to that day. Sadly, the political games continue.

But it's very nice to hear that opinion from Redford.

usually they'd be posting this thread up with polls, etc telling us how Hillary has already won and we better get used to it.

However, they fear drawing attention to threads like this which might actually educate people on the severe flaws inherent in their candidate.

nt

Really, can't this jackass say anything else but "anti-American"? What's anti-American about voicing your opinion? Oh yeah, I forgot, since 9/11, everything changed and we have to say "sieg heil" to Bush.

very well acted, but the writing for the other two storylines seemed kind of ambiguous...