what Chavez said to the neo con King of Spain who told him to shut up

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071110/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/chile_summit_spat;_ylt=AqLStL0u4E__EnmPrp6hdkis0NUE


(Chavez had said: Aznar, a conservative who was an ally of Bush as prime minister, "is a fascist," Chavez said in a speech at the Ibero-American summit in Santiago, Chile. "Fascists are not human. A snake is more human." then the King said shut up)


Chavez said:

"I do not offend by telling the truth," he said. "The Venezuelan government reserves the right to respond to any aggression, anywhere, in any space and in any manner."

nt

The Spanish people overthrew the monarchy, elected a democratic and progressive government, then the wealthy and a lot of right-wing Americans(like the owners of Texaco, who gave Franco airplane fuel on credit for his bombers)overthrew democracy. Franco set it up that Juan Carlos would be crowned with Franco finally died.

El Rey De Espana is still "dancin' with the one that brung him".

And Aznar, for those who don't know, led the Popular Party, the successor party to the Franco's Falangist. These days, they pretend to be "mainstream free-market conservatives".

The confused old king must think the southern continent and its people still are his subjects. I'm the king. Shut up.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

And I am not afraid to offend by telling the truth, either. Nuthugger, my granny.

and WRONG!

Link please.

The evidence seems to indicate that several Chavez fanatics, operating on their own initiative, shot anti-Chavez students.

They did it so they could have fun killing demonstrators AND embarass Hugo at the same time.

Face it, the anti-Chavista position is about restoring the rich to dominance, NOT about "democracy and free speech".

seriously

his fellow socialist, Zapatera. Zapatera was making a speech. Chavez interrupted. Juan Carlos rudely jumped in. Both the King and the President were dead rude. And anyone who doesn't understand that fascists are all too human, and uses the language that Chavez does, simply doesn't get it. He needs to read some Hannah Arendt.

I'm in awe of your ability to make an argument.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

you don't jump in and interrupt; you wait and then respond.

holding your tongue.

On the list of things that might excuse poor manners, passionately objecting to fascism ranks high in my book.

remotely a fascist, and even under Aznar Spain didn't see a fascist shift. It was about ego- both Chavez' ego and the King's. Zapatera was the one behaving reasonably.

Why the bait and switch?

Yours was the first post that indicated any knowledge that Spain has an elected president - Zapatera - who is a socialist. Spain's King Juan Carlos is a "king" in much the same sense that Queen Elizabeth II is Queen of England.

Anyone who knows any history of Mexico and Central and South America knows their subjugation by Spain and Portugal was as brutal as it gets. Genocide, imposed slave labor, theft of untold wealth in gold and silver and the resultant grinding poverty over the last centuries is a direct result of what Spanish royalty have done in the past. Now they want the native leaders of the Americas to shut up about it. Yeah, sure!

:nopity:

Cry us a river your highness about how rude Chavez is! Are you going to defend Franco, the Fascist who deposed your family too because he was a Spaniard?

nt

so now we see why there is such an attack on Chavez here on DU. They didn't like hearing that a leader of a Socialist Democratic country calling out fascists. People attacking Chavez are NOT liberal or Progressive, not if they researched the truth about a man who works for the poor and middle class. I see much twisting of the truth to attack Chavez.... why is it permitted? I thought propaganda was scoffed upon. I suspect there may be those few who have lot's of money and do not like seeing wealth distribution helping those on the lower parts of the economic ladder, so they spread lies to demonize this man. Those same folks who do, are never criticizing others totalitarian leaders around the world.... funny that.

PS - pakistan=zilch

You do the math

Aznar was a deeply unpleasant leader, but his rule clearly wasn't fascist.

Chavez has made free, fair elections in Venezuela impossible. That so many DUers defend him just because he's a left-winger and says nasty things about Bush is unsurprising but depressing.

Good for the King of Spain.

feel free to make pronouncements is unsurprising and depressing.

You are defending the heir of one of the nastiest Empires in history. Chavez doesn't hold a candle to the atrocities of the Spanish Empire who were masters of exploitation. Every one of their colonies has been left in shreds because of Spanish historical entitlement and greed. Chavez may not be to your liking but he's restoring some of the wealth to the natives who had nothing thanks to the invasions and exploitations of countries like Spain and Portugal.

Juan Carlos was instrumental in ushering in democracy after Franco. His heritage doesn't change that in the least. I don't hold someone's heritage against them, and I find it disturbing that you apparently do. One of my dearest friends is a descendant of an infamous Nazi. She's one of the most liberal, dearest people I know, and she's done tremendous good in the world. According to YOUR logic, she should be condemned simply because of her ancestry.

And I for one applaud much of what Chavez has done. He's still a bombastic egotist who lacks self-control.

that Spain has inflicted on the Americas and not be quite so ready to demand silence from the upstarts. And no, I don't think being related to former monsters automatically makes you guilty. But remembering history does come in handy in diplomatic parlance. Evidently your historical knowledge either doesn't cover the Spanish colonization of Central and South America or you are ignoring its importance. There is a historical grudge between Spain and Latin and South American countries which is very similar to the grudge Native Americans have against the white Americans who took their lands and it's also similar to the grudge Blacks have for being enslaved. History is part and parcel of national psyches. Understanding it is the first step towards addressing it diplomatically. Your friend is blameless for having Nazi relatives, but not if she defends them and their actions.

Sorry, I'm aware of the hideous history of Spanish colonization in SA. But comparing an infamous Nazi to Aznar is ludicrous. The bottom line is that both Chavez and the king were rude. Sometimes things actually are that simple.

I agree they were both rude. Too bad we don't hear about the other important things discussed at that meeting.

Would we expect Junior to sit there and be insulted? No.

So, what's up with the double standard? :)

Monarchs can do some good things, such as instituting democratic reforms like this King, but it will be a cold day in hell before they give back any of their ill-gotten gains.

extends only so far as his portfolio must.

lol

That is nothing but excuses for present day hatred and violence.

WAAAHHH!!!!! YOUR great-great-great-great grandfather enslaved / abused / cheated MY great-great-great-great grandfather! :sarcasm:

That's the type of shit the IRA used as excuses for their violence against Protestants and the British, shit that happened HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO!

And yet the people of Venezuela and the other emerging social democracies of South America LOVE him.
He plays well to his supporters.
I am sure he doesn't really care what YOU think about him.
Venezuela belongs to Venezuela.
It is none of our business.

You certainly don't seem to know much about current events in Spain. The country has one of the most progressive constitutions in the world. Spain elected a strong socialist president and an out lesbian socialist vice-president. The country offers a wide variety of human rights that the United States is far from achieving.

The United States empire is evil right now. The Spanish empire was evil 500 years or so ago. Please catch up.

posts on the several threads on this topic, my local radio talkshow wingnut, who lived and studied in Spain, replied:

**************QUOTE************
Yeah, I saw the clip and El Rey WAS pissed! Bravo for him. Juan Carlos has had tons of experience navigating his country from Franco and fascism to modernity (and high prices). He has to look at Chavez as a fool. I saw Juan Carlos in 1972 when he and his wife came to Segovia and walked the streets, saw him at about 50 yards. I think they are more popular than other monarchs in Europe.

*******UNQUOTE*********


Here are my posts in the other threads:

As a Democratic party member in the fullest democratic sense, I am:

1) anti-royalist, anti-elitist, which classes I regard as left-over parasites.

2) anti-Fascist.

3) anti-AZNAR and anti-Shrub, having said back at the time of the FAKE alliance of AZNAR's defying 90+ percent of his country's will and his country's religious leader's will, that Shrub had just hit it off with him because Shrub had to look hard to find world leaders shorter than him.

4) and despite having enjoyed it when CHAVEZ called Shrub Satan and smelling of sulphur.



===========Despite all of these things, I am thoroughly enjoying parasite Juan Carlos telling CHAVEZ to STFU!1


Ordinarily I would Alert on all CHAVEZ threads and request they be confined to the Latin American forum where I would never see them. And fresh from another one a couple of days ago in LBN where there was the usual CHAVEZ flamefest--yet, I just LUERVE this!1

Please, this is in the same vein as my cussing at the t.v. every time Shrub's puss is on it. I don't need the lectures on how unintellectual my post is, how I'm spouting White House and/or M$M "talking points," *or* any other flaming thing that glorifies CHAVEZ.

No, it was NOT miscontrued, was not "softened by tone or gestures." It was, "!?Por que not te CALLAS?!1" meaning "Why don't you SHUT UP?!1"

Just saw the tape on Univision and that's the way it was. As for "tone and gestures" the King-a-ding-ding was PISSED and leaned out from the row of seated peeps to SMACK DOWN Chavez face to face. I don't recall whether he actually pointed at CHAVEZ, but there was NO "softening" AT ALL.

English language accounts have repeated that the words and connotations were words and a tone "used (in anger) with CHILDREN." Actually, if a "king" weren't involved, and this exchange took place in a cantina, the next step would be fisticuffs.


Vicente FOX did the same thing to CASTRO at one of the first of Shrub's meetings, when CASTRO was barred from being in the same place at the same time. FOX had a lower protocol status in talking to CASTRO than the King dude does with CHAVEZ, but FOX used the same familiar, big-footing tone.

King shutting up CHAVEZ: Yes, somebody posted in another thread that perhaps it was something polite, that "tone and gestures" might have "softened" it. HAH!1 I just saw it on Univision, and the King-a-ding-ding was totally PISSED and leaned forward out of the row of peeps to say it to CHAVEZ face to face. Some English language descriptions are saying it was the words and tone "used (in anger) WITH CHILDREN." On the tape, the dude said, "?Por que no TE CALLAS?!" ("Why don't you SHUT UP?!" with the familiar "tu" (te), not the formal, respectful "usted". )

*******QUOTE*******

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/071111/photos_wl_afp/fd45723e5aa671579fa43f92b68ef894



Spain's King Juan Carlos (R) shouts at Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, "Why don't you shut up?" after Chavez interrupted the speech of Spanixh President Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero(L), on the last day of the XVII Ibero-American Summit.





A combination photo shows Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez speaking during a speech at the closing session of the XVII Ibero-American Summit (right photo) and Spain's Prime Minister Jose Luiz Rodriguez Zapatero (L)

********UNQUOTE*******

is insulted or the first or last time that a progressive leader counters that insult.

It's all about him!1 He's a DISTRACTION to the people's needs and agenda. IF--------BIG IF-----he really *is* actualizing progressive goals, SURELY among all of his supposedly millions of supporters there is SOMEBODY ELSE who can do the job without constantly being a BOORISH A-HOLE!1


Look, as your cohorts never fail to tell me, Venezuelans ELECTED him. If that is what they want, FINE WITH ME!1 I just thank Zeus I don't have to live under him. It's bad enough hearing glorious things about him on DU!1 (And, no, to your cohorts since you won't flame this like them, there is NOTHING I like about living under Shrub.)


The Venezuelans I see on Spanish cable and such appear to be as beautiful and sophisticated as any. It's a mystery why they want their image to be this BOORISH A-HOLE!1 A mystery that I ACCEPT!1 (If griping and caterwauling all the way!1)

There is nothing "progressive" about his jackoff opinions about everything outside of his country's borders or his own skin. As you know, I have been told that I shouldn't critize San Hugo until I, personally, have fixed everything in the U.S. When HE shuts up, *I* will.

will be that his constituency will applaud him for refusing to sit there and be publicly insulted. The king just did him a favor, as far as I can tell.

:shrug:

But I wonder about your pronouncement:

Chavez has made free, fair elections in Venezuela impossible.

Do you have some proof of this? My understanding is that his election in Venezuela was monitored by Jimmy Carter's organization. It was conducted on electronic voting machines but 50-55% of the vote was audited with a hand count to make sure the vote was correct.

Maybe I'm missing something? How has Chavez made free, fair elections in Venezuela impossible?

Would to God we had free, fair elections in this country. Our vote is counted in total secrecy without verification on electronic voting machines (about 80-85% of the vote). In other words, we don't even have a democracy.

Chavez will make mistakes as all men will, but his heart at the moment to me seems to be in the right place. I'd much rather have Chavez as my president at the moment than George Bush.

made free, fair elections in Venezuela impossible :wtf:

Please elaborate? Last time I checked Venezuela has held a series of quite free and quite fair elections of late. If you want to claim otherwise I suggest you provide some evidence. And maybe send it to Jimmy Carter too, cuz he'd sure wanna know if his Carter Center was getting it that wrong.

And "good for the king of Spain?" Double WTF

:wtf: :wtf:

And why not Yaaay for Kings everywhere! Up up with fascism! Whooopie fascism!

the grandfather Alphonso XIII had nominally abdicated a decade after fleeing the Spanish Republic in 1931.

deserves to be called on it.

Sloganeering is so weak.

say?

Many countries ally themseles to the U.S. and whatever president that's in the White House, and that includes Socialist countries as well as others. I'm sure Zapatera who is a socialist considers Spain an ally to the U.S. He's decidedly not a fascist. And neither is Juan Carlos. And he's not a neocon either, for that matter.

bush is a fascist and anyone who is an ally like anzar is a fascist.

Fascist is as fascist does.

I said because "the other person" wasn't getting it?

Glad you're here to referee, though.

else's point, not repeat the same point over and over with your hands over your ears.

fucking clue, do you?

cali was asking you not to make goofy generalizations, and you respond by saying your goofy generalization is valid under certain conditions you didn't originally specify. What I'm saying is that you did not address cali's point, just modified your original statement slightly.

and thanks for verifying my question.

I thought he/she had a good point.

the "king" should shut the fuck up.

and how'd you get to be that then?

obtain and maintain power

:shrug:

follow procedure, follow protocol. It's what we'd expect from one another.

Just remember though.... sometimes it's ok... and fun... to color outside the lines...

I'm a nanny state kind of guy. I just want to make sure that my nanny is competent and is looking out for my best interests.

:evilgrin:

Stay Safe Hugo!

a hot item on DU.. I think he's handling a tough job with more credence than the people who call him a dictator, ever could.

the rudeness and manners.

Didn't MLK and Gandhi have plenty to be pissed off and outraged about?

Did you ever see either one of them interrupt someone during a speech?

If so, please let me know when and where, because I'm not aware of either
one of them ever doing so.

a racist city. things that meant something. things that REALLY made people angry. angry enough to blow up churches

remember that?

That's the whole point!!

Where would we be if they hadn't done so?!?

Sheesh!

I'm talking about interrupting someone while they are giving a speech,
as in manners.

Please narrow it down to what I'm talking about.

by all means, stand with those that condemn the Code Pink ladies

they should just keep their mouths shut, too

manners

what a joke

n/t

eom

or MLK..Maybe they don't hide behind "manners" down there in South America.

I'd rather have someone who interrupted a speech than a fookin' bushite who ENABLED the War On Iraq.

The fact that you're "not aware" of it happening is hardly historical evidence. You have only your idealized version of both men to go on.

What evidence do you have or are you reiterating something
we already know?

None, just like me. So why even bother with the comparison? It's laughable, like condemning somebody who's pissed on the side of a road by proclaiming that - as far as you know - Martin Luther King never pissed on the side of a road - the demanding evidence to the contrary! It's a stupid comparison, and useless.

You actually made it to two posts
before insulting someone.

:thumbsup:

Did I " demand" evidence?

Where?

:rofl:

It's all in a days work for you.

:)

The analogy is right on. You came up with what you thought was a brilliant lesson, and it turned out to be dumb. It's not a big deal. No need to get all worked up about it.

:hi:

Have a nice day!

:hi:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

You wish!

:rofl:

You supposedly know me...you even have a little nickname for me. This is strange, since I have no idea who you are, and probably never saw your user name before. That's creepy, Kat. :-)

" It's OK to make fun of anyone".

( a first I wish I could forget)

Yes- that's it!

Energizer Bunny- keeps going and going and going
until his posts are deleted.

Stalk you?

Don't flatter yourself.


:hi:

btw; Who was on this thread first?

Looks like you're stalking me.

Let's end this discussion, OK?- tried two posts up.

If not- you're living up to your nickname.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

one who keeps going until posts are deleted. Check the mirror, Squeaky.

No one can believe you posted that comment.

Put in print- it's too much and gets deleted.

But rock on, bunny!
Knock yourself out.



eom.

:shrug:

I like how you think the Bunny thing annoys me, though! It's cute.

It's also funny how you're guilty of everything you're accusing me of!

Gandhi never interrupted anyone so that makes him, what? A great leader?

:rofl:

during his beerhall rants


oh. they did.

and they were killed

oops

You know, on a scale of 1 - 10, interrupting a speech when the United States government is trying to kill you is just not something that I can condemn.

lol

:banghead:

Amazing. Do you know anything about him at all? He's far from being a "hitler". Wow.

did I mention the great King at all?

and a great King he was, as are all kings, interested only in the well-being of their subjects, the furtherance of democracy, and the distribution of their own wealth to the benefit of the least of their own subjects.

and spare me your superior knowledge card, which you love to play above all else

The point was that some people deserve to be interrupted when they say something untrue, from Hitler down to Zapatero and anyone else.

Geez, the point was that if someone had the guts to interrupt Hitler, they should have, and this guys deserves interruption too.

Comparison is valid. It doesn't have to be 100% comparison on every little detail to make the comparison.

* for instance is no Hitler, but there are some similarities, and we are allowed to comment on and discuss them.

Talk about anti-intellectualism. Hitler stands for tyranny of the mind over mind, period, and comparisons can be made without the person having to be equally as "evil."

the contortions people are willing to go through to defend the indefensible is mind boggling. Who are you to say Zapatera deserved to interrupted during a speech. Chavez could have waited, and Gaby is the one who made the ludicrous comment about Hitler. Your post is apologist nonsense.

a lot of class and civility.

That does still count for something
I would hope.

just sitting there and allowing himself to be insulted would be a loss of both class and civility.

Newsflash: Leaders of other countries aren't playing to US audiences. :wow:

If so, I miss that.

No problem there.

stay civil, no matter what

stay in your own class

keep your mouth SHUT!

Please show me where I said that.

Where did I say Chavez shouldn't say anything at all?

we teach it in grade school

hyperbole comes in junior high

now find something else over which to obsess in your meaninglessly polite, overly constrained/literalistic world

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/infer

as to ' to derive as a conclusion from facts or premises'.


Here's another one,

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/assumption

please see 4 and 5.


Please explain the difference to your students.

i greatly enjoy your condescending superiority and snark. it makes you look SO clever and intelligent.

Above all, do not make waves. "Gracefully surrender the things of youth -- clean air, Taiwan . . "

Let's not stick to the main point-

Hell no- Let's expand it beyond anyone's imagination!

Code Pink are the same as heads of State!
They should all act the same way.

:sarcasm:

This is fucking ridiculous!!



eom.

impolite.

:eyes:

Run, hide- it's coming closer.

Let's expand this to include EVERYTHING.

Why the hell not?

Let's make this about everyone's behavior, everywhere
at any time.

Let's not focus on heads of state attending a speech.

As a whole, the Latin American people I have met have
a much higher standard of manners and civility than I
have seen( on the whole) in the general population in SoCal.

Thanks so much for the condescending insult and ridicule.

Eh tu?

Hemisphere should have the same response to institutional discrimination as the vulnerable workers you know in SoCal? I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive Mr. Chavez for not putting up with bullshit, despite his very low class and brown background. Oh, and despite his success. :)

Contrary to what you might think,
I support a lot of what he has done for his
people and helping low income Americans
heat their homes with free oil.

Damn straight he's progressive!

I wish someone would stick to my comment,

Interrupting someone's speech

Why can't he speak afterwords?

Instead this flowered into,

--I don't like Chavez,

--I'm against free speech


did I miss anything?

Nice try pulling the race card out.

You have no idea who I am, in spite of my replying to your posts
many times and that is so obvious.

You're right on this count- this thread is getting beyond silly.

it's because I've called them on their racist bs.

And, this story is just one in a bunch we've to expect in the run up to the referendum vote on 12/2. So, if you didn't like this one, be prepared not to like many more.

Because I complimented the Hispanic people
I've met?!?

Now I've heard everything!

Sometimes I just wonder about posters to this forum and their grasp of the language they promote.

others racist when they've said nothing to indicate that they are. No, I take that back; I don't wonder.

Thank you for the vocabulary lesson.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Hispanic

as being Jesus Christ reincarnate?

You need to catch that progressive's evil act. Go ahead and post that link. She's got it coming! Don't let her get by with it a moment longer.

Can't wait to see it, already drooling in anticipation. Post that link by sfexpat2000 as she claims Chavez is Jesus Christ reincarnate.

lol

In my recorridos centroamericanos, "hispáno" refers both to people(s) for whom Spanish is the first language (as opposed to Portuguesa), as well as culture/fashions originating from said diaspora, e.g., "ahora con más sabor hispán(ic)o!". I understand "Hispanic" may no longer be desirable terminology en inglés (although I don't see how it could possibly be more culturally/geographically ambiguous or colonial sounding than "Latino/a" viz a viz the Roman Empire and its deceased tongue), but that has little to do with conflating the archaic definition with contemporary usage. Point-counterpoint:

While this particular defense is demasiado extraño (the inclusive term excludes the most generalities?), I don't think you can argue that "Hispanic", "Hispáno", or "Hispânico" refers exclusively to citizens of España (in this hemisphere, in our lifetimes.)

I am not "Hispanic" just as I am not "Spanish".

calling someone a racist is a serious charge. And the poster you're calling a racist, has said nothing to deserve it. How arrogant can you possibly be?

:pals:

NEVER call someone a racist unless you can back it UP.
Such invective has NO place on DU.

That is the pattern, whether you recognize it or not.

I stand by my original assertion: don't call someone a racist unless you got the facts to back it up.

to issue me orders. Go bully someone you can actually impress.

I'm not trying to impress you. I don't give a rat's ass if you're 'impressed.' I give a rat's ass that you called my friend a racist.

discuss race and class like a grown up instead of browbeating me for stating the obvious.

Have a good night.

They don't hide from them.

Neither do they initiate the ridiculing of a person with
another opinion.

They do not call someone a racist without any evidence to
substantiate it.

You have opinions. You are not stating the obvious.

I thought you were a very different person from the one
I see here.

Sadly, I was wrong.

And I was never browbeating you. Considering how offensive I find your remarks, I was being quite civil.

n/t

:hug:

:hug:

Nowadays, if you don't interrupt and make your point right away, they go on as if you agreed.

Chavez was right there, and naturally was not going to let the comment sit. That allows the opponent to make it a "truth."

decorum and dignity. He IS different from Gandhi or MLK because he's the leader of his country as opposed to a private citizen. What if Bush had done what Chavez did? People would be all over DU saying what a boor Bush is. WORLD LEADERS are expected to show some manner of respect and civility to one another.

what Chavez' outburst was in response to? I know that Zapatero was peaking... but what did he say that prompted Hugo to shout out? Something about Aznar?

:shrug:

Franco set him up as the heir to power. But rather than grab control of the State, he oversaw the transition to democracy. He is a great man and has the right to call Chavez on his misbehavior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain

:cry:

:popcorn:

CHAVEZ SPARKS CONTROVERSY AT CHILE’S IBERO-AMERICAN SUMMIT

Spanish King Tells Venezuelan Leader To “Shut Up”

(Nov. 12, 2007)

~snip~
The Venezuelan leader once again took center stage on Saturday, ending the 17th Iberian-American Summit with a fiery row between the leaders of Spain and Venezuela. The Prime Minister of Spain, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, was delivering a speech when Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez began to interrupt, raising the issue of Spanish collaboration in the effort to overthrow his government in April, 2002. Attempting to ignore the outbursts, Zapatero continued with his address, but after the fourth interjection the King of Spain Juan Carlos I lost his temper and exclaimed, “Why don’t you just shut up?”

Chilean President Michelle Bachelet, who moderated the meeting, was visibly annoyed by the continual antics displayed by Chávez, and asked for calm from the guests. “Please, we’re not having a discussion; all of you have already had time to make your positions clear.” Mid-way through a speech by Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega, the Spanish king stormed out of the conference early, clearly still enraged at the tone of a number of speeches, all quite critical of the Spanish government.
(snip)

http://www.tcgnews.com/santiagotimes/index.php?nav=story&story_id=15201&topic_id=1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Looks as if our corporate media neglected to tell us as much as we would want to know about what happened during that coup attempt.

Hearing this hint of a whole other country's involvement, along with the _Bush administration's, only makes one want to find out more!

The more complete picture emerges:

Last Updated: Sunday, 11 November 2007, 22:29 GMT

Chavez in Spanish king coup jibe

The spat between Spain's king and Venezuela's president took a new turn as Hugo Chavez demanded to know the monarch's knowledge of a 2002 coup.
On Saturday King Juan Carlos told Mr Chavez to "shut up" at a summit in Chile after the president said ex-Spain PM Jose Maria Aznar was a "fascist".

The king was widely applauded in the media back home.

On Sunday Mr Chavez said the king was "imprudent" and asked if he knew in advance of the brief coup against him.

As he left the Ibero-American Summit in Chile's capital, Santiago, Mr Chavez questioned whether Spain's ambassador had appeared with Venezuelan interim president Pedro Carmona during the two-day coup in 2002 with the monarch's blessing.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7089988.stm

until there is advantage in the demise of the other. Machiavellian.

And Chavez is despised by "progressives" who still dose up a bit on the old TV News. Frustrating.

Gotta give this one to the king...

Chavez is the elected voice of a people who have been disenfranchized by Royalty and Oligarchs for centuries. Chavez is from their class and their history. Chavez is ""negro e indio" - a "Black and Indian" man, dark as a cola nut, same as the landless and, until now, the hopeless. For the first time, Venezuela's 80% Black-Indian population elected a man with skin darker than the man in the Jaguar."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3861/is_200409/ai_n9441130


The people who elected Chavez in Venezuela, and his supporters in the emerging Social Democracies in South America will CHEER him for giving the finger to Royalty, the same as they cheered him for giving the finger to George Bush. I cheer him for this too.

Venezuela belongs to Venezuelans.
Chavez and his people really don't care what you think of him.
It is none of our business.