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So is the impeachment measure by Kucinich dead? nt

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:28 AM
Original message
So is the impeachment measure by Kucinich dead? nt
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'd say 99% dead as a doorknob
But only because those with the power to do it aren't interested in revealing all it would expose.

I'm not giving up, though.
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. You'll have to ask John Conyers. Better yet, why not tell Conyers....
you hope to God is isn't dead, because you care about the Constitution. Here's the email I sent to him today, btw..

Dear Representative Conyers,
Thank goodness our Founding Fathers had the foresight and wisdom to provide legal means in the US Constitution for holding public officials accountable should they break the law and egregiously abuse their authority. That remedy, of course, is Impeachment. There are no other legal means for dealing with officials in our highest offices who repeatedly behave as though they are "above the law" thereby abusing the powers granted them by the people . There can be little doubt that Vice President Cheney has committed high crimes, by both deliberately manipulating and manufacturing "intelligence" to justify waging an ill-conceived, aggressive and illegal war against Iraq. Plus, as if that were not enough, was it not illegal for Cheney to participate in the "outing" of a key Middle East CIA operative, Valerie Plame Wilson, thus putting her, along with her "assets", at great personal risk, as well as setting back US Intelligence efforts in the ME at a most inopportune moment in history.

Thank goodness too that the American public now recognizes that it has become imperative for the US House of Representatives to use its tools granted under the law of the land to reign in the Vice President's criminal behavior: as far back as July of this year, a solid 54% of the American public favored proceeding with Impeachment proceedings against the Vice President. And here we are 4 months later with a golden opportunity to do just that, thanks to the over-weaned arrogance of the GOP that motivated them to attempt to help a minority of Democrats force a debate on the issue.

Thirdly, thank goodness we have recent historical precedents: "When all is said, the only sure antidote for future Watergates is understanding of fundamental principles and intellectual and moral integrity in the men and women who achieve or are entrusted with government or political power." These are the words of Senator Samuel J. Ervin, Jr. from The Senate Watergate Report. In the "Introduction" to the historic Ervin Committee Report, it notes that one of the critical functions of the Congress is "to inform the public of any wrongdoing or abuses" of power they find the members of the executive office have committed. (see pages 39-42). This congressional duty "should be preferred even to its legislation function," according to President Woodrow Wilson (Congressional Government; page 303). This view, which the Ervin Committee said "cannot be over-emphasized," is also a well-documented part of case law as determined in two USSC cases: {2} Watkins v. United States, 354 US 178, 200 (1957); and {2} United States v. Rumely, 345 US 41, 43 (1953).

There is too much at stake now in America's current struggle to preserve our democratic institutions and constitutional integrity for the House of Representatives to simply decide it has "more important business" than to uphold the laws of the land. In fact to shrink from holding impeachment hearings would be, in effect, to put yourselves "above the law" as "hear no evil, see no evil" enablers of this Vice President's criminal behavior. Please uphold your sworn duty to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against it's adversaries, both foreign and domestic. Please perform your sworn duty to hold impeachment hearings against the Vice President.

Thank you for hopefully listening to our Watergate-era predecessors, to our founding fathers, and to the American people.

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Funny about John Conyers, he was so vocal about this before the 2006 election
now you hardly hear anything about it from him

The last 8 years have shown me that nader was more correct than not, that both parties are more alike than different

I remember when the repugs threatened to use the Nuke option for filibustering judges, and 15 of our illustrious Senators compromised that it would not be used except in extraordinary circumstances, which were never defined. Subsequently, some of the most radical judges were appointed to the bench.

The IWR was approved, knowing full well that it violated the War Powers Act.
The Patriot was approved, knowing full well that it violated the Constitution

We were promised all kinds of investigations after the 2006 election, and that has amounted to very little

Today we have Democratic Senators who are more than willing to grant immunity to companies that participated in the illegal wire tapping

There is something very wrong going on in Washington. Our republic was built on representative government, but it seems that Congress is more interested in representing special interests than their constituents

Yes, I will vote Democratic in 2008, only because of the Supreme Court, but in all honesty, I have very little faith that our representatives will do the right thing





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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Dems: How to get screwed both coming and going
"when the repugs threatened to use the Nuke option for filibustering judges, and 15 of our illustrious Senators compromised that it would not be used except in extraordinary circumstances, which were never defined. Subsequently, some of the most radical judges were appointed to the bench."

–> screwed coming to "compromise" insuring the appointment of RW radicals to judiciary posts, and
–>screwed going by having to "honor our commitment" (translation: "tie our own legislative hands behind
our backs") for Rethugs and ONLY use filibuster under "extraordinary" circumstances (translation: "when Hell freezes over")



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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. If they had called the repukes bluff, when they regained the majority in 2006
what comes around goes around

The party had better get its act together, because it is getting very difficult what they stand for, except in vague generalities



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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. I vote for dead. Dead as our democracy or free republic. It was a good run. But the tyranny horse is
out of the barn and I don't believe we can get her back in without violence. It is the last thing i want, but the die is cast. I am not sure what the Democratic strategy is but i am not holding my breath.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. There is no Democratic strategy. It is the "hope" that the republicans self-destruct
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)


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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. No, Not At All
This was a great week for the impeachment effort in general. And while the Kucinich measure is only a part of that effort, it got to a committee instead of being tabled, thanks to GOP meddling.

This means there is now a specific item to be advanced and specific actors to target. Even though the Kucinich measure is flawed in that it does not include bush or highlight torture (the winning charge), his success with it -- though limited -- has raised the profile of the general effort and energized supporters.

Maybe most importantly, this week saw the addition of 2 new huge "impeachment guns" -- Ed Schultz and Randi Rhodes. Though they've both been generally impeachment-friendly (i.e., rhetorically) up to now, this week saw them drumming on it with guests. Randi in particular turned a corner yesterday in saying that she'll no longer shy away from "airing dirty laundry" (i.e., she'll stop defending the impeachophobes in DC).

The Mukasey battle also put into stark relief just how directly the DC Dems are aiding and abetting torture and war crimes by the failure to confront the regime, apply the rule of law, and defend the Constitution by impeaching (the only option for DOING anything).

The Kucinich measure may well prove to be the needed camel's nose under the tent.

--
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. That is the way I see it
In fact Historians will call Boehner's manouver the greatest political mistake of a generation

And both of those hosts have been great about it
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kelligesq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Its not dead as long as we keep it alive by calling n demanding impeachment hearings
free phone number to the capitol 1 800 862 5530

call everybody on both juiciary commmittees,

Pelosi and Hoyer and tell them if they dont have the

hearings you wont work for dems, wont contribute 

money, and will switch your voter registration to 

Independent (ala lou dobbs).

Great quote from Arthur Silber:

"This is where we've come: two criminal gangs run the
United States from Washington. Neither of them understands the
supreme and sacred value of an individual human life. Neither
understands any matter of principle relating to liberty or
peace. Both of them are intent upon power, no matter how many
innocent people must die, and regardless of how many countries
must be destroyed, including our own."
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Well, I wouldn't say great
I'm not a regular Schutz listener, but Randi has been infuriating -- at least until now -- by saying things like "she can understand" their reasoning for impeachophobia. It was only yesterday that she seemed to "get it" that there is only Impeach or Enable. It remains to be seen how she is going forward.

As for Schultz, even though I'm less familiar, judging by what others have posted here he seems to have turned the corner as well. Perhaps before this week, but stll relatively recently.

If this is true and remains so, they can exert a level of pressure orders of magnitude higher than we've had to date.

--
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. No, it isn't. Please call Conyers office (head of the Judiciary)

And, then call Nancy & let her have an earful.

From the action alerts I have been reading, they are getting a huge number of calls. Have you made your phone calls, yet?
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