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Larisa Alexandrovna: Alan Dershowitz was against Nazis before he was for them?

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 10:48 AM
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Larisa Alexandrovna: Alan Dershowitz was against Nazis before he was for them?

Larisa Alexandrovna| BIO | I'M A FAN OF THIS BLOGGER
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Alan Dershowitz was against Nazis before he was for them?

Posted November 11, 2007 | 08:49 AM (EST)


Welcome to the dessert of the real in which a Jewish man can cite Nazis in defense of torture tactics. I was raised on the Holocaust. I went to a highly religious school where many of my teachers and guest lecturers were Holocaust survivors.

My family talked about the Holocaust at every opportunity, remembering those who were imprisoned, tortured, and murdered, including members of my family. I lived under the Soviet regime, which also tortured and murdered. I have never met or spoken with any Jew who has ever defended torture, no matter who the "scapegoat" is.

Apparently, there are some Jews who are more than willing to become the very monsters they abhor. This mentality I do not understand and never will.

Take for example the latest Alan Dershowitz column in the Wall Street Journal. Aside from getting the new meme on Mukasey about how the Democrats are beholden to MoveOn.org - echoed by meister Rove, President Bush, Dick Cheney, and the right wing propaganda machine as if one ring ruled them all - Dershowitz actually writes this:

"There are some who claim that torture is a nonissue because it never works--it only produces false information. This is simply not true, as evidenced by the many decent members of the French Resistance who, under Nazi torture, disclosed the locations of their closest friends and relatives."


This statement defies logic. Even if in some instances Nazi tactics worked, why would anyone endorse them for any reason, especially a Jewish man? Dershowitz, and others like him - Joe Lieberman, et al - do not speak for Jews, nor do they speak for Israel. In fact, the far right regime that has co-opted Israel and the US both is not representative of Judaism or Christianity for that matter. Whatever or whomever it is they represent, it is not the Israeli people or the American people. It is as though a multi-national organized crime syndicate has taken over both countries and is using the cover of religion as a shield against criticism.

more...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/alan-dershowitz-was-again_b_72076.html
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 10:59 AM
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1. Dershowitz omitted an important use for torture.
Edited on Sun Nov-11-07 11:00 AM by Boojatta
Torturing people who make records of late trains is a wickedly effective way to get a reputation for always running trains on time.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 02:27 PM
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2. Sadly, Dershowitz & Lieberman provide false "examples" for anti-Semitism among bigots on the Left.
Edited on Sun Nov-11-07 02:36 PM by David Zephyr
Alan Dershowitz, once someone I greatly admired, has a lot of digging to do to restore his reputation with me because of his clear and unambiguous support of torture which only further enabled Bush's war and war policies back when they both were popular. His torture stand will most likely overshadow his many other great achievements. That's a problem that he alone will have to deal with. And I doubt that this single article by Larisa Alexandrovna will be the last one about him, as time and perspective provide a historical consensus on this period in our nation. And yet, as I read this article, I could almost hear Anti-Semites, not on the Right, but from "our side" licking their chops at an opportunity to create a false linkage between the opinions of one man, Dershowitz, and that of all Jews.

We are our brother's keeper. And our sister's, too.

So, here's a plea to all non-Jews, like myself, on the Left and especially those in the DU Community that we will be vigilant against any who would try to extrapolate the positions of someone like Dershowitz on torture, or that of Joe Lieberman -- an advocate, thus far, of U.S. military action against Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Syria (all Muslim nations) -- into a larger, and very false contextual framework, against Jews. I see it here at the DU from time to time and it disturbs me.

As a member of one minority, also a victim of thousands of years of violent oppression, legal discrimination, and, cultural disdain, I know first hand how all-too-quickly any idiotic or bad behavior by any one in the GLBT community is immediately held up and spotlighted by bigots as an "example" to the world of who we are. It seems that bigots lie in wait for such "opportunities" to paint with the broadest brush imaginable an entire community of peoples they have unresolved issues with. I know because I see it all the time.

It's important to point out the obvious about this article: it is written by a Jew. No one needs to lecture Jews on the Left about Joe Lieberman and or Alan Dershowitz. One can criticize their actions and their words all one may want and I'll be there with you, but should one turn it into a "Jewish thing", then my eyebrows elevate by instinct that there's another agenda afloat.

Fortunately (and I really mean this), the great, great majority of those of us on the Left understand that it has been Jewish Americans at the forefront of civil rights for all minorities in this country, for labor rights, for women's rights, for peace, and most every social/economic/environmental justice issue since the founding of this nation. Even the most casual study of the history of labor organizing in our country alone reveals martyrdom and imprisonment of Jewish men and women who deserve our honor and gratitude.

For my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, may I point out to you that when the results came in from of the "anti-gay marriage ballot initiative" that passed several years back here in California, that of all demographic groups other than our own, the initiative passed overwhelmingly with only one glaring exception: California Jews voted against the initiative by over 70%. Don't ever tell me that Jews are not "there" for us when the shit hits the fan. For that, I am always grateful

Every minority has their reactionaries. In my community, we even have "ex-gays", so how self-loathing is that? They "rob me of anger and leave me only with despair" to quote the lovley Dulcinea from The Man of La Mancha.

Kudos to Larisa Alexandrovna for her article and for shaming Alan. I hope he reads every word and contemplates his personal shame, if that is possible.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 06:01 PM
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3. Big rec for relevancy
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